MD-PhD quits medicine to join food industry

[Goober]

I haven't seen this posted yet

Undergrad MIT, MD-PhD Hopkins throwing it all away....



http://www.baltimoresun.com/enterta...r02jun02,0,2138889.story?coll=bal-pe-alacarte

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[MacGyver]

2 possibilities:

1) She was dishonest on her applications. Med school apps ask you over and over again why you want to be a doc, what have you done to prepare for being a doc, etc etc etc. Thats not even to mention the interviews which also ask the same "why do you want to be a doc" questions over and over again.

2) Hopkins did a very poor job of screening her as an MD and MD/PhD applicant.

She has wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money. As an MD/PhD student, her school was supported by the NIH (taxpayers). Lets add it up here. 20k student stipend, 30k tuition, $2500 health insurance per year * 8 years = $420,000.

She should have kept this quiet instead of blabbering about it all over town. The NIH and Bob Siliciano at Hopkins WONT be pleased about this. The NIH rating of MD/PhD programs looks DIRECTLY at the attrition rate and the careers of MD/PhD alumni to rate the program.

 

[tofurious]

1. 16 years of higher education: that is since high school I imagine. One could potentially finish a college degree in 4 and MD-PhD in 7. How do the extra 5 years fit in? If it took me 12 years to get two degrees, I would have dropped out long ago.

2. Many other students have "wasted" taxpayers' money, including MD-PhD students who do not choose a career in research or academia, MD students on federally supported scholarships/loans who choose to not go into medicine or who will do anything for a fee (including selling homeopathic "meds" on TV), and some would even argue that MD graduates who don't work full time have wasted money spent to train them. (What about federal grants to study stars five galaxies away?)

3. If she's happy being a chef, kudos to her for doing something that makes her happy rather than doing something to just prove it's do-able. Also, perhaps we should all consider ourselves lucky that someone with such a prestigious resume is not competing for the same residency spot as we are since residency directors' eyes light up at MIT, JHU, and PhD.

 

[Adcadet]

good for her. If medicine isn't for you, don't force it. Then you suffer, your colleagues suffer, but more importantly, your patients suffer.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

This is a pretty mind-numbing story. I wonder what they're going to write in the graduation program at JHU for her future plans-- "Restaurant Owner," "Culinary Specialist?" This is totally supposition on my part, but she probably was pushed hard by her parents, has some immaturity issues, and will require a couple of years of exposure to the real-world to make her realize just how dumb her decision actually is and how painful and unsatisfying low-education labor actually is. I think she'll apply for residency in a couple of years.

 

[theduke]

Medicine is a business too. I wonder if she has thought about that

 

[tofurious]

she probably was pushed hard by her parents, has some immaturity issues, and will require a couple of years of exposure to the real-world to make her realize just how dumb her decision actually is and how painful and unsatisfying low-education labor actually is.

If you've been through med school, you'd know how unsatisfying patient interaction is to MANY people who act like Mother Theresa during the interview process.

As for graduation, the official term is usually "Deferred Residency".

 

[WatchingWaiting]

If you've been through med school, you'd know how unsatisfying patient interaction is to MANY people who act like Mother Theresa during the interview process.

As for graduation, the official term is usually "Deferred Residency".

Your response is a near complete non-sequitor. People who find patient interaction unsatisfying can go be pathologists or radiologists and be important members of the medical team that aren't directly having to deal with non-compliant patients or other unpleasant features of patient interaction. I find the notion that going in and working at a job that does not require much in the way of brainpower or education is some noble endeavor because she has found her "calling" to be a total joke. You think because she's enjoyed cooking for a few years, she can be certain that this is her "passion" or that she will over-the-long-run enjoy it more than medicine-- what a joke!

What does "deferred residency" have to do with anything? When she graduates in June, the Hopkins commencement book will have to say something for she is doing next year (and I doubt it will be "deferred residency"). When someone goes to law school after med school or decides to be a consultant or whatever, it gets listed as just that. So, I'm just curious how they are going to gussy up "chef."

 

[tofurious]

Your response is a near complete non-sequitor. People who find patient interaction unsatisfying can go be pathologists or radiologists

Your naivity is almost entertaining. Perhaps you have truly convinced yourself that one should place one's service to mankind before one's own happiness, but even the concepts of "lifestyle specialties" and "location residencies" would lead us to believe that no one else believes in that. I hope you don't/didn't say "I like to help people" during your interviews because you can be a nurse or even a X-ray film transporter if you want to help people. If you can't figure out why you want to be a physician other than being "an important part of the team", you are in the wrong profession.

Like I said, I would be very surprised if you have never met colleagues in med school who don't want to do it any more or if you've never considered it yourself. Given this is a residency forum, I imagine that you are at least in med school. And again, I am no longer surprised by the lack of credential of people who speak up in public forums.

 

[Loves_Chai]

Well Said Tofurious! I know lots of students who go through what you mentioned in your previous post.

WatchingWaiting, what this poster is saying is very true. Instead of arguing with him you should listen to him/her. What stage of your training are you at? Once, or if, you get to third year of medical school you will know exactly what tofurious is mentioning.

 

[Weil-Felix]

I have to admit, my initial reaction to that story was "Oh, my. What a total waste of resources!" Which to an extent, it is. BUT, after thinking about it for awhile, I can see how it might be easy for her to get "trapped" in this educational process for several years even after realizing that medicine was not for her.

Think about it. Many (if not most) MD/PhD programs will waive your tuition for at least part of medical school (through the MSTP funding program). So she starts med school, maybe to some extent to make her parents happy, but maybe she also THINKS that this is what she wants, too. She goes through the first two years and is thinking "Ugh, what have I gotten myself into..", but everyone tells her "Just wait, everything changes once you get to the clinical years." Which is true, but it doesn't always change in a good way for everyone. Plus, she is kind of stuck, because she has (most likely) already signed a contract prior to starting the MD/PhD program stating that she will continue the program, otherwise she will be responsible for repayment of tuition for the first two years. She she says, "What the heck. Maybe it'll get better. Maybe the reasearch years are where it's at." And then she starts the reasearch with the best of intentions, and realizes somewhere along the way that she hates it. But she still sticks with it because, hey, everyone says that the clinical years are sooo much better. Maybe it'll get better. Plus, she's already invested all this time and effort. She may as well see it through. But then BAM! Third year starts and guess what? It's not better, it's miserable! And there is nothing she can do, because if she quits now, she will have to pay back THREE years of med school, whereas if she keeps going, her tuition will remain waived. So she finishes grudgingly, and has no intention of a career in medicine, not even pathology or radiology because those are pretty specific, highly visual and intellectual areas which, quite frankly, do not appeal to everyone. (Although as a future pathologist, it's hard for me to imagine someone not liking this field!)

So yeah, it sucks and it's a waste. But you know, I think it's better to waste an education than to waste an entire lifetime doing something you despise. JMHO.

 

[tofurious]

I can see how it might be easy for her to get "trapped" in this educational process for several years even after realizing that medicine was not for her.

Empathy is a rare virtue and not something easy to develop. Compared with other posters, you my friend have demonstrated the capacity to be empathetic and I am sure your patients and colleagues will both appreciate it and benefit from it.

 

[Weil-Felix]

Empathy is a rare virtue and not something easy to develop. Compared with other posters, you my friend have demonstrated the capacity to be empathetic and I am sure your patients and colleagues will both appreciate it and benefit from it.

Aww, shucks...

 

[MedGeek42]

I don't know if any of you here have parents from another country, but I've noticed that immigrant parents frequently put a lot of pressure on their children to pursue certain careers. Medicine is a favorite because it provides a relatively high salary even without family connections (which are frequently necessary in business or even law) which immigrants would naturally lack in the new country. Certainly an old-boy network WILL help you in medicine (isn't half of Harvard Med legacies?), but you can make a living without one.

I'm not surprised. I've seen this so many times. Primarily with Chinese and Indians (used to be Jews a few decades ago). Hey, if she got into the MD-PhD at Hopkins she must be pretty dedicated. If she has the interpersonal skills--and I suspect she does--she may wind up doing quite well.

It is a bit of a waste of the taxpayers' money, though. Oh well.

 

[Newquagmire]

She should have kept this quiet instead of blabbering about it all over town. The NIH and Bob Siliciano at Hopkins WONT be pleased about this. The NIH rating of MD/PhD programs looks DIRECTLY at the attrition rate and the careers of MD/PhD alumni to rate the program.

You're funny.

 

[MacGyver]

Plus, she is kind of stuck, because she has (most likely) already signed a contract prior to starting the MD/PhD program stating that she will continue the program, otherwise she will be responsible for repayment of tuition for the first two years.

Thats not accurate. Hopkins and the vast majority (all?) of the MSTP programs specifically state that you are NOT required to pay back any tuition if you drop the program.

You can drop at any time and you owe nothing.

 

[Weil-Felix]

Thats not accurate. Hopkins and the vast majority (all?) of the MSTP programs specifically state that you are NOT required to pay back any tuition if you drop the program.

You can drop at any time and you owe nothing.

I stand corrected. However, the rest of what I said could very well be true. She may have gone into it with the best of intentions, and then realized after investing lots of time and effort that she had made a grave mistake. I know I was certainly very idealistic when I started med school, too. Although my outlook hasn't changed drastically, my priorities certainly have. I think it's reasonable to give this girl the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she just changed her priorities in life. It happens. I don't think that any of us can really make a judgement about her decision without knowing her.

 

[16846]

I don't see this situation as being any different from that of women who complete medical school and decide to have 15 kids instead of going through residency or that of a guy who decides to move to Tibet, becomes a monk, and dedicate his life to the study of Buddhist scripture after completing his medical training...

It's all personal decision, to each their own, who are we to sit in judgment of others and their choices?

Don't forget one of the golden rules in life: "Judge not lest ye be judged"

 

[SJBX]

Comments like this are why a lot of people think of doctors as pompous, arrogant, money grubbers. I hope you aren't pained to treat patients who are obese, homeless, or those who don't look like supermodels. Are you Donald Trump? Because this surely sounds like something that would spew out of his mouth...

her realize just how dumb her decision actually is and how painful and unsatisfying low-education labor actually is.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Comments like this are why a lot of people think of doctors as pompous, arrogant, money grubbers. I hope you aren't pained to treat patients who are obese, homeless, or those who don't look like supermodels. Are you Donald Trump? Because this surely sounds like something that would spew out of his mouth...

I just love how people have to resort to all kinds of ad hominem personal attacks (on someone they know next to nothing about) to "bolster" their argument. Fine, all labor is equally valuable, whether you are a day laborer or a surgeon you are just as valuable to society, and people should not respect physicians or professors for the intellectual rigors of such jobs and the fact that only a small fraction of society is capable of such jobs whereas a very large fraction of society is capable of running a restaurant.

 

[tofurious]

only a small fraction of society is capable of such jobs whereas a very large fraction of society is capable of running a restaurant.

Let me get down on my knees and give you the proper respect you deserve for being "capable of such jobs".

Wait, I think I am "capalbe of such jobs" too. As is the restauranteur. She has two doctorates, and I have two doctorates. Since she and I have shown you our intellectual rigor regardless of what useless life paths we choose, isn't it time for you to show us your "intellectual rigor"?

 

[NewGuyBob]

I'll tell you what happened! One day she came accross this old article:
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomf...ama-assn.org/amednews/2001/10/22/prsa1022.htm

and after reading it she said f_ck it! I have better things to do with my life. I know I almost did!
Believe me, for some weird reason (that's between me and my psychotherapist ) I love to dig in blood and sh_t on the wards and on the autopsy suit. But if it boils down to be at risk of going to jail, I would quit this field in a heart beat.

 

[theD.O.C.]

Well after reading that article, all I gots to say is good luck, follow your dreams and thank god this revelation didn't come to you seven years into your professional career (which btw might mean she is still a resident). Kudos for not listening to the haters and arm chair wanna be docs. If they think medicine is so freakin great then have them give me a ring and I will let them take call for me.

What we can all take away from Dr. Yu's example is that education is more than vocational training. It's purpose is to make us think in new ways and broaden our experiences as well as our knowledge base. Thus, Johns Hopkins should be darn proud for turning out such an independent and free thinker instead of yet another stepford cyber-doc to assault the towers of academia.

Let her example be a lesson to all of us that we owe it to ourselves to pursue our dreams no matter how incongruous or 'silly' it may seem to others. I apologize if this post is a bit rambly or strident, but Dr. Yu's story hits pretty darn close to home for me. Now if you all will excuse me, I have to go to my vocal lessons so that I can be the next American Idol.

theD.O.C.

 

[tofurious]

Now if you all will excuse me, I have to go to my vocal lessons so that I can be the next American Idol.

William Hung should go to med school.

 

[ALTorGT]

wlliam hung is awesome. i saw his video on the website. my god that man has balls.

 

[SJBX]

I never said nor implied that physicians, professors, and the like should not be respected. However, there is no need to belittle or look down on those who work in less "academic" areas.

I just love how people have to resort to all kinds of ad hominem personal attacks (on someone they know next to nothing about) to "bolster" their argument. Fine, all labor is equally valuable, whether you are a day laborer or a surgeon you are just as valuable to society, and people should not respect physicians or professors for the intellectual rigors of such jobs and the fact that only a small fraction of society is capable of such jobs whereas a very large fraction of society is capable of running a restaurant.

 

[SJBX]

You are wrong there....As a poster on another thread mentioned, the restaurant business is a very competitive businesses. Many restaurants end up failing after a few years, especially in this era of large restaurant chains. If you can survive the first few years, try 10-15. It takes a special person to really get a restaurant up and running successfully and be able to keep it that way for years on end.

I hear a similar argument all the time that "anyone can teach." (I am specifically referring to K-12, but it is true at any level.) This is completely false. There is a lot more to teaching than just knowing the subject. Being able to manage the classroom, work with each child, regardless of intellect, socio-economic status, personal motivation, and many other factors, is a huge challenge. If you can't do that part of the job, the most educated and intelligent person in the world can't begin to teach their students. Ask anyone who worked for the NYC Teaching Fellows, Teach for America, etc., and they'll tell you how teaching was much harder than what they ever thought it would be.

only a small fraction of society is capable of such jobs whereas a very large fraction of society is capable of running a restaurant.

 

[LTbulldogs]

What an ass!

 

[Hotsauce21]

good for her--if you gotta do something else, you should. nothings more nightmarish than continuing to do what you dont enjoy...

 

[E Z Daring]

Thank God people still choose to follow their hearts in this society. She's happy. I'm happy for her. Cased closed. The wasted resource issue is laughable... one person going through medical school and not becoming a doctor is truly insignficant in terms of all the "waste" (in terms of life, economics, resources) that the human species has caused since it's walked the planet.

Perspective, people, perspective. How many people have contracted AIDS since you've read through this thread? That's a "waste."

Changing your career is not.