MD/MBA (or DO/MBA) any chance at all?

[RennKin]

So, I've been told I have no chance in hell of getting into an MD school, but I'd like more opinions before I apply, as I *really* want to get into a joint degree program (MD/MBA). I apologize for the abrupt sentences but I feel it's better than a wall of text. Short and simple... errrr shorter lol

Background:
First person in my family born in the U.S. - son of refugees. Grew up in poverty. None of my parents went to university here. I have no family in the U.S. besides my parents which I used to be estranged from for personal reasons. Older brother died of overdose when I was a freshman in high school. When I was 19 I went on chemotherapy while (stupidly) not withdrawing from my freshman year undergrad classes. This means I got a 1.2 GPA my freshman year. Thankfully, I was a business major so my classes were not science classes, however, they did have quite a few math classes which hurt my science gpa...

Worked every summer while simultaneously taking summer school.
I will be turning 28 the year I potentially enter medical school, bit older than the average.

Academics:
Started undergrad career at unranked school. During my chemotherapy, I was confined to a wheelchair and eventually I finally got surgery to remove everything and retook all the classes from my freshman year. I made the dean's list every semester until I could transfer. Made it into a top 15 school. My dream school! Got a 3.89 GPA there, withdrew from an elective class my 3rd semester there which put me at 11 credit hours so I lost all my funds and would have to attend year at full price - couldn't afford it - transferred back to my original state school, graduated Summa Cum Laude.

What happened was that when speaking with the deans they told me that there would be no problems with me withdrawing because I planned to take a full course load the following semester. The dean was wrong. I lost all my financial aid, and that's why I had to transfer back. My friends even wrote letters to the school admin and the local rabbi tried to help raise funds too, but... well, I come from an impoverished background and there was just no way to make it work.

Went to the georgetown SMP a few years back. I was told that this would help me get into medical school. I was not told that this was for students that needed to "fix" their academics. Since I felt no pressure on me succeed, I only did mildly well. Above average, but meh. My graduate GPA sits at 3.58 right now.

Extracurriculars: taught myself piano, cello, writing a novel (for fun, not published), vice president of a professional fraternity in college, offered free STEM tutoring while in undergrad, ~80 hours volunteering in medical settings with children (chronically or terminally ill along with developmentally delayed children), few hundred hours of various non-medical volunteering, graduated high school as a part of the "300 club" (300 hours of community service before graduating), few hundred hours total shadowing neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, cardiologists, and pediatric surgeons. Been on international volunteer trips to places to help haitian refugees. Raised a few thousand dollars for a local homeless shelter. And I can't think of anything else off of the top of my head... *edit* I speak 5 languages, English is not my native language, and I served as a volunteer medical translator for Spanish speakers.

Work: Worked in customer service and as a secretary during undergrad summers and winters, worked as a clinic supervisor in an internal medicine clinic with over 15,000 annual budgeted visits while attending the Georgetown SMP. (Yes, I was absolutely insane for working while at the Georgetown SMP... especially at a supervisor level). Made for a fun time! I also worked as an ultrasound/stress/medical technician while I was the supervisor. Essentially I did everything lol. Worked for AmeriCorps afterward and currently still do.

Research: my name was not included in the papers since I graduated (undergrad) before they were published but I have 1.5 years working in a neuroscience research lab on alzheimers models in rats and novel immunoglobulin therapy as well as studying the effects of estrogen on dendritic branching and stroke recovery

Standardized tests:
Scored in the 99th percentile on the ACT
Scored 512 on the MCAT in 2015 (I had not taken genetics, biochem, or sociology - I taught myself all 3 subjects for the MCAT) so I'm hoping if I retake it I'll get higher... but honestly my lowest section was physics/chemistry which was 125... i got 131 on CARS which balanced it out for the overall MCAT score, but I could've gotten a solid 3-4 points higher if my physics and chemistry was on par with my other sections
770 on the GMAT (99th percentile)

Why I was told I will never get into an MD program:
My freshman year GPA of 1.2 brings my Summa Cum Laude GPA of 3.91 with grade forgiveness down to an undergraduate cGPA of 3.26, sGPA of 3.54. Graduate cGPA 3.58, sGPA 3.58 (all graduate courses obviously science courses)

So, right now I have a list of 48 schools that offer MD/MBA programs. I want to be a pediatric surgeon while still involved in activism and health policy management. Lofty goals, but honestly I've been debating between MPH/MHS/MBA or an MD forever and I just can't picture my life without clinical work and I can't picture my life without being involved in large scale policy as well.

I spoke with an admissions officer (from a school I will not name) who flat out said "We wouldn't even read your essay to find out why you had a low GPA. Your application would be discarded before we even got to that point. So, yea, you're screwed." Yes, they literally said "you're screwed" and told me to drop the dream of an MD/MBA and just get the MBA and focus on healthcare policy. No, it was not a top 20 school, but they were in the top 50. The only reason I was able to get a conversation with them was due to connections. I knew the doctor that mentored the admissions officer when they were younger.

I would 100% go to a DO school, but there is one worry... will they have the resources to help me reach my career goals? I've been told that specialties like pediatric surgery and neurosurgery are extremely difficult to get into from a DO school because you have to be preparing for them since like... year 1...

That and I've only found 3 DO/MBA programs. PCOM, OK state, and LMU. However, I have a friend at LMU and they very very strongly discourage me from going there. I have absolutely no problem going for a DO/MBA if it means I can be pediatric surgeon.

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[bluepeony]

What happened was that when speaking with the deans they told me that there would be no problems with me withdrawing because I planned to take a full course load the following semester. The dean was wrong. I lost all my financial aid, and that's why I had to transfer back. My friends even wrote letters to the school admin and the local rabbi tried to help raise funds too, but... well, I come from an impoverished background and there was just no way to make it work.

Went to the georgetown SMP a few years back. I was told that this would help me get into medical school. I was not told that this was for students that needed to "fix" their academics. Since I felt no pressure on me succeed, I only did mildly well. Above average, but meh. My graduate GPA sits at 3.58 right now.

Moving forward, you really need to do your own research instead of relying on what someone tells you.

 

[bluepeony]

Also what does getting the MBA have to do with public policy work??

Don't just get a degree just for the sake of adding a few extra letters after your name.

 

[Cornfed101]

You can still apply MD. I have 3 MD interviews so far and my stats are very similar to yours. Your trend is actually much better than mine, although your SMP doesn't blow me away. Why do you need an MBA at the same time, or at all? You can do that later or just pursue your career goals without the letters. An MBA is definitely not required for what you want to do.

 

[bluepeony]

And to be frank, you get the MBA for the connections. Which means that its probably a waste of money unless you do it at Wharton, HBS type schools.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

@Goro: sounds like a good tale of reinvention. OP might be well-served by an MCAT retake if he can get a 517 or better their next go-round.

 

[RennKin]

@bluepeony i thought an MBA (or MPH) would help/allow me to work in administrative capacities as well. Working with AmeriCorps has really made me want to have a role in administration as well and I was told that while doctors gain an incredible amount of real world experience on the ground floor, they often lack the business acumen and knowledge to contribute to policy. They can advocate for policy change but knowledge of accounting, strategy, economics, etc is necessary for administrative work.

And statistically, doctors are some of the worst financial managers of their own finances. (From what I’ve read). I don’t care about the letters, I care about the knowledge and how it can help me in my career.

I’ve been trying to do my own research but everyone tells me something different and without any friends in medicine or family that have gone to college here, or are even doctors, I feel clueless all the time. Everyone just keeps giving me different answers and I have no idea which answer is “correct”. A perfect example would be the mba!! I was told by many people it not only allows you to take on administrative roles in your career like leading a department or running your own clinic or branching out into policy, but that it also helps develop leadership skills and gives you financial knowledge you couldn’t gain as a doctor. And here people say it’s useless

It’s extremely hard doing everything 100% on your own. I am quite literally doing everything on my own :/. I’m willing to put in any amount of work that’s needed, it just seems like I’m always putting in work in the wrong way.

@Cornfed101 the average Georgetown SMP GPA of my year was like 3.3. My year did pretty bad. I know 3.58 isn’t super high but it’s fairly above the average??

edit- I just wanted to say thank you for the replies and advice! I 100% do not mean to be argumentative in tone, nor do I intend to sound like I am throwing myself a pity party. I’ve made mistakes in my career that still haunt me and I fully accept that. However, things are what they are and I’m just trying to look forward and not back at what I should have or could have done differently. I also appreciate the positivity saying all hope isn’t lost.

Thank you all and I look forward to further hearing more advice. Truly, thank you guys for responding.

 

[Goro]

@bluepeony i thought an MBA (or MPH) would help/allow me to work in administrative capacities as well. Working with AmeriCorps has really made me want to have a role in administration as well and I was told that while doctors gain an incredible amount of real world experience on the ground floor, they often lack the business acumen and knowledge to contribute to policy. They can advocate for policy change but knowledge of accounting, strategy, economics, etc is necessary for administrative work.

And statistically, doctors are some of the worst financial managers of their own finances. (From what I’ve read). I don’t care about the letters, I care about the knowledge and how it can help me in my career.

I’ve been trying to do my own research but everyone tells me something different and without any friends in medicine or family that have gone to college here, or are even doctors, I feel clueless all the time. Everyone just keeps giving me different answers and I have no idea which answer is “correct”. A perfect example would be the mba!! I was told by many people it not only allows you to take on administrative roles in your career like leading a department or running your own clinic or branching out into policy, but that it also helps develop leadership skills and gives you financial knowledge you couldn’t gain as a doctor. And here people say it’s useless

It’s extremely hard doing everything 100% on your own. I am quite literally doing everything on my own :/. I’m willing to put in any amount of work that’s needed, it just seems like I’m always putting in work in the wrong way.

@Cornfed101 the average Georgetown SMP GPA of my year was like 3.3. My year did pretty bad. I know 3.58 isn’t super high but it’s fairly above the average??

edit- I just wanted to say thank you for the replies and advice! I 100% do not mean to be argumentative in tone, nor do I intend to sound like I am throwing myself a pity party. I’ve made mistakes in my career that still haunt me and I fully accept that. However, things are what they are and I’m just trying to look forward and not back at what I should have or could have done differently. I also appreciate the positivity saying all hope isn’t lost.

Thank you all and I look forward to further hearing more advice. Truly, thank you guys for responding.

The SMP GPA is going to hurt. I have trouble with your thinking that you didn't have to take it seriously.

Over overall gGPA should have you shooting more for DO than MD, but you do have a compelling story and so I'd like to see your school list. You'll never be able to apply to 48 schools.

Note, I can only advise on getting into med school, not a combined program.

 

[RennKin]

The SMP GPA is going to hurt. I have trouble with your thinking that you didn't have to take it seriously.

Over overall gGPA should have you shooting more for DO than MD, but you do have a compelling story and so I'd like to see your school list. You'll never be able to apply to 48 schools.

Note, I can only advise on getting into med school, not a combined program.

Yea... my advisor told me the same thing. The SMP GPA is going to hurt me. I was told that a B was equivalent to the average score of a Georgetown medical student, and I never fell below a B in any course, so despite dealing with the things listed below I don’t think I did *that* bad. Especially while working as a clinical supervisor of an extremely busy IM clinic. I understand that these are just excuses though. I could’ve done better.

It isn’t that I didn’t think I had to take it seriously. I didn’t go out and party I didn’t ignore classes, I was one of the few that went to every lecture in person. I just didn’t feel the pressure to get a perfect GPA. I was also dealing with a *LOT* of life events. My dad broke his spine (this is what began to end my estrangement from my parents), I had a severe systemic bacterial infection which had me going in and out or urgent care over the course of a month, and right as second semester started I got a severe concussion that split open my head and left me hospitalized. My class and I took it in good humor though, I became bubble boy. Mostly because it seemed like I needed a bubble to protect myself lol.

The list of schools was simply a list that I found online of schools that offer the joint MD/MBA program, it wasn’t created by me. Many of the schools are way beyond my ability to get into like Yale and Penn and Harvard lol. I was told I could fairly easily get into the MBA programs of schools like Wharton (UPenn) but I know there’s no way I could ever get into their MD programs. Association of MD MBA Programs - MD/MBA Programs

I have had interviews at schools like VCU (Virginia commonwealth) and got waitlisted but never made it off the waitlist. This was 1.5 years ago.

I’m in a way glad I didn’t get into medical school earlier as I think my life was a bit of a mess and too hectic for me to truly dedicate myself to medical school, but my life is in a good place right now and I think the worst is behind me. Do you think there is any way that I can show that to adcoms? I just really don’t want to come off like I’m making a million and one excuses as to why my performance was fluctuating between great and subpar (for my standard).

Edit- on a semi random note, I’ve already written about 12 different versions of my personal statement, with the most recent 3 versions making multiple people tear up. Despite my casual writing here I am a very good writer and enjoy it a lot!

I also forgot to mention that I served as a volunteer medical translator since I speak Spanish. I speak a total of 5 languages and English is not my native language.

However since I am of middle eastern descent I am considered white, and not underrepresented even though I come from a family of refugees. I was told to apply as disadvantaged but not as underrepresented.

 

[Seihai]

To be frank, your SMP GPA of a 3.58 hurts you more than anything else. Your goal should have been to get a 4.0, and anything less implies that you might not fare as well in med school as schools would like. The average GPA of the year you went to your SMP is irrelevant. How medical students do in similar classes is irrelevant. Everything but your GPA relative to a 4.0 in an SMP is irrelevant. There aren't many other factors that med schools will bother to consider for SMPs.

Your goal should be to apply to medical school first and foremost. Many schools will allow you to seek admission to their business school after starting medical school, and many have formal pathways for doing just this.

You'll need to retake the MCAT - your current one is too old. To be generally competitive with your GPA + SMP GPA, you should aim for as high a score as possible. Assuming you get the same score +/- 2, I think you could apply for both DO and MD, but you'd have to apply very strategically (not worrying about the MBA at that point yet).

> I've been told that specialties like pediatric surgery and neurosurgery are extremely difficult to get into from a DO school because you have to be preparing for them since like... year 1...

How do career goals that need you to get an MBA also align with you needing to go into an ultra-competitive specialty? Yes, DO does make it harder to get into some residencies in general, but you'd have to be preparing well for some competitive specialties from early on regardless.

 

[RennKin]

To be frank, your SMP GPA of a 3.58 hurts you more than anything else. Your goal should have been to get a 4.0, and anything less implies that you might not fare as well in med school as schools would like. The average GPA of the year you went to your SMP is irrelevant.

Your goal should be to apply to medical school first and foremost. Many schools will allow you to seek admission to their business school after starting medical school, and many have formal pathways for doing just this.

You'll need to retake the MCAT - your current one is too old. To be generally competitive with your GPA + SMP GPA, you should aim for as high a score as possible. Assuming you get the same score +/- 2, I think you could apply for both DO and MD, but you'd have to apply very strategically (not worrying about the MBA at that point yet).

> I've been told that specialties like pediatric surgery and neurosurgery are extremely difficult to get into from a DO school because you have to be preparing for them since like... year 1...

How do career goals that need you to get an MBA also align with you needing to go into an ultra-competitive specialty? Yes, DO does make it harder to get into some residencies in general, but you'd have to be preparing well for some competitive specialties from early on regardless.

Yea, I know it’s too old. I’m about to start preparing to retake the MCAT. I’m hoping to get above a 515. As @BlackMathMajor said, I’d really like to get above a 517 and am fairly confident I could do it.

This may be a silly and ridiculous question, but do I have to report my graduate education? I’ve seen posts here with people saying go back to undergrad get a degree and pretend like your first undergrad career never happened and to not report it. However, I have applied through amcas before, so I don’t think I could simply erase my graduate education? Due to the fact I was working during my time in the program I wouldn’t have a mysterious gap with no activity??


In regards to the other part of your post of my mba career goals aligning with my md goals... Well, that’s actually one of my problems right now. Balancing the admin/MBA aspects of my education and career with the medical school education and medical career. It’s been very difficult for me to decide.

My decision to go into pediatric surgery comes from a very traumatic childhood... there are reasons my older brother turned to drugs and I was estranged from my parents. I didn’t have a childhood and it means more than anything to me that I’m able to give others the best childhood they can have.

 

[Goro]

Yea, I know it’s too old. I’m about to start preparing to retake the MCAT. I’m hoping to get above a 515. As @BlackMathMajor said, I’d really like to get above a 517 and am fairly confident I could do it.

This may be a silly and ridiculous question, but do I have to report my graduate education? I’ve seen posts here with people saying go back to undergrad get a degree and pretend like your first undergrad career never happened and to not report it. However, I have applied through amcas before, so I don’t think I could simply erase my graduate education? Due to the fact I was working during my time in the program I wouldn’t have a mysterious gap with no activity??


In regards to the other part of your post of my mba career goals aligning with my md goals... Well, that’s actually one of my problems right now. Balancing the admin/MBA aspects of my education and career with the medical school education and medical career. It’s been very difficult for me to decide.

My decision to go into pediatric surgery comes from a very traumatic childhood... there are reasons my older brother turned to drugs and I was estranged from my parents. I didn’t have a childhood and it means more than anything to me that I’m able to give others the best childhood they can have.

Yes, you have to submit transcripts of every school you attended. Med schools will verify and if you omit the SMP, it will be found out and would lead to you being rejected, or having any acceptance rescinded.

I have a bit of trouble believing that you felt that not getting close to a perfect GPA was OK for the Gtown program. The whole point of the program is to show med schools that you can handle med school, and that the you of now is not the you of then. People who successfully use the programs for reinvention typically have a 3.7+ GPA in them.

Also sorry to hear of your woes, but your trying to bulldoze your way through when you weren't at your best also raises some judgement issues.

 

[RennKin]

I have a bit of trouble believing that you felt that not getting close to a perfect GPA was OK for the Gtown program. The whole point of the program is to show med schools that you can handle med school, and that the you of now is not the you of then. People who successfully use the programs for reinvention typically have a 3.7+ GPA in them.

I wasn't thinking in terms of reinvention though, I didn't think I needed reinvention since my undergrad GPA ended on a high note. Upward trend from 1.2 GPA to a GPA above 3.9 every semester (except one) for the next 4 years.

Since the SMP was curved that a B was equal to the average medical student score I was thinking that majority A-'s isn't bad. It showed that I was beating the scores of the medical students at Georgetown. To me, that meant I was doing well. I mean, Georgetown is a pretty good medical school and being able to keep up + beat their med students on the exams made me feel like I wasn't doing bad. It wasn't until I found SDN that I saw I should never have gone to the SMP.

My logic for continuing the SMP was that dropping out would be looked at even worse than receiving lower grades.

Sigh. Guess I just won't become a doctor. Maybe it's for the best... it just hurts that I would have been fine if I didn't go to Georgetown. I put myself into a lot of debt for a useless degree which only hurt my chances of becoming a doctor. Nobody told me this stuff when I went to Georgetown. They said my grades were fine. They said I didn't need to focus on reinvention because of my undergrad career and I should focus on career development and getting more experience in clinical settings. This is what I mean by every person I speak to tells me something different. I should never have gone there.

 

[Goro]

I wasn't thinking in terms of reinvention though, I didn't think I needed reinvention since my undergrad GPA ended on a high note. Upward trend from 1.2 GPA to a GPA above 3.9 every semester (except one) for the next 4 years.

Since the SMP was curved that a B was equal to the average medical student score I was thinking that majority A-'s isn't bad. It showed that I was beating the scores of the medical students at Georgetown. To me, that meant I was doing well. I mean, Georgetown is a pretty good medical school and being able to keep up + beat their med students on the exams made me feel like I wasn't doing bad. It wasn't until I found SDN that I saw I should never have gone to the SMP.

My logic for continuing the SMP was that dropping out would be looked at even worse than receiving lower grades.

Sigh. Guess I just won't become a doctor. Maybe it's for the best... it just hurts that I would have been fine if I didn't go to Georgetown. I put myself into a lot of debt for a useless degree which only hurt my chances of becoming a doctor. Nobody told me this stuff when I went to Georgetown. They said my grades were fine. They said I didn't need to focus on reinvention because of my undergrad career and I should focus on career development and getting more experience in clinical settings. This is what I mean by every person I speak to tells me something different. I should never have gone there.

You're fine for many DO schools.

I'm still rather taken back that you didn't seem to get how high stakes SMPs are. In hindsight , better reserved into what you were getting into would have been better.

 

[RennKin]

@Goro You're right, I didn't realize how high the stakes were. But, that first sentence! Still fine for many DO schools I'll take that. That's a win in my book
Feel free to skip over the next portion if you want to. My questions are in bold at the end
Shame about the SMP, but meh. If I choose to pursue only an MBA/MPH/MHA and follow a career in health policy, activism, and management/consulting I'm confident my medical education from the SMP will come in handy. Every doctor I've worked for and with says my potential would be wasted if I was confined to solely being a clinician. They were actually the ones that pushed me to pursue a second master's in addition to the MD/DO, and my passion for activism is what drove me to join AmeriCorps. I found out after I joined that every VISTA that has worked for this specific program before me has actually gone on to medical school.

I think my problem is that I want to do too much, which is actually probably what drove me to go to Georgetown in the first place. Before the next cycle starts I have to really narrow down what I want to spend my career doing, because as Seihai said, I need to find goals that align with each other. It's a bit too much right now with the ultra-competitive specialty, me wanting to work in administration as well as health policy and activism, and not to mention the lifestyle of a pediatric surgeon wouldn't allow for much time outside of being a surgeon... I can't do everything and need to figure out what's best for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll keep all doors open and do my best on the MCAT. I'll aim for >517. And who knows, I was able to get a few MD interviews 2 cycles ago so maybe I can pull it off again. No harm in at least applying a second time to the ones that already interviewed and waitlisted me once. It would have been 2 application cycles since I was interviewed and I've done so much more career and self-building since then. Do you (or anyone else reading this) think it would be wise to reapply to the schools that interviewed me once already?

If I do get above a 517, would it change my circumstances for MD schools? I'm still 100% fine with DO schools and from what I gather, PCOM is an amazing place to be (I'm a PA resident). Not only have i heard a lot of great things about it as a medical school but it does have a joint degree program too (if I decide that's what I want)

 

[deleted859689]

AAMC GPA MCAT Grid
Few MD interviews with no A in the past? Maybe your personality is holding you back. See the above and compare GPA and MCAT to those matriculated.

 

[RennKin]

AAMC GPA MCAT Grid
Few MD interviews with no A in the past? Maybe your personality is holding you back. See the above and compare GPA and MCAT to those matriculated.

Mmmm, well based on that chart and going by my undergrad GPA which is heavily weighed down by AMCAS not doing grade forgiveness, I have less than a 40% chance of being accepted. If I go by my SMP GPA I have a 50% chance of being accepted. Should I be using my undergrad or graduate GPA for that?

That's a really handy chart though. I've never seen it. Thanks for posting that.

I was waitlisted twice :/ never rejected. Just was never good enough to make it off the waitlist. The interviews I had were MMI. I sincerely wish they weren't because I know if I sat down with someone and had a discussion with them I could showcase myself much better than just answering 7 questions to random people. I know MMI reduces bias and supposedly helps a lot of students, but.... idk, it wasn't bad and I actually enjoyed it overall, I just think that it doesn't allow me to bring forth my personality.

I say this with full introspection, my personality far outweighs any achievements I have. To the point where residents have thanked me for stepping in with difficult patients because they froze and couldn't handle the situation. I've been told by bosses, physicians, and fellow volunteers that I'm far too critical on myself and don't understand how mature and far ahead of most people my age I am... I never compare myself to others though, so I genuinely don't know if they're just being nice and keeping my hopes up or being honest. i don't think I'm anything special at all


I've been going through all the FAQ's and threads on SDN. I've found that the structure of my primary was... a bit off. I'd say I was fairly lucky to even get an interview based on how I applied. Another thing, when I had the interviews I was still part of the SMP (like 2 months in) and had barely any grades. I think that may have contributed to me being waitlisted. Due to my past, I think they wanted to make sure that I could actually complete the program.

 

[bluepeony]

Mmmm, well based on that chart and going by my undergrad GPA which is heavily weighed down by AMCAS not doing grade forgiveness, I have less than a 40% chance of being accepted. If I go by my SMP GPA I have a 50% chance of being accepted. Should I be using my undergrad or graduate GPA for that?

That's a really handy chart though. I've never seen it. Thanks for posting that.

I was waitlisted twice :/ never rejected. Just was never good enough to make it off the waitlist. The interviews I had were MMI. I sincerely wish they weren't because I know if I sat down with someone and had a discussion with them I could showcase myself much better than just answering 7 questions to random people. I know MMI reduces bias and supposedly helps a lot of students, but.... idk, it wasn't bad and I actually enjoyed it overall, I just think that it doesn't allow me to bring forth my personality.

I say this with full introspection, my personality far outweighs any achievements I have. To the point where residents have thanked me for stepping in with difficult patients because they froze and couldn't handle the situation. I've been told by bosses, physicians, and fellow volunteers that I'm far too critical on myself and don't understand how mature and far ahead of most people my age I am... I never compare myself to others though, so I genuinely don't know if they're just being nice and keeping my hopes up or being honest. i don't think I'm anything special at all


I've been going through all the FAQ's and threads on SDN. I've found that the structure of my primary was... a bit off. I'd say I was fairly lucky to even get an interview based on how I applied. Another thing, when I had the interviews I was still part of the SMP (like 2 months in) and had barely any grades. I think that may have contributed to me being waitlisted. Due to my past, I think they wanted to make sure that I could actually complete the program.

How was your primary app off?

 

[Cornfed101]

Should I be using my undergrad or graduate GPA for that?

The data from that chart is not as reliable when you do a post-bacc/SMP because trends matter. Having a solid SMP improves your chances over someone with the same uGPA but no upward trend.

 

[RennKin]

How was your primary app off?

I filled out the "disadvantaged" area incorrectly. I talked about my disadvantages and how they impacted my healthcare, my traumatic experiences, and college career in regard to transferring (loss of financial aid). I didn't really focus on how my disadvantages affected me academically. I more wrote about being part of an underserved community. I'm seeing here, on SDN, that I should've made it about how my disadvantages affected my collegiate career regarding academics and resources?

I think I also structured my work + activities wrong. I ended up with 13, and that wasn't a full list. Based off what I see here I should've condensed a few into one area?? What I wrote in the areas was fine in my opinion, I just didn't entirely organize it the same way people on SDN are saying to organize it

The question marks are because I'm still uncertain if this information is correct

When I was doing my research on applying I was researching specific schools, using MSAR, reading blogs, reading the schools' websites, etc. I never looked on SDN... I reached out to a cardiologist I worked for and she directed me to someone that offered to help me with the application for an extremely hefty fee which I could not afford.

 

[Cornfed101]

I filled out the "disadvantaged" area incorrectly. I talked about my disadvantages and how they impacted my healthcare, my traumatic experiences, and college career in regard to transferring (loss of financial aid). I didn't really focus on how my disadvantages affected me academically. I more wrote about being part of an underserved community. I'm seeing here, on SDN, that I should've made it about how my disadvantages affected my collegiate career regarding academics and resources?

I think I also structured my work + activities wrong. I ended up with 13, and that wasn't a full list. Based off what I see here I should've condensed a few into one area?? What I wrote in the areas was fine in my opinion, I just didn't entirely organize it the same way people on SDN are saying to organize it

The question marks are because I'm still uncertain if this information is correct

When I was doing my research on applying I was researching specific schools, using MSAR, reading blogs, reading the schools' websites, etc. I never looked on SDN... I reached out to a cardiologist I worked for and she directed me to someone that offered to help me with the application for an extremely hefty fee which I could not afford.

There is no "perfect" way to fill out the application. I combined stuff on my work/activities section, but not everyone does that and some people even give the advice to not combine stuff and only include the most meaningful things. I had 14 on my list. The general idea is that you need to convey your story, how you've grown, what you've experienced, etc.. There is no one right way to do this.

 

[RennKin]

Thank you all for the advice

Sorry for the delayed thanks, been busy the past few days.

I'll keep y'all update

 

[Doctoscope]

Keep in mind that pediatric surgery is probably one of the most difficult surgical “fields” to get into. The general advice here seems to be that if you’re trying to be ONE TYPE of doctor, then medicine may not be for you.


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