MD/MBA: What is the benefit?

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What is the benefit or purpose in getting both degrees?

I have pondered the option, but I need to understand why this would or would not be a beneficial thing.

What are some career paths/options for dual degree holders?

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I would ask why not if you have the chance. Look at it this way, if you want to stay clinical, the MBA will help you make your practice more profitable. If you want a carreer change, an MD/MBA will open all types of doors: hospital administration, medical director for insurance companies, etc.

For me, I am doing both. I work part time at my clinic AND work part time for an insurance company. It's all about giving yourself as many options as possible. Oh, and yes, the pay is always greater for an MD/MBA as a whole.
 
FamilyMD said:
I would ask why not if you have the chance. Look at it this way, if you want to stay clinical, the MBA will help you make your practice more profitable.
... Oh, and yes, the pay is always greater for an MD/MBA as a whole.

Disagree with both these points. An MBA is not a great way to learn how to make a medical practice profitable. You use the MBA to hone EXISTING business skills, not originate them. As such, most business schools require prior work experience (waived for dual degree programs but perhaps shouldn't be). If you want to learn how to run a business you are better off reading a good book and hiring an accountant. Most people in graduate business programs will be those already in an industry and seeking to use graudate experience to secure a promotion -- they are not there for "ground up" or "how-to" education. (For instance in finance, your classmates will be largely of the analyst wanting to be investment banker or investment banker wanting to be managing director mold -- not folks who are there to learn how to smartly run a business). This is because the MBA is not a professional degree, and so unlike medicine, law, nursing, the goal is not to teach you how to do any particular career or run a particular type of business.
And no, the pay for an MD/MBA is not always going to be greater. There will always be jobs one could get with either one of those degrees that are greater than administrative or consulting type jobs one usually gets with the combo.
Bottom line is that if you don't have a concrete reason you think you need the MD/MBA, then you probably won't have any use for it. If, however, you want to go into hospital administration, health consulting, or some other area where those two credentials might be useful, that's different. But no, to just run your medical practice more efficiently, an MBA makes no sense. Buy and read some good books, and hire the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers), and you will be fine.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Disagree with both these points. An MBA is not a great way to learn how to make a medical practice profitable. You use the MBA to hone EXISTING business skills, not originate them. As such, most business schools require prior work experience (waived for dual degree programs but perhaps shouldn't be). If you want to learn how to run a business you are better off reading a good book and hiring an accountant. Most people in graduate business programs will be those already in an industry and seeking to use graudate experience to secure a promotion -- they are not there for "ground up" or "how-to" education. (For instance in finance, your classmates will be largely of the analyst wanting to be investment banker or investment banker wanting to be managing director mold -- not folks who are there to learn how to smartly run a business). This is because the MBA is not a professional degree, and so unlike medicine, law, nursing, the goal is not to teach you how to do any particular career or run a particular type of business.
And no, the pay for an MD/MBA is not always going to be greater. There will always be jobs one could get with either one of those degrees that are greater than administrative or consulting type jobs one usually gets with the combo.
Bottom line is that if you don't have a concrete reason you think you need the MD/MBA, then you probably won't have any use for it. If, however, you want to go into hospital administration, health consulting, or some other area where those two credentials might be useful, that's different. But no, to just run your medical practice more efficiently, an MBA makes no sense. Buy and read some good books, and hire the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers), and you will be fine.


I strongly disagree with this post. Do you have an MBA? You don't need prior work experience to learn a lot from an MBA program. MBA programs have career changers who do just fine. I know a couple former teachers who got MBAs and transitioned to business jobs. Getting the MBA forces you to spend time learning about business, thinking about business, and talking to other people about business. Certainly having prior work experience in business will help you get the most out of it, but it could still be very valuable.

You probably won't get the option of higher salary jobs because as a doctor you have such high paying jobs available to you already. But it will broaden your options and help you get non-traditional jobs.

Edit: And again, yes, in theory you could learn about business on your own from books. But in practice you probably won't do that. Maybe you'll read one book. The MBA will force you to spend time studying business.
 
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forget all this and become a hedge fund manager - a couple of them had 10 figure incomes last year, and the average for the top 25 was 9 figures :laugh:
 
etf said:
forget all this and become a hedge fund manager - a couple of them had 10 figure incomes last year, and the average for the top 25 was 9 figures :laugh:

Yeah, it's a good gig if you can get it. Becoming a top hedge fund manager ain't a piece of cake though.
 
I've posted this before; just follow the "Health Care Value Chain" and you can find many positions that would benefit from the diverse training of an MD/MBA:

- Health Care Suppliers (i.e., pharma, biotech, med device)
- Health Care Payers (private, public)
- Health Care Providers (Provider Management, sometimes combined with clinical practice)
- Health Care Finance (VC, Hedge Funds, I-Banking, etc)
- Health Care Consulting (Management Consulting, Specialty Consulting)

Of course there are lots of other things you can do - entrepreneurship, media, education, author, etc, but the most common jobs and opportunities are in the broad categories listed above.


In general, the two key things an MBA will provide (especially from a "top" school) are 1. interviews/opportunities to be heard - people will take your calls, meet you, etc. more readily and 2. business skills to succeed once you are on the job.

So it helps you both get the job and excel in that job. However, at the end of the day you have to perform, and the degree alone will only open so many doors before you have to develop a track record of achievement to back it up.

By the way, I agree with Law2Doc that the value of the MBA experience is definitely enhanced with the more business experience you bring with you to school (career changing does happen, but the degree is really intended to allow people to get to the next level of management, where "soft" skills and higher-level strategy are essential).
 
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Law2Doc said:
Disagree with both these points. An MBA is not a great way to learn how to make a medical practice profitable. You use the MBA to hone EXISTING business skills, not originate them. As such, most business schools require prior work experience (waived for dual degree programs but perhaps shouldn't be). If you want to learn how to run a business you are better off reading a good book and hiring an accountant. Most people in graduate business programs will be those already in an industry and seeking to use graudate experience to secure a promotion -- they are not there for "ground up" or "how-to" education. (For instance in finance, your classmates will be largely of the analyst wanting to be investment banker or investment banker wanting to be managing director mold -- not folks who are there to learn how to smartly run a business). This is because the MBA is not a professional degree, and so unlike medicine, law, nursing, the goal is not to teach you how to do any particular career or run a particular type of business.
And no, the pay for an MD/MBA is not always going to be greater. There will always be jobs one could get with either one of those degrees that are greater than administrative or consulting type jobs one usually gets with the combo.
Bottom line is that if you don't have a concrete reason you think you need the MD/MBA, then you probably won't have any use for it. If, however, you want to go into hospital administration, health consulting, or some other area where those two credentials might be useful, that's different. But no, to just run your medical practice more efficiently, an MBA makes no sense. Buy and read some good books, and hire the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers), and you will be fine.
\

Funny how a non MD/MBA is going to tell an MD/MBA he disagrees my posting when I live this every day. An MBA definitely helps your practice profitability as you learn marketing, margins, break-evens, leadership skills. As far as higher pay, you are an idiot if you do not think the average MD/MBA in ins. co. or hospital admin is not making more than the average PCP. I speak as BOTH a clinician and an insurance medical director.
 
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FamilyMD said:
An MBA definitely helps your practice profitability as you learn marketing, margins, break-evens, leadership skills.

Most of these things are better enhanced, rather than originated, in business school. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion.
 
Law2Doc said:
Most of these things are better enhanced, rather than originated, in business school. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion.
word.
 
Law2Doc said:
Most of these things are better enhanced, rather than originated, in business school. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion.
It is pointless to argue an issue with someone who hasn't even experienced it. You telling me what it's like to be an MD/MBA is to me is like me telling 50 cents what it's like to be a rapper....point being how the heck would I know, therefore I would be quiet, advice you might want to heed.
 
FamilyMD said:
It is pointless to argue an issue with someone who hasn't even experienced it. You telling me what it's like to be an MD/MBA is to me is like me telling 50 cents what it's like to be a rapper....point being how the heck would I know, therefore I would be quiet, advice you might want to heed.

Given that I have never given my own credentials or background (and don't plan to), you are making some gross assumptions as to who's advice is better grounded. Cheers. :rolleyes:
 
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Law2Doc said:
Given that I have never given my own credentials or background (and don't plan to), you are making some gross assumptions as to who's advice is better grounded. Cheers. :rolleyes:
don miguel ruiz with his "four agreements"
-be impeccable with your word
-always do your best
-don't take things personally
and...
-never make assumptions
 
to answer the original question...what's the benefit? women...lots of women. some of them hot too
 
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Ceez said:
to answer the original question...what's the benefit? women...lots of women. some of them hot too
I gotta admit, the chick factor certainly brings its incentives. MD/MBA should knock them off their feet!
 
Yeah I'm not familiar with that at all, I think it's huge in the Midwest/Great Plains. I saw Cars and couldn't really relate to all the hype (surrounding the racing) but I believe it does go on. Besides, I've always thought car racing is a tremendous waste of energy. Hard to justify when there are ppl around the world still reading using sunlight or candles while performance cars here run hundreds of laps around tracks
 
I enjoy racing, watching is ok though. I only really watch F1 and most of the time racing ends up being an excuse to drink in excess, pretty much the same as any sport. I agree, sports dont make alot of sense when theres people who are dirt poor.
Most of the people I have met regarding racing seem to be all over. I actually think its much more popular out west than here in the midwest. The weather permits year-round activity and there seems to be more tracks.

Back on topic....Most of the MBA's I meet who are good, were talented business people prior to their degree. I'm sure it is similar to any degree...you get what you want out of it. I am not sure if I will ever pursue an MBA, but at the minimum you could have some fun in business school.
 
For one thing, you will make contacts in MBA school that could not be made in med school for sure. Maybe even team up with md/mba classmates, who knows
 
Shredder said:
Yeah I'm not familiar with that at all, I think it's huge in the Midwest/Great Plains. I saw Cars and couldn't really relate to all the hype (surrounding the racing) but I believe it does go on. Besides, I've always thought car racing is a tremendous waste of energy. Hard to justify when there are ppl around the world still reading using sunlight or candles while performance cars here run hundreds of laps around tracks
Auto Racing? Horse Racing is huge here. Lots of old money.
 
Ceez said:
to answer the original question...what's the benefit? women...lots of women. some of them hot too

Well at any rate, a propensity for status recognition through the over zealous pursuit of higher degrees will certainly tell women something about the size of your penis. :thumbup:
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Auto Racing? Horse Racing is huge here. Lots of old money.
Auto. Ha, auto is definitely not where high society hangs out
 
degree overload. After a certain amount of school it's about time ppl start pulling in dollars. The fewer degrees needed to hit it big, the better. md, mba, phd would take like 8 years

prolly would turn off the chicks too since they may suspect one is substituting degrees for real success. I have found some MD MBA PhDs on google though, ack
 
Shredder said:
degree overload. After a certain amount of school it's about time ppl start pulling in dollars. The fewer degrees needed to hit it big, the better. md, mba, phd would take like 8 years

prolly would turn off the chicks too since they may suspect one is substituting degrees for real success. I have found some MD MBA PhDs on google though, ack
I'm guessing the MBA would be the last degree obtained in that combo.
 
etf said:
MD, MBA, PhD
that's a winning combination!

nope. The PhD is "nerd alert" for hot chicks. Go with the MD/MBA. I've had nothing but success with this one.
 
Most of the girls I have met dont even kno what MD/MBA is...and even if they do kno, they are more like "oh thats cool"
 
Ceez said:
nope. The PhD is "nerd alert" for hot chicks. Go with the MD/MBA. I've had nothing but success with this one.
Yeah I was thinking same; you have to be careful talking to PhD's or aspiring ones bc there is a chance they will go on and on about their research as if it's the most absorbing topic of conversation in the world. One look at most profs' wives gives enough info about the chick value of PhD compared to business hotshots. Often they end up just marrying other PhD's. As for casual dating, who knows if they ever do it. I know an MD/PhD classmate who got engaged at 22 or 23; not my cup of tea

Most people wouldn't know what an MD/MBA is, but they should know what the two are individually. Otherwise one wonders if they're even worth talking to. Then again there is no misunderstanding expensive cars, watches and clothing.
 
ASDIC said:
Most of the girls I have met dont even kno what MD/MBA is...and even if they do kno, they are more like "oh thats cool"


that's too bad. i'm beating off women left and right. wish i could help you.
 
eh, youre doing what left and right
 
Shredder said:
eh, youre doing what left and right


:laugh: What kind of women is he dealing with?
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
:laugh: What kind of women is he dealing with?
:smuggrin: :smuggrin: surprise surprise! Oh man great word choice. What will ppl think of MD/MBAs!
 
Law2Doc said:
Disagree with both these points. An MBA is not a great way to learn how to make a medical practice profitable. You use the MBA to hone EXISTING business skills, not originate them. As such, most business schools require prior work experience (waived for dual degree programs but perhaps shouldn't be). If you want to learn how to run a business you are better off reading a good book and hiring an accountant. Most people in graduate business programs will be those already in an industry and seeking to use graudate experience to secure a promotion -- they are not there for "ground up" or "how-to" education. (For instance in finance, your classmates will be largely of the analyst wanting to be investment banker or investment banker wanting to be managing director mold -- not folks who are there to learn how to smartly run a business). This is because the MBA is not a professional degree, and so unlike medicine, law, nursing, the goal is not to teach you how to do any particular career or run a particular type of business.
And no, the pay for an MD/MBA is not always going to be greater. There will always be jobs one could get with either one of those degrees that are greater than administrative or consulting type jobs one usually gets with the combo.
Bottom line is that if you don't have a concrete reason you think you need the MD/MBA, then you probably won't have any use for it. If, however, you want to go into hospital administration, health consulting, or some other area where those two credentials might be useful, that's different. But no, to just run your medical practice more efficiently, an MBA makes no sense. Buy and read some good books, and hire the appropriate ancillary professionals (accountants, lawyers), and you will be fine.



Thanks for shedding a different perpective. Do you have any recommendations on good books?
 
SGMD1 said:
Very interesting info bluejay...which leads me to a few more questions. What sorts of things does someone do in a field like health care consulting? And how does an MD degree play a role in something like hedge fund management, for example?

For consulting, there are generally two routes an MD/MBA can take:
1) Management Consulting (i.e., McKinsey, Bain, BCG, others)
2) Boutique Consulting (i.e., Cambridge Pharma, many others)

When working for a Management Consulting firm, you will likely be working on a healthcare-related case, but not always. Healthcare clients like MD/MBA's because they "talk the talk" and also have business skills/understanding. The Management Consulting firms will give you a more broad business experience and a more recognizable name on your resume, but the Boutique shops tend to be smaller, with more opportunity to interact with senior-level leaders, and may play more to your clinical strengths. There are more pros and cons, but these are some of the big ones.

In terms of "what one does" for a healthcare client, it can vary tremendously, including marketing, efficiency, production, brand strategy, pipeline strategy, M&A, licensing, corporate strategy, legislative response and strategy, and many more. For example, an aging brand at a pharma company may be looking to maximize value toward the end of the lifecycle and they turn to a consultant to do a competitive analysis and make recommendations for increasing revenue (i.e., reduce manufacturing costs, launch a new marketing campaign, seek alternative indications/uses/patient populations, change the pricing strategy, license the product to another company, and on and on). Another example may be a state hiring a consulting firm to help manage their Medicaid program; many states are in crisis mode with Medicaid and thus, have enlisted help to keep the system running.

In regard to hedge funds, I have less experience here, but the activity of an MD/MBA (or an MD without an MBA) would be to serve as an "expert" in one or more scientific areas. You would be expected to know a particular field very well (who are the players, what products are in the pipeline, etc), and you would be expected to influence or make investing decisions based on this knowledge. The understanding is that the MD background gives you an inherent advantage over non-MDs when it comes to researching healthcare companies and their products, thus there is added value.
 
BiOGoly said:
Well at any rate, a propensity for status recognition through the over zealous pursuit of higher degrees will certainly tell women something about the size of your penis. :thumbup:

hahah :laugh:

you mean we are all not trying to compensate for something as it is with our med school pursuits?
 
People need to do the math before they fall in love with acronyms and degrees. A medical education will most likely set you back $200,000. An MBA will set you back another $100,000, or most likely more. Don't forget about the time committment, whereby you will be in school for a minimum of five years, and that's not counting residency.

Is it worth the trouble? I don't think so. If you really want to learn about business administration take an accounting class at your local community college. If you want to learn about all things financial read the Wall Street Journal religiously and trust me you will know more than any business school could ever teach you.
 
I'm currently in residency and was considering taking MBA classes during the evening, for the sole purpose of expanding potentially what I might do eventually. I really haven't given it much thought and clicked on this post to get a general idea.

I do love the clinical aspect of medicine (well, laboratorial) and as well as the administrative aspect. I'm not much of a business minded individual though.


Fortunately, I'm in one of those residencies that don't require extensive hours. I'll have to keep researching it, and figure out if it is worth it. Especially since I'm already in debt and soon to be 31.
 
Take a listen to this podcast episode from Doctor Money Matters about MBA for physicians. Lots of good information before you decide to pursue it.

Physician MBA what you need to know

Lots of other good episodes for docs as well.
 
Would it help with any interpersonal connections and possibly improving communication between your peers?
 
Would it help with any interpersonal connections and possibly improving communication between your peers?

An MBA Degree in itself won't make you a business professional anymore than having an MD Degree right after medical school.
You pursue the MBA / MD Degrees for knowledge and then you practice what you learned. Unlike the MD Degree, there is no Residency as such for MBA Graduates. However, pursuing an MBA after having had business and/or corporate experience is very savvy since your knowledge will be built on your experience. An MD student can not say that

An MBA Degree also involves a great deal of writing papers, presentations in front of peers, and running mock companies in teams with measurable results. Thus entering an MBA Program will in fact improve your communication ability but it will not enhance them amongst your peers. They won't know how to engage you, you will be light years ahead of them and essentially you'll be the leader since most physicians know next to nothing about business.
 
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Would MD/MBA programs be useful if someone had the desire to own a surgery center in their career or say own real estate (as an investment)? Some sort of thing that is more business than medicine. Just curious. Or is it mainly for those who just want to be able to put down they have it if they want to apply to be in charge of a hospital or something like that? I've noticed many people often say they aren't worth getting so just trying to learn more about them!

Thanks!
 
Would MD/MBA programs be useful if someone had the desire to own a surgery center in their career or say own real estate (as an investment)?

Thanks!

not helpful for surgery center, and probably not helpful for real estate (possibly helpful if you own more than 10 million worth)
 
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I've posted this before; just follow the "Health Care Value Chain" and you can find many positions that would benefit from the diverse training of an MD/MBA:

- Health Care Suppliers (i.e., pharma, biotech, med device)
- Health Care Payers (private, public)
- Health Care Providers (Provider Management, sometimes combined with clinical practice)
- Health Care Finance (VC, Hedge Funds, I-Banking, etc)
- Health Care Consulting (Management Consulting, Specialty Consulting)

Of course there are lots of other things you can do - entrepreneurship, media, education, author, etc, but the most common jobs and opportunities are in the broad categories listed above.


In general, the two key things an MBA will provide (especially from a "top" school) are 1. interviews/opportunities to be heard - people will take your calls, meet you, etc. more readily and 2. business skills to succeed once you are on the job.

So it helps you both get the job and excel in that job. However, at the end of the day you have to perform, and the degree alone will only open so many doors before you have to develop a track record of achievement to back it up.

By the way, I agree with Law2Doc that the value of the MBA experience is definitely enhanced with the more business experience you bring with you to school (career changing does happen, but the degree is really intended to allow people to get to the next level of management, where "soft" skills and higher-level strategy are essential).

Hey, any books or resources you recommend for someone interested in pursuing an MD/MBA? You seem to know more than the average person on here by the way you broke down the "Health Care Value Chain." Thanks!
 
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Would MD/MBA programs be useful if someone had the desire to own a surgery center in their career or say own real estate (as an investment)? Some sort of thing that is more business than medicine. Just curious. Or is it mainly for those who just want to be able to put down they have it if they want to apply to be in charge of a hospital or something like that? I've noticed many people often say they aren't worth getting so just trying to learn more about them!

Thanks!

An MBA is oriented more toward organizational management, and in particular large organizations. I wouldn’t say that it would be completely useless, but the question is always one of costs vs. benefits, and I’m not sure that spending 3 years and who knows how much in tuition for knowledge that may not be all that applicable to you would be useful.

After all, there are plenty of people who do exactly what you’re talking about - and do it well - with very little to no formal business education.
 
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