MD Versus PhD:

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ecum2017

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Hello SDN-ers:

In the Spring and Summer of 2015, I applied to twenty-five M.D. & PhD combined programs across the country. I graduated with my BA in Spanish (summa cum laude) and BS in Biology in 2014 from the University of Michigan with a GPA of 3.764. In 2016, I graduated with my MS in Molecular, Cellular & Developmental Biology and completed a two-year research based thesis still at University of Michigan with a GPA of 4.000. At the end of June of 2016, I was unfortunately accepted to a single M.D. only program, but since I would have had to start at the end of July I contacted the school and asked for a deferral and my request was granted.

I submitted my American Medical College Application Service (AMCAS) by November 1st, 2016 to the school as a delayed matriculant. However, I have had second thoughts the entire time throughout this process because I want both degrees still. I have until March of 2017 to change my mind, but I am worried about the potential problems it could cause between the school and me applying again in the future. I am facing a dilemma and need the advice of you SDN-ers. I need to make one of these three decisions about my future career path this month:

Plan #1:
First, attend the school I was accepted at (26-29 years old). Second, complete residency training (30-33/37 years old).

Plan #2:
First, attend a school for a PhD (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I would get my paramedic license (26-27 years old). Second, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Third, complete residency training (36-39/43 years old).

Plan #3:
First, get a PhD out of state in California (Berkeley, Stanford, or University of California San Francisco) or at an Ivy League institution (Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, University of Pennsylvania, or Yale) (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I could get my paramedic licensure (26-27 years old). Second, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Third, complete residency training (36-39/43 old).

The first plan is an obvious choice to my family and friends, but it does not get me a PhD. I cannot stop wondering if I will be the best possible physician I can be without conducting research and obtaining a PhD. Maybe it's my ego, but I strive for excellence in academics and want to make contributions to the field of medicine beyond the bedside. Personally, I think I have a chance of getting into a top ten medical schools, if I did better on the MCAT. I am still really upset with myself over my first score (12 (BS) / 6 (VR) / 12 (PS)). I got in due to my extracurricular activities, grades, including sixteen A+s, and letters of recommendation.

The second and third plans would require me to take the GRE, but I do not think that would be too big of an obstacle.

In making my decision, I need to consider my personal well-being with regards to my emotional-mental, environmental, financial, intellectual, occupational, physical, social, and spiritual wellness. If you have any advice, please respond to this message thread!
 
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Backing out to go attend a PhD program will cause you to lose your spot at your MD school, right? Being a re-applicant who turned down an MD admit a few years earlier is a recipe for disaster.

Go to your MD option, maybe do a research year or masters, go to an academic residency, do academic fellowships and end up still doing research.
 
Go the MD school that accepted you. You should thank your lucky stars you got into any with an unbalanced 30. If you want to do research, you can do a postdoctoral after the MD, apply for research residencies, apply internally to your schools MD/PhD program etc.

If you want to be a doctor, take the acceptance and become a doctor. Dont worry about "not being all you can be" without the PhD. There are MDs who are world famous physicians with novel prizes from their research. I am 100% certain they don't lose sleep over never earning that PhD.

Seriously, this isn't even a real choice. the only comprable "dilemma" I can think of is a situation where I am presented with a brand new car and I'm conflicted over whether I should drive it home or straight off a cliff.
 
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Doing an MD/PhD is the biggest waste of time a person can do. If you want a career in research, do your MD with a year long project in the middle. Then do residency where you do some projects then match into a 2-3 year research based fellowship. People that do this are generally able to get a lab started, whereas just a plain MD/PhD you'd probably have to do a post-doc to be taken seriously.
 
Hello SDN-ers:

In the Spring and Summer of 2015, I applied to twenty-five M.D. & PhD combined programs across the country. At the end of June of 2016, I was unfortunately accepted to a single M.D. only program, but since I would have had to start at the end of July I contacted the school and asked for a deferral and my request was granted. I submitted my American Medical College Application Service (AMCAS) by November 1st, 2016 to the school as a delayed matriculant. However, I have had second thoughts the entire time throughout this process because I want both degrees still. I have until March of 2017 to change my mind, but I am worried about the potential problems it could cause between the school and me applying again in the future.

I am facing a dilemma and need the advice of you SDN-ers. I need to make one of these three decisions about my future career path this month:

Plan #1:
First, attend the school I was accepted at (26-29 years old). Next, complete residency training (30-33/37 years old).

Plan #2:
First, attend a school for a PhD (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I would get my paramedic license (26-27 years old). Next, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Then, complete residency training (36-39/43 years old).

Plan #3:
First, get a PhD out of state in California (Berkeley, Stanford, or University of California San Francisco) or at an Ivy League institution (Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, University of Pennsylvania, or Yale) (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I could get my paramedic licensure (26-27 years old). Next, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Then, complete residency training (36-39/43 old).

The first plan is an obvious choice to my family and friends, but it does not get me a PhD. I cannot stop wondering if I will be the best possible physician I can be without conducting research and obtaining a PhD. Maybe it's my ego, but I strive for excellence in academics and want to make contributions to the field of medicine beyond the bedside. Personally, I think I have a chance of getting into a top ten medical schools, if I did better on the MCAT. I am still really upset with myself over my first score (12 (BS) / 6 (VR) / 12 (PS)). The second and third plans would require me to take the GRE, but I do not think that would be too big of an obstacle.

In making my decision, I need to consider my personal well-being with regards to my emotional-mental, environmental, financial, intellectual, occupational, physical, social, and spiritual wellness. If you have any advice, please respond to this message thread!
Bruh....
 
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Doing an MD/PhD is the biggest waste of time a person can do. If you want a career in research, do your MD with a year long project in the middle. Then do residency where you do some projects then match into a 2-3 year research based fellowship. People that do this are generally able to get a lab started, whereas just a plain MD/PhD you'd probably have to do a post-doc to be taken seriously.

Just wanted to clarify that while MD-only PIs can and do run their own labs (as far as basic science or translational type research), they still need 2-3 yrs of protected research time to get data for early career awards, R-awards, foundation awards, etc. Fellowships may or may not be synergistic towards this goal depending on the specialty (since the first goal does tend to be developing skilled clinicians). More than anything, starting and sustaining a lab really comes down to grantsmanship and support from the department chair to allow the person to build up their research program (since a hardcore academic career is going to be tough to maintain in today's funding climate and will require significant time). Now a good mentor during the fellowship phase can go a long way towards helping build these skill sets - the PhD is just another avenue towards this end.

So while the MD/PhD may be "the biggest waste of time" for certain people, it really depends on the individual. Essentially what I'm getting at is that the MD/PhD is not for everyone and for some it wasn't a waste of time while for others it may have been.
 
Many fellowship programs will allow you to tack on multiple research years on top of the required 12 months. You can get enough research experience to run your own lab that way.
 
Many fellowship programs will allow you to tack on multiple research years on top of the required 12 months. You can get enough research experience to run your own lab that way.

Looks like the OP is wanting to go to one of the big schools, which means matching at one of the big schools.
 
Just wanted to clarify that while MD-only PIs can and do run their own labs (as far as basic science or translational type research), they still need 2-3 yrs of protected research time to get data for early career awards, R-awards, foundation awards, etc. Fellowships may or may not be synergistic towards this goal depending on the specialty (since the first goal does tend to be developing skilled clinicians). More than anything, starting and sustaining a lab really comes down to grantsmanship and support from the department chair to allow the person to build up their research program (since a hardcore academic career is going to be tough to maintain in today's funding climate and will require significant time). Now a good mentor during the fellowship phase can go a long way towards helping build these skill sets - the PhD is just another avenue towards this end.

So while the MD/PhD may be "the biggest waste of time" for certain people, it really depends on the individual. Essentially what I'm getting at is that the MD/PhD is not for everyone and for some it wasn't a waste of time while for others it may have been.

Isn't also extremely difficult for MD only grads to entire the ABIM physician scientist track as well? At ucsd there were only a few MD only and many of them had multiple research fellowships under their belt (MSKCC, HHMI).


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can you apply and receive multiple NIH grants (Ks/Rs) during residency or fellowship? example, getting R01 AND R21 simultaneously. do you know anyone who did this?

can MDs enter PSTP?
 
Plan #1:
First, attend the school I was accepted at (26-29 years old). Second, complete residency training (30-33/37 years old).

Plan #2:
First, attend a school for a PhD (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I would get my paramedic license (26-27 years old). Second, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Third, complete residency training (36-39/43 years old).

Plan #3:
First, get a PhD out of state in California (Berkeley, Stanford, or University of California San Francisco) or at an Ivy League institution (Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, University of Pennsylvania, or Yale) (27-32 years old). Meanwhile, I could get my paramedic licensure (26-27 years old). Second, attend medical school (32-36 years old). Third, complete residency training (36-39/43 old).

Plan #4:
Start a PhD program and become one of the large percentage of graduate students who never finish.

Plan #5:
Get a PhD, reapply unsuccessfully to medical school, give up and start a postdoc.

Look, this isn't hard. If you want to be a physician go to medical school. If you applied to my program and disclosed turning down an acceptance to get a PhD your application would get thrown in the trash.
 
Old thread
 
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can you apply and receive multiple NIH grants (Ks/Rs) during residency or fellowship? example, getting R01 AND R21 simultaneously.

residency? No
Fellowship? No

You need to be a PI with lots of preliminary data (read: publications) and ongoing collaborations to be a successful grantee these days.
 
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