MD or JD

[Sir Kade]

First off, as my first post here, I'd like to say hello to everyone who reads this post and furthermore preemptively thank them for reading this.

Here's the gist, I am currently an undergrad and I basicly have two loves (as far as I've discovered) which I would love to make careers out of. These being Medicine and Law. I know mixing the two would be very hard from what I have heard. Basicly, for me, it would be a hard choice to decide which one I should do.

Here are the advantages and disadvantages from what I have gathered,

JD: Cheaper by some amount, only three years(even though I heard the three years after graduation is nothing but legal research for your firm), less gratifying than saving a life, still there is debt, chance at litigation and trial experience, if I decide to ultimately become a Doctor I'll have more life exprience than when I am 21-22 hotshot.

MD: Much more expensive, and thus more debt, 8+ years of Med school Internship and residency, chance to do scientific research, Working for the best of your patient, might dislike it(I've seen quite a few bitter Doctors in my day, but I've also seen happy Doctors too), in general longer hours, better pay.

So yeah, some of my thoughts, while most of you are not lawyers, I believe I did see one or two while lurking and reading stuff.

I am not really seeking a way to be 100% sure I choose the right path. I'm just shooting off my thoughts and hoping to get some good advice back or cover something I missed.

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[relentless11]

Here's the gist, I am currently an undergrad and I basicly have two loves (as far as I've discovered) which I would love to make careers out of. These being Medicine and Law. I know mixing the two would be very hard from what I have heard. Basicly, for me, it would be a hard choice to decide which one I should do.

First and foremost, why don't you go shadow a physician(s) to find out what medicine is like, as well as shadow (if possible) a JD. I can give you some pros and cons of medicine, and I'm sure one of the nontrads can give you the low down on the JD side of things, but the fact remains this is YOUR life and you aren't us, so you have to find out for yourself. Lastly mixing the two is not neccessarily hard, we have MD/JD's at our med school. I believe one of them is head of our IRB.

Here are the advantages and disadvantages from what I have gathered,

JD: Cheaper by some amount, only three years(even though I heard the three years after graduation is nothing but legal research for your firm), less gratifying than saving a life, still there is debt, chance at litigation and trial experience, if I decide to ultimately become a Doctor I'll have more life exprience than when I am 21-22 hotshot.

"More life experience" is relative. Self-gratification is also relative. I worked for the US Army, and "opened" a door with a breaching charge while at Ft. Benning, that was gratifying. Conversely, when I volunteered in the ER and help translate for a spanish speaking family, that was also gratifying. Saving a life would be too, but so's mentoring underserved middle school students.

MD: Much more expensive, and thus more debt, 8+ years of Med school Internship and residency, chance to do scientific research, Working for the best of your patient, might dislike it(I've seen quite a few bitter Doctors in my day, but I've also seen happy Doctors too), in general longer hours, better pay.

Not neccessarily true, depends on the school, and the specialty you head into. Med school is 4 years, and residency is 3-6 years. If you want to do a fellowship, that can add more time too. But it is up to you and not required.
In regards to do scientific research, anyone can do that as an undergrad, graduate or professional student. In terms of longer hours and better pay, that is also relative. Some dermatologists have excellent hours and make a lot of $$. But alas, its also a competative profession to get into.

So yeah, some of my thoughts, while most of you are not lawyers, I believe I did see one or two while lurking and reading stuff.

I am not really seeking a way to be 100% sure I choose the right path. I'm just shooting off my thoughts and hoping to get some good advice back or cover something I missed.

Seems you have a lot more research to do in regards to these professions. Therefore I encourage you to follow these people in real life rather than play the weighing game with the pros and cons of being a lawyer or physician. Have you taken the LSAT, or MCAT yet? Because either profession will require 110% committment in what you do, and thus indecisiveness will only cost you time and heartache. Not to mention indecisiveness is somewhat frowned upon by med schools.

All I can really say about being a pre-med is you have to like it beyond the $$, prestiege, and whatever else you can think of. Time and $$ is far beyond my mind right now, but what keeps me going is the fact that as a physician, I can diagnose, and treat a problem. The concept of helping people is broad and encompasses many professions (RN, PA, EMT, etc), but as an MD or DO, I can implement both simple and complex treatments in hopes of resolving the problem.

 

[Law2Doc]

First off, as my first post here, I'd like to say hello to everyone who reads this post and furthermore preemptively thank them for reading this.

Here's the gist, I am currently an undergrad and I basicly have two loves (as far as I've discovered) which I would love to make careers out of. These being Medicine and Law. I know mixing the two would be very hard from what I have heard. Basicly, for me, it would be a hard choice to decide which one I should do.

Here are the advantages and disadvantages from what I have gathered,

JD: Cheaper by some amount, only three years(even though I heard the three years after graduation is nothing but legal research for your firm), less gratifying than saving a life, still there is debt, chance at litigation and trial experience, if I decide to ultimately become a Doctor I'll have more life exprience than when I am 21-22 hotshot.

MD: Much more expensive, and thus more debt, 8+ years of Med school Internship and residency, chance to do scientific research, Working for the best of your patient, might dislike it(I've seen quite a few bitter Doctors in my day, but I've also seen happy Doctors too), in general longer hours, better pay.

So yeah, some of my thoughts, while most of you are not lawyers, I believe I did see one or two while lurking and reading stuff.

I am not really seeking a way to be 100% sure I choose the right path. I'm just shooting off my thoughts and hoping to get some good advice back or cover something I missed.

Let's put aside the issues of cost, compensation and the number of years of education, because over the many decades you will end up practicing either of these it will all wash out. Assuming those were equal, which would you choose? What sounds fun about each job? What do you see yourself doing each day? I agree with relentless -- spend some time shadowing and volunteering to see medicine, and maybe try to get a job as a paralegal at a law firm, so you can actually see what goes on in each profession. And talk to people about what they do each day. Most law is not litigation but those who enjoy law don't find it less gratifying that they don't save lives (although if you go into criminal law you actually can save a life as a lawyer). Bottom line is no one can tell you what you would enjoy -- you really need to figure it out for yourself and then throw yourself in it whole hog. Good luck!

 

[Sir Kade]

Thank you both.

Indeed, I shouldn't really be focusing on costs to be honest, I should be looking at what I want to do. My Uncle(who became a poet) wasn't looking at costs when he decided what he wanted to do. He's as happy as he can be.

Likewise, I should choose which one I like more regardless of time and costs. It's if I like what I am doing is what counts.

But becoming a paralegal...Never thought about that. That would indeed be a good way to gain some experience beyond what I have as a client and observer.

As for medicine, I've actually shadowed a few times before, I definitely enjoyed the bit I've experienced.

And I indeed do have much to learn about both, and yes, I do realize that not everything I said in my original post is correct. Residencies do go from 3(Emergency Med, Family Med) to 6 years(Neurosurgery, ect). Teaches me to write something at two in the morning.

But yes, I do have a bit to learn about both professions...I never like to make uninformed choices.

 

[vtucci]

I was a lawyer and am now a first year medical student. The two fields could not be more different. That being said-- it is really cool to combine the fields through advocacy and other programs.

First up, you can get through law school in 2 1/2 years if you do summers so it can be even shorter than you think (that is what I did). A state school is going to run you about 80K for a JD. Of course, if you go private/Ivy League-- you need to up the price by quite a bit (think 140K).

Why don't you take a law class over the summer-- many schools will let you do this and make sure that you like it. For a first law class, I would recommend either constitutional law or criminal law. Contracts and property are much harder but if you want to go full in- they will give you a better idea of what most law classes are like.

You can continue to shadow docs and then think about talking to a state senator about health law issues (malpractice, prescription meds- it is limitless). You can also sit in in many courtrooms. However, as others have mentioned, 90% of law is not litigation and most litigation (the people actually making the arguments) is not done by younger lawyers (but by older/more experienced lawyers).

Continue your medical volunteer work regardless and if you have questions- PM me.

 

[Law2Doc]

Why don't you take a law class over the summer-- many schools will let you do this and make sure that you like it. For a first law class, I would recommend either constitutional law or criminal law.

One caveat to this is that law school classes are really nothing like practice, and so won't really help you decide if that is what you want to do with your career. For this reason, I think this should be a later step, and you should find your way into a lawfirm in some capacity first. But I suppose the classes will let you decide if that's the way you want to spend the next three years. I would also note that constitutional law is the most interesting but the least practical subject, and most practitioners will go through their entire career without facing a constitutional law matter.

 

[medworm]

Here's a creative way to read the vague signals fired up by your confused neurons right now:

Spend all day at a law library and another all-day marathon at a medical library, studying books on the stacks and perusing journals.

The joint that leaves you less bleary-eyed is the path for you.

Also, law tends to be more verbose whereas medicine's more visual and mechanical. You can try matching that to your personality as well.

Good luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

Also, law tends to be more verbose whereas medicine's more visual and mechanical. You can try matching that to your personality as well.

Not a hard and fast rule -- patent law can be pretty visual and mechanical.

 

[vtucci]

I did intellectual property law (including patent, copyright and trademark) and hated it. IP law can be more mechanical. You need to figure out what you like.

I agree with Law2doc that constitutional law is not used by many practitioners of law today and law school does not accurately portray the actual practice of law. However, you will not likely have an opportunity to see more about the practice until you are in a program.

Con law is not bad place to start and most people are interested in it. In addition, it is commonly offered at many schools (along with criminal law) over the summer. If you hate constitutional law, it is likely you are not going to enjoy a lot of the other courses. Tax law is a lot more practical and used by many in practice but I would never recommend that you start there. The IRS code is a nightmare to go through.

 

[PhDtoDO]

You could do both.

Many schools offer combined degrees. I think you can get both in 6 years at some schools.

Just a thought.

-sarah

 

[Law2Doc]

You could do both.

Many schools offer combined degrees. I think you can get both in 6 years at some schools.

Just a thought.

-sarah

You'd want to have a pretty solid career plan before you embarked on such a dual degree. There are very few specific jobs that require both, and you thus will need to either trailblaze a career path and convince employers that there is a necessity for both degrees, or end up using just one or the other. There have been many threads on this. In my opinion if you can decide on one or the other career path, you are much better off. (Of course you can always change your mind years later )

 

[ProZackMI]

First off, as my first post here, I'd like to say hello to everyone who reads this post and furthermore preemptively thank them for reading this.

Here's the gist, I am currently an undergrad and I basicly have two loves (as far as I've discovered) which I would love to make careers out of. These being Medicine and Law. I know mixing the two would be very hard from what I have heard. Basicly, for me, it would be a hard choice to decide which one I should do.

Here are the advantages and disadvantages from what I have gathered,

JD: Cheaper by some amount, only three years(even though I heard the three years after graduation is nothing but legal research for your firm), less gratifying than saving a life, still there is debt, chance at litigation and trial experience, if I decide to ultimately become a Doctor I'll have more life exprience than when I am 21-22 hotshot.

MD: Much more expensive, and thus more debt, 8+ years of Med school Internship and residency, chance to do scientific research, Working for the best of your patient, might dislike it(I've seen quite a few bitter Doctors in my day, but I've also seen happy Doctors too), in general longer hours, better pay.

So yeah, some of my thoughts, while most of you are not lawyers, I believe I did see one or two while lurking and reading stuff.

I am not really seeking a way to be 100% sure I choose the right path. I'm just shooting off my thoughts and hoping to get some good advice back or cover something I missed.

Just a few comments here.

1) To limit yourself to two general career paths, or perhaps, more generally, two graduate degrees, is...sorry, but for lack of a better term, assinine. Why would you limit yourself to only two degrees, thus, a somewhat narrow playing field careerwise?

QUESTIONS TO ASK YOURSELF:
a) is money and time a REAL issue? If so, what about vet school, dental school, optometry school, pharmacy school, podiatric school? Those degree programs are on par with law school (about 3-4 years post bac) with no required residency. The earning potential is there and to some extent, so is the patient interaction.

b) what do you really wanna do when you grow up? If litigation, legal research and writing, or legal counseling appeals to you more, then there's your answer. If helping people through the medical route is your try desire, then consider medical school, but you may also want to refer back to #a (time and money), and try vet school, pharm school, optometry school, dental school, or if you want to spend even less time and money, PA or NP school.

c) if you want to combine medical-legal, do you need the MD/DO and JD? It might be overkill and too costly. Why not JD+NP or JD+PA? What abou PharmD-JD or DVM-JD? Lots of possible combinations out there that wouldn't involve residency, expanded student loans, etcc.

2) Medical school is NOT 8 years! It all depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a family practice physician, after undergrad, you need 4 years of medical school plus a 2-3 year residency (I think FP is 2-3 years). IM is 3 years. Psych is 3-4 (can be combined with IM/FP). You'll have to match into the appropriate residency. Yes, it's not cheap and it will cost you may years timewise. That's why I suggest considering being more open-minded and looking into alternate professional programs like PharmD, OD, DPM, DVM, DDS/DMD, AuD, DPT, PsyD/PhD, etc. Also, consider PA and NP. Allo/Osteo med is not the end all-be all in health care.

3) If you have a more medical leaning, go the medical route and then later, do a JD part-time.

4) NEVER, EVER, EVER consider doing a JD in less than 3 years. Never, ever consider doing a truncated medical degree in 3 years! Such foolishness will fry your brain; you need to balance school with life, not school with school! Do not listen to anyone who suggests doing that. Professional school is not easy, whether it's medical, pharm, law, vet, etc. Do not take the easy way out of anything in life, unless it's too good of an offer to pass. The easy route can often be the not-so-easy route. Plan ahead and make time for your schooling, but never, ever stop enjoying your life, especially when you're young. Enjoy life when you're in your 20s. You might think you're getting all that nasty schooling out the way sooner, but in reality, you'll be accomplishing your goals while making time to see movies, date others, get laid, go for long drives during breaks (road trips), visiting family and friends, and making reasonable purchases, etc. If you're stuck inside law/medical books all the time, you will miss out on many things around you. I mean, you'll do this anyway, taking the normal path, but why make it worse for yourself!

Don't be so restricted here...open your mind to other possibilities. There is more to life than an MD or JD. Also, last words of wisdom, if you really want both degrees, do the MD first, finish your residency, and once you're making money, then, and only then, consider law school. The thing to keep in mind is, very few MD/JDs actually combine both degrees effectively. Most either stay in medicine and use their JD for ****z and giggles, or some move over into law and leave medicine. There are some who enter academia, but a PHD (in a health-related discipline)/JD is much more sensible than an MD/JD. Remember one thing, the MD is ONLY good for practicing medicine; it's not an appropriate research degree. The JD is also a practice-oriented degree, although it does prepare one to do legal research much more than an MD prepares one to be a medical researcher. If you want to go into academia, let's say in bioethics, get your JD, pass the bar, and then get a job. Go back for an MA or PhD in bioethics, sociology, philosophy, educational psychology, etc., and do that part-time while working and making money. Once you're a JD-PhD or JD-MA, then you can move over into academia once you start publishing and writing more in your field, or have practiced in a certain area. You don't need an MD and JD to teach med related law classes or law-related med classes.

If you want to practice medicine and learn about law, but not practice law, you don't need a JD -- take paralegal or graduate poli sci classes. If you want to practice law with a strong medical base, take medical-related courses -- get an MPH, MS (bio/anatomy), BSN/MSN degree, PA degree, etc. Med school is overkill and unnecessary.

Best of luck!

 

[NonTradMed]

If you truly enjoy both medicine and law and want to focus on practical aspects, here is what I found.

At the behest of my father, I did explore a law career, and I realized it wasn't for me because I felt there was a tradeoff in law between your wish to help those in need and your desire to make a comfortable income (or my definition of it). I felt in law, the more money you make, the more likely that it will be from working for a wealthy law firm or a large company. If you want to truly help people in law, the money may be severely limited. From a monetary standpoint, I didnt' like that trade off. I liked to be able to do my job, and have the flexibility of making money regardless of who my clients were. Of course, this will depend on your idea of what is 'comfortable' salary. I felt medicine, from a financial standpoint, offered more in terms of allowing me to help people while providing me a nice salary. Others may feel differently. It all comes down to your comfort level. Of course, after speaking with lawyers, the idea of working 'billable' hours didnt' appeal to me either. I guess I was always a doc at heart LOL. But you do have to consider the logistics of working in either career. A lawyer may have to worry about billable hours, or making little money as a public defender/nonprofit org. But they require no residency, and don't have to deal with HMOs, and less chance of killing someone. Have you thought about these? Ask yourself which types of 'headaches' are you willing to put up with more? I found out I preferred the headaches of HMOs, malpractice lawsuits over billable hours and working for BigLaw to pay off my tuition. You may find those are acceptable risks.

 

[medworm]

Not a hard and fast rule -- patent law can be pretty visual and mechanical.

Hmm - great point. In the case of patent law, sounds like an engineering background would come in handy.

 

[vtucci]

It does-- but you do not need an engineering background for patent law. Keep in mind though that bio degrees are a dime a dozen.