MD pursuing Dentistry

[1hotdoctor]

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I am new to SDN and excited to finally join. I have reading your very helpful postings for the last month since I decided to leave Medicine and pursue Dentistry. I am studying for the DAT right now but I am not sure if I am studing the right material.

I have DAT Achiever, Kaplan questions (Paper/PDF Format), Dr. Ferdinand's "The Gold Standard" DVD's.

Could you please tell me how relevant these materials are and whether or not I should take on other study tools.

I am taking the DAT around the end of October and have already submitted my AADSAS application. I have applied to 12 schools.

I appreciate greatly any help you can give me. Thanks!

 

[z123]

I haven't used the Acheiver...but from posts it seems to have been very helpful.

I used Topscore...it's has 3 practice exams...I thought it was a good way to experience the testing environment. (Also, the scores I got on Topscore were quite similar to my real DAT scores...so that why I'd suggest using this. It'll tell you if you're studying the right stuff and how much harder you need to study (w/ your scores).

For the science sections: I used AP & SAT review books (public library)...it's nothing too indepth...they ask a little bit of everything on the surface...nothing too detailed. (They do ask a few plant questions, also don't memorize the Kreb Cycle or anything like that..Know the basic idea...you'll be good to go.)

For PAT: I really liked Kaplan (the blue book), Cliff (Just this section), and Barron (Just this section) (Go to B & N: read them & practice there)

Basically, the DAT asks a little bit about everything...so spread your attention and be sure to review all the topics covered in each subject...

 

[1hotdoctor]

Dear 123z,

I appreciate your tips and I will consider all of your suggestions.

Let me get your opinion on something else. I will tell you a bit more about myself and my situation:

Overall GPA undergrat: 3.74
Science GPA: 3.9
MD degree and all USMLE's passed
2 years of dental assisting and other dental knowledge-related experience
AADSAS application submitted 1 week ago
Great Letters of Recommendation from undergrat professors
Great Personal Statement
Applied to 12 schools: AZ,BU,HOW,MEH,NSU,TEMP,COL,UK,UL,NJDS,UMKC,USC


Given my status, do you think that if I do decent on the DAT at the end of October, that I still have a chance of getting accepted to any one of these schools?

Thank you.

1hotdoctor

 

[Montserrat]

One head of admissions I spoke t,o likened the granting of interviews to risk assessment protocol. Given that you've been through the rigors of demanding curricula and came out on top (with your MD degree and boards passed), I can't see how you'd be a liability if granted admission. That said, if you get at least an 18 on your AA and don't tank any section of the DAT, I think your chances of being admitted (even if applying later) are far better than my own. Hope that eases your concerns.

 

[s0chon02]

If you don't mind me asking, what was your reason for leaving medicine(i assume you are?) and deciding on dentistry instead? I'm sure this would be a question that admissions committe would love to ask..

 

[1hotdoctor]

My reasons for leaving medicine were intolerable politics and unbearable bureaucracy. Don't get me wrong though, I love medicine and I wouldn't give up the knowledge and skills I have learned for the world, but it's just that my personality and my values were incompatible with what medicine unfortunately has become. Many of my colleagues did just fine and I am sure will continure to do just fine, but I, despite all efforts, couldn't do it.

Many of my family members are dentists and many more hygienists or dental assistants and what they have expressed to me about the field and the life style is what attracted me to this career and of course the fact that Dentistry is, at least not just yet, too politicized.

Anyway, I think I will be much happier as a Dentist than would have ever been as a medical doctor.

Hope this answers your question.

1hotdoctor

 

[1hotdoctor]

Hey, thank you so much for your very kind and insightful response to my posting. That was very heart-warming indeed. I hope your are right man!!

What you said makes perfect sense. I have already been through a path that was much more brutal and painful than dental school will ever be. I know this by just talking to a number of our friends and relatives who are dentists. So, what will a DAT prove to them about me that passing medicine boards would not. What does GC and OC have to do with what I will be doing both in dental school and thereafter? I have taken cources that go way beyond even the most relevant cources in dental school like anatomy and pathology which, you would think, should provide them with a more solid proof of my abilities than how I perform on a test which has to do with stuff I took back in undergrat years ago.

Anyway, I guess the DAT is what they have chosen as a standard way of assessing everyone who wants to enter the field and that's just the way it is.

Hopefully, I will do well on the exam and hopefully I am not too terribly late in applying and sending my official DAT results to all the schools.

Thank you for your insight and thoughts. I really appreciate it.

1hotdoctor

 

[TheWiredNerv]

I thought MDs were permitted to pursue oral surgery?

 

[Meatwad]

I thought MDs were permitted to pursue oral surgery?

One or two schools do it, but it is almost never done.

 

[Montserrat]

Anyway, I think I will be much happier as a Dentist than would have ever been as a medical doctor.
1hotdoctor

About medicine's politics, I saw quite a bit of it in the two years of medical research I did at HUP at Penn. I can definitely see why some people would find it unsatisfying.

I'm sure you'll do fine on the DAT. Having taken it a month ago, I'd say take a good number of practice exams and don't shank the QR section like I did. There's a thread somewhere in here, dedicated to our collective inability to count beyond our fingers.

 

[Meatwad]

Hey, thank you so much for your very kind and insightful response to my posting. That was very heart-warming indeed. I hope your are right man!!

What you said makes perfect sense. I have already been through a path that was much more brutal and painful than dental school will ever be. I know this by just talking to a number of our friends and relatives who are dentists. So, what will a DAT prove to them about me that passing medicine boards would not. What does GC and OC have to do with what I will be doing both in dental school and thereafter? I have taken cources that go way beyond even the most relevant cources in dental school like anatomy and pathology which, you would think, should provide them with a more solid proof of my abilities than how I perform on a test which has to do with stuff I took back in undergrat years ago.

Anyway, I guess the DAT is what they have chosen as a standard way of assessing everyone who wants to enter the field and that's just the way it is.

Hopefully, I will do well on the exam and hopefully I am not too terribly late in applying and sending my official DAT results to all the schools.

Thank you for your insight and thoughts. I really appreciate it.

1hotdoctor

Hmm, wouldn't be so sure about that. As a dental student, not only do you take all the medical school courses, but you supplement that with lab classes. Med students are usually in class from morning till ~12 at lots of schools, where dental students stay much later than that. I think the stress of not only studying basic sciences but practical labs doesn't sound like something I'd blow off. Don't come off as cocky and entitled when you interview. Also, be prepared to defend your decision to leave medicine. Don't talk down about the profession, no one will be impressed. You are probably at a disadvantage because schools may be concerned that you will become disenchanted with dentistry, like you did with medicine, and leave before you finish.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, making sure you've covered all your bases.

 

[z3u2]

i think there's politics in almost any fields. But "how much" really depends on the people/work conditions, not the job itself.
if you don't find yourself enjoying in a current work place, maybe try changing to another one?

 

[1hotdoctor]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the feedback. This is helping me put things in perspective. What I did forgot to mention was that I wanted to become a dentist ever since my freshman year in high school all the way until the end of my third year of undergrat. Then I happened to associate with a whole bunch of MD's who convinced me that medicine is the way to go and that it is so wonderful. That's when I changed my whole plan and went after medicine. Again, I will tell you that I loved the field and all the opportunities one has in that field to serve and help his fellow humans, but unfortunately the practice of medicine today is just not what it used to be. It just isn't so clean cut or simple anymore. I am aware that there is politics intermingled in every field and everything thing these days, but I guess I just couldn't handle seeing so much of it when it comes to the health and well-being of people. To me that is not something that should be played with or politicised.

I also know that dental school won't be a walk in the park, even for someone who has been through medical school, but all I was saying is that it will simply appear easier and more pleasant than maybe for someone fresh out of college. And believe me the last thing I am is cocky. I am sorry if the way I worded things in my previous post made me sound over-confidant or cocky.

I am just praying that I do well on the DAT and get in somewhere for 2008.

Thanks everyone again for your thoughts.

1hotdoctor

 

[TheWiredNerv]

May I ask what state you were becomming a physician in? I know in New York, a great deal of you time is deticated to just insurance and many doctors wish they did not practice here . One of my biology professors left the medical world for political reasons as well. She said she didn't like how the pharmacutical companies would give kick backs to physicians who perscribed their drugs.

 

[Montserrat]

There was an article on it in the Economist quite a while back, of shifting and shortage of certain specialists in the eastern US due to overly politicized insurance and liability measures, as well as the nature of drug patenting. It's tough to not be able to practice your craft in the same stat where your children and family are situated. The article mentioned that OB's in NYC had it the toughest, and that the best OB in NY had been sued 12 times. There was also an account of ortho's who originally situated themselves in NY, uprooted themselves and are now working in Ohio for reduced malpractice insurance costs, visiting their families every other week. The politics extend beyond corporate funding for medical research grants, kickbacks, or even just wild, willy nilly advertisement of certain drugs to consumers. Patients ask/demand such drugs from their doctors, because they think it's the newest, hottest item. Doctors on the other hand, try to explain that the new drugs are much more expensive, with little enhanced efficacy in pharmacologic action. In the end, patients lose, price level for drugs and treatment rise, production of cheaper alternatives becomes a financial liability instead of cost effective option, and doctors get to watch things go round and round. There's nothing wrong about profiting from a business venture, but some people mind the tactics and results more than others.

 

[Mrbubbles]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the feedback. This is helping me put things in perspective. What I did forgot to mention was that I wanted to become a dentist ever since my freshman year in high school all the way until the end of my third year of undergrat. Then I happened to associate with a whole bunch of MD's who convinced me that medicine is the way to go and that it is so wonderful. That's when I changed my whole plan and went after medicine. Again, I will tell you that I loved the field and all the opportunities one has in that field to serve and help his fellow humans, but unfortunately the practice of medicine today is just not what it used to be. It just isn't so clean cut or simple anymore. I am aware that there is politics intermingled in every field and everything thing these days, but I guess I just couldn't handle seeing so much of it when it comes to the health and well-being of people. To me that is not something that should be played with or politicised.

I also know that dental school won't be a walk in the park, even for someone who has been through medical school, but all I was saying is that it will simply appear easier and more pleasant than maybe for someone fresh out of college. And believe me the last thing I am is cocky. I am sorry if the way I worded things in my previous post made me sound over-confidant or cocky.

I am just praying that I do well on the DAT and get in somewhere for 2008.

Thanks everyone again for your thoughts.

1hotdoctor

i am scared for you. i know u think it might be 2 ur advantage that u experienced med school, but i had volunteer work @ a hospital becuz i also wanted to be a doctor... but i didn't even write that on my aps becuz i was SO afraid that the interviewers were gonna gun me down and say "SO WHY NOT MED SCHOOL? u couldn't handle the pressure? ur grades were NOT high enough to u only turned to dentistry" i've heard ALOT of people get asked that questioned cuz they volunteered at a general hospital. i'd say speak to a counselor or go to a mock trial that many universities have..and get their opinion. good luck smartie!

 

[Meatwad]

May I ask what state you were becomming a physician in? I know in New York, a great deal of you time is deticated to just insurance and many doctors wish they did not practice here . One of my biology professors left the medical world for political reasons as well. She said she didn't like how the pharmacutical companies would give kick backs to physicians who perscribed their drugs.

This is not limited to any state; medicine around the country is plagued by insurance companies refusing to pay for procedures, medication, etc. All these things are hurting the system, in every state.

There was an article in Newsday a few weeks ago regarding malpractice rates; pediatrics was the lowest at around $30,000 per year, whereas OB/GYN and Neurosurgery were very high, around $200,000 per year I believe. Ridiculous.

 

[student1985]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the feedback. This is helping me put things in perspective. What I did forgot to mention was that I wanted to become a dentist ever since my freshman year in high school all the way until the end of my third year of undergrat. Then I happened to associate with a whole bunch of MD's who convinced me that medicine is the way to go and that it is so wonderful. That's when I changed my whole plan and went after medicine. Again, I will tell you that I loved the field and all the opportunities one has in that field to serve and help his fellow humans, but unfortunately the practice of medicine today is just not what it used to be. It just isn't so clean cut or simple anymore. I am aware that there is politics intermingled in every field and everything thing these days, but I guess I just couldn't handle seeing so much of it when it comes to the health and well-being of people. To me that is not something that should be played with or politicised.

I also know that dental school won't be a walk in the park, even for someone who has been through medical school, but all I was saying is that it will simply appear easier and more pleasant than maybe for someone fresh out of college. And believe me the last thing I am is cocky. I am sorry if the way I worded things in my previous post made me sound over-confidant or cocky.

I am just praying that I do well on the DAT and get in somewhere for 2008.

Thanks everyone again for your thoughts.

1hotdoctor

It's unfortunate that medicine has been plauged by the politics and bureaucracies, especially when you work in the hospital. You are also likely to encounter politics in dentistry, but with the overwhelming majority of dentists working privately in their clinics, it's certainly not on the same level as medicine.

In my opinion, your background as a medical doctor will help you in terms of your DAT preparation because you have taken some of the hardest standarized exams already (MCAT, USMLE). Just rock your DATs (aim for 19-20 AA and 19-20 TS), and I'm certain that you will get interviews with subsequent acceptances.

Also, as someone mentioned, be prepared to get grilled during your interviews in regards to your career change, as admissions officers are always weary of potential "drop-outs". They hurt themselves, but most importantly, the school. However, I think you've made a good choice and hopefully you will find dentistry a more sutiable fit. 👍

Lastly, in terms of DAT preparation, here are the sources which I used:
-Kaplan materials (Review Notes book, flashcards, online subject tests)
-Campbell's Biology book (If you dont want to read this, use Schaum's Outline for Biology)
-DAT Achiever & TopScore (Use these for practice and simulation of the DAT, NOT as study materials. They are meant to test your knowledge, not teach you the material)
-Barron's DAT Prep (Good for Math and PAT tips)


As far as where to use these materials:
Bio- Use all the Kaplan stuff and Schaum's
Chem- Use the Kaplan book
Orgo- Use the Kaplan book
Math- If you're good at it, use DAT Achiever & TopScore for practice
Reading- Practice using DAT Achiever & TopScore
PAT- Practice using DAT Achiever (really helpful) and TopScore. Barron's DAT prep gives good tips, too.


Good luck with the career change.

 

[1hotdoctor]

Dear Student1985,

Thank you for your very helpful points and tips. I appreciate your help and will follow your advice.

I will do my best to prepare in the short time I have and just wish for the best outcome. I wish I was more fresh on these materials like I was when I was in undergrat, but unfortunately that was 12 years ago.

Thanks again.

 

[Meatwad]

I'm curious, how are you planning to fund your education? The average American med school grad (are you an AMG?) is around $250k in debt. If you are in this kind of debt, I'm assuming you'll only be able to get private loans. Go to a school like NYU, UoP, USC, etc., tuition + living expenses, you'll be another $300k in the hole; over half a million in debt!

If this comes up in an interview, and you still want in, I suppose that will prove your love of dentistry. Because as a GP, starting as an associate, it'd take you an amazingly large amount of time to pay that off.

 

[dentaldentist]

I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are a few dental schools that will allow students with an MD degree advanced standing so dental school is only 3 years instead of 4. I know Columbia has a program and I think there are a few others. It would probably be worth applying for in your case - save you a year of the basic science courses you already covered in Medical school. Here's columbia's information:

http://dental.columbia.edu/education/physicians_meds.htm

Good luck with the career change. I changed careers to dentistry as well (although, not from medicine), and I definitly think my work experience and graduate school was seen as a positive in my application. As long as you can show dentistry is where you want to be, I think you have an excellent shot at admission.

 

[1hotdoctor]

dentaldenstis,

thank you so very much for your kind words and the info. I will look into this and see where it leads me. That would be wonderful to not have to do the whole 4 years.

Thanks.

 

[1hotdoctor]

I just received my acceptance package from NOVA!!! I am so excited!!

I had my interview on Feb 6th.

Status:

-GPA: 3.85
-PCAT: 78
-No direct pharmacy experience
-Have an MD degree - Changing careers!
-Good recomm letters
-B.S. in Biology (graduated 1996)

Thank you for all the help you gave me on this site. I am ever grateful to SDN.

Good luck to all of you!!

 

[tinman831]

Congratulations! It's always nice to hear positive stories like these.

I just received my acceptance package from NOVA!!! I am so excited!!

I had my interview on Feb 6th.

Status:

-GPA: 3.85
-PCAT: 78
-No direct pharmacy experience
-Have an MD degree - Changing careers!
-Good recomm letters
-B.S. in Biology (graduated 1996)

Thank you for all the help you gave me on this site. I am ever grateful to SDN.

Good luck to all of you!!

 

[eldirty]

Congrats ... how did you come out on the DAT?

 

[sajjy]

i am totally lost!!!!!!!
MD---DAT---PCAT

did u get an acceptance to dental school or pharmacy school?

but congrats for wherever u got in....

 

[eldirty]

good question? what is going on here

 

[sajjy]

I am new to SDN and excited to finally join. I have reading your very helpful postings for the last month since I decided to leave Medicine and pursue Dentistry. I am studying for the DAT right now but I am not sure if I am studing the right material.

I have DAT Achiever, Kaplan questions (Paper/PDF Format), Dr. Ferdinand's "The Gold Standard" DVD's.

Could you please tell me how relevant these materials are and whether or not I should take on other study tools.

I am taking the DAT around the end of October and have already submitted my AADSAS application. I have applied to 12 schools.

I appreciate greatly any help you can give me. Thanks!

Dear 123z,

I appreciate your tips and I will consider all of your suggestions.

Let me get your opinion on something else. I will tell you a bit more about myself and my situation:

Overall GPA undergrat: 3.74
Science GPA: 3.9
MD degree and all USMLE's passed
2 years of dental assisting and other dental knowledge-related experience
AADSAS application submitted 1 week ago
Great Letters of Recommendation from undergrat professors
Great Personal Statement
Applied to 12 schools: AZ,BU,HOW,MEH,NSU,TEMP,COL,UK,UL,NJDS,UMKC,USC


Given my status, do you think that if I do decent on the DAT at the end of October, that I still have a chance of getting accepted to any one of these schools?

Thank you.

1hotdoctor

I just received my acceptance package from NOVA!!! I am so excited!!

I had my interview on Feb 6th.

Status:

-GPA: 3.85
-PCAT: 78
-No direct pharmacy experience
-Have an MD degree - Changing careers!
-Good recomm letters
-B.S. in Biology (graduated 1996)

Thank you for all the help you gave me on this site. I am ever grateful to SDN.

Good luck to all of you!!

😕😕😕😕😕😕
SERIOUSLY DAT WAS A LOT EASIER THAN TO FIGURE OUT ALL THIS!!!!

 

[eldirty]

haha ... this thread should be moved to the SDN mystery section

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

I thought MDs were permitted to pursue oral surgery?

They are.. Meatwad is right that only a small handful of OMFS provide combined DDS/OMFS residency programs. But it is still an option.