MD/PhD (organic chemistry)

[deleted577188]

I am slightly confused about MD/PhD programs. What is the PhD in? Can it be anything or is it usually something specific. I understand that it trains one to be a physician scientist, but what classes are usually taken as part of the PhD Program? Could one get a PhD in organic chemistry and an MD as part of these dual degree programs? Thanks!

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[Dormouse]

A good place to start would be the websites of MD/PhD programs. The PhD is most commonly done in a biology-related field, but others like biomedical engineering are also not uncommon. Some schools allow you to choose your PhD in a humanity field (though that's much less common). You choose the field after acceptance and matriculation into MD/PhD.

Course requirement is school dependent, but you usually choose a PhD department affiliated with the school's graduate school and then take the classes required for that department, same as for traditional grad students. More likely, you choose a lab or mentor you'd like to work with, and then join a department that that mentor is affiliated with. In many cases, certain med school classes can be used to fulfill PhD course requirements, thus somewhat reducing the number of grad school classes you have to take. Hope that helps!

 

[lifetothefullest]

Could one get a PhD in organic chemistry and an MD as part of these dual degree programs? Thanks!

I'd think it'd be really hard to get a PhD in organic chem on the MD/PhD route. The MD/PhD route is usually advertised as a program for aspiring scientists who believe that a medical education would help further their careers in research, or in other words, people who think that they can combine patient care with research into the mechanisms of disease. With organic chem, the field is really about synthesis right now and it doesn't have many translational applications - unless you go into the biochem stuff.

 

[deleted577188]

I'd think it'd be really hard to get a PhD in organic chem on the MD/PhD route. The MD/PhD route is usually advertised as a program for aspiring scientists who believe that a medical education would help further their careers in research, or in other words, people who think that they can combine patient care with research into the mechanisms of disease. With organic chem, the field is really about synthesis right now and it doesn't have many translational applications - unless you go into the biochem stuff.

I understand. Thanks a lot.

 

[deleted577188]

A good place to start would be the websites of MD/PhD programs. The PhD is most commonly done in a biology-related field, but others like biomedical engineering are also not uncommon. Some schools allow you to choose your PhD in a humanity field (though that's much less common). You choose the field after acceptance and matriculation into MD/PhD.

Course requirement is school dependent, but you usually choose a PhD department affiliated with the school's graduate school and then take the classes required for that department, same as for traditional grad students. More likely, you choose a lab or mentor you'd like to work with, and then join a department that that mentor is affiliated with. In many cases, certain med school classes can be used to fulfill PhD course requirements, thus somewhat reducing the number of grad school classes you have to take. Hope that helps!

Yes that definitely helps. Thank you!

 

[Dormouse]

I'd assume organic chemistry falls into chemistry, which is a less commonly offered PhD, but some schools do offer it. Found this for the OP:
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/62760/data/faqtable.pdf

But like lifetothefullest said, you can easily just go with biochemistry or choose a PhD project that is more chemistry-heavy, if at some point you do go for the long route of MD/PhD.

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

You can't really get a PhD in "organic chemistry" haha. That being said, I looked at a lot of chemistry labs as an MD/PhD candidate this year. My own university often has MD/PhD students in one of the med chem labs on campus doing synthesis. It's a tough sell at the application level though. I would suggest aiming for pharmacology, biochemistry, or even chemical biology while applying.
EDIT: I'm doing an MS in chem (organic conc.), so if you have questions about grad level chem classes feel free to shoot me a message.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

lots of things are possible, maybe what you're proposing is possible.

but most of the time, there is usually a close connection between your clinical specialty and your research specialty.

i mean, there's probably an md/phd program that would let you get your phd in mathematics, but why do it? how does that relate to your clinical practice? how does your clinical practice inform the math research (?real thing) that you're doing.

granted: organic chemistry is less of a stretch than math, but it's still a little fundamental... hard to imagine how it fits into your future career

 

[deleted577188]

lots of things are possible, maybe what you're proposing is possible.

but most of the time, there is usually a close connection between your clinical specialty and your research specialty.

i mean, there's probably an md/phd program that would let you get your phd in mathematics, but why do it? how does that relate to your clinical practice? how does your clinical practice inform the math research (?real thing) that you're doing.

granted: organic chemistry is less of a stretch than math, but it's still a little fundamental... hard to imagine how it fits into your future career

I understand you. Yeah math and chemistry relate to each other quite a bit but don't relate to medicine equally as much lol that's ironic. But seriously, I understand your comparison. Thank you!!

 

[deleted577188]

You can't really get a PhD in "organic chemistry" haha. That being said, I looked at a lot of chemistry labs as an MD/PhD candidate this year. My own university often has MD/PhD students in one of the med chem labs on campus doing synthesis. It's a tough sell at the application level though. I would suggest aiming for pharmacology, biochemistry, or even chemical biology while applying.
EDIT: I'm doing an MS in chem (organic conc.), so if you have questions about grad level chem classes feel free to shoot me a message.

Definitely will do!

I'm only a sophomore but I love organic chemistry. It's the only thing I consider myself good at. I feel like I need to know more, so I'm slated to take some grad level mechanism classes next year and at this point I'm thinking that I wouldn't mind pursuing a graduate degree in it. (I know I've got a lot of time left in u-grad, but I'm just throwing ideas out there for myself)

One last thing. I'm pretty sure one can get a PhD in organic chemistry. Do you mean in terms of MD/PhD??

 

[deleted577188]

.

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

Definitely will do!

I'm only a sophomore but I love organic chemistry. It's the only thing I consider myself good at. I feel like I need to know more, so I'm slated to take some grad level mechanism classes next year and at this point I'm thinking that I wouldn't mind pursuing a graduate degree in it. (I know I've got a lot of time left in u-grad, but I'm just throwing ideas out there for myself)

One last thing. I'm pretty sure one can get a PhD in organic chemistry. Do you mean in terms of MD/PhD??

Have you started working in a lab yet? That really needs to be your #1 priority regardless. Most schools don't have different PhDs for different areas of chemistry was all that I was trying to say. You just get a PhD in chemistry at the end, not organic chemistry, or p chem, or inorganic, or w/e.

 

[deleted577188]

One last thing. What do you mean you can't get a PhD in Organic Chemistry??? Do you mean in terms of MD/PhD combined or solely PhD???

Have you started working in a lab yet? That really needs to be your #1 priority regardless. Most schools don't have different PhDs for different areas of chemistry was all that I was trying to say. You just get a PhD in chemistry at the end, not organic chemistry, or p chem, or inorganic, or w/e.

Yes I have started research and was quickly given my own project which I'm grateful for!

And yeah the diploma may not say "organic chemistry" but I'm almost certain one takes classes geared toward inorganic, organic, or physical chemistry.

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

Yes I have started research and was quickly given my own project which I'm grateful for!

And yeah the diploma may not say "organic chemistry" but I'm almost certain one takes classes geared toward inorganic, organic, or physical chemistry.

Well yeah. As a grad student you typically choose to take only classes that relate to your chosen area of research (and usually only in your first year as a PhD candidate). Most of the students that I take classes with are in classes taught by their PI and PIs with similar projects. What exactly is your career end goal by the way?

 

[deleted577188]

Well yeah. As a grad student you typically choose to take only classes that relate to your chosen area of research (and usually only in your first year as a PhD candidate). Most of the students that I take classes with are in classes taught by their PI and PIs with similar projects. What exactly is your career end goal by the way?

PM you?

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

PM you?

That would be best I think.

 

[lifetothefullest]

Have you started working in a lab yet? That really needs to be your #1 priority regardless. Most schools don't have different PhDs for different areas of chemistry was all that I was trying to say. You just get a PhD in chemistry at the end, not organic chemistry, or p chem, or inorganic, or w/e.

The UK schools offer highly specialized master's and PhD tracks - e.g. Inorganic Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, etc. if the OP wasn't particular about getting the degrees separately. Also, even though you're only awarded a degree in "Chemistry," your work will be specific to one particular subfield, determined by the lab(s) you're doing your dissertation in. So while an organic chemistry focus may be difficult, a biochem focus is definitely not unfeasible. There is a really rising and rich field in imaging sciences using radioisotopes and the sort and that's really translational as well.

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

^yeah, I worked in a contrast agent lab that involved lots of synthesis for a while that usually had MSTP students as a related example. I was just being pedantic to have a bit of fun.

 

[VitaminVater]

I am slightly confused about MD/PhD programs. What is the PhD in? Can it be anything or is it usually something specific. I understand that it trains one to be a physician scientist, but what classes are usually taken as part of the PhD Program? Could one get a PhD in organic chemistry and an MD as part of these dual degree programs? Thanks!

Hi onyisraw,

I'm an accepted MD-PhD student whose research experience was mostly in organic chemistry. I'll most likely be getting my PhD in chemical biology or pharmacology.

I would recommend that if you truly love organic chemistry, that you get yourself into a lab within the chemistry department at your university. Try to find a lab that does synthesis and other organic techniques but that has project which have medicinal goals.
Look up "medicinal chemistry", "chemical biology", "molecular pharmacology". These are all great fields that incorporate organic chemistry to come up with new therapeutics and treatments. Read journals/articles with these fields as keywords and see what sort of projects excite you.

When you do your MD-PhD, almost all schools will let you get a PhD in whatever you choose.
I recommend that even if you do join a very organic heavy chemistry lab and love doing synthesis (you should also be aiming to learn more biology oriented techniques i.e., biological assays), do NOT go for a PhD in a lab that does total synthesis or where your entire thesis will be on developing synthetic methodology. I feel this is far too removed from your ultimate goal as a physician-scientist, since you should always be leaning towards being more translational. You should look for labs/projects that specialize in drug discovery/development, and have had MD-PhD students in their labs.

 

[RedPhys]

I imagine you can, but it will have to be in a medically-related research field.
For example, you can do an MD/PhD in medically-related Physics (or Engineering Physics) projects at Harvard.
So, I think it just has to be tied (or related) to medicine (after all, you're in medical school, not graduate school, where the ultimate end-goal is medicine).

 

[deleted577188]

Hi onyisraw,

I'm an accepted MD-PhD student whose research experience was mostly in organic chemistry. I'll most likely be getting my PhD in chemical biology or pharmacology.

I would recommend that if you truly love organic chemistry, that you get yourself into a lab within the chemistry department at your university. Try to find a lab that does synthesis and other organic techniques but that has project which have medicinal goals.
Look up "medicinal chemistry", "chemical biology", "molecular pharmacology". These are all great fields that incorporate organic chemistry to come up with new therapeutics and treatments. Read journals/articles with these fields as keywords and see what sort of projects excite you.

When you do your MD-PhD, almost all schools will let you get a PhD in whatever you choose.
I recommend that even if you do join a very organic heavy chemistry lab and love doing synthesis (you should also be aiming to learn more biology oriented techniques i.e., biological assays), do NOT go for a PhD in a lab that does total synthesis or where your entire thesis will be on developing synthetic methodology. I feel this is far too removed from your ultimate goal as a physician-scientist, since you should always be leaning towards being more translational. You should look for labs/projects that specialize in drug discovery/development, and have had MD-PhD students in their labs.

This is probably the best and most straightforward answer I've gotten thus far. I am involved in synthetic research but I do like the idea of finding a real application of synthesis or medicinal chemistry to medicine. Thank you!

 

[Reformed_Herbivore]

This is probably the best and most straightforward answer I've gotten thus far. I am involved in synthetic research but I do like the idea of finding a real application of synthesis or medicinal chemistry to medicine. Thank you!

I would say that my experiences in research both past and potential future seem to be reasonably similar to vitaminwater's. I am looking at the same areas that he is and would suggest you do the same if these are your interests. I do think it is important to note that the majority of the pharmacology labs I had an opportunity to look at/interview with do not do their own synthesis work. It is incredibly important when you go on your interviews to ask about the nature of collaborations and the possibilities of joint positions in these types of labs. A lot of professors will have collaborations with chemistry labs or even chem cores to build up the lead compounds for their research, meaning that there won't be opportunities to do synthesis with many pharmacology labs. That being said, a fair number of these labs still do some synthesis work, and you can even find synthesis work in labs that would surprise you. The last MSTP I interviewed with I met with a virologist who did her own synthesis of inhibitors, so you can always find synthesis work in interesting and unexpected areas. I don't know what your stats are like, but we can probably give you a range of different schools that might be good research fits for you.

 

[URHere]

I agree with what some posters have already suggested here.

I did a lot of medicinal chemistry for my PhD project: 2 years of dedicated synthesis followed by 1.5-2 years of mechanism of action, in vitro, in vivo, modeling, and enzyme assay work. Technically, my PhD was in Physiology and Pharmacology with a sub-focus in Chemical Biology (although the school had no idea what to call my degree, and I ultimately got a diploma that just says "PhD"). Even if your interest is firmly planted in chemistry, I would really suggest dabbling in biology as well. There are very, very few MD/PhD scientists who are competent in both biology and chemistry. This has come up at nearly every conference I have attended, netted me random job offers, and allowed me to be a translator between those labs making drugs and those using biology to optimize them.

Furthermore, if you work in drug development it can be extremely translational and you are set up for any number of research jobs in the future (including running clinical trials if you decide to take a more clinical path).

 

[deleted577188]

I agree with what some posters have already suggested here.

I did a lot of medicinal chemistry for my PhD project: 2 years of dedicated synthesis followed by 1.5-2 years of mechanism of action, in vitro, in vivo, modeling, and enzyme assay work. Technically, my PhD was in Physiology and Pharmacology with a sub-focus in Chemical Biology (although the school had no idea what to call my degree, and I ultimately got a diploma that just says "PhD"). Even if your interest is firmly planted in chemistry, I would really suggest dabbling in biology as well. There are very, very few MD/PhD scientists who are competent in both biology and chemistry. This has come up at nearly every conference I have attended, netted me random job offers, and allowed me to be a translator between those labs making drugs and those using biology to optimize them.

Furthermore, if you work in drug development it can be extremely translational and you are set up for any number of research jobs in the future (including running clinical trials if you decide to take a more clinical path).

That sounds like very cool work. This is definitely something I'm gonna look into!

 

[z_maverica]

No MD can do organic chemistry. It's an oxymoron.