Meaningless Certifications and Bogus Credentials

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ClinicalABA

ClinicalABA

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Irregardless of the quality of the content of this training, be aware that if you list the “CCATP” credential after your name and degree, many good folks will giggle behind your back. If you need the CEUs, whatever- CEUs are basically an administrative hurdle with no guaranteed skill enhancement (and for a limited time you’ll save $1260!). Just please don’t think it certifies you to do anything or that you even need “certification” to treat anxiety disorder.
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BuckeyeLove said:
Omg the amount of PESI stuff I get is offensive hahahah. Also wasn’t there a dog that got certified in stuff one time before?
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It was a cat! Dr. Zoe D. Katze, specifically.

That combination of therapies and the idea that anxiety treatment needs to be "trauma-informed" hurts. Also, petition to ban the term "somatic therapy" (from the field, I mean, not this forum)
 
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Yeah, me too, and I'd say every 1 in 20 is actually for an efficacious therapy. Maybe less than that?

I also love all of the DBT trainings that aren't affiliated with Behavioral Tech. Bet BTech LOVES that.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
So there’s only like one actual place to get real DBT training then right?
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Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "real." The gold standard is Behavioral Tech and people affiliated with them. I think that you can probably attend other trainings and get useful skills and information, but I doubt they're as comprehensive as the Behavioral Tech intensive trainings.
 
What are your thoughts about the certificate programs through CONCEPT Palo Alto? Are they legit? Worth pursuing? Specifically, the ones related to forensic psychology?
 
Unsalted Coast said:
What are your thoughts about the certificate programs through CONCEPT Palo Alto? Are they legit? Worth pursuing? Specifically, the ones related to forensic psychology?
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What kind of forensics? In terms of WC/IME type work, I can't think of a single colleague with any sort of certification beyond recognized board certification.
 
Got another PESI brochure today- that makes 4 so far this week. Just think, I could be certified in treating anxiety disorders, childhood anxiety, and treating borderline PD in only a few days, trained by "best selling authors," without leaving my house, and saving thousands of dollars off the "regular" prices.

While I am being a bit harsh on PESI, I needed a few last minute CEU a few years back and did a 6 hour live online training on School Refusal. It was actually quite good- comprehensive presentation of the research, as well as good overview of treatment procedures. Unfortunately it was not one that offered certification (such as Certified Clinician- School Refusal Therapy), thus I can't refer to myself as ClincalABA, Ph.D, BCBA-D, LABA, CCSRT. With all those legit credentials, I only need a few more initials after my name before I get into Speech Therapist levels of letters.
 
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ClinicalABA said:
Got another PESI brochure today- that makes 4 so far this week. Just think, I could be certified in treating anxiety disorders, childhood anxiety, and treating borderline PD in only a few days, trained by "best selling authors," without leaving my house, and saving thousands of dollars off the "regular" prices.

While I am being a bit harsh on PESI, I needed a few last minute CEU a few years back and did a 6 hour live online training on School Refusal. It was actually quite good- comprehensive presentation of the research, as well as good overview of treatment procedures. Unfortunately it was not one that offered certification (such as Certified Clinician- School Refusal Therapy), thus I can't refer to myself as ClincalABA, Ph.D, BCBA-D, LABA, CCSRT. With all those legit credentials, I only need a few more initials after my name before I get into Speech Therapist levels of letters.
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PESI does have some good content, it's just that they have no quality control and will also put out mostly junk. At least from the materials I get, it's about 10% quality content, 40% overhyped "certifications, and 50% outright pseudoscience.
 
WisNeuro said:
What kind of forensics? In terms of WC/IME type work, I can't think of a single colleague with any sort of certification beyond recognized board certification.
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More criminal forensic evals and possibly fitness-for-duty evals. I will begin an internship this Fall that is focused on criminal forensic evals like competency to proceed but I was curious if I should also pursue a certificate.
 
Unsalted Coast said:
More criminal forensic evals and possibly fitness-for-duty evals. I will begin an internship this Fall that is focused on criminal forensic evals like competency to proceed but I was curious if I should also pursue a certificate.
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I'd say useless for FFD evals or the most part. Not sure about criminal competency type stuff as I don't operate in that sphere.
 
Unsalted Coast said:
More criminal forensic evals and possibly fitness-for-duty evals. I will begin an internship this Fall that is focused on criminal forensic evals like competency to proceed but I was curious if I should also pursue a certificate.
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You will ABSOLUTELY and unequivocally be laughed at behind your back amongst actual forensic psychologists. And if you're on the stand and an attorney asks you about this type of cert on voire dire they will also likely rip it apart and make you look bad. The only thing that looks good is ABFP after your degree. That's it. And even then that doesn't always mean much to most.
 
psych.meout said:
View attachment 367704
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In theory, that sounds like fun. But in practice, I am far too obsessive for either of those.
WisNeuro said:
What kind of forensics? In terms of WC/IME type work, I can't think of a single colleague with any sort of certification beyond recognized board certification.
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CONCEPT has some sort of deal with ABPP forensics, where their CEs count more than other CEs.
 
ClinicalABA said:
Got another PESI brochure today- that makes 4 so far this week. Just think, I could be certified in treating anxiety disorders, childhood anxiety, and treating borderline PD in only a few days, trained by "best selling authors," without leaving my house, and saving thousands of dollars off the "regular" prices.

While I am being a bit harsh on PESI, I needed a few last minute CEU a few years back and did a 6 hour live online training on School Refusal. It was actually quite good- comprehensive presentation of the research, as well as good overview of treatment procedures. Unfortunately it was not one that offered certification (such as Certified Clinician- School Refusal Therapy), thus I can't refer to myself as ClincalABA, Ph.D, BCBA-D, LABA, CCSRT. With all those legit credentials, I only need a few more initials after my name before I get into Speech Therapist levels of letters.
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I attended one on BPD that was actually very good, although rooted in more "old school" theory (nothing wrong with that, honestly, it was cool to see that conceptualization).
 
PsyDr said:
In theory, that sounds like fun. But in practice, I am far too obsessive for either of those.


CONCEPT has some sort of deal with ABPP forensics, where their CEs count more than other CEs.
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I thought APA stipulated a pretty strict CE=time type of ratio, I didn't know you could add a multiplier to the CE.
 
WisNeuro said:
I thought APA stipulated a pretty strict CE=time type of ratio, I didn't know you could add a multiplier to the CE.
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ABFP hasn't fully established the post doc route. There's like 100 total boarded people, so there are not many post docs. The board allow for years of experience + CEs, like the ABCN older folks. ABFP wants a specified number of forensic CE hours, but those CEs done through ABFP count more (e.g., ~1.5hrs or so). CONCEPT has some deal where they administer ABFP's CEs. So CONCEPT hours count more towards board cert.

Nothing to do with the licensing boards.
 
PsyDr said:
ABFP hasn't fully established the post doc route. There's like 100 total boarded people, so there are not many post docs. The board allow for years of experience + CEs, like the ABCN older folks. ABFP wants a specified number of forensic CE hours, but those CEs done through ABFP count more (e.g., ~1.5hrs or so). CONCEPT has some deal where they administer ABFP's CEs. So CONCEPT hours count more towards board cert.

Nothing to do with the licensing boards.
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Ah, ok, that makes more sense.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
So there’s only like one actual place to get real DBT training then right?
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These are tough questions to answer empirically. The reason BTech is often thought of as the gold standard is b/c it was started by Linehan. Which means that an academic family tree is the primary evidence for the quality of the training organization. That same qualification would also include:

DBT Trainings – Portland DBT Institute

DBT Trainings PDBTI offers a comprehensive catalog of training in DBT from basic to advanced courses. We offer regularly scheduled public trainings and are available for private training and consultation customized to meet your agency’s needs. All trainers are DBT-LBC certified and balance...
www.pdbti.org
www.ticllc.org

Treatment Implementation Collaborative, LLC

Expert Training, Consultation, and Implementation in Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Contact us, we're excited to work with you!
www.ticllc.org www.ticllc.org
dbtpe.org

DBT PE

dbtpe.org dbtpe.org
and a few other individuals doing training.

However, many many people get trained by PESI and their DBT training program which was developed by Lane Peterson. I have no idea where he did his DBT training (not with Linehan) or any other close treatment developers or their next generation of students) and the quality of those trainings. They may be of high quality or not. We just have no way of knowing since no one is researching their training program (BTech has published numerous empirical articles on their training). While we can't say PESI is worse, we can definitely say it is more of a mystery.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
Welp speak of the devil. Walked into work this morning with a PESI for "Gaslighting."
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Does it have to do with correct definition and usage of the term? Or am I being overly-optimistic?
 
The more initials you out behind your name, the more insecure you are about ability. Kind of like guys with big trucks and small penises which is my wife’s theory on overcompensating. Pretty sure there is no real data on that, but since she is not a psychologist, she can just make crap up like the people who are marketing CEUs. As far as DBT, I just tell people that I got much of my training directly from Linehan herself at a couple of week long conferences. Don’t need any credential and patients stop self-harming because I actually know how to implement behavioral principles and understand the central importance of how to balance the dialectic of radical acceptance vs. need or desire for change. What was truly amazing to me was how many clinicians at her conferences were clearly impervious to the knowledge she was trying to impart and were going to continue with their preconceived fallacies about treatment and conceptualization of Borderline PD. Helped me to realize why so many clinicians who say they do DBT don’t know anything about it. Maybe I should find a few more psychologists to hang out with in real life.
 
smalltownpsych said:
The more initials you out behind your name, the more insecure you are about ability. Kind of like guys with big trucks and small penises which is my wife’s theory on overcompensating. Pretty sure there is no real data on that, but since she is not a psychologist, she can just make crap up like the people who are marketing CEUs. As far as DBT, I just tell people that I got much of my training directly from Linehan herself at a couple of week long conferences. Don’t need any credential and patients stop self-harming because I actually know how to implement behavioral principles and understand the central importance of how to balance the dialectic of radical acceptance vs. need or desire for change. What was truly amazing to me was how many clinicians at her conferences were clearly impervious to the knowledge she was trying to impart and were going to continue with their preconceived fallacies about treatment and conceptualization of Borderline PD. Helped me to realize why so many clinicians who say they do DBT don’t know anything about it. Maybe I should find a few more psychologists to hang out with in real life.
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It's mostly SW in which I see an alphabet soup behind someone's name. But, when I See a psychologist with like 5 different acronyms after their degree and state license designation, it's almost always a diploma miller.
 
cara susanna said:
I'd attend a PESI seminar on what the actual definition of gaslighting is and suggested interventions for people misusing the term (or tolerating my own distress when I hear it misused).
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I’m thoroughly convinced most people now think that gaslighting means “having a different opinion than me in any way.”
 
smalltownpsych said:
The more initials you out behind your name, the more insecure you are about ability. Kind of like guys with big trucks and small penises which is my wife’s theory on overcompensating. Pretty sure there is no real data on that, but since she is not a psychologist, she can just make crap up like the people who are marketing CEUs. As far as DBT, I just tell people that I got much of my training directly from Linehan herself at a couple of week long conferences. Don’t need any credential and patients stop self-harming because I actually know how to implement behavioral principles and understand the central importance of how to balance the dialectic of radical acceptance vs. need or desire for change. What was truly amazing to me was how many clinicians at her conferences were clearly impervious to the knowledge she was trying to impart and were going to continue with their preconceived fallacies about treatment and conceptualization of Borderline PD. Helped me to realize why so many clinicians who say they do DBT don’t know anything about it. Maybe I should find a few more psychologists to hang out with in real life.
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Tbh, I think DBT done correctly can be distressing for a decent number of clinicians because there’s a significant emphasis on validating the client but not validating their harmful BS, and I think a lot of people, particularly master’s level folks think therapy should be unconditional and constant validation of everything. Or maybe they’re just lazy.
 
WisNeuro said:
It's mostly SW in which I see an alphabet soup behind someone's name. But, when I See a psychologist with like 5 different acronyms after their degree and state license designation, it's almost always a diploma miller.
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Agreed. Same with psychologists who list a master’s degree(s) in the same or similar field or who list a master’s degree before the doctorate.

Part of my doctoral program’s ethics course sequence was how to properly designate/document your credentials and what not to do and why, e.g. Dr. Feel Good, PhD as opposed to Feel Good, PhD or Dr. Feel Good. At the time, I mistakenly assumed every doctoral student got this training. I’ve been surprised several times over the years with some psychologists not knowing this or even actively arguing the incorrect way is, in fact, correct.

But, nursing has everyone beat. The alphabet soup behind some nurses’ names is almost literally the alphabet.
 
medium rare said:
Agreed. Same with psychologists who list a master’s degree(s) in the same or similar field or who list a master’s degree before the doctorate.

Part of my doctoral program’s ethics course sequence was how to properly designate/document your credentials and what not to do and why, e.g. Dr. Feel Good, PhD as opposed to Feel Good, PhD or Dr. Feel Good. At the time, I mistakenly assumed every doctoral student got this training. I’ve been surprised several times over the years with some psychologists not knowing this or even actively arguing the incorrect way is, in fact, correct.

But, nursing has everyone beat. The alphabet soup behind some nurses’ names is almost literally the alphabet.
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One of my previous employers regularly printed nameplates as "Dr. XYZ, Ph.D." or "Dr. XYZ, M.D." I always chuckled a bit seeing it.

My guess is that they wanted to list the actual degree type, which makes sense. But they may have also worried about hurting providers' feelings by not calling them "doctor" on their nameplates.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
One of my previous employers regularly printed nameplates as "Dr. XYZ, Ph.D." or "Dr. XYZ, M.D." I always chuckled a bit seeing it.

My guess is that they wanted to list the actual degree type, which makes sense. But they may have also worried about hurting providers' feelings by not calling them "doctor" on their nameplates.
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That’s a common explanation for doing that although, technically, it’s incorrect.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
One of my previous employers regularly printed nameplates as "Dr. XYZ, Ph.D." or "Dr. XYZ, M.D." I always chuckled a bit seeing it.

My guess is that they wanted to list the actual degree type, which makes sense. But they may have also worried about hurting providers' feelings by not calling them "doctor" on their nameplates.
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When I graduated, my mom got me a nameplate with the Dr. ClinicalABA Ph.D. put it out on my desk at home whemever she visited. Worked with and arrogant and incompetent psychiatrist who referred to himself as Dr. ××××××××, MD. We referred to him as "Double Doc" behind his back. He had an MD license plate. Tool.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Tbh, I think DBT done correctly can be distressing for a decent number of clinicians because there’s a significant emphasis on validating the client but not validating their harmful BS, and I think a lot of people, particularly master’s level folks think therapy should be unconditional and constant validation of everything. Or maybe they’re just lazy.
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Another problem is they focus on trying to stop or convince the patients to stop self-harming which is what everyone else did before and it just reinforces the behavior. Its not DBT or even following basic behavioral principles since attention is typically reinforcing. The painstaking behavioral chain analysis is of benefit because it shifts the attention to the emotional state and events leading to that emotional state. That’s what I want to give attention to and lots of it. Reinforcing the behavior of taking to me about the events and emotions that the patient struggles with pays off quickly. It is actually pretty simple and a decent therapist is typically a more effective coping tool than self harm so it is way easier than treating a drug addiction.

This was all off topic but it’s important information to get out there in my mind so I’ll always jump in with a bit of this whenever I get the chance.
 
medium rare said:
Part of my doctoral program’s ethics course sequence was how to properly designate/document your credentials and what not to do and why, e.g. Dr. Feel Good, PhD as opposed to Feel Good, PhD or Dr. Feel Good. At the time, I mistakenly assumed every doctoral student got this training. I’ve been surprised several times over the years with some psychologists not knowing this or even actively arguing the incorrect way is, in fact, correct.
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My program didn't have this. I'm assuming that "Firstname Lastname, PhD" is typically the most appropriate and accurate, but is there more nuance or am I missing something?
 
silverway said:
My program didn't have this. I'm assuming that "Firstname Lastname, PhD" is typically the most appropriate and accurate, but is there more nuance or am I missing something?
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That's it, although some states mandate something that indicates you being a licensed psychologist. Also, board certification in the signature is pretty common.
 
medium rare said:
Firstname Lastname, PhD is correct. Dr. Firstname Lastname is also correct but less specific. Dr. Firstname Lastname, PhD is redundant and inappropriate.
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That's what I figured. Thanks for clarifying!
 
I've heard the term neuropsychotherapy a few times in the past. I have no idea what it means.

Also, pictures of brains make everything better. $20 says that image was not from any sort of study they did. Also, increased brain activity isn't always a good thing. But hey, science!
 
AcronymAllergy said:
I've heard the term neuropsychotherapy a few times in the past. I have no idea what it means.

Also, pictures of brains make everything better. $20 says that image was not from any sort of study they did. Also, increased brain activity isn't always a good thing. But hey, science!
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Yup. Only reason I read your posts is because you have a colorful brain avatar. You must know what you’re talking about. 😉
It does seem like this type of junk science is getting worse or maybe that’s a product of my own rosy retrospection. Seemed like when I was in grad school the pendulum was swinging away from the pseudoscience and the repressed memory and multiple personality disorders everywhere and rebirthing and primal scream therapy types of things and now it’s swinging back that way again.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
Somewhat related: who started PESI? Was it an actual psychological scientist? If so seems a bit disingenuous. Or just a business bro.? would make more sense. Because they have to be raking it in.
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"PESI HealthCare has a long history in the continuing education seminar business, with roots dating back to 1979. That year, Professional Education Systems began as a legal publishing company, and soon added continuing education seminars and conferences to its publishing projects. In 1985 PESI presented its first healthcare program. In 1997, the PESI HealthCare division was formally created, dedicated to educating the nation's healthcare professionals.
 
WisNeuro said:
"PESI HealthCare has a long history in the continuing education seminar business, with roots dating back to 1979. That year, Professional Education Systems began as a legal publishing company, and soon added continuing education seminars and conferences to its publishing projects. In 1985 PESI presented its first healthcare program. In 1997, the PESI HealthCare division was formally created, dedicated to educating the nation's healthcare professionals.
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a gen X success story
 
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