MD to other health care professional

[nifedipine]

Does anyone know if / how hard or easy it is to become certified as a different health care professional as a physician?

In particular, become a nurse, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, dentist, nurse anesthetist, pharmacist, medical assistant, radiology assistant, EMT, paramedic, pathology assistant, medical technologist, PT/OT, etc.

How much additional training would it be, does it matter if you have completed internship or not, does it matter if you are FMG/IMG/carribean/DO or not, etc. Just want to compare different tracks thanks

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[bradt9881]

Does anyone know if / how hard or easy it is to become certified as a different health care professional as a physician?

In particular, become a nurse, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, dentist, nurse anesthetist, pharmacist, medical assistant, radiology assistant, EMT, paramedic, pathology assistant, medical technologist, PT/OT, etc.

How much additional training would it be, does it matter if you have completed internship or not, does it matter if you are FMG/IMG/carribean/DO or not, etc. Just want to compare different tracks thanks

To be a physician assistant, you have to graduate from a PA program and take the PANCE to become certified. This would apply for a med school grad as well....

 

[fab4fan]

To be a physician assistant, you have to graduate from a PA program and take the PANCE to become certified. This would apply for a med school grad as well....

Ditto for a nurse.

 

[nifedipine]

Ditto for a nurse.

Can you take PANCE or NCLEX as a MD/DO/foreign grad?

 

[fab4fan]

Can you take PANCE or NCLEX as a MD/DO/foreign grad?

You can't take NCLEX-RN without having graduated from an accredited RN program. Period.

(The bigger question is, why on Earth would you want to be a nurse if you've graduated from medical school?)

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

Perhaps a doc from the Philippines?

 

[bradt9881]

Can you take PANCE or NCLEX as a MD/DO/foreign grad?

As long as the FMG attends a US PA school and passes, yes. Nothing can get around that requirement.

 

[nifedipine]

As long as the FMG attends a US PA school and passes, yes. Nothing can get around that requirement.

Is there no way to 'fast-track' or enroll in a PA or RN program and exam out of many coursework?

Does it matter if you are a US MD or DO instead?

For example dentists who become doctors only take the last 2 years of medical school. (50% courses opt out)

So can a doctor not just take the last 2 years of nursing or PA school?

 

[BlurredFocus]

There is no way to fast track any medical profession. If you want to medical school and are an MD and you want to enter another field, go to school for it. No skipping steps. Your medical education does not prepare you for other medical professions - they're all very different.

 

[justtesting]

Is there no way to 'fast-track' or enroll in a PA or RN program and exam out of many coursework?

Does it matter if you are a US MD or DO instead?

For example dentists who become doctors only take the last 2 years of medical school. (50% courses opt out)

So can a doctor not just take the last 2 years of nursing or PA school?

do you realize that nursing school is only 18-24 months? some are faster- my university has a 14 month accelerated BSN program for students with a previous bachelors. typically, a four year BSN is usually two years of pre reqs/generals and two years of actual program, so yes, i imagine you would probably not have to do much of the first two years (assuming you probably already have anatomy, physiology, chemistry, social sciences, english, history etc) i read in one of your other forums you might be interested in less responsibility for equal the money that a family practic doc makes. i realize this sounds crazy to a lot of people, but its true... CRNAs for example make more than a lot of physicians in half the time. even regular travel or agency nurses with associates or bachelors can make 80k/yr without breaking a sweat (texas advertises $40-$55 an hour for agency ICU nurses). most people dont realize that there are many family practice/internal medicine/pediatric physicians that barely make more than 80k/yr with a lot more risk and responsibility. the local UPS driven in my neighborhood makes more driving UPS trucks than he did when he owned his own clinic as a family practice doc. with a lot less stress. and a lot less hours. go figure.
youre definately taking the long route but if you want a job working three days a week and earning a decent salary with less responsibility than a physician, just find a quick nursing program that will get you in and out in 18 months. i'm sure you'll be the first ever!

 

[bradt9881]

Is there no way to 'fast-track' or enroll in a PA or RN program and exam out of many coursework?

Does it matter if you are a US MD or DO instead?

For example dentists who become doctors only take the last 2 years of medical school. (50% courses opt out)

So can a doctor not just take the last 2 years of nursing or PA school?

What part of "nothing can get around that requirement" is so hard to understand?

 

[tantrum]

do you realize that nursing school is only 18-24 months? some are faster- my university has a 14 month accelerated BSN program for students with a previous bachelors. typically, a four year BSN is usually two years of pre reqs/generals and two years of actual program, so yes, i imagine you would probably not have to do much of the first two years (assuming you probably already have anatomy, physiology, chemistry, social sciences, english, history etc) i read in one of your other forums you might be interested in less responsibility for equal the money that a family practic doc makes. i realize this sounds crazy to a lot of people, but its true... CRNAs for example make more than a lot of physicians in half the time. even regular travel or agency nurses with associates or bachelors can make 80k/yr without breaking a sweat (texas advertises $40-$55 an hour for agency ICU nurses). most people dont realize that there are many family practice/internal medicine/pediatric physicians that barely make more than 80k/yr with a lot more risk and responsibility. the local UPS driven in my neighborhood makes more driving UPS trucks than he did when he owned his own clinic as a family practice doc. with a lot less stress. and a lot less hours. go figure.
youre definately taking the long route but if you want a job working three days a week and earning a decent salary with less responsibility than a physician, just find a quick nursing program that will get you in and out in 18 months. i'm sure you'll be the first ever!

It's true that he can be an RN in 2 years, however if he cannot make it as an MD, even a CRNA (which requires a BSN and ICU experience) is not a slam dunk.

 

[Farmer Jane]

Some of your credits might transfer to the uni where you work on a nursing degree, but some may not, and you still have to meet all the requirements of a nursing degree.

But mostly I suspect there are bigger issues at play for anyone asking that question.

 

[237696]

Any chance this is a phony straw issue... designed to elicit responses which could be used against the PA/NP advocates for advanced standing or "shortcuts" to physician training?

 

[justtesting]

Any chance this is a phony straw issue... designed to elicit responses which could be used against the PA/NP advocates for advanced standing or "shortcuts" to physician training?

possible but doubtful. My guess is that the op is a foreign med school student (probably Carib) and is just now realizing how much easier life can be as a mid level practitionerwith much less stress. Many people go through med school because they originally believe it will be a great career and a great lifestyle only to find out they will be working their butts off, making barely more than a good rn/np and will have to deal with gold diggers trying to sue them for any small mistake. The general public might not understand why a doc would ever want to be a nurse but in reality there are many reasons a doc would envy the lifestyle of a nurse.

 

[ULRN]

You can't take NCLEX-RN without having graduated from an accredited RN program. Period.

Untrue, I know many people who were docs in the Philippines and they only needed to take NCLEX-RN to become an RN

 

[nifedipine]

Untrue, I know many people who were docs in the Philippines and they only needed to take NCLEX-RN to become an RN

Can you please detail this?


Also we have been only talking about RN NP and PA but if you know about the others please give advice too.

 

[tantrum]

Untrue, I know many people who were docs in the Philippines and they only needed to take NCLEX-RN to become an RN

I call that as a bogus claim. If that loophole existed a few years ago, that is definitely closed by now.

 

[bradt9881]

Can you please detail this?


Also we have been only talking about RN NP and PA but if you know about the others please give advice too.

http://www.nccpa.net/Resources_faqs.aspx

See above.....

 

[237696]

Florida International University has a one-year program that leads to a BSN for foreign-trained physicians. It allows them to waive traitional BSN pre-requisites and test out of classes. It's called the Physicians-to-Nursing program. Lots of foreign doctors, especially if they are older, just aren't able to secure U.S. residencies after several years of trying.

 

[phospho]

For example dentists who become doctors only take the last 2 years of medical school. (50% courses opt out)

actually no, that's incorrect... this only applies to the few going the OMFS route...

 

[deleted6669]

Florida International University has a one-year program that leads to a BSN for foreign-trained physicians. It allows them to waive traitional BSN pre-requisites and test out of classes. It's called the Physicians-to-Nursing program. Lots of foreign doctors, especially if they are older, just aren't able to secure U.S. residencies after several years of trying.

actually there are many 1 yr programs for anyone with a prior bs to get a bsn in 1 yr, it's fairly common....

 

[237696]

Yes, one-year (11 month or 14 month) accelerated second-degree BSN programs are common. But this is the only one in the nation (or was when it started) that waives the nursing prerequisites and lets you attempt to test out of nursing classes if you are a foreign doc. Those other programs usually have one to two years of prerequisites that most second degree candidates need first (nutrition, A&P I and II, microbiology, etc.).

 

[fab4fan]

possible but doubtful. My guess is that the op is a foreign med school student (probably Carib) and is just now realizing how much easier life can be as a mid level practitionerwith much less stress. Many people go through med school because they originally believe it will be a great career and a great lifestyle only to find out they will be working their butts off, making barely more than a good rn/np and will have to deal with gold diggers trying to sue them for any small mistake. The general public might not understand why a doc would ever want to be a nurse but in reality there are many reasons a doc would envy the lifestyle of a nurse.

What's to envy? It's really not that great on this side of the fence, either.
Every profession has its own set of migraines.

Nursing isn't a "fall-back" profession for people who can't hack it in a tougher field. It kind of pisses me off when nursing is presented as something for people to do if they can't cut it in medicine. We (nurses) don't need people like that in nursing. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. If you want to be a nurse, be a nurse. If you're already a doctor and want to be a nurse, well, that's weird. Big time red flag. I wouldn't want you as a co-worker and I wouldn't want you as my nurse. Sorry, JMO.

 

[core0]

I call that as a bogus claim. If that loophole existed a few years ago, that is definitely closed by now.

It still exists. Fillipino nursing schools because of the countries previous relationship with the US (and the fact that they were originally set up by the US) are generally accepted in the US if the nurse passes the NCLEX. There are shortened programs (3-6 months from what I've heard) that train Phillipino physicians as nurses (and more importantly to pass the NCLEX).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/01/asia_letter/main3121592.shtml

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[gonj]

Untrue, I know many people who were docs in the Philippines and they only needed to take NCLEX-RN to become an RN

more info please. my nursing teachers suck. i would rather self study then take the test already. i'm *this* close to firing their a**es!

 

[tantrum]

It still exists. Fillipino nursing schools because of the countries previous relationship with the US (and the fact that they were originally set up by the US) are generally accepted in the US if the nurse passes the NCLEX. There are shortened programs (3-6 months from what I've heard) that train Phillipino physicians as nurses (and more importantly to pass the NCLEX).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/01/asia_letter/main3121592.shtml

David Carpenter, PA-C

These are Philippine schools. Of course it is possible to do it there. But in the US, you need to have at least one year of Nursing education.

 

[fab4fan]

It still exists. Fillipino nursing schools because of the countries previous relationship with the US (and the fact that they were originally set up by the US) are generally accepted in the US if the nurse passes the NCLEX. There are shortened programs (3-6 months from what I've heard) that train Phillipino physicians as nurses (and more importantly to pass the NCLEX).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/01/asia_letter/main3121592.shtml

David Carpenter, PA-C

Forein grads don't just have to pass NCLEX. There is also CGFNS. It's not a cakewalk. Even if you pass the NCLEX in another country, it's not a free pass to getting a license in the US.

 

[justtesting]

What's to envy? It's really not that great on this side of the fence, either.
Every profession has its own set of migraines.

well i agree that each profession has its own set of migraines but if you want specific examples here are some:
36hr work week
no chance of getting called in the middle of the night for post nausea or htn problems
minimal to no malpractice woes
freedom to switch specialties and if needed it can usually happen all in the same day (ie quitting floor nursing and moving to diabetes clinic etc)
travel assignments to fun locations earning big money and having housing paid for
shift work
patient relationships
being part of the most trusted profession in the US
http://www.gallup.com/poll/112264/Nurses-Shine-While-Bankers-Slump-Ethics-Ratings.aspx

im not saying being a nurse is better than being a doctor- all i'm saying is that depending on the person and the situation, it isnt entirely crazy for a physician to envy certain aspects of the nursing career (which is what most people seem to be having a hard time understanding)

 

[tantrum]

Forein grads don't just have to pass NCLEX. There is also CGFNS. It's not a cakewalk. Even if you pass the NCLEX in another country, it's not a free pass to getting a license in the US.

There's at least 20 states that don't require CGFNS anymore (just pass the NCLEX). However, there is no immigration visa available for the past 2 years (retrogression) so this is immaterial. They can take NCLEX in many countries (they just have to pay additional $250). The only ones I know who are successful in doing these have permanent US residency (green card), the rest are stuck in limbo. As for going further like NP or CRNA, most of these folks don't know the difficulty of getting into these programs (especially CRNA).

 

[fab4fan]

well i agree that each profession has its own set of migraines but if you want specific examples here are some:
36hr work week
no chance of getting called in the middle of the night for post nausea or htn problems
minimal to no malpractice woes
freedom to switch specialties and if needed it can usually happen all in the same day (ie quitting floor nursing and moving to diabetes clinic etc)
travel assignments to fun locations earning big money and having housing paid for
shift work
patient relationships
being part of the most trusted profession in the US
http://www.gallup.com/poll/112264/Nurses-Shine-While-Bankers-Slump-Ethics-Ratings.aspx

im not saying being a nurse is better than being a doctor- all i'm saying is that depending on the person and the situation, it isnt entirely crazy for a physician to envy certain aspects of the nursing career (which is what most people seem to be having a hard time understanding)

36 hour work week...if you are lucky enough to work in a state that protects you from mandatory overtime.

Travel nursing-I would suggest you go over to www.allnurses.com and take a look at the forum devoted to travel nursing and see what happens to travel nurses. There's a nurse who posts here from time to time who is a travel nurse in onco, carolladybelle. She could tell you stories about traveling that would make your hair stand on end.

Yeah, patients just love us. That's why we get blamed for everything from the food being lousy to "Why does my doctor come in so early in the morning!"

 

[ULRN]

I call that as a bogus claim. If that loophole existed a few years ago, that is definitely closed by now.

Uh no, it is not. Do your research.

 

[ULRN]

It still exists. Fillipino nursing schools because of the countries previous relationship with the US (and the fact that they were originally set up by the US) are generally accepted in the US if the nurse passes the NCLEX. There are shortened programs (3-6 months from what I've heard) that train Phillipino physicians as nurses (and more importantly to pass the NCLEX).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/01/asia_letter/main3121592.shtml

David Carpenter, PA-C

Thanks

 

[236116]

What's to envy? It's really not that great on this side of the fence, either.
Every profession has its own set of migraines.

Nursing isn't a "fall-back" profession for people who can't hack it in a tougher field. It kind of pisses me off when nursing is presented as something for people to do if they can't cut it in medicine. We (nurses) don't need people like that in nursing. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. If you want to be a nurse, be a nurse. If you're already a doctor and want to be a nurse, well, that's weird. Big time red flag. I wouldn't want you as a co-worker and I wouldn't want you as my nurse. Sorry, JMO.

We're trying.

"OMG! Is nursing a good major for med school?"

No.

I'd want you as my nurse.

 

[tantrum]

Uh no, it is not. Do your research.

SORRY. I'm talking about doctors who want to take NCLEX without taking ANY nursing education. Please show me the link if it's possible. I'm from the Philippines and even doctors there have to do SOME Nursing school. It used to be possible to have a 6 month program but they have clamped down on this.
The shortest program in the US is by FIU ( 1 year).

 

[caroladybelle]

It still exists. Fillipino nursing schools because of the countries previous relationship with the US (and the fact that they were originally set up by the US) are generally accepted in the US if the nurse passes the NCLEX. There are shortened programs (3-6 months from what I've heard) that train Phillipino physicians as nurses (and more importantly to pass the NCLEX).

There is another rather sticky problem for someone from the Philippines seeking to work in the USA as an RN.

For Filipino BSN grads, retrogression is in place. So even if one graduates from a BSN RN program, there is currently a estimated 5-7 year wait to come and work in the USA. Retrogression for some other countries is shorter but not by much.

Not to mention nurses that come to the USA on a tourist Visa, and then try to take the NCLEX ....ICE (IMMIGRATION) has been busting them on the issue that taking the US NCLEX proves intent to immigrate, not be a tourist - thus busting and deporting them.

I have a strong feeling that a foreign MD, unless already authorized to work here, trying to become an BSN RN to immigrate will face an even harder time attempting to immigrate - seen as getting a nursing license, merely to immigrate. And one already living here on a nonworking Visa, attempting to become an RN, might actually complicate Visa status rather than helping it.

A good source exists in Suzanne at the AN bulletin board, in the International forums.

 

[caroladybelle]

well i agree that each profession has its own set of migraines but if you want specific examples here are some:
36hr work week
no chance of getting called in the middle of the night for post nausea or htn problems
minimal to no malpractice woes
freedom to switch specialties and if needed it can usually happen all in the same day (ie quitting floor nursing and moving to diabetes clinic etc)
travel assignments to fun locations earning big money and having housing paid for
shift work
patient relationships
being part of the most trusted profession in the US
http://www.gallup.com/poll/112264/Nurses-Shine-While-Bankers-Slump-Ethics-Ratings.aspx

-36 hr work week - maybe, if you do not work with mandated OT, or worse get low censused so much, that you cannot pay the bills. We also do not get to choose our schedules for the most, or the staff that we work with. Most of us will have to work holidays and/or weekends regularly.

-No, we do not get called about nausea. Instead, we get called at 1300, between working two 1900 - 0730 shifts, to see if we could come in 4 hours early. Or getting called at 2330, because somewhere a PCA key is missing, where is your beeper, or are you absolutely positive that PT "X "got his pain shot bed\cause he swears that he didn't and the nurse "musta stoled it". Please come in and pee in a cup.

-no malpractice worries. Heck yes I worry about malpractice, considering some of the surgeons I deal with. And, yes, I do have insurance.

- freedom to change specialties in a day? Not really, unless it is specialty that no one wants to do. Or if you are in BFE Community Hospital where all nurses are "interchangeable" - better up that malpractice insurance.

(As a side note, I am currently working for such a place. Some ***** decided that the Medical overflow to our Hemo/Onco unit be changed to GynOnco overflow. Two days later, with no training whatsoever, we started getting post C-Sect/adoption cases, postpartum fevers, and preterm rupture of membranes. Do your think we know what any of the abbreviations mean or know about fundal checks?)

-And while traveling can be fun, I actually get paid more as staff than traveler, and like coming home to my own things for the time being. Traveling also saddles you with : coworkers that do not know you, will dump the worst assignments and most annoying patients and techs on you, and throw you to the wolves if anything goes wrong. You do not know the MDs personal tics and preferences, and haven't learned how to decipher their chicken scrawl. You are first float everywhere.

-Patient relationships....I'm in Florida, and if I have one more grabbing drooling 65 year old with cialis script hit on me, I may be forced to do violence. Not to mention while there may be patients that you get attached to, that is not necessarily a good thing and can be heartbreaking at time. I work Hemo/Onco (mostly leukemia)...enough said.

-"Trusted"....well in slave days, people trusted their house slaves...yet they still treated them like garbage. Trust is nice but it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't necessarily make people treat us well.

Me and Nursing.....it truly is, at times, a Love/Hate relationship.

 

[justtesting]

-36 hr work week - maybe, if you do not work with mandated OT, or worse get low censused so much, that you cannot pay the bills. We also do not get to choose our schedules for the most, or the staff that we work with. Most of us will have to work holidays and/or weekends regularly.

-No, we do not get called about nausea. Instead, we get called at 1300, between working two 1900 - 0730 shifts, to see if we could come in 4 hours early. Or getting called at 2330, because somewhere a PCA key is missing, where is your beeper, or are you absolutely positive that PT "X "got his pain shot bed\cause he swears that he didn't and the nurse "musta stoled it". Please come in and pee in a cup.

-no malpractice worries. Heck yes I worry about malpractice, considering some of the surgeons I deal with. And, yes, I do have insurance.

- freedom to change specialties in a day? Not really, unless it is specialty that no one wants to do. Or if you are in BFE Community Hospital where all nurses are "interchangeable" - better up that malpractice insurance.

(As a side note, I am currently working for such a place. Some ***** decided that the Medical overflow to our Hemo/Onco unit be changed to GynOnco overflow. Two days later, with no training whatsoever, we started getting post C-Sect/adoption cases, postpartum fevers, and preterm rupture of membranes. Do your think we know what any of the abbreviations mean or know about fundal checks?)

-And while traveling can be fun, I actually get paid more as staff than traveler, and like coming home to my own things for the time being. Traveling also saddles you with : coworkers that do not know you, will dump the worst assignments and most annoying patients and techs on you, and throw you to the wolves if anything goes wrong. You do not know the MDs personal tics and preferences, and haven't learned how to decipher their chicken scrawl. You are first float everywhere.

-Patient relationships....I'm in Florida, and if I have one more grabbing drooling 65 year old with cialis script hit on me, I may be forced to do violence. Not to mention while there may be patients that you get attached to, that is not necessarily a good thing and can be heartbreaking at time. I work Hemo/Onco (mostly leukemia)...enough said.

-"Trusted"....well in slave days, people trusted their house slaves...yet they still treated them like garbage. Trust is nice but it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't necessarily make people treat us well.

Me and Nursing.....it truly is, at times, a Love/Hate relationship.

sounds more like hate/hate to me. all you did was complain. why am i the only nurse who has posted on this forum that can come up with anything good to say about the profession? maybe you live a different nursing life than i do, but nothing, absolutely nothing you complained about has ever been an issue for me. maybe its location... maybe just perspective... maybe its the unit i currently work for. i never get called for stupid stuff after my shift is over (my coworkers all realize that no one wants to be bothered when off shift). i have never ever been required to work overtime, but if i sign up for it volunatarily then i am compensated accordingly with overtime pay and usually more. my unit is almost always full so i never get called off. paying bills has never been an issue. i get recruiters and postcards contacting me regularly telling me about vacancies i could fill. my patients like me and appreciate the care i provide, the doctors respect me and my opinion, and hell yes, if i wanted i different job in a different unit, in a different hospital, i could generally have it literally within the same week (and i live in a big metro city, not some bfe rural town like you suggest.) i work for a state hospital so i dont pay malpractice. does life really suck that bad for all the other nurses out there? if you hate it so much, go do something else. i like nursing and i get treated well, i dont feel like a slave and you shouldnt either. im not saying nursing is the perfect profession, but come on, its not as bad as you make it out to be.

 

[ULRN]

SORRY. I'm talking about doctors who want to take NCLEX without taking ANY nursing education. Please show me the link if it's possible. I'm from the Philippines and even doctors there have to do SOME Nursing school. It used to be possible to have a 6 month program but they have clamped down on this.
The shortest program in the US is by FIU ( 1 year).

I will be working tonight and my co-worker was a doc in the Philippines and is now an RN. I will talk to him tonight and let you know.

 

[ULRN]

sounds more like hate/hate to me. all you did was complain. why am i the only nurse who has posted on this forum that can come up with anything good to say about the profession? maybe you live a different nursing life than i do, but nothing, absolutely nothing you complained about has ever been an issue for me. maybe its location... maybe just perspective... maybe its the unit i currently work for. i never get called for stupid stuff after my shift is over (my coworkers all realize that no one wants to be bothered when off shift). i have never ever been required to work overtime, but if i sign up for it volunatarily then i am compensated accordingly with overtime pay and usually more. my unit is almost always full so i never get called off. paying bills has never been an issue. i get recruiters and postcards contacting me regularly telling me about vacancies i could fill. my patients like me and appreciate the care i provide, the doctors respect me and my opinion, and hell yes, if i wanted i different job in a different unit, in a different hospital, i could generally have it literally within the same week (and i live in a big metro city, not some bfe rural town like you suggest.) i work for a state hospital so i dont pay malpractice. does life really suck that bad for all the other nurses out there? if you hate it so much, go do something else. i like nursing and i get treated well, i dont feel like a slave and you shouldnt either. im not saying nursing is the perfect profession, but come on, its not as bad as you make it out to be.

Hey! I am a nurse, and I like my job a lot. I work on a cardiothoracic unit and so I get attached to some of my patients, especially the ones who are on LVADS and Total Artificial Hearts. Most of my patients are very grateful for us and thank us constantly and some become like family. With that said, if the patient doesn't care about themselves or what happened to them, then don't expect them to fully respect you as a nurse.

I, like you, work 36 hours a week, no mandatory OT, I work in an academic university in a city, and I have also worked for a state hospital, and again, it was the same.

I like nursing, but at the same time I want to become a physician for the increased knowledge and educational background. I have many questions that I try to find the answers to and sometimes I reach a dead end unless I ask one of my physicians to explain something, and since all of them are surgeons, that doesn't happen too often.

Anyway justtesting, no you are not the only nurse who likes the job.

 

[justtesting]

Hey! I am a nurse, and I like my job a lot. I work on a cardiothoracic unit and so I get attached to some of my patients, especially the ones who are on LVADS and Total Artificial Hearts. Most of my patients are very grateful for us and thank us constantly and some become like family. With that said, if the patient doesn't care about themselves or what happened to them, then don't expect them to fully respect you as a nurse.

I, like you, work 36 hours a week, no mandatory OT, I work in an academic university in a city, and I have also worked for a state hospital, and again, it was the same.

I like nursing, but at the same time I want to become a physician for the increased knowledge and educational background. I have many questions that I try to find the answers to and sometimes I reach a dead end unless I ask one of my physicians to explain something, and since all of them are surgeons, that doesn't happen too often.

Anyway justtesting, no you are not the only nurse who likes the job.

Thank you. I am much like yourself and am finishing up my med school pre reqs. Best of luck to you

 

[fab4fan]

Thank you. I am much like yourself and am finishing up my med school pre reqs. Best of luck to you

Interesting. You both love nursing so much you're leaving it to become a doctor.

Next...

 

[caroladybelle]

I actually like it quite a bit. I just don't like where I am at now. But that will be changing in about 8 weeks. I am returning to one of the better travel positions I had, though I will be going in as a staffer.

The point is, to the OP, is that it is not that easy to switch to the RN track, especially if s/he is of foreign origin.

Second, that Nursing is not an automatic "fall back" position. As in if you can't hack med school, you'll breeze in as a nurse.

And that the pretty little travel ads about Nursing, don't show/tell the whole story. Nursing has its own problems that frequently med students do not see. Just as some nurses often do not really comprehend what med students/house staff deal with. I know that working in teaching hospitals truly opened my eyes.

PS. Fab4fan, I may be able to hop a Philly bound train, from where I am going. Hope Onco is going well for you.

 

[ChillyRN]

I agree, it also struck me as odd that the great defenders of the profession are both leaving it.

IME, nursing, like all career choices, has a continuum of terrible to terrrific. I floated at an urban med center in MI for two days b/c I was lured in by the $60/hour (and this was 10 years ago) and I would have to be starving and losing weight before I'd go back there. I was afraid for my safety and my license, not to mention patient safety. 50 miles away, I made very good money taking care of terrific people in a challenging and collegial enviornment. I still get Christmas cards from some of those patients! Now I work in BFE, making a pittance. I work with some terrific people, (nursing, medical and ancillary staff included), but there are a few duds across the board and most of the patients and administrators treat us like crap. I don't love it, but it is the right place to be for right now. I work 24 hours a week and I earn what I want to. No one at the hospital even has my phone number, lol, so no off hours phone calls; I don't engage in gossip or workplace drama. I don't have relationships with work people outside work, and I don't get personal with them. They know next to nothing about me, and vice versa. We chat and get along fine, and then I come home and leave it all behind. After 15 years on the job, I find it the best way to keep my stress level down. I think Id take the same approach were I a lawyer or an electrician, etc.

Just my .02 on that.

If the OP is serious, I'd suggest something trying to do something with your medical knowledge that doesn't require licensure. For example, a slightly different scenario, but I know a physician who's wife told him "either find a new career or find a new family," so he bailed on his internal medicine practice, went back to school for a computer sci degree. Everyoe aid he was crazy. He now designs medical software, I see him (with his family) at school functions, PTA, parent night, etc. I never saw him at those when he was practicing med! He says he earns about the same amount of money, but works half the hours, has no practice to manage, no employees, no call, no hospital rounds, no malpractice worries, and he is still involved tangentially in the field he loves. He is thrilled and so are his wife and family. Point being, your medical education can afford you a lot of lateral opportunities. Good luck.

 

[justtesting]

Interesting. You both love nursing so much you're leaving it to become a doctor.

Next...

what's even more interesting is your inability to grasp a simple concept. Neither of us has said nursing was the end all be all for a career, we did not state nursing was better than being a physician, the only thing I have tried to illustrate is the fact that nursing has it's advantages and can be an enjoyable and beneficial career. Is it hard for you to understand why someone who enjoyed college sports would want to go pro? Is it hard for you to understand why a high school teacher who enjoys teaching might want to get a phd and teach at a university? Exactly. Why is it so unreasonable for someone who enjoys nursing to go med school? You must be very closed minded to not understand that. What I don't get is why you gripe about work but continue without doing anything about it. If you don't want to be called when your shift is over then don't answer the phone etc. You're welcome to keep your grumpy attitude till the day you retire, I can't wait to see how much good it does you. Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy my work and recommend it to others while I take my learning and experiences to help me advance in my education and profession.

 

[ChillyRN]

I'm not attempting to answer for Fab, but I don't see how your analogy applies. Teaching is pedagogy, regardless of the audience. Football is football, and I guess were I a footballer, I'd want to play as long as possilble. What else is there but the pros after matriculation? Nursing and medicine are two seperate and distinct paths. I see them as parallel and it seems contradictory that you defend nursing vigorously while simultaneously preparing to leave nursing for a totally different career. People are complicated, so it isn't implausible or wrong, it is just odd (and slightly sad I guess, nursing needs more nurses who love it!).

I don't have a problem with it, and I doubt Fab does either. Your vitriol seems innappropriate somehow.

 

[justtesting]

I'm not attempting to answer for Fab, but I don't see how your analogy applies. Teaching is pedagogy, regardless of the audience. Football is football, and I guess were I a footballer, I'd want to play as long as possilble. What else is there but the pros after matriculation? Nursing and medicine are two seperate and distinct paths. I see them as parallel and it seems contradictory that you defend nursing vigorously while simultaneously preparing to leave nursing for a totally different career. People are complicated, so it isn't implausible or wrong, it is just odd (and slightly sad I guess, nursing needs more nurses who love it!).

I don't have a problem with it, and I doubt Fab does either. Your vitriol seems innappropriate somehow.

seperate yes but with huge overlaps. Espevially with advanced degrees ie fnp vs fp phycian, crna vs anes doc, psych np vs psych md, they do a ton of the same things yet one is nursing the other medicine. You say nursing and medicine are completely different, but that's just not true. Nursing and art history are completely different. Nursing and medicine walk hand in hand. When I am participating in the rounds for my patients, I love learning what the residents learn, I respect and envy the knowledge the attendings have. I see how nursing and medicine are different but I also see huge similarities. I enjoy providing patient care as a nurse and I look forward to doing it on a different level as a physician. That is how I look at my examples: college sports and pro sports are both sports, just on a different level. High school teaching and university teaching- both teaching but on different levels. Nurses and physicians both do patient care, just on different levels

 

[ChillyRN]

seperate yes but with huge overlaps. Espevially with advanced degrees ie fnp vs fp phycian, crna vs anes doc, psych np vs psych md, they do a ton of the same things yet one is nursing the other medicine. You say nursing and medicine are completely different, but that's just not true. Nursing and art history are completely different. Nursing and medicine walk hand in hand. When I am participating in the rounds for my patients, I love learning what the residents learn, I respect and envy the knowledge the attendings have. I see how nursing and medicine are different but I also see huge similarities. I enjoy providing patient care as a nurse and I look forward to doing it on a different level as a physician. That is how I look at my examples: college sports and pro sports are both sports, just on a different level. High school teaching and university teaching- both teaching but on different levels. Nurses and physicians both do patient care, just on different levels

Well IMO, it is completely different. I don't see tham as having much in common at all really (excepting patients in common), unless one is an APN providing primary care or an ACNP acting as hospitalist. I don't see levels, I see distinct professions. I don't think nursing is anymore like medicine than malpractice law is like medicine. Good luck with your pursuits though.

 

[justtesting]

Well IMO, it is completely different. I don't see tham as having much in common at all really (excepting patients in common), unless one is an APN providing primary care or an ACNP acting as hospitalist. I don't see levels, I see distinct professions. I don't think nursing is anymore like medicine than malpractice law is like medicine. Good luck with your pursuits though.

if you look at it from a different approach, we see that to advance clinically past a BSN would mean getting an NP degree, CRNA etc. what do you learn in these programs? diagnosing, advanced pharmacology, advanced patho, advanced anatomy etc (all stuff i love)... sound like med school yet? thats another place i see similarities. the more advanced you get into clinical nursing, the more it becomes focused on medicine.
i guess this will end in an 'agree to disagree' thank you for the respect you showed in your replies though.

 

[fab4fan]

I actually like it quite a bit. I just don't like where I am at now. But that will be changing in about 8 weeks. I am returning to one of the better travel positions I had, though I will be going in as a staffer.

The point is, to the OP, is that it is not that easy to switch to the RN track, especially if s/he is of foreign origin.

Second, that Nursing is not an automatic "fall back" position. As in if you can't hack med school, you'll breeze in as a nurse.

And that the pretty little travel ads about Nursing, don't show/tell the whole story. Nursing has its own problems that frequently med students do not see. Just as some nurses often do not really comprehend what med students/house staff deal with. I know that working in teaching hospitals truly opened my eyes.

PS. Fab4fan, I may be able to hop a Philly bound train, from where I am going. Hope Onco is going well for you.

I was planning on calling you later this week with updated version "Fab's Follies." That would be great if you were northern-bound!