MD II: When to be concerned and what to do?

[SpicyPepper187]

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Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance for the possible redundancy of this post. I assume there are a bunch of neurotic threads along the same line but felt like I needed some clarification for my own peace of mind.

To give you some background, I'm a first time applicant this cycle and have applied to thirty MD schools. The applications were completed from July to first week of August. Fast forward to now and I have not heard back from any schools barring one school which put me on soft rejection. As the cycle seems to ramping up and I still have not heard anything, when is it appropriate to worry/plan to send update letters. And at what point should I consider gearing up for reapplication. From the little I know, it seems bulk of the interviews for early applicants come during September. When should I be concerned and consider Plan B? Please let me know if you need any more information for more accurate advice.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[candbgirl]

1. The standard feeling is if you don’t have an interview by Thanksgiving, start worrying and making plans for a reapplication. But understand you might get an interview anytime through Spring.
2. Lots of MED schools are just getting organized with full staffing etc.. So be patient.
3. ALWAYS have a Plan B and always consider yourself rejected until you have an A in hand.
4. You have provided us with no information. We don’t know if you are generally competitive stats wise, have the expected ECs or if you have a good list of schools you applied to. All of these things are very important.

 

[SpicyPepper187]

1. The standard feeling is if you don’t have an interview by Thanksgiving, start worrying and making plans for a reapplication. But understand you might get an interview anytime through Spring.
2. Lots of MED schools are just getting organized with full staffing etc.. So be patient.
3. ALWAYS have a Plan B and always consider yourself rejected until you have an A in hand.
4. You have provided us with no information. We don’t know if you are generally competitive stats wise, have the expected ECs or if you have a good list of schools you applied to. All of these things are very important.

Thank you for the advice. I’m currently working on improving my application in the meanwhile but I can’t help but get anxious in the down time. I was also wondering when it would be appropriate for update letters. As for my information, I have 3.99/518/ORM. I have average ECs and have more detailed information in my WAMC post from while back.

 

[candbgirl]

Thank you for the advice. I’m currently working on improving my application in the meanwhile but I can’t help but get anxious in the down time. I was also wondering when it would be appropriate for update letters. As for my information, I have 3.99/518/ORM. I have average ECs and have more detailed information in my WAMC post from while back.

Be careful of updates. Not every school accepts them so check that out. Only send an update letter if you have something significant to update about. There are lots of threads dealing with updates. So do a search and see what various ADCOM members think is significant enough to update about. And IMO, it’s really too soon to update. You just submitted your secondaries 6 weeks ago. Makes me wonder why the information wasn’t in your secondaries. You don’t say if you are still in school but if you are maybe at the end of the semester if you get all As and have a publication and some award. Another 50 hours of volunteering or starting a new job isn’t significant at this point.
Be patient. Schools will get to you. They don’t review in order received. So just try to relax. We all know that is hard but it’s a long cycle.

 

[Goro]

Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance for the possible redundancy of this post. I assume there are a bunch of neurotic threads along the same line but felt like I needed some clarification for my own peace of mind.

To give you some background, I'm a first time applicant this cycle and have applied to thirty MD schools. The applications were completed from July to first week of August. Fast forward to now and I have not heard back from any schools barring one school which put me on soft rejection. As the cycle seems to ramping up and I still have not heard anything, when is it appropriate to worry/plan to send update letters. And at what point should I consider gearing up for reapplication. From the little I know, it seems bulk of the interviews for early applicants come during September. When should I be concerned and consider Plan B? Please let me know if you need any more information for more accurate advice.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Patience is a virtue; the need for instant gratification is not.

Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out secondaries or IIs merely in chronological order.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

1.5-2 months after you’re complete at most places in my opinion.

Thanksgiving rule is bunk. Things have clearly become more competitive and therefore common “rules” also need to be revised. I see tons of people on SDN and Reddit with 7+ interviews already. And although I know it’s a bad sample, it seems as if this group represents the elite applicants that med schools want.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Patience is a virtue; the need for instant gratification is not.

Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out secondaries or IIs merely in chronological order.

Of course med schools don’t review in order application is received, but the order is literally based on priority. So I don’t necessarily see how not being reviewed early means anything less than not being high priority for getting an acceptance

 

[Goro]

Of course med schools don’t review in order application is received, but the order is literally based on priority. So I don’t necessarily see how not being reviewed early means anything less than not being high priority for getting an acceptance

With over 140 MD schools, not all have the same priorities. Being reviewed early just means being reviewed early. It doesn't mean an II comes out of it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Being reviewed early isn’t enough to receive an II in and of itself but not being reviewed early is more likely to be a bad sign.
I mean in November, aren’t most II slots for the waitlist? Some schools are already booking into January for interviews. Vandy, Umich, etc. all seem to have invited about a third to half of all people they will interview.

I’m not trying to discourage the OP and it likely is too early to be sweating yet over no interviews (especially if you applied later). But the overly naive Reddit view that “it’s still early bro!!” in mid October is highly delusional. In my opinion, active ways to improve ones app should be made in mid September if one only has a zero or a couple interviews because if start looking November then something might not be found until Jan/feb

 

[Goro]

Being reviewed early isn’t enough to receive an II in and of itself but not being reviewed early is more likely to be a bad sign.
I mean in November, aren’t most II slots for the waitlist? Some schools are already booking into January for interviews. Vandy, Umich, etc. all seem to have invited about a third to half of all people they will interview.

I’m not trying to discourage the OP and it likely is too early to be sweating yet over no interviews (especially if you applied later). But the overly naive Reddit view that “it’s still early bro!!” in mid October is highly delusional. In my opinion, active ways to improve ones app should be made in mid September if one only has a zero or a couple interviews because if start looking November then something might not be found until Jan/feb

If apps are complete by Labor Day, then one might get an II tomorrow, or in March. Even the most competitive schools keep a few seats open for late bloomers or diamonds in the rough. State schools even more so.

 

[LizzyM]

Many schools are not operating under FIFO (first in, first out) but are sorting and prioritizing according to their own scheme. They might be prioritizing URM, or applicants from specific rural counties in their state, or applicants with an MCAT above a certain threshold.

Be patient. It is very likely that you'll have at least two interviews by Thanksgiving. I realize that the waiting is nerve wracking so find something (a hobby, a streaming TV series or book series) with which to distract yourself. An applicant I advised who is now an M2 recommended Billions (on Showtime and also available through Prime Video) and it is quite distracting.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Many schools are not operating under FIFO (first in, first out) but are sorting and prioritizing according to their own scheme. They might be prioritizing URM, or applicants from specific rural counties in their state, or applicants with an MCAT above a certain threshold.

Be patient. It is very likely that you'll have at least two interviews by Thanksgiving. I realize that the waiting is nerve wracking so find something (a hobby, a streaming TV series or book series) with which to distract yourself. An applicant I advised who is now an M2 recommended Billions (on Showtime and also available through Prime Video) and it is quite distracting.

But aren’t these all factors that are likely to increase getting an acceptance after an interview in addition to getting an interview? In other words, these applicants are higher up on the staircase?

Ceteris Paribus, two interviews offered in July are better than two offered in December.

 

[EvilElmo]

Many schools are not operating under FIFO (first in, first out) but are sorting and prioritizing according to their own scheme. They might be prioritizing URM, or applicants from specific rural counties in their state, or applicants with an MCAT above a certain threshold.

Be patient. It is very likely that you'll have at least two interviews by Thanksgiving. I realize that the waiting is nerve wracking so find something (a hobby, a streaming TV series or book series) with which to distract yourself. An applicant I advised who is now an M2 recommended Billions (on Showtime and also available through Prime Video) and it is quite distracting.

I heard that Elmo's World is a decent series. Check it out!

 

[KnightDoc]

1.5-2 months after you’re complete at most places in my opinion.

Thanksgiving rule is bunk. Things have clearly become more competitive and therefore common “rules” also need to be revised. I see tons of people on SDN and Reddit with 7+ interviews already. And although I know it’s a bad sample, it seems as if this group represents the elite applicants that med schools want.

Why would you make such a needlessly pessimistic post, with nothing to back it up? An adcom who is intimately familiar with the process has repeatedly explained how it takes 4+ months to plow through all the applications, and that was before last year's surge.

Yes, schools stratify applications, and certain categories invariably go before others. So what? Everyone eventually gets reviewed, and good applicants are given IIs, whether they are reviewed in August or November, or even later. Everyone knows people who received IIs long after early September who eventually received As, with or without pit stops on WLs. There is no rule that suggests that people who are not reviewed in the first few groups cannot find themselves at the top of @LizzyM's staircase once they are reviewed.

"Better" applicants are reviewed first? Maybe, and the best among them are the ones you are referring to with 7+ IIs already. Good for them! They are destined to be in the tiny slice of applicants the top schools are going to be fighting over next spring. Here's a fun fact -- no matter how freaking awesome any of them are, each of them will only be able to occupy one seat at one school next summer.

Schools are still going to need to fill to vast majority of their 22,000+ seats, which is why people will continue receiving IIs from today through next spring. Maybe as a group they will be a little weaker than those who received IIs before, and maybe their II-->A conversion rate will be a little lower, but a LOT of them will be M1s next year, just like those who were reviewed earlier.

The Thanksgiving Rule is not bunk. Even if a handful of schools have already sent 1/3+ of their IIs, even that is less than half, and the vast majority of schools are nowhere near that yet. As impressive (or intimidating) as the number of IIs issued to date might appear to you, it pales in comparison to what will be going out between now and the end of November, with the majority of the action concentrated in the next 6 weeks or so. Plenty of people with nothing today will have several IIs by the end of October. It happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Even though Thanksgiving is a bit arbitrary, since IIs do continue to go out into the spring, it's as good a time as any to take stock, since by that time a lot of schools will be winding down the II portion of the festivities. But mid-September, when a tiny handful of schools have issued around 1/3 of their IIs, and most are nowhere near that? Only the most neurotic among us will stop around 10 weeks into a year-long process to compare themselves to the top several hundred in a pool of 60,000+, where 22,000+ will ultimately find success, and decide it is over if they don't already have several IIs.

 

[LunaOri]

But aren’t these all factors that are likely to increase getting an acceptance after an interview in addition to getting an interview? In other words, these applicants are higher up on the staircase?

Ceteris Paribus, two interviews offered in July are better than two offered in December.

The only II that matter are those that become an A. It doesn't matter whether that happens in August, or November, or February. II=II=II.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

@SpicyPepper187
Gear up now if possible. You may very well still get in but I would try avoiding waiting until Thanksgiving to start looking for ways to improve especially with covid and such. I’m not trying to make you nervous, but as @gonnif says, every applicant should expect that he or she will not be accepted until acceptance is in hand.

for example, I’ve already signed up to volunteer saturdays and sundays to enhance my clinical experiences. I’ve also started studying for the MCAT again because mine will expire at most schools. If you wait until you know you won’t get in, it will be much more difficult to make material improvements before next may.

 

[DoctorFate]

@SpicyPepper187
Gear up now if possible. You may very well still get in but I would try avoiding waiting until Thanksgiving to start looking for ways to improve especially with covid and such. I’m not trying to make you nervous, but as @gonnif says, every applicant should expect that he or she will not be accepted until acceptance is in hand.

for example, I’ve already signed up to volunteer saturdays and sundays to enhance my clinical experiences. I’ve also started studying for the MCAT again because mine will expire at most schools. If you wait until you know you won’t get in, it will be much more difficult to make material improvements before next may.

Oh, I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that you may not reapply a fourth time. Have you decided to after all?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Oh, I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that you may not reapply a fourth time. Have you decided to after all?

That was before getting some interviews. I think that time is really the most important thing for me. If I don’t get in this time but can add another year of distance from the red flag, perhaps some schools will be more willing to take a chance. I am also looking for more active ways that I can atone for past mistakes (ex. Service at organizations that provide support to individuals struggling to overcome drug addiction etc.).

 

[DoctorFate]

That was before getting some interviews. I think that time is really the most important thing for me. If I don’t get in this time but can add another year of distance from the red flag, perhaps some schools will be more willing to take a chance. I am also looking for more active ways that I can atone for past mistakes (ex. Service at organizations that provide support to individuals struggling to overcome drug addiction etc.).

Got it. Your dedication to entering the field impresses me, especially given you have a six figure (or around there I assume) job in finance/biotech already. Is your company a known name? Would many people recognize it?

 

[Talldoctor96]

Hey guys you know this is a thread and not a DM right?