So MD/M.S. Clinical Investigation degrees seem to be on the rise these days (several schools I applied to tout their offerings) and I'm wondering how to judge the value of them. They seem to be a new phenomenon, but obviously academic physicians have been around for much longer than these degrees. Do MSCI's just try to formalize learning that had once/still is done less formally (on the job)? If so, is it possible to acquire the skills that these degrees confer without actually going through the degree program? In other words, how useful are these MSCI degrees for aspiring academic physicians? And, is during the course of study for the MD the best time to complete an MSCI?
MD/MSCI joint degrees: legit, or unnecessary?
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http://school.med.nyu.edu/studentsf.../masters-programs/mdms-clinical-investigation
It's important for researchers interested in translational research, but I tend to think its generally worthless. Good luck getting the expertise necessary to successfully write RO1 grants in only one year of training. Do residencies appreciate MD/MSci applicants more than MDs? Generally, these secondary degrees are low on the totem pole of what res. directors look for in applicants. Oh, and your summers suck. Get a PhD if you're really interested in research. Opinions undoubtedly vary. In any case, apply to combined MD/MSci programs that are NIH-funded for tuition discounts.
It's important for researchers interested in translational research, but I tend to think its generally worthless. Good luck getting the expertise necessary to successfully write RO1 grants in only one year of training. Do residencies appreciate MD/MSci applicants more than MDs? Generally, these secondary degrees are low on the totem pole of what res. directors look for in applicants. Oh, and your summers suck. Get a PhD if you're really interested in research. Opinions undoubtedly vary. In any case, apply to combined MD/MSci programs that are NIH-funded for tuition discounts.
It doesn't seem like these degrees are geared towards those seeking to run an R01- funded lab but rather clinical trials, etc. for which I don't think an R01 is necessary?
I agree with your sentiment about it not being valuable for residencies (although one school's page said having the degree made you competitive for prestigious fellowships - lol @ marketing). That is why I feel my time would be better spent studying for MD exams, Step I, rotations, etc. rather than taking "study design" etc. Although very interesting to me in theory, I question the "value added" of these degrees.
I agree with your sentiment about it not being valuable for residencies (although one school's page said having the degree made you competitive for prestigious fellowships - lol @ marketing). That is why I feel my time would be better spent studying for MD exams, Step I, rotations, etc. rather than taking "study design" etc. Although very interesting to me in theory, I question the "value added" of these degrees.
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My personal opinion, as someone who works with many physicians who are earning or who have earned this degree, is that it is best earned during a residency or fellowship when the material learned in the classroom can be directly applied to writing an R01. Most fellows are working as personnel on clinical trials so the classes apply to what they are doing now and what they are training to do in the future.
I think that a M1/M2 has too little work experience to make the most of the MS in Clinical Investigation.
I think that a M1/M2 has too little work experience to make the most of the MS in Clinical Investigation.
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There is nothing that you can do as a MD/MSci that you can't do as simply a MD. In fact, you can get NIH funding as an undergraduate if you apply through the right "diversity" programs. You can be a part of clinical trials as just an MD.
And yeah, a RO1 is just the top NIH research grant available, but there are other grants such as RO3s and whatever that provide funding. I'm not sure exactly what category clinical trial funding falls under, but they are undoubtedly difficult to gain and obtaining a MSci would be just a small step in obtaining the experience necessary to successfully implement these programs.
I'm not saying that training for a year or so in research is a bad idea, as any experience in the field is a huge benefit. For residency purposes, let me clarify by saying having a MSci may be better than not having a MSci, but as others before me have put it, having a MPH and wanting to work in epidemiology is better than having a MSci and never doing basic science research again. The merits of the graduate degree will be weighed down by directors in their specific program and some will be more receptive than others. For the top residencies, of course, generally the best advice is to do well in your steps and rotations and go from there.
For medical school purposes, MA and MS degrees are near the bottom of what many applicants need for admission purposes. If your grades are bad, do a post-bac. If your grades are really bad, do an SMP. In both cases, the MCAT must be savaged.
And yeah, a RO1 is just the top NIH research grant available, but there are other grants such as RO3s and whatever that provide funding. I'm not sure exactly what category clinical trial funding falls under, but they are undoubtedly difficult to gain and obtaining a MSci would be just a small step in obtaining the experience necessary to successfully implement these programs.
I'm not saying that training for a year or so in research is a bad idea, as any experience in the field is a huge benefit. For residency purposes, let me clarify by saying having a MSci may be better than not having a MSci, but as others before me have put it, having a MPH and wanting to work in epidemiology is better than having a MSci and never doing basic science research again. The merits of the graduate degree will be weighed down by directors in their specific program and some will be more receptive than others. For the top residencies, of course, generally the best advice is to do well in your steps and rotations and go from there.
For medical school purposes, MA and MS degrees are near the bottom of what many applicants need for admission purposes. If your grades are bad, do a post-bac. If your grades are really bad, do an SMP. In both cases, the MCAT must be savaged.
