MD vs DO milmed residency

[csx]

I couldn't find a up-to-date thread on this topic and the one that I found from years back had quickly veered off topic and turned into a DO<<<MD thread.

Anyways: Are DOs as competitive as MDs for military residencies, or do DOs face the same uphill fight for competitive residencies (ortho etc.) that they would face applying for residency in a civilian match? How do they standardize a COMLEX score with a USMLE score?

Thanks!

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[DrMetal]

I couldn't find a up-to-date thread on this topic and the one that I found from years back had quickly veered off topic and turned into a DO<<<MD thread.

Anyways: Are DOs as competitive as MDs for military residencies, or do DOs face the same uphill fight for competitive residencies (ortho etc.) that they would face applying for residency in a civilian match? How do they standardize a COMLEX score with a USMLE score?

Thanks!

There's DOs in almost every specialty in the military. Those who are good students and work hard seem to have no problem getting what they want. I wanna say its easier for them in the mil--Because the civilian world tends to be flooded with a lot of high-quality MDs--but that's just a subjective opinion.

Every once in a while, you run across a DO who has a chip on his shoulder, claiming he can cure GERD with a neck massage (and citing as evidence a study of N=8). Don't be one of those guys, theyre very annoying. (MDs who make similar claims are also annoying)

If you work hard, be humble in your ways, and practice good evidenced based medicine...you could compete just as well (if not better) than your MD peers.

 

[csx]

There's DOs in almost every specialty in the military. Those who are good students and work hard seem to have no problem getting what they want. I wanna say its easier for them in the mil--Because the civilian world tends to be flooded with a lot of high-quality MDs--but that's just a subjective opinion.

Every once in a while, you run across a DO who has a chip on his shoulder, claiming he can cure GERD with a neck massage (and citing as evidence a study of N=8). Don't be one of those guys, theyre very annoying. (MDs who make similar claims are also annoying)

If you work hard, be humble in your ways, and practice good evidenced based medicine...you could compete just as well (if not better) than your MD peers.

How do they compare the COMLEX score to the USMLE though?
What kind of residencies are most abundant? For example, for DO's its FM.
Isn't it harder to match into the specialty you want?

 

[HighPriest]

I think it is possibly easier for a DO to match into a subspecialty in the military, if we are comparing MD subspecialty residencies with military residencies. (As opposed to comparing DO subspecialty residencies with miitary residencis). There are some MDs who will alwas have a chip on their shoulder, and vice versa. But as already mentioned, there are DOs in every spec. From my experience when I was a chief resident in a subspecialty service (and we were asked to weigh in on applicants), they don't compare COMLEX directly to USMLE. They do look at the COMLEX score, and they do want it to be high, but they are more interested in what kind of person you are and what you bring to the table that your peers do not. Of course, if your COMLEX score sucks, then they don't bother to ask that question in the first place.

 

[csx]

I think it is possibly easier for a DO to match into a subspecialty in the military, if we are comparing MD subspecialty residencies with military residencies. (As opposed to comparing DO subspecialty residencies with miitary residencis). There are some MDs who will alwas have a chip on their shoulder, and vice versa. But as already mentioned, there are DOs in every spec. From my experience when I was a chief resident in a subspecialty service (and we were asked to weigh in on applicants), they don't compare COMLEX directly to USMLE. They do look at the COMLEX score, and they do want it to be high, but they are more interested in what kind of person you are and what you bring to the table that your peers do not. Of course, if your COMLEX score sucks, then they don't bother to ask that question in the first place.

Can you elaborate more on this? Are you saying a large portion of it is purely subjective? As in what kind of person you are (serious vs light hearted; interpersonal skills, etc)? Do they like look for a certain 'personality' for particular specialties or something or is it more "i like this guy, I'll give him the specialty he wants?"

 

[Roberie]

I spent a lot of time worrying about the selection process and how the subjective stuff intermingles with the objective. You know, in the end it's wasted energy because it doesn't make a bit of difference. I mean, "knowing" isn't going to change your approach to your studies or your audition rotations. The important thing is to perform the best you can on whichever board exam you take and to be a respectful, hardworking, team player on your rotations.

 

[psychbender]

Can you elaborate more on this? Are you saying a large portion of it is purely subjective? As in what kind of person you are (serious vs light hearted; interpersonal skills, etc)? Do they like look for a certain 'personality' for particular specialties or something or is it more "i like this guy, I'll give him the specialty he wants?"

Yes, a good portion of the selection process is highly subjective. Matching in the civilian and military worlds is not simply an issues of objective numbers and math.

Things that may go through a PD/Assistant PD's head during selection time: Does this person score well on standardized tests? What did the other attendings and residents working with him/her think about him/her during the audition rotation? Do I think this person will be able to function as my colleague in a few years? Does this person actually want to train in this specialty, or is this a fallback/perceived lifestyle/perceived glory/wishful thinking scenario?

It's not rocket science.

No, it is not harder to match the specialty that you want as a DO, versus as an MD. Half of my anesthesiology residency class were DOs, the other half (minus one) were USUHS. I see DOs in all fields (that we have) at my hospital. We have DOs in CCM, IM, FM, General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, etc.

 

[HighPriest]

Basically just mirroing what was stated, but to elaborate on my previous comment:

When it comes to subspecialty training, numbers basically demonstrate whether or not you should even be considered for a spot. Do poorly, and you get shuffled to the bottom of the stack. Do well, and you're at the top. When you look at the people on the top, their numbers are pretty similar. They're all top of the class, they all have high scores, and within a few points on their respective exams they all look pretty similar. That's when personality and other accomplishments come into play. If you don't get along with the residents during your rotation, or you do something stupid like make an ass out of yourself drinking, etc., etc., then you'll get tossed out of the stack. It is subjective, but a part of the progam director's job is to make sure that things run smoothly. One very straightforward way to do that is to make sure that the residents jive. And you don't want to spend 3-7 years working with someone who is a weirdo, or who you can't trust to take care of business. Numbers do not reflect those qualities very well. Numbers just tell a program director whether or not to consider you in th first place.

In the end, if it's a good year, a residency will end up with a list of 5+ students that are high scoring and good, trustworthy people. Then it comes down to the match. In a bad year, you might have one student you like, and a handful of maybes or even a guy you don't really like but you still have to rank. There have been years in which certain subspecialties have just enough or not enough applicants. There have been other years in whic a lot of people don't make the cut. You never can predict it.

So in terms of scores, do as well as you can. Even if you think you will want to end up in family medicine, shoot for a high score - because you never know, and you want to keep your options open. When you are rotating through potential residency spots, hang out with the residents. Get an idea of what kind of people they are, and whether you think you'll get along with them. If you think you could hand out with them personally, then it's a good match. And if you have those high scores backing you up, your chances are good.

 

[csx]

Soo are you guys all saying it is easier to specialize as a DO going milmed than if they were to match traditionally as a civilian? I can't help but feel like you all sound like recruiters haha

 

[DrMetal]

Soo are you guys all saying it is easier to specialize as a DO going milmed than if they were to match traditionally as a civilian? I can't help but feel like you all sound like recruiters haha

What specialty do you have in mind? If you're talking about internal medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, OB/GYN, then the answer is yes its easier.

If you're talking about neurosurgery, then answer is no, but then again come to think of it, it's hard for even MDs to match into that.

 

[colbgw02]

Soo are you guys all saying it is easier to specialize as a DO going milmed than if they were to match traditionally as a civilian? I can't help but feel like you all sound like recruiters haha

I think it's fair to say that anti-DO bias is either non-existent or severely diminished in military medicine.

And that would be the first time anyone accused me of sounding like a recruiter.

 

[csx]

Im talking more so about specialties above FM/IM/Ped's/etc and below Derm/Plastics/Neuro Surg.

So im talking like ortho, rad, surgury (in general) etc.

 

[pgg]

I think it's fair to say that anti-DO bias is either non-existent or severely diminished in military medicine.

This matches what I've observed also. There are a lot of DOs in the military.

(But don't join unless you want to be in the military.)