MD Schools Without CBL

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

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Bruh you attend a school that is ran by the branch of our government that organizes and runs MASSIVE military exercises... Can you imagine for a second that most medical schools can not organize/communicate as well as our public servants in the US military?

If you think the government can organize things well, you’ve clearly never worked for it.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

If you think the government can organize things well, you’ve clearly never worked for it.

worked for the government, can confirm.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

If you think the government can organize things well, you’ve clearly never worked for it.

Don't think it was your intent, but a bit of a straw-man no? I stated a specific section of our government... And yes, even with their inefficiencies, no organization (private or public) can match the coordination of our military.

You go to their medical school... The rest of us go to USPS School of Medicine and partake in their PBLs.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Don't think it was your intent, but a bit of a straw-man no? I stated a specific section of our government... And yes, even with their inefficiencies, no organization (private or public) can match the coordination of our military.

You go to their medical school... The rest of us go to USPS School of Medicine and partake in their PBLs.

I'm not setting up a straw man. Your argument was literally that the government, and especially the military, can organize things way better than civilian organizations. While this is true often on a grand scale, it can be shockingly untrue at the granular level. Our PBL sessions are great because of the way the curriculum for that course is designed, which has nothing to do with it being a military school other than the fact that most of the instructors are military. In fact, half of our module directors are civilians. There's no reason a civilian school couldn't do exactly what we do in these PBL sessions.

 

[mistafab]

Required “academic” projects for 2-3 months in med schools 4th year. I prefer this option because it attempts to kill a few birds with one stone. The first, is 1) the problem of fourth year. The second, is 2) 4th year students need flexibility during interview season (usually 2-3 months). The third, is 3) how to solve unique problems and learn solutions for yourself.

Do you have a better idea?

 

[Med Ed]

The third, is 3) how to solve unique problems and learn solutions for yourself.

Don't you think it would be a little better to practice this before third year?

 

[mistafab]

Absolutely. I am in favor of requiring all med students to be involved with research, QI, or curriculum reform starting day 1 to cultivate the practices earlier. Luckily, there are less academically-biased people in medicine than me so it is unlikely I would be able to implement such a system at a med school in the near future.

In a decade perhaps...

Don't you think it would be a little better to practice this before third year?

 

[hallowmann]

This thread really amazes me. Literally everything talked about against PBL is stuff that was not how my curriculum was run. The truth is that none of you have an issue with PBL, you have an issue with poorly designed and poorly developed PBL. That's like saying you hate all clinical rotations because the clinical rotations at your school are nothing but shadowing. It has nothing to do with clinical rotations and everything to do with the crappy way that rotations are set up at your school.

The fact that so few of you are even able to comprehend a scenario it which this is done well is such a testament to how poorly planned PBL is at your school. It was likely created to check a box rather than actually teach you anything.

 

[Med Ed]

Absolutely. I am in favor of requiring all med students to be involved with research, QI, or curriculum reform starting day 1 to cultivate the practices earlier. Luckily, there are less academically-biased people in medicine than me so it is unlikely I would be able to implement such a system at a med school in the near future.

In a decade perhaps...

We seem to be talking about two somewhat different things. Go back 40 years and the standard medical school curriculum started with 2 years of rote memorization (even worse than now). At the beginning of third year students went to the wards never having seen a real patient before, and with often under- or entirely undeveloped history/physical skills (these were generally expected to be picked up from residents in the hospital). Hence, students were left integrate all the decontextualized information they had received on their own. That's not to say it didn't work, but it was probably much more difficult than it had to be. The clinical training environment was also much different back then.

Along came PBL, which originated in Canada and came to the US in 1975. If one concedes that decently written PBL case mirrors an actual clinical encounter, then PBL is essentially a simulation exercise. Like everything else in the curriculum, you tend to get out what you put in, but it's an opportunity to do some real cognitive work around clinical scenarios before being put into an actual clinic.

Doing research is great, as the scientific method is a huge part of medical practice, but transfer is still involved. If the goal is to get students accustomed to reasoning through clinical situations then case-driven approaches are the most obvious and direct.