MD/PhD essay

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

doctorjoy

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
0
Hello everyone. I have a question for those who have applied to MSTP programs. I am currently applying to medical school to enter a MSTP program. I want to know what do you include in your MD/PhD statement that was not in your personal statement or research statement. :confused:

Members don't see this ad.
 
doctorjoy said:
Hello everyone. I have a question for those who have applied to MSTP programs. I am currently applying to medical school to enter a MSTP program. I want to know what do you include in your MD/PhD statement that was not in your personal statement or research statement. :confused:

You will have a hard time finding somebody who knows how to answer this question.... the MD/PhD statement and research statement were just introduced this year!

However, I think the MD/PhD statement should contain the reason why you want to get an MD/PhD instead of just a PhD for your research. The personal statement on the other hand should explain why you want to get an MD.
 
though we didn't have the md/phd personal statement on amcas while applying, it was represented in many applications to various schools on secondaries. what hardy says is essentially correct. if you think of your md/phd personal statement as somewhat modular, one might include some sort of thread that retrospectively imbued your research/clinical and other experiences with some thematic element(s) that have led you to the dual degrees (not to trivialize...). the research experience would be the 'meat' on the aforementioned 'skeleton'. in this new format/essay, you should include brief information on your research, but concentrate on your motivations/formative experiences/thoughts that led you to the md/phd degree.

the set of 3 essays (md personal statement/mdphd personal statement/research experience) should have mostly new information in each one, with some overlapping themes/information. they are an opportunity to allow the admissions committee to gain a multi-dimensional view of your thoughts on becoming an md/phd.

though it seems like you have an extra essay, you would have had to write an equivelent of this essay at some point. good luck.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Habari said:
though we didn't have the md/phd personal statement on amcas while applying, it was represented in many applications to various schools on secondaries. what hardy says is essentially correct. if you think of your md/phd personal statement as somewhat modular, one might include some sort of thread that retrospectively imbued your research/clinical and other experiences with some thematic element(s) that have led you to the dual degrees (not to trivialize...). the research experience would be the 'meat' on the aforementioned 'skeleton'. in this new format/essay, you should include brief information on your research, but concentrate on your motivations/formative experiences/thoughts that led you to the md/phd degree.

the set of 3 essays (md personal statement/mdphd personal statement/research experience) should have mostly new information in each one, with some overlapping themes/information. they are an opportunity to allow the admissions committee to gain a multi-dimensional view of your thoughts on becoming an md/phd.

though it seems like you have an extra essay, you would have had to write an equivelent of this essay at some point. good luck.

As another, going through the application process this year for MSTP, my essays pretty much followed these formats to a "T".

There are two unanswered question I have is how will the MD only view seeing the MSTP essay and knowing this applicant is applying for MD-PhD vs MD. I had heard there was some bias there, which I am not sure about the validity of that rumor.

Second question, I am just wondering how to respond to the secondaries that ask basically some of the same questions. Do/Will the schools request me to rewrite a new essay or will the secondaries be modified to not include those types of redundant questions.
 
Does anyone else agreee that this entire 3 essay requirement is a huge pain in the arse? :smuggrin:
 
bottles999 said:
As another, going through the application process this year for MSTP, my essays pretty much followed these formats to a "T".

There are two unanswered question I have is how will the MD only view seeing the MSTP essay and knowing this applicant is applying for MD-PhD vs MD. I had heard there was some bias there, which I am not sure about the validity of that rumor.

Second question, I am just wondering how to respond to the secondaries that ask basically some of the same questions. Do/Will the schools request me to rewrite a new essay or will the secondaries be modified to not include those types of redundant questions.
First A: MD committees may or may not view you differently because you are applying to an MD/PhD. In my experience, applying to the dual degree put me at a disadvantage to getting into an MD-only program. This is likely due to the fact that my stated motivation and goals will differ from many of the committee members' which will impeded their ability to relate to what I was saying. Also, I was (and am) very research-focused in my essays. The perpetual response is "why not just a PhD?" I ended up getting in to all of my interview schools, but only one offered me MD admission before dual-degree admission--the MD/PhD committees were likely more responsible for the offers than the MD committees. If you keep your MD essay very medically/clinically focused, without alienating or contradicting your research motivation and goals, you should have less of an issue.

2nd A: The secondaries may significantly change given this change in the AMCAS format. If I was on an adcom, I would try to minimize redundancy. Look out for more specific questions, and be sure to tailor secondary app essays to each school, paying attention to their research foci, strengths, and the adcom members (debatable).
 
1Path said:
Does anyone else agreee that this entire 3 essay requirement is a huge pain in the arse? :smuggrin:
Except that in previous years MD-PhD applicants had to do the two additional essays anyway for each individual program. The inclusion of the two MD-PhD essays was the result of a request by MD-PhD program directors, who wanted to make it easier for prosepctive students to apply. The original goal was to arrive at a common application. This did not quite work out because some programs wanted to include a "vision question" (e.g., where do you see yourself in 15 years?) or a "personal question" (e.g., who is the person who has been most influential in your decision to pursue the combined degree), etc. In the end, the programs found two essays that were common to all applications; these are the ones that ended up on the AMCAS. For some schools, these may be the only questions they ask, in which case, you will not need to much else to apply to their program. For others, you will still need to answer a vision question or something else.

This being the first year that these essays are available on AMCAS, it is doubtful that many programs will be able to accept them. Programs will need time to figure out how to incorporate the AMCAS essays into their process. So, you may find that you will be writing the same essays for most of the programs you apply to. This will change in the coming years, but it will never be 100% since some schools can't or won't change their process. In the end, it is hoped that the majority of programs will accept the essays and make it easier for indviduals to apply to MD-PHD programs.

In reply to bottles999, only schools that you designate as MD-PhD will see the MD-PhD essays; schools designated MD-only will not see the MD-PhD stuff.
 
Maebea said:
The inclusion of the two MD-PhD essays was the result of a request by MD-PhD program directors, who wanted to make it easier for prosepctive students to apply. The original goal was to arrive at a common application. .

What an altruistic goal. My first thought when I saw the new requirements was that program directors were looking for new ways to screen out anyone who is likely to drop out of the combined program.
 
Maebea said:
Except that in previous years MD-PhD applicants had to do the two additional essays anyway for each individual program. The inclusion of the two MD-PhD essays was the result of a request by MD-PhD program directors, who wanted to make it easier for prosepctive students to apply. The original goal was to arrive at a common application. This did not quite work out because some programs wanted to include a "vision question" (e.g., where do you see yourself in 15 years?) or a "personal question" (e.g., who is the person who has been most influential in your decision to pursue the combined degree), etc. In the end, the programs found two essays that were common to all applications; these are the ones that ended up on the AMCAS. For some schools, these may be the only questions they ask, in which case, you will not need to much else to apply to their program. For others, you will still need to answer a vision question or something else.

This being the first year that these essays are available on AMCAS, it is doubtful that many programs will be able to accept them. Programs will need time to figure out how to incorporate the AMCAS essays into their process. So, you may find that you will be writing the same essays for most of the programs you apply to. This will change in the coming years, but it will never be 100% since some schools can't or won't change their process. In the end, it is hoped that the majority of programs will accept the essays and make it easier for indviduals to apply to MD-PHD programs.

In reply to bottles999, only schools that you designate as MD-PhD will see the MD-PhD essays; schools designated MD-only will not see the MD-PhD stuff.

Thanks for the info on that. I wasnt 100% sure if that were the case. Right now I really havnt designated any of my schools as MD only, all are MSTP. With the exception of 1 school that outright said, "IF you apply as MSTP you WILL NOT be considered for the MD only program." I was fine with that.

One additional comment, I just talked with one school's MSTP program and they outright told me they are working internally how they will resturcture their secondaries based on the AMCAS changes in the essay formats for MSTP. They still had not completely settled on anything yet.
 
1Path said:
What an altruistic goal. My first thought when I saw the new requirements was that program directors were looking for new ways to screen out anyone who is likely to drop out of the combined program.


I didnt view it this way. I looked at it as asking more the most fundamental questions about who really is qualified. Not sure it removes all the needs for the MSTP only portion or the MSTP applicaiton plus the MD secondary applicaiton.

Yes, its a pain the you know what, but it really worked out well for me, IMHO. I knew I'd have to cross this bridge sooner or later, better now and get the framework for future more specific quesitons out of the way.

Also, think it will help in the long run with the LORs and providing the essays to the profs as more background. - Current belief and subject to change in the future. ;)
 
bottles999 said:
Yes, its a pain the you know what, but it really worked out well for me, IMHO. I knew I'd have to cross this bridge sooner or later, better now and get the framework for future more specific quesitons out of the way.

Realistically speaking, I think any one applying MD/PhD is aware of all the hurdles involved. But considering I'm already writiing up my research/editing it for the upteenth time, wrapping up my other project so I can submit another abstract, I would have been nice to only have ONE essay at least until secondary/interview time to deal with these days. :scared:

The question is how much is going to change between these essays and the secondary. Looks like I'm going to be doing a LOT of cutting and pasting! :D
 
1Path said:
Does anyone else agreee that this entire 3 essay requirement is a huge pain in the arse? :smuggrin:
No kidding and how come the third essay has to be around 10,000 characters... :eek:
 
iwutitan said:
No kidding and how come the third essay has to be around 10,000 characters... :eek:

I don't think that there is a requirement to use all 10,000. That is merely all the space that AMCAS has been kind enough to offer for this essay. Depending on how much research experience one has or hasnt can justify the use of all of that available space or not.
 
MSTP programs are so ever-changing and confused :confused:, so I don't put much stock in them other than the $$$ they offer to get 2 degrees. In my mind, it's all up to me, my mentor, my school, and whatever I want to do.
We can call jump ship if our life's are falling apart and to "stressful." If my hair starts to fall out and I can't live with that, I'm outta of this becaue my insides are more important than accolades from "higher education" institutions.
As a group of MD/PhD students we need to continue these discussions to strengthen our group and form goals that will ease the burdens of such long schooling. We already know the stress, but to me being a student is the easiest thing in the world. And for those who complain about money, yet still have free tuition and a stipend every year, really need to look at those who don't get the stipend as one's with their backs against the wall. I'd basically feel rich if I had a stipend. So, to me the question is how do we pull together MD/PhD's as a group across the country and make sure anyone who does this program at an accredited Medical school receives similar benefits.
If you talk to a med student they'll say, "never do med school," and a PhD will say "don't do a PhD." Everyone's got some bitterness, but we don't have to.
Good luck to all and please respond to this if it gets to you in any way.
 
studentups said:
We already know the stress, but to me being a student is the easiest thing in the world. And for those who complain about money, yet still have free tuition and a stipend every year, really need to look at those who don't get the stipend as one's with their backs against the wall. I'd basically feel rich if I had a stipend.
No doubt by now, I'd be a making 6 figures easy had I stayed in industry instead of giving it up for a salary that was 1/3 my normal salary (I ate a LOT of P & J that first summer). :laugh: But I'll tell you that I haven't looked back once even though most folks my age are buying their 3rd homes and have kids about to go to middle school, ect. I feel pretty blessed and thankful for the opportunities I've had thus far to find/pursue something I feel passionate about and I actually look forwad to future challenges.

studentups said:
If you talk to a med student they'll say, "never do med school," and a PhD will say "don't do a PhD." Everyone's got some bitterness, but we don't have to.
:thumbup:
My cup has ALWAYS been half-full!! ;)
 
bottles999 said:
I don't think that there is a requirement to use all 10,000. That is merely all the space that AMCAS has been kind enough to offer for this essay. Depending on how much research experience one has or hasnt can justify the use of all of that available space or not.

Agreed- especially if you want to include paper abstracts and have a large amount of research time to discuss.
 
1Path said:
Does anyone else agreee that this entire 3 essay requirement is a huge pain in the arse? :smuggrin:

I'm may be necessary, but yes, it's a HUGE pain. I'm so jealous of straight MD applicants, so much easier.
 
I disagree with some folks about the research experience... I am keeping it cut and dry. The other two essays are trying to convince them, you talk about your 'path' yadayada. I think the research essay should just be straight research experience, not why you want to be an MD/PhD as discussed in the other 'essay'

Please describe your significant research experiences. In your statement, please specify your research supervisor's name and affiliation, the duration of the experience, the nature of the problem studied, and your contributions to the project.
 
True, but make sure you're not just cutting and pasting abstracts or portions of a manuscript. The research experience should emphasize what YOU did and what YOU understand about the project and its implications. If schools wanted abstracts and manuscipts they would just request them in that form.

-X


izibo said:
I disagree with some folks about the research experience... I am keeping it cut and dry. The other two essays are trying to convince them, you talk about your 'path' yadayada. I think the research essay should just be straight research experience, not why you want to be an MD/PhD as discussed in the other 'essay'
 
No you still have to paint a picture and tell a story, but I dont believe it should be, "my research taught me that science was my true love and passion"
 
there isn't a set formula for these essays. everyone's essays will be different. some will incorporate a more personal feel to it. others will be cut and dry. there's nothing wrong with it. your past lab and life experiences will shape your essay. don't try to force a certain style.
 
Top