MD/PHD vs. MD

[futuredoc00000]

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Hi all-

I would greatly appreciate some advice. I have been lucky enough to have been accepted to MD programs at two of my state schools this cycle. I am one year out of college and have been doing research since graduation. I have always been on the fence about doing an MD/PhD program but decided to not pursue one when I graduated. After this year working in research, however, I think that a PHD would be beneficial for my career path. I am interested in neurosurgery and biotech devices and believe doing a PhD in a lab investigating one of these devices could be extremely advantageous for my career and interests. I would continue to work in my lab (MRI neurology lab) and could collaborate with some neurosurgeons here on their projects to increase the number of publications I could be on and my exposure to the neurosurgical field.

Would you all suggest I withdraw my acceptances and apply again this upcoming cycle as an MD/PHD applicant? Or what would you suggest? Please let me know if there is any other information I can give that would be helpful. I appreciate any advice!!

 

[takeurmeds02]

No. It's hard to come back from that. Take you MD and run with it. Best case scenario, you can try to tack on the PhD portion while at your institution. If it's an option, you'll assuredly have to apply internally but obviously separately. Contact your schools as soon as you can to discuss your situation and what steps can be taken.

 

[KitKat30]

I was considering MD/PhD at one point and I found that most schools will allow you to apply to their MD/PhD program internally after you have already started medical school.

 

[eteshoe]

Please do not turn down the acceptance. Also, I'll just say this straight up as someone who is on a ~15 yr training path to being an academic medical oncologist, I'm not sure a PhD would be the best thing to pursue with your neurosurgery aspirations. You'd be looking at 4 yrs med school + 4-6 yrs PhD + 5 yrs general surgery + 2-3 neuro fellowship. Your time would be better spent tacking on research time during med school and during fellowship or going for a masters at your institution.

 

[breezy16]

I was considering MD/PhD at one point and I found that most schools will allow you to apply to their MD/PhD program internally after you have already started medical school.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do not withdraw.

 

[padfootmd]

Hi all-

I would greatly appreciate some advice. I have been lucky enough to have been accepted to MD programs at two of my state schools this cycle. I am one year out of college and have been doing research since graduation. I have always been on the fence about doing an MD/PhD program but decided to not pursue one when I graduated. After this year working in research, however, I think that a PHD would be beneficial for my career path. I am interested in neurosurgery and biotech devices and believe doing a PhD in a lab investigating one of these devices could be extremely advantageous for my career and interests. I would continue to work in my lab (MRI neurology lab) and could collaborate with some neurosurgeons here on their projects to increase the number of publications I could be on and my exposure to the neurosurgical field.

Would you all suggest I withdraw my acceptances and apply again this upcoming cycle as an MD/PHD applicant? Or what would you suggest? Please let me know if there is any other information I can give that would be helpful. I appreciate any advice!!

See if you can apply internally to MD/PhD programs at the schools you've been accepted at

 

[Petrichor1]

I don't think you are aware of what an MD/PhD program entails. Do not push your luck, you should attend the MD acceptance and run with it. Plenty of people who wanted research have supplemented it with fellowships and other degrees. The dual degree is really for those who are superstars in the arena of research. Anything short of that in this funding climate is a sure disappointment.

 

[Psai]

man phds are a dime a dozen
there's little point in getting one now when it's so hard to get enough funding to start a decent lab

 

[akwho]

Stick w/ MD homie. If you want to do research you might as well get paid an MD salary while you do it.

Gap yr -> 1 yr
MD -> 4yrs
NSGY -> 7yrs
Fellowship -> 1yr
= Attending at 35. Add 4-5 yrs for a phD -> attending at 39 or 40. That just sucks and is frankly unnecessary. Also if you count the opportunity cost of losing 4-5 years as an attending neurosurgeon, you are probably talking about 2.8 million.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

4 yrs med school + 4-6 yrs PhD + 5 yrs general surgery + 2-3 neuro fellowship. Your time would be better spe

Neurosurg is its own residency. 7 years without fellowship. Just for your info.

Yeah OP just do MD. There is no law precluding you from research without the PhD, especially in such a research heavy field like NS. Two of those seven years are basically research years I believe.

 

[eteshoe]

Neurosurg is its own residency. 7 years without fellowship. Just for your info.

Yeah OP just do MD. There is no law precluding you from research without the PhD, especially in such a research heavy field like NS. Two of those seven years are basically research years I believe.

Thanks for the info. I'm not too familiar with all the surgical stuff (except that it tends to be quite a bit longer than IM lol)

 

[futuredoc00000]

Thank you everyone for the advice! I'll stick with my acceptances and then decide whether I want to do a PhD and apply through my institution

 

[mistafab]

Hi all-

I would greatly appreciate some advice. I have been lucky enough to have been accepted to MD programs at two of my state schools this cycle. I am one year out of college and have been doing research since graduation. I have always been on the fence about doing an MD/PhD program but decided to not pursue one when I graduated. After this year working in research, however, I think that a PHD would be beneficial for my career path. I am interested in neurosurgery and biotech devices and believe doing a PhD in a lab investigating one of these devices could be extremely advantageous for my career and interests. I would continue to work in my lab (MRI neurology lab) and could collaborate with some neurosurgeons here on their projects to increase the number of publications I could be on and my exposure to the neurosurgical field.

Would you all suggest I withdraw my acceptances and apply again this upcoming cycle as an MD/PHD applicant? Or what would you suggest? Please let me know if there is any other information I can give that would be helpful. I appreciate any advice!!

Neurosurgeons can do as much research as they want.

No need for a PhD, there will be future devices in biotech that will have their own learning curve. Spending time to investigating one instead of starting your residency might just be precious time down the drain.

 

[Lucca]

Thanks for the info. I'm not too familiar with all the surgical stuff (except that it tends to be quite a bit longer than IM lol)

Well, to be fair 7 years of NSG is not that different from 6 years IM + Heme/Onc

 

[eteshoe]

Well, to be fair 7 years of NSG is not that different from 6 years IM + Heme/Onc

Yea it's not too different, but in my mind having to stand in a operating room for that many years sounds a lot more miserable lol

 

[Psai]

Well, to be fair 7 years of NSG is not that different from 6 years IM + Heme/Onc

Big difference in getting to the hospital at 430 vs at 6

 

[MaxPlancker]

The director of the MD-PhD program at my future school has said that the only reason to pursue an MD-PhD is if you miss research so much that you can't imagine going through med school without devoting huge chunks of time to research. As chair of a NIH grant scoring section, he said having the additional PhD provides no bonus per se in terms of getting funding. I largely agree especially if you come in with an extensive research background. I think the only other benefit would be if you are trying to switch fields then learning the techniques etc in that field may be very helpful later.

I was also on the fence about whether to add the PhD and went with just MD for now. My main reasoning was that I feel no different from a senior grad student/early postdoc in my current lab (and also told this by my PI) and the only difference is having the lettering behind your name. I'm thinking about applying through the internal program since I do miss research; check out your school's specifics as they do usually have an internal process (sometimes with funding for the remaining MD years!). Part of me says YOLO just do it! Do what you want, 4 years is mehhhh but you gotta be practical!

As others have said, going to NS with an MD/PhD puts you around 40 which is personally way too long a route. However, there ARE people that get the MD/PhD and go to NS but for very academic careers(for example, ~half of the MGH NS residents are MD/PhDs).

 

[terra330]

You can do research without the PhD (my PI was an MD-only researcher in fact), and if you really want the MD/PhD, you can usually apply to it after you start your classes too.

 

[Lucca]

OP you should read the stickied threads in the physician scientist forum on becoming a physician scientist through different routes. If you want to be an independent researcher, the training has to come from somewhere -- in other words, you don't just "do research without the PhD" without, at some point in your career, receiving extensive/sufficient training in the discipline you want to study. There are many paths to getting the training you need for the research you want to do. Sometimes one of those paths will involve getting a PhD but it doesn't have to. There are pros and cons to each, obviously, and science in general is a risky business right now but only you can decide what is best for you.