MD/MSc at SGU...

[clarkalim]

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I want to be a physician and also do a small amount of clinical research on the side. Based on what I know about myself, I've decided that an MD/MS is the best way for me to go (as opposed to straight MD or MD-PhD). Immunology is what I'd like to get the MS in. I can't seem to find the MD-MS in Immunology anywhere in the U.S.

I'm from California, born and raised, a U.S. resident. Is it a bad idea for me to consider going to a medical school outside of the U.S. since I also want to do clinical research in the U.S. eventually?

I intend to complete my residency and fellowship in the United States.

But...my friend, whose mother is from Grenada, told me about SGU yesterday. I looked it up on a whim and was astounded. I found that this school is everything I want in a medical school: MS degree offerings, MD curriculum, location, diversity, weather, and cultural experience. All perfect, from what I can see, but of course I'd need to visit.

I'm tempted to make this my first choice but I just don't know how an MD/MS from SGU will be seen in the eyes of residency/fellowship adcoms.

I'm taking the MCAT soon and will be applying to medical school within the next two years. So, I'm exploring my options now. My gpa is currently a 3.51 and my science gpa a 3.27 (I intend to bring it up--I have to repeat a math course that I didn't do well in during freshman year, but that I'll do fine in now).

I'm going to apply to MD-only schools, I'm not interested in DO schools much. So...say if I got into some off-name medical school in the U.S...and then SGU. Which one should I choose? Is the U.S. school always the better option for me, especially since I'm interested in doing clinical research and will need grants one day?

Am I screwing myself up by even considering a Caribbean school?

I'd really like to go to school at SGU.

Help me out! I need advice. Is this the right thing to do? Thanks so much.

 

[BarmyArmy]

this thread will help.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813819

 

[clarkalim]

this thread will help.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813819

Thanks, I'm going to check it out. I didn't see this thread when I used the search function.

 

[clarkalim]

this thread will help.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813819

It was a great thread, great resource. But it still doesn't answer my question regarding the clinical research aspect of things! Anyone have any other input? Thanks!!

 

[Gavanshir]

If you end up getting into a US MD school, then you should choose that over SGU. It will make things easier for you if you want to get summer grants for clinical research as those are open to only US medical students. Having said that you will be able to do clinical research from SGU too, you just might have to do your own leg work to find a hospital/lab. I'm at SGU and will be doing clinical research this summer. SGU also has a new Clinical Research program for the top 10% of students: you do research on the island in the first 2 years and at affiliated hospitals during years 3 and 4. Having said that, almost all US medschools provide the same opportunity as well.

If it was between SGU & DO then it would be a tougher decision but because of the way things are set up right now, you should definitely try to get into a US MD school.

 

[CrunchBox11]

Hi Clarkalim,

While I'm not someone who replies to posts too often, I felt obliged to do so after reading what some of the previous individuals had to say about my Caribbean-based education.

As a soon-to-be graduate of the medical school at St. George's University (Class of 2011), I can tell you that SGU was by no means a "last option" for me - in fact, I looked at it as the best option after being wait-listed at 3 US allopathic schools. Not only did the school provide me with the foundation in the Basic Sciences that I needed in order to perform well on my USMLEs, but it's strong hospital affiliations only assured me that my clinical education would be on par with many of my fellow US medical students.

As I mentioned, I will be graduating this June and was fortunate enough to not only match, but match into my number 2 ranked program for Neurology in a very well respected hospital in New York. In addition, I was offered pre-match positions (an option for IMGs to sign outside of the match) for both my preliminary year of Internal Medicine as well for for Neurology. The reason I'm telling you this is because, contrary to what 24thGrade had said, by no means should you avoid applying to SGU at all costs. The unfortunate reality is that year after year, highly qualified students are being rejected by US schools and they are forced to look elsewhere in order to achieve their dream of becoming a physician...and for me, SGU gave me that opportunity. As someone who went on several residency interviews, I can tell you that I had program directors tell me directly that they have nothing but great things to say about my University and that several SGU students have gone through their residency program and gone on to become the Chief of their respective residencies before continuing onto fellowships. Needless to say, that only further reassured me of the quality of students that receive a SGU education.

To answer your question regarding research, absolutely you can (and should) get involved in it during your time as a medical student! I was able to get involved in several research projects during my clinical years and was fortunate enough to partake in 2 poster presentations at national conferences. The key is to be assertive while you are on your rotations and show interest in research...as long as you do that, attendings more often than not will be more than happy to guide you in the right direction.

Lastly, I'd like to provide you with a few links:
1. The SGU 2011 Match List (as well as prior years) showing the names of every student that has matched, specifying the Program/Hospital as well as the specialty he/she will be going into. In it you'll see some very impressive hospital programs (i.e., Albert Einstein, Mount Sinai) as well as some very competitive specialties (i.e., orthopedic surgery, ophthalmology, neurosurgery), that should assure you that a SGU education does not mean that you would be applying and reapplying to residency hoping to get into any residency program.In fact, we have a 98% success rate of US students matching into a US residency within 2 years of graduation.

https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2011/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

2. A list of the SGU affiliated clinical centers. While you'll see that there are hospitals located in several states, the majority are located in NY and NJ. I myself did the majority of my rotations in NJ and remained at both St. Barnabas and Newark Beth Israel for my clinical years (so there's no traveling around from state-to-state like some other Caribbean schools force their students into doing).

http://www.sgu.edu/school-of-medicine/affiliated-hospitals.html

3. As I noted, my clinical experience, I felt, was second-to-none. And to show you just how strong some of our hospitals are, here is a link to USNews, which just recently released a list of the top NY/NJ based hospitals. Of the ranked NJ hospitals, SGU has affiliations with 5 of the top 8 (including the top 2 - Hackensack University Medical Center and Newark Beth Israel).

http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/new-york-ny

Any additional questions you may have, PLEASE don't hesitate to ask and I'll do my best to reply in a timely manner! Best of luck on the MCAT and I hope things work out for the best!!

 

[CrunchBox11]

Re: Neuronix
If SGU was your only medical school acceptance, it was your last option. Wasn't it? I suppose you could have reapplied. I would actually recommend reapplication in such a case with DO as a backup NOT Carribean, but that is an opinion call.
A few other notes. There's a lot of talk about filling outside the match going away as residency positions get tighter. Residency spots are already getting extremely tight and IMGs are being increasingly squeezed out (as pointed out in the op's linked thread). As 24thGrade pointed out, there's a also a lot of talk about forcing the Caribbean crowd out of US hospitals for rotations. Why should domestic medical students have to travel long distances for their rotations because Caribbean schools bribe US hospitals with large amounts of money? No hospitals on the island??? Too bad. No med school.



Hi Neuronix,

I'm sorry that my response to Clarkalim seemed to have struck a cord with you. My reply, which is directed towards her more than it is an open invitation for a playground back-and-forth discussion as to whether you feel my education is a credible one or not, is to dispel some of the false rumors that individuals may have when associating SGU with many of the other Caribbean medical schools.

But to answer some of things that you mention there being "a lot of talk about" - yes, there has been "a lot of talk" about whether signing contracts outside of the match will be a thing of the past. In fact, it has been talked about for a few years now. If and when that does happen, that will no longer be an option for IMGs or DOs (who also receive the very same opportunity). Fortunately, despite there being talk of pre-matches not occurring for the 2011 Match, that didn't stop 3 programs from offering them to myself or to the countless other SGU students that were given similar offers. Not to mention the fact that several students who turned down pre-match offers, myself included, still wound up matching into strong, credible programs - both university and community based. You also pointed out "a lot of talk" about how Caribbean students are crowding US hospitals and their rotation spots. That actually made me laugh a bit. Having had the opportunity to do the bulk of my rotations at two excellent NJ hospitals, and working alongside US medical students (UMDNJ - NJMS), US P.A. students (Seton Hall University) and US D.O. students (NYCOM), I can assure you that there was no crowding whatsoever. All students received ample and equal amounts of patient exposure along with lecture time from attendings and residents, respectively. In fact, the inner city hospital would get so busy at times that medical students, both US or IMG, could easily take on an even greater workload and follow 3, 4 or even 5 patients if they felt that follwing 1-2 patients wasn't enough. As for US students needing to travel longer - Newark Beth Israel is located in Newark, NJ. UMNDJ-NJMS is located in Newark, NJ, and the PA program at Seton Hall Univ is in South Orange, NJ (5.1 miles away) - so don't worry - I don't think those students are taking too big of a hit at the pump for their commute. And believe it or not, not only did the attendings and residents treat us with the same amount of respect, but many of us students got along so well that we would find the time to get together outside of the hospital.

Lastly, I appreciate your advice on how I should've handled my medical school application process. But you're wrong, SGU was not my last option. My last option would have been to further pursue my Master's research at UMDNJ and wait another 6 months before reapplying to medical school for the following academic year (thus putting me 2 years behind of where I am now). I didn't apply to any D.O. programs because I didn't think it was the right fit for me. The fact that D.O. physicians are not legally allowed to practice medicine outside of the United States was one reason, along with the fact that the idea of manipulative medicine and alternative forms of medicine simply did not appeal to me. In fact, several D.O. residents that I've talked to throughout my 3rd and 4th year claim that they don't even remember what they learned regarding manipulative medicine - so to me, I had no interest in pursuing a degree that I did not believe in.

So all in all, I'm very proud of the path that I chose. And if it weren't for SGU, I wouldn't be starting a residency in neurology some 40 minutes away from where I grew up here in New York - so for that, I am very grateful. But as you said, choosing anything over SGU is simply your opinion....and as Plato once said, an opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. Your opinion just happens to be swayed more towards the latter.

Kind Regards.