Med school apologizes to students "triggered" by a test question

[Espressso]

Yeah, the bottom line is that you, as an MS3, know better what my job is than I do...

Also, the more you talk about your hospital, the more convinced I am you didn't actually learn what was happening and why.

Yes, these are tox patients who are transferred to my hospital...not just for intubation obviously...but it is what we have to do to some at the end to keep them and others safe...and manage their other medical problems...in ICU...usually only need it for 1-2 days until the drug wear off...

I have health care experience prior to medical school...We never involve psych until we feel it is appropriate or psych Often involve in...does not mean it is malpractice lol...we don’t do this until last effort...Problem w you as a physician is you are not the one who manage these patients and have to spend more than “15 mins” w patients at bedside...you are not the one who hold them down...since I spend time at bed side, I understand how tough it is to keep patients and staffs safe...some needs social intubation...

Wait a minute... this dude is an ms3? A med student? Two pages of comments ago he was on my case about not having experience... and here he is. Talking like he's been an attending for twenty years.

Come on bro... you've been hammering a meaningless case against an actual psychiatrist about the problems with his practice and his practice style. You're a student dude. Show a bit of respect. No one cares if you never involve psych or when you involve psych. LOL.

EDIT: I'm all for the debate and the conversation we've been having in this thread, it's enjoyable. But you can't talk down to someone for not having experience when you disagree with their opinions and you're virtually at the same level of training as them.

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[deleted480308]

Well, I don't think anybody's ever happy to see violence or riots. But I do understand it, and you can't question the effectiveness of it. Let's be honest, would the media be talking about BLM and police brutality because of picket signs and hashtags? Would local governments actually try to take steps in actually fixing the problem? I seriously, seriously doubt it. So I totally get why the people who have been fighting so hard for this feel like they have to resort to riots and civil disobedience. Look at how people were treated for kneeling during the national anthem, which is about as innocuous and nonviolent an exercise of free speech as you can possibly get. While I feel terribly for any random people who have had their property damaged, it's important not to lose focus of the fact that they are literally protesting innocent people getting murdered with the perpetrators often getting off scot-free without any change, which puts things into perspective. I'm glad that finally it seems that people are actually listening.

That sounds a lot like you just said you support the rioting and chaz crap

 

[Mass Effect]

I agree with Mass Effect here-intubating someone just because they’re agitated does not sound appropriate. To the best of my knowledge, my med school/residency attendings only intubated for two reasons-impending (or actual) respiratory failure, and for surgery.

If what you mean is you have to snow them to get them calmed down/safe enough for both themselves and for staff, and then you unfortunately put them into respiratory failure and now they need to be intubated, I can understand that.

This is what I said pages ago and @frenchyn claimed no, they intubate due to agitation. It's not at all believable.

And of course, because none of the 6 hospitals I've worked at do something so irresponsible, I don't know what I'm talking about and I have problems with my practice. lol. So says an MS 3.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This is what I said pages ago and @frenchyn claimed no, they intubate due to agitation. It's not all believable.

It has the feel of someone who doesn't quite get the why behind what they're seeing.

Agitated patient, lots of drugs aren't calming them down, so we stick in a breathing tube. But they didn't see the step where the drugs that finally get them calmed down depress breathing to the extent that said tube is needed.

 

[Mass Effect]

Wait a minute... this dude is an ms3? A med student? Two pages of comments ago he was on my case about not having experience... and here he is. Talking like he's been an attending for twenty years.

Come on bro... you've been hammering a meaningless case against an actual psychiatrist about the problems with his practice and his practice style. You're a student dude. Show a bit of respect. No one cares if you never involve psych or when you involve psych. LOL.

EDIT: I'm all for the debate and the conversation we've been having in this thread, it's enjoyable. But you can't talk down to someone for not having experience when you disagree with their opinions and you're virtually at the same level of training as them.

Yup. I think there's a reason he was up in arms about virtual rotations a few weeks ago.

 

[Mass Effect]

It has the feel of someone who doesn't quite get the why behind what they're seeing.

Agitated patient, lots of drugs aren't calming them down, so we stick in a breathing tube. But they didn't see the step where the drugs that finally get them calmed down depress breathing to the extent that said tube is needed.

Exactly. He should learn the why quickly because telling people "my hospital intubates agitated patients and psychiatric patients to keep staff safe" is likely to get you in major hot water.

 

[deleted480308]

Exactly. He should learn the why quickly because telling people "my hospital intubates agitated patients and psychiatric patients to keep staff safe" is likely to get you in major hot water.

It’s a little like saying cardiology stabs people in the leg to cure chest pain

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It’s a little like saying cardiology stabs people in the leg to cure chest pain

Well that's just false.

They do it to pay for the boat.

 

[TRPMinus]

Well, I don't think anybody's ever happy to see violence or riots. But I do understand it, and you can't question the effectiveness of it. Let's be honest, would the media be talking about BLM and police brutality because of picket signs and hashtags? Would local governments actually try to take steps in actually fixing the problem? I seriously, seriously doubt it. So I totally get why the people who have been fighting so hard for this feel like they have to resort to riots and civil disobedience. Look at how people were treated for kneeling during the national anthem, which is about as innocuous and nonviolent an exercise of free speech as you can possibly get. While I feel terribly for any random people who have had their property damaged, it's important not to lose focus of the fact that they are literally protesting innocent people getting murdered with the perpetrators often getting off scot-free without any change, which puts things into perspective. I'm glad that finally it seems that people are actually listening.

Actually, I can question the effectiveness of their methods and I find nothing “civil” about their “disobedience”. The killing of innocent civilians/police officers and the wanton destruction of property is wrong. Period. More people have died in the aftermath of George Floyd (actually innocent people I might add, not people in the process of committing crimes) than the number of unarmed black people dying at the hands of police. At some point the scales tip.

 

[Espressso]

Actually, I can question the effectiveness of their methods and I find nothing “civil” about their “disobedience”. The killing of innocent civilians/police officers and the wanton destruction of property is wrong. Period. More people have died in the aftermath of George Floyd (actually innocent people I might add, not people in the process of committing crimes) than the number of unarmed black people dying at the hands of police. At some point the scales tip.

Brother/Sister, the destruction of property is wrong. The protests are not. And the majority seem to be peaceful, while the examples of looting and rioting takes center stage on the evening news. Protests are civil disobedience. There is a long and rich history of this in the US.

But more importantly, even the way you're wording this comment speaks volumes. "innocent people... not people in the process of committing crimes", seemingly implying that the fact that these people are committing crimes, somehow justifies their killing.

You seem to be more upset about the "wanton destruction of property" more so than the killings of unarmed Americans at the hands of the police. That is the reason for the protests.

 

[deleted480308]

Brother/Sister, the destruction of property is wrong. The protests are not. And the majority seem to be peaceful, while the examples of looting and rioting takes center stage on the evening news. Protests are civil disobedience. There is a long and rich history of this in the US.

But more importantly, even the way you're wording this comment speaks volumes. "innocent people... not people in the process of committing crimes", seemingly implying that the fact that these people are committing crimes, somehow justifies their killing.

You seem to be more upset about the "wanton destruction of property" more so than the killings of unarmed Americans at the hands of the police. That is the reason for the protests.

couple things here:
1) it’s totally consistent to think some cops commit criminal violence on the populace and also want all rioters given full prosecution and force if needed to stop
2) agreed that being a criminal doesn’t mean you have die
3) some criminals actually die appropriately though because they put themselves in that spot
4) being unarmed doesn’t automatically mean someone can’t be dangerous enough to make a shooting appropriate

 

[TRPMinus]

Brother/Sister, the destruction of property is wrong. The protests are not. And the majority seem to be peaceful, while the examples of looting and rioting takes center stage on the evening news. Protests are civil disobedience. There is a long and rich history of this in the US.

But more importantly, even the way you're wording this comment speaks volumes. "innocent people... not people in the process of committing crimes", seemingly implying that the fact that these people are committing crimes, somehow justifies their killing.

You seem to be more upset about the "wanton destruction of property" more so than the killings of unarmed Americans at the hands of the police. That is the reason for the protests.

Oh I’m well aware of what civil disobedience is, I’m just saying that burning and killing is NOT a healthy example of this. I fully support peaceful protesting and it’s great that some people are doing it peacefully. Protests do not equal civil disobedience though, btw.

And if you fight with the police, steal their weapon, and use it against them, you absolutely are putting yourself in a position to be shot/wounded/killed. The many innocent people that have died in this violence didn’t do any of that, and thus you cannot begin to justify their deaths.

 

[bananafish94]

That sounds a lot like you just said you support the rioting and chaz crap

I have to admit my bias here and yield that my baseline assumption is that anything with a catchy name that's covered extensively by Fox is some sort of boogeyman that's being blown way out of proportion. So I don't know a whole lot about CHAZ. But as long as it's peaceful don't really care and assume it will slowly fizzle out. I did hear that someone got shot and so if it becomes dangerous and people are getting hurt it should be stopped.

As for the rioting, "support" is not the best word. "Understand" is a better word. I don't like to see rioting, or anything that hurts innocent people in any way. But I also think it's important not to fall into the trap of clutching my pearls about the rioting when it's in response to something that's so vastly, infinitely worse. I also try to put myself in someone else's shoes. I'm mad as hell about it, furious. And then I think - how would I react if this was my community? If there was a conclusive video of my father or neighbor or friend getting choked to death for nine minutes and no arrests were made for days, how would I react? What if someone knocked down the door of my brother or sister or coworker's house with a battering ram while they were sleeping and shot them eight times? And there wasn't a single criminal charge? Or if vigilantes chased them down and shot them while they were jogging and it took months for anyone to do anything? I certainly wouldn't be polite about it. I'd probably start a riot too. Just typing all of this actually makes me feel guilty that I'm not on the streets about this right now.

 

[deleted480308]

I have to admit my bias here and yield that my baseline assumption is that anything with a catchy name that's covered extensively by Fox is some sort of boogeyman that's being blown way out of proportion. So I don't know a whole lot about CHAZ. But as long as it's peaceful don't really care and assume it will slowly fizzle out. I did hear that someone got shot and so if it becomes dangerous and people are getting hurt it should be stopped.

As for the rioting, "support" is not the best word. "Understand" is a better word. I don't like to see rioting, or anything that hurts innocent people in any way. But I also think it's important not to fall into the trap of clutching my pearls about the rioting when it's in response to something that's so vastly, infinitely worse. I also try to put myself in someone else's shoes. I'm mad as hell about it, furious. And then I think - how would I react if this was my community? If there was a conclusive video of my father or neighbor or friend getting choked to death for nine minutes and no arrests were made for days, how would I react? What if someone knocked down the door of my brother or sister or coworker's house with a battering ram while they were sleeping and shot them eight times? And there wasn't a single criminal charge? Or if vigilantes chased them down and shot them while they were jogging and it took months for anyone to do anything? I certainly wouldn't be polite about it. I'd probably start a riot too. Just typing all of this actually makes me feel guilty that I'm not on the streets about this right now.

If your reaction to any of those things is to hurt people who didn’t do it or burn their stuff then you are a crappy person. I had a close relative murdered, if I then burn down a random restaurant it’s not “understandable”, it’s me being an a—hole who need to control myself like an adult while I think it over in jail

and chaz was their name not a fox news boogeyman, there is a large crowd violently expelling police and random folks trying to drag people into interrogation tents if they don’t think they belong. Along with a killing the crowds impeded the cops from getting to. It’s not peaceful at all (i have a friend who lives there and has been, not just news reports)

 

[frenchyn]

Exactly. He should learn the why quickly because telling people "my hospital intubates agitated patients and psychiatric patients to keep staff safe" is likely to get you in major hot water.

Dude I am not MS3...and I have health care experience before and these are from my previous health care experience...I told you we intubate the patients because of agitation and it is true...I did not say psychiatric lol...these are just acute high on drug patients that need to be intubated and sedated for a day or two before the drug wear off...indeed none of the patients I said have psychiatric problem...purely toxicology problem.

also I mentioned the drips that the patients have to be on to keep them calm...I did not know that I have to explain to you a doctor that the patients would be resp depress being in these drips...also we intubate the patients before he needed these drips because we knew he would need hella a lot of medication to calm down...are you a psych doc who is questioning a toxicologist decision on managing a tox patients? Again this is NOT a psych patients.

patients transferred from another hospital intoxicated....10 people had to hold him down...regardless 10 people hold him down and leather restraints...he is still kicking the rail trying to hit and bite people...he is hurting himself and others....we tried to give him haldol and Ativan but it is not helping...the toxicologist knew he would need Lot of medication...so he did RSI to intubate the guy...then start him on drips...dude ended up needed and max out on versed propofol precedex fentanyl and Valium IVP Q1. This is the type of patients I am talking about and what I called social intubation...we did that for 2 reasons: one to keep him and staffs safe (who would want to hold him down until drugs kick in? This dude obviously will need a lot of medication and with all these he may not protect his airway) 2. To allow the drug to wear off in 1-2 days. The point is the toxicologist know any other drugs that you would give to calm a patient down won’t work with this one...and we would need more that that, so he chose to intubate the patient then start him on those drugs...does it make sense now lol? If you still disagree, you tell me how you would manage this patient differently...before you mouth yourself off with malpractice. Again hospital has lawyers...you don’t know about law better than lawyers...it is sad American culture where even doctor mouth off malpractice without trying to understand the full case first...then you wonder why people practice defensive medicine...because of patients and doctors like you who are ready to say malpractice at any second.

I apologize if I did not mention resp depress or whatever? I mentioned the drips and without intubation no one will be able to handle that without intubation...I thot it is a medical knowledge that I would not have to explain to doctors and medical students.

 

[frenchyn]

It has the feel of someone who doesn't quite get the why behind what they're seeing.

Agitated patient, lots of drugs aren't calming them down, so we stick in a breathing tube. But they didn't see the step where the drugs that finally get them calmed down depress breathing to the extent that said tube is needed.

We intubate the patients w all the intubation drugs before we started him on sedating drugs...we did not wait until his resp depress...dude when you have these patients with 10+ people in the room to keep the patient down you will know that he will eventually need hella a lot of sedating medication...you don’t have to wait until he resp depress because 1. Use your medical expertise (he will need hella a lot) 2. He would hurt someone before he gets there as well...3. You don’t typically put non intubated patients on versed propofol do you?

 

[frenchyn]

Wait a minute... this dude is an ms3? A med student? Two pages of comments ago he was on my case about not having experience... and here he is. Talking like he's been an attending for twenty years.

Come on bro... you've been hammering a meaningless case against an actual psychiatrist about the problems with his practice and his practice style. You're a student dude. Show a bit of respect. No one cares if you never involve psych or when you involve psych. LOL.

EDIT: I'm all for the debate and the conversation we've been having in this thread, it's enjoyable. But you can't talk down to someone for not having experience when you disagree with their opinions and you're virtually at the same level of training as them.

I am not MS3....and I worked in ICu before medical school...so I am speaking from my experience....plus I did not not say police should not be called to a drunk guy

 

[bananafish94]

Actually, I can question the effectiveness of their methods and I find nothing “civil” about their “disobedience”. The killing of innocent civilians/police officers and the wanton destruction of property is wrong. Period. More people have died in the aftermath of George Floyd (actually innocent people I might add, not people in the process of committing crimes) than the number of unarmed black people dying at the hands of police. At some point the scales tip.

This comment is horrifically ignorant at best and absolutely hateful at worst. Certainly the worst I've seen in the thread so far. Most of these are just off the top of my head, the remainder took no more than 5 minutes to look up. You really need to do some soul searching about your own biases and worldview and do better to inform yourself before commenting on something you clearly have no knowledge on.

George Floyd - Choked to death.
Breonna Taylor - Shot to death in her home.
Tamir Rice - 12 year old child. Shot to death in a park.
Philando Castille - Shot to death during a traffic stop.
Laquan McDonald - Shot 16 times in the back.
Eric Garner - Choked to death.
Trayvon Martin - Shot to death, 17 year old child.
Freddie Gray - Spine crushed.
Walter Scott - unarmed, shot during a traffic stop. A taser was planted by his body to try and justify it.
Troy Robinson - Traffic stop. Tasered.
Darrius Stewart - Traffic stop. Shot. 19 years old.
Oscar Grant - Shot in the back as he was being held down. 22 years old.
Bettie Jones - Shot in her own home.
Natasha McKenna - tasered, in jail, while shackled.
Charles Kinsey - Mental health worker doing his job. Not killed, but shot and left to bleed out on the ground.
Tanisha Anderson - Killed during mental health crisis in her own home.
Paul O'Neill - Shot in the back, fleeing from a scene. Unarmed.
Ahmaud Arbery - Shot by former police officer while jogging.
Botham Jean - Murdered in his own home when a police officer entered it.
Keith Childress - Unarmed, shot while walking down the street.
Eric Harris - Shot in the back while running away.
Alteria Woods - Shot in her home during a raid. She was pregnant.
Michael Sabbie - He was killed in a jail cell. Somehow I doubt he was armed.
Nathaniel Pickett - He was an unarmed mentally ill man crawling away from the police when he was shot.

Please enlighten me. How many people have been killed in the protests? It bears mentioning that this list represents an infinitesimally small fraction of the true number of innocent people who have been killed, the names of which we will probably never truly know.

Also, as I've said before, criminals aren't supposed to be shot either.

 

[Mass Effect]

I am not MS3....

Then why are you so concerned with your away rotations, ERAS, and Step 2?

.

.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Away rotations, Residency Interviews, and the ERAS Timeline: The Coalition's Recommendations

The organizations in this coalition include: AACOM, AAMC, ACCME, ACGME, AMA, AOGME, AOA, CMSS (OPDA), ECFMG, FSMB, LCME, NBME, and NBOME. The documents that contain their recommendations can be found here...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[frenchyn]

Then why are you so concerned with your away rotations, ERAS, and Step 2?

.

.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Away rotations, Residency Interviews, and the ERAS Timeline: The Coalition's Recommendations

The organizations in this coalition include: AACOM, AAMC, ACCME, ACGME, AMA, AOGME, AOA, CMSS (OPDA), ECFMG, FSMB, LCME, NBME, and NBOME. The documents that contain their recommendations can be found here...

forums.studentdoctor.net

That’s why are you so concerned about a sdn? Hahaha it is my time I want to spend it however I want...I edited my post....I am curious though, if you disagree with social intubation, you tell me how you would manage the patient differently then I would sure apologize and hat off to you...if you can’t then don’t just go malpractice everywhere llol

 

[deleted480308]

That’s why are you so concerned about a sdn? Hahaha it is my time I want to spend it however I want...I edited my post....I am curious though, if you disagree with social intubation, you tell me how you would manage the patient differently then I would sure apologize and hat off to you...if you can’t then don’t just go malpractice everywhere llol

It’s not necessarily bad to be a ms3 (or 4). It’s ok

 

[deleted480308]

This comment is horrifically ignorant at best and absolutely hateful at worst. Certainly the worst I've seen in the thread so far. Most of these are just off the top of my head, the remainder took no more than 5 minutes to look up. You really need to do some soul searching about your own biases and worldview and do better to inform yourself before commenting on something you clearly have no knowledge on.

George Floyd - Choked to death.
Breonna Taylor - Shot to death in her home.
Tamir Rice - 12 year old child. Shot to death in a park.
Philando Castille - Shot to death during a traffic stop.
Laquan McDonald - Shot 16 times in the back.
Eric Garner - Choked to death.
Trayvon Martin - Shot to death, 17 year old child.
Freddie Gray - Spine crushed.
Walter Scott - unarmed, shot during a traffic stop. A taser was planted by his body to try and justify it.
Troy Robinson - Traffic stop. Tasered.
Darrius Stewart - Traffic stop. Shot. 19 years old.
Oscar Grant - Shot in the back as he was being held down. 22 years old.
Bettie Jones - Shot in her own home.
Natasha McKenna - tasered, in jail, while shackled.
Charles Kinsey - Mental health worker doing his job. Not killed, but shot and left to bleed out on the ground.
Tanisha Anderson - Killed during mental health crisis in her own home.
Paul O'Neill - Shot in the back, fleeing from a scene. Unarmed.
Ahmaud Arbery - Shot by former police officer while jogging.
Botham Jean - Murdered in his own home when a police officer entered it.
Keith Childress - Unarmed, shot while walking down the street.
Eric Harris - Shot in the back while running away.
Alteria Woods - Shot in her home during a raid. She was pregnant.
Michael Sabbie - He was killed in a jail cell. Somehow I doubt he was armed.
Nathaniel Pickett - He was an unarmed mentally ill man crawling away from the police when he was shot.

Please enlighten me. How many people have been killed in the protests? It bears mentioning that this list represents an infinitesimally small fraction of the true number of innocent people who have been killed, the names of which we will probably never truly know.

Also, as I've said before, criminals aren't supposed to be shot either.

I actually agree with you that it’s not a contest and winning a death toll race isn’t how you determine if an individual is acting appropriately

since you asked, i googled....not endorsing this count, just passing off info.https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/

 

[frenchyn]

It’s not necessarily bad to be a ms3 (or 4). It’s ok

Well I am not MS 3 lol...More like going to be a 4+...because I took year off to do something extra Why does it matter what year of medical school I am when I am talking about my experience before medical school btw? So we were talking about not attacking race but we are attack people year in medical school now? Remember not all of us are traditional medical students some have health care experience prior to medical school...

now since this psychiatric disagreed with social intubation and how a toxicologist managed his tox patient...how about he teach us how he would manage this patient then we all can learn...I am actually willing to learn and very interested in Correct way to manage this patient...since you disagree w the toxicologist...

 

[Osteosaur]

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

Is the violence what's so effective? There are plenty of instances where political violence is demonized and causes a backlash.

It seems more its only effective because you have a very small cabal of corporations willing to financially blacklist and censor people who question the present narratives, or express any kind of nuanced view outside of, "because of systemic racism, when your home or business is destroyed you should reflect on your role in these events. Equality seems like oppression when you're in power!" You may think this is fine right now because you're on the 'right side of history.' All it shows is the power these entities have over your life and elected officials, power that should be yours.

Eventually you, as a physician who is supposed to be "leader" may have some other divergent opinion years from now. Do you want to be fired, have your family attacked, license pulled, and home burned (with everyone cheering it on) because Twitter or NPR says different?

The current climate of fear will not lead to a more open society.

 

[deleted480308]

Well I am not MS 3 lol...More like going to be a 4+...because I took year off to do something extra Why does it matter what year of medical school I am when I am talking about my experience before medical school btw? So we were talking about not attacking race but we are attack people year in medical school now? Remember not all of us are traditional medical students some have health care experience prior to medical school...

now since this psychiatric disagreed with social intubation and how a toxicologist managed his tox patient...how about he teach us how he would manage this patient then we all can learn...

Tone down the victimhood complex. You made some comments that were phrased poorly enough to betray a potential lack of knowledge and be questioned by some folks with pretty solid (claimed) credentials. You were then found to be a med students, I remember being one, I had no idea then how little I knew. Being in the room prior (rn, rt, etc) just doesn’t mean you really have the depth of knowledge to know what’s happening.

it’s ok, we’ve all been there. All of us have tasted humble pie, you get used to it

 

[deleted737701]

I have to admit my bias here and yield that my baseline assumption is that anything with a catchy name that's covered extensively by Fox is some sort of boogeyman that's being blown way out of proportion. So I don't know a whole lot about CHAZ. But as long as it's peaceful don't really care and assume it will slowly fizzle out. I did hear that someone got shot and so if it becomes dangerous and people are getting hurt it should be stopped.

As for the rioting, "support" is not the best word. "Understand" is a better word. I don't like to see rioting, or anything that hurts innocent people in any way. But I also think it's important not to fall into the trap of clutching my pearls about the rioting when it's in response to something that's so vastly, infinitely worse. I also try to put myself in someone else's shoes. I'm mad as hell about it, furious. And then I think - how would I react if this was my community? If there was a conclusive video of my father or neighbor or friend getting choked to death for nine minutes and no arrests were made for days, how would I react? What if someone knocked down the door of my brother or sister or coworker's house with a battering ram while they were sleeping and shot them eight times? And there wasn't a single criminal charge? Or if vigilantes chased them down and shot them while they were jogging and it took months for anyone to do anything? I certainly wouldn't be polite about it. I'd probably start a riot too. Just typing all of this actually makes me feel guilty that I'm not on the streets about this right now.

The reason people dislike rioting and looting is because it destroys the livelihood of innocent people who did nothing wrong. Although you are correct that police brutality is wrong and should be protested using civil disobedience/nonviolent actions, it does not make moral or legal sense to hurt innocent people in that process. We definitely have a strong duty to protect free speech, dissent and nonviolent protesting but not violence, rioting or looting. When you justify rioting or looting by seeing it as "understandable" you are essentially implicitly ok with letting the action go unpunished. We should strive to hold people who perform police brutality accountable to the fullest extent of the law based on their personal actions rather than justify actions that hurts innocents. For example, I am a minority and if I an extrajudicial killing occurred in my community do you think it would be "understandable" for the people in my minority community to go and burn down a random white person's house or business who did nothing wrong? I don't see how any rational person would believe that this is justifiable.

The reason that people dislike CHAZ/CHOP is because protestors have decided to take over a community that may or may not want them there without the community's input. Many of the residents who live in capitol hill seem to be coming out and saying that they don't want the protestors there anymore as they are causing public nuisances at night, harassing residents of the area and disturbing local businesses. People who are attempting to film in CHOP are having their phones taken away. This is extremely ironic/concerning because they are basically trying to suppress free speech and dissenting opinions in an area that was created to support free speech and dissent. The very protestors in CHOP who were complaining about cops not having body cams on are now not allowing cameras. There are a myriad of other issues with CHOP that need to be discussed as well. There have been multiple shootings in the area and police/EMS have had trouble getting into the area due to barricades and protestors which from my understanding directly led to loss of life. The citizens that live in Capitol Hill that aren't a part of the protests are being deprived of essential public services like the police, firefighters and EMS which they are paying taxes for. I believe the residents in capitol hill are gearing up to file a class action lawsuit against the city of Seattle for this very reason. It seems that the main issue with CHOP is the fact that a group of people that don't live in the area decided to take over a community and impose their beliefs and rule of law onto the residents of the community without any kind of civic input or voting that involved the residents of Capitol Hill.

 

[frenchyn]

Tone down the victimhood complex. You made some comments that were phrased poorly enough to betray a potential lack of knowledge and be questioned by some folks with pretty solid (claimed) credentials. You were then found to be a med students, I remember being one, I had no idea then how little I knew. Being in the room prior (rn, rt, etc) just doesn’t mean you really have the depth of knowledge to know what’s happening.

it’s ok, we’ve all been there. All of us have tasted humble pie, you get used to it

No I don’t think I know everything ...but a psych does not mean he deals with these patients or in ICU stage...As I mentioned, I was w psych and the psych attending chose to transfer a patient to ICU for social intubation also...they may deal with patients later but not at this acute ICU stage...a neurosurgeon does not know about heart...we all know we have our own expertise...this is a toxicologist manage a tox patient so we have a psych question his approach to patient so how is that different than me question a psyc?

also if I worded or sounded wrong, how about he tell us how he would manage this patient differently so instead of argument we turn this into a learning environment?

 

[deleted480308]

No I don’t think I know everything ...but a psych does not mean he deals with these patients or in ICU stage...As I mentioned, I was w psych and the psych attending chose to transfer a patient to ICU for social intubation also...they may deal with patients later but not at this acute ICU stage...a neurosurgeon does not know about heart...we all know we have our own expertise...this is a toxicologist manage a tox patient so we have a psych question his approach to patient so how is that different than me question a psyc?

also if I worded or sounded wrong, how about he tell us how he would manage this patient differently so instead of argument we turn this into a learning environment?

I feel it’s very possible there is a knowledge gap impeding your ability to really interpret everything that was going on and to relay it in a way that makes sense to another attending.

either way, i offered my advice. Carry on

 

[frenchyn]

I feel it’s very possible there is a knowledge gap impeding your ability to really interpret everything that was going on and to relay it in a way that makes sense to another attending.

either way, i offered my advice. Carry on

If so, why don’t you or he teach me and the toxicologist what you or he would do differently in this case instead of accusing me “knowledge gap”? Students don’t learn if someone just tell them you don’t know without explaining what you know or do differently lol. I hope that is not how you teach “you are wrong you don’t know take my advice carry on”

“patients transferred from another hospital intoxicated....he pulled out his IO...10 people had to hold him down...regardless 10 people hold him down and leather restraints...he is still kicking the rail trying to hit and bite people...he is hurting himself and others....we tried to give him haldol and Ativan but it is not helping...the toxicologist knew he would need Lot of medication...so he did RSI to intubate the guy...then start him on drips...dude ended up needed and max out on versed propofol precedex fentanyl and Valium IVP Q1. This is the type of patients I am talking about and what I called social intubation...we did that for 2 reasons: one to keep him and staffs safe (who would want to hold him down until drugs kick in? This dude obviously will need a lot of medication and with all these he may not protect his airway) 2. To allow the drug to wear off in 1-2 days. The point is the toxicologist know any other drugs that you would give to calm a patient down won’t work with this one...and we would need more that that, so he chose to intubate the patient then start him on those drugs” the dude was intubated for 2 days and got out of ICU next day...no one got hurt.

 

[bananafish94]

If your reaction to any of those things is to hurt people who didn’t do it or burn their stuff then you are a crappy person. I had a close relative murdered, if I then burn down a random restaurant it’s not “understandable”, it’s me being an a—hole who need to control myself like an adult while I think it over in jail

Well they are doing something illegal and obviously risk arrest and imprisonment when they do it. Nobody disputes that. And maybe I should have made this more clear, but it's more than just isolated incidents. Tragedies happen, but these are more than individual tragedies - they are happening in the context of a pattern that activists have been trying to tell everyone about for years and years without any change. They've been denigrated and ignored. I say it's understandable because I can understand it, that's all. If this was happening over and over again in my community and someone close to me was killed by police without anyone doing anything, I can't say I wouldn't riot if that's what it took to get justice - I don't care what kind of person that makes me. Obviously, I fully condemn any sort of violence against other people.

and chaz was their name not a fox news boogeyman, there is a large crowd violently expelling police and random folks trying to drag people into interrogation tents if they don’t think they belong. Along with a killing the crowds impeded the cops from getting to. It’s not peaceful at all (i have a friend who lives there and has been, not just news reports)

I have personally not heard this from people I know that live there but I fully admit that I have done basically zero research into this so I can't really comment on it.

 

[bananafish94]

Is the violence what's so effective? There are plenty of instances where political violence is demonized and causes a backlash.

It seems more its only effective because you have a very small cabal of corporations willing to financially blacklist and censor people who question the present narratives, or express any kind of nuanced view outside of, "because of systemic racism, when your home or business is destroyed you should reflect on your role in these events. Equality seems like oppression when you're in power!" You may think this is fine right now because you're on the 'right side of history.' All it shows is the power these entities have over your life and elected officials, power that should be yours.

Eventually you, as a physician who is supposed to be "leader" may have some other divergent opinion years from now. Do you want to be fired, have your family attacked, license pulled, and home burned (with everyone cheering it on) because Twitter or NPR says different?

The current climate of fear will not lead to a more open society.

I don't really know what you're talking about. Can you provide an example of a physician having their family attacked or their license pulled and their home burned because they disagree with something on Twitter or NPR? For the record, like I've said, I feel terribly for anybody whose home or business is damaged in the protests. I would be very upset if it happened to me. But let's not let that overshadow the vastly more important issue of innocent Black people getting killed by police.

 

[deleted1005514]

Well they are doing something illegal and obviously risk arrest and imprisonment when they do it. Nobody disputes that. And maybe I should have made this more clear, but it's more than just isolated incidents. Tragedies happen, but these are more than individual tragedies - they are happening in the context of a pattern that activists have been trying to tell everyone about for years and years without any change. They've been denigrated and ignored. I say it's understandable because I can understand it, that's all. If this was happening over and over again in my community and someone close to me was killed by police without anyone doing anything, I can't say I wouldn't riot if that's what it took to get justice - I don't care what kind of person that makes me. Obviously, I fully condemn any sort of violence against other people.


I have personally not heard this from people I know that live there but I fully admit that I have done basically zero research into this so I can't really comment on it.

What if you owned a business, and someone felt so frustrated by this situation that they began rioting in the area where your business was, throwing rocks through the windows and setting the place on fire, maybe even stealing your goods. Would you still be so understanding? What if it was your grandfather’s business, and his whole life savings was wrapped up in it?

It is understandable that people are frustrated to the point of wanting to do something drastic to call awareness to the situation and open up a dialogue in order to bring about reform. It is not understandable (to me) that anyone would attempt to accomplish this by destroying property or put the lives of others in danger.

 

[TRPMinus]

Actually, I can question the effectiveness of their methods and I find nothing “civil” about their “disobedience”. The killing of innocent civilians/police officers and the wanton destruction of property is wrong. Period. More people have died in the aftermath of George Floyd (actually innocent people I might add, not people in the process of committing crimes) than the number of unarmed black people dying at the hands of police. At some point the scales tip.

This comment is horrifically ignorant at best and absolutely hateful at worst. Certainly the worst I've seen in the thread so far. Most of these are just off the top of my head, the remainder took no more than 5 minutes to look up. You really need to do some soul searching about your own biases and worldview and do better to inform yourself before commenting on something you clearly have no knowledge on.

George Floyd - Choked to death.
Breonna Taylor - Shot to death in her home.
Tamir Rice - 12 year old child. Shot to death in a park.
Philando Castille - Shot to death during a traffic stop.
Laquan McDonald - Shot 16 times in the back.
Eric Garner - Choked to death.
Trayvon Martin - Shot to death, 17 year old child.
Freddie Gray - Spine crushed.
Walter Scott - unarmed, shot during a traffic stop. A taser was planted by his body to try and justify it.
Troy Robinson - Traffic stop. Tasered.
Darrius Stewart - Traffic stop. Shot. 19 years old.
Oscar Grant - Shot in the back as he was being held down. 22 years old.
Bettie Jones - Shot in her own home.
Natasha McKenna - tasered, in jail, while shackled.
Charles Kinsey - Mental health worker doing his job. Not killed, but shot and left to bleed out on the ground.
Tanisha Anderson - Killed during mental health crisis in her own home.
Paul O'Neill - Shot in the back, fleeing from a scene. Unarmed.
Ahmaud Arbery - Shot by former police officer while jogging.
Botham Jean - Murdered in his own home when a police officer entered it.
Keith Childress - Unarmed, shot while walking down the street.
Eric Harris - Shot in the back while running away.
Alteria Woods - Shot in her home during a raid. She was pregnant.
Michael Sabbie - He was killed in a jail cell. Somehow I doubt he was armed.
Nathaniel Pickett - He was an unarmed mentally ill man crawling away from the police when he was shot.

Please enlighten me. How many people have been killed in the protests? It bears mentioning that this list represents an infinitesimally small fraction of the true number of innocent people who have been killed, the names of which we will probably never truly know.

Also, as I've said before, criminals aren't supposed to be shot either.

Spare me your righteous indignation. Obviously there are shootings that are unjustified, but your list above completely lacks context, and some of these people were shot during the commission of crimes. Let's take Breonna Taylor. Police show up to the house, are shot at through a door, and they return fire through the door. Ms. Taylor is unfortunately killed. You would have to be crazy to say that she was shot because she was black. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and unfortunately kept company (her boyfriend) that thought it was ok to shoot at the police. Actions and choices have consequences.

According the the Washington Post, nine unarmed black people were shot by on-duty police officers in 2019. Keep in mind, them being unarmed does not make them "not a threat". Even so, this is a small number. That doesn't mean all of the shootings are justified or that the people don't matter, but it is a small number. Unfortunately as a nation we've decided to cause the deaths of 19 more people with the recent rioting and violence. People should just protest peacefully to avoid further death and destruction.

So in the end, I really just stated the facts. More people have died as a result of the current violence (19 total, 14 of them black) than the number of black people that died unarmed at the hands of police in 2019 (9 total). And no we shouldn't place a value on things by the death toll, but it's hard not to see a twisted irony in this.

 

[bananafish94]

The reason people dislike rioting and looting is because it destroys the livelihood of innocent people who did nothing wrong. Although you are correct that police brutality is wrong and should be protested using civil disobedience/nonviolent actions, it does not make moral or legal sense to hurt innocent people in that process.

I agree with everything you say here. Saying that something is understandable is not saying that something makes moral or legal sense. People are furious and unheard, and might do things that don't make sense - and I can understand that.

When you justify rioting or looting by seeing it as "understandable" you are essentially implicitly ok with letting the action go unpunished.

I'm not justifying anything. If you burn down a building you should be charged with the appropriate crime. I never said otherwise and anyone who claims I did is putting words in my mouth.

For example, I am a minority and if I an extrajudicial killing occurred in my community do you think it would be "understandable" for the people in my minority community to go and burn down a random white person's house or business who did nothing wrong? I don't see how any rational person would believe that this is justifiable.

Please point to any comment I've made where I've said rioting is justifiable. Because if I did, I used the wrong word and should have chosen a better one. I'm trying to choose my words very carefully because this is a sensitive topic. Based on the limited information you provide in this hypothetical, it does not sound understandable.

The reason that people dislike CHAZ/CHOP is because protestors have decided to take over a community that may or may not want them there without the community's input. Many of the residents who live in capitol hill seem to be coming out and saying that they don't want the protestors there anymore as they are causing public nuisances at night, harassing residents of the area and disturbing local businesses. People who are attempting to film in CHOP are having their phones taken away. This is extremely ironic/concerning because they are basically trying to suppress free speech and dissenting opinions in an area that was created to support free speech and dissent. The very protestors in CHOP who were complaining about cops not having body cams on are now not allowing cameras. There are a myriad of other issues with CHOP that need to be discussed as well. There have been multiple shootings in the area and police/EMS have had trouble getting into the area due to barricades and protestors which from my understanding directly led to loss of life. The citizens that live in Capitol Hill that aren't a part of the protests are being deprived of essential public services like the police, firefighters and EMS which they are paying taxes for. I believe the residents in capitol hill are gearing up to file a class action lawsuit against the city of Seattle for this very reason. It seems that the main issue with CHOP is the fact that a group of people that don't live in the area decided to take over a community and impose their beliefs and rule of law onto the residents of the community without any kind of civic input or voting that involved the residents of Capitol Hill.

These sound like reasonable concerns but I don't know enough to address them. I don't really know anything about CHAZ other than the surface level information. I have to read more about it.

 

[bananafish94]

What if you owned a business, and someone felt so frustrated by this situation that they began rioting in the area where your business was, throwing rocks through the windows and setting the place on fire, maybe even stealing your goods. Would you still be so understanding? What if it was your grandfather’s business, and his whole life savings was wrapped up in it?

I'd be furious. I've addressed this. I don't like it, I don't support it, I feel awful for anyone whose business has been damaged. I do understand the anger and frustration that would cause someone to do it, but obviously that doesn't mean they should be absolved of the consequences. Again though, don't forget the issue that drove the rioting in the first place. We're talking about extrajudicial killings of innocent people.

 

[bananafish94]

Spare me your righteous indignation. Obviously there are shootings that are unjustified, but your list above completely lacks context, and some of these people were shot during the commission of crimes. Let's take Breonna Taylor. Police show up to the house, are shot at through a door, and they return fire through the door. Ms. Taylor is unfortunately killed. You would have to be crazy to say that she was shot because she was black. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and unfortunately kept company (her boyfriend) that thought it was ok to shoot at the police. Actions and choices have consequences.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on whether or not someone should be allowed to own a gun and use it for self defense? I'm going to make an assumption about you and say that you identify as a conservative who supports the second amendment and self defense - if that's incorrect, I'm more than willing to retract that statement. If somebody broke down the door of your house without knocking, and wasn't even wearing a police uniform, why shouldn't somebody be able to defend themselves? Even in this completely unambiguous case of a completely innocent person getting killed by the police under horrific circumstances, you still manage to blame the victim because she "kept company with someone who thought it was ok to shoot at the police." Wow.

According the the Washington Post, nine unarmed black people were shot by on-duty police officers in 2019. Keep in mind, them being unarmed does not make them "not a threat". Even so, this is a small number. That doesn't mean all of the shootings are justified or that the people don't matter, but it is a small number. Unfortunately as a nation we've decided to cause the deaths of 19 more people with the recent rioting and violence. People should just protest peacefully to avoid further death and destruction.

So in the end, I really just stated the facts. More people have died as a result of the current violence (19 total, 14 of them black) than the number of black people that died unarmed at the hands of police in 2019 (9 total). And no we shouldn't place a value on things by the death toll, but it's hard not to see a twisted irony in this.

Can you please direct me to where you initially stated that more people have died "unarmed at the hands of police in 2019?" I was responding to your assertion that more people have died in the protests than "the number of unarmed black people getting killed by the police." Sounds to me like you're trying to dramatically move the goalposts without anyone noticing. Also, please cite your Washington Post source. I checked their database and get a very different result.

 

[Damson]

You can assess a cause as noble and vital for this country's growth, and that opposing positions are a distraction from the truth. I can make that same assessment about your position. The principal's point isn't even in direct conflict with your position - she's saying she does not tolerate the violent protestors / do not classify the entire police department as widely racist.

You don't get to decide which side of an argument must stay silent. You can decide that your position is correct and infallible all you like, but you don't get to signal your virtue and justify punishing speakers you find offensive (she didn't read the room) (for expressing her controversial opinion, we should question her ability to perform her job) (the nation is in heated debate about this issue, you speak up and get whacked for it, you deserve it).

The current climate of fear will not lead to a more open society.

/thread

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

We intubate the patients w all the intubation drugs before we started him on sedating drugs...we did not wait until his resp depress...dude when you have these patients with 10+ people in the room to keep the patient down you will know that he will eventually need hella a lot of sedating medication...you don’t have to wait until he resp depress because 1. Use your medical expertise (he will need hella a lot) 2. He would hurt someone before he gets there as well...3. You don’t typically put non intubated patients on versed propofol do you?

As to #3, all the time. Colonoscopy, wisdom teeth, egg retrieval for IVF all use versed and propofol and don't require intubation.

 

[Lawpy]

Wait, why are we talking about multiple different things at once in this thread?

 

[TRPMinus]

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on whether or not someone should be allowed to own a gun and use it for self defense? I'm going to make an assumption about you and say that you identify as a conservative who supports the second amendment and self defense - if that's incorrect, I'm more than willing to retract that statement. If somebody broke down the door of your house without knocking, and wasn't even wearing a police uniform, why shouldn't somebody be able to defend themselves? Even in this completely unambiguous case of a completely innocent person getting killed by the police under horrific circumstances, you still manage to blame the victim because she "kept company with someone who thought it was ok to shoot at the police." Wow.


Can you please direct me to where you initially stated that more people have died "unarmed at the hands of police in 2019?" I was responding to your assertion that more people have died in the protests than "the number of unarmed black people getting killed by the police." Sounds to me like you're trying to dramatically move the goalposts without anyone noticing. Also, please cite your Washington Post source. I checked their database and get a very different result.

If you lie down with dogs, you might get fleas. If you live with a drug dealer, I’m willing to go out on a limb and say your chance of being involved in violence is higher than average. Ms. Taylor didn’t deserve to die and while it is sad, how do you blame the police for returning fire after being fired upon? People defending themselves have the responsibility to identify their target prior to firing. Average people don’t just start shooting through doors. The police are justified in returning fire through the door because they were first fired upon. Notice how the police didn’t just start out by shooting through the door? Also the police are required to announce their presence.

 

[frenchyn]

As to #3, all the time. Colonoscopy, wisdom teeth, egg retrieval for IVF all use versed and propofol and don't require intubation.

I am talking about maxing out on propofol and versed Drip lol...I hope you don’t put a patient on max out dose of propofol versed and fentanyl drips without intubating them I am not talking about pushing small low dose propofol for conscious sedation...did not even think I have to point out this difference...Idr exact versed dose may be 15 or 25 per hr...but 50 propofol 250 mcg fen...10 Valium Q1 you see anyone on all these without some kinda airway? I personall never see anyone on 50 propofol alone without any type of airway lol. Don’t forget the precedex

 

[TRPMinus]

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on whether or not someone should be allowed to own a gun and use it for self defense? I'm going to make an assumption about you and say that you identify as a conservative who supports the second amendment and self defense - if that's incorrect, I'm more than willing to retract that statement. If somebody broke down the door of your house without knocking, and wasn't even wearing a police uniform, why shouldn't somebody be able to defend themselves? Even in this completely unambiguous case of a completely innocent person getting killed by the police under horrific circumstances, you still manage to blame the victim because she "kept company with someone who thought it was ok to shoot at the police." Wow.


Can you please direct me to where you initially stated that more people have died "unarmed at the hands of police in 2019?" I was responding to your assertion that more people have died in the protests than "the number of unarmed black people getting killed by the police." Sounds to me like you're trying to dramatically move the goalposts without anyone noticing. Also, please cite your Washington Post source. I checked their database and get a very different result.

Ah I get what you’re saying. I was referring to recent times, you were referring to all time. It’s a miscommunication. All time killings of unarmed black people obviously beats the last two weeks of violence. I’m not sure how many people have been killed all time in rioting and that seems too far down the rabbit hole to be worth discussing. You don’t have to take everything so personally you know. Believe it or not, people are allowed to disagree with your views. Give me a sec for citation plz.

 

[deleted480308]

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on whether or not someone should be allowed to own a gun and use it for self defense? I'm going to make an assumption about you and say that you identify as a conservative who supports the second amendment and self defense - if that's incorrect, I'm more than willing to retract that statement. If somebody broke down the door of your house without knocking, and wasn't even wearing a police uniform, why shouldn't somebody be able to defend themselves? Even in this completely unambiguous case of a completely innocent person getting killed by the police under horrific circumstances, you still manage to blame the victim because she "kept company with someone who thought it was ok to shoot at the police." Wow.


Can you please direct me to where you initially stated that more people have died "unarmed at the hands of police in 2019?" I was responding to your assertion that more people have died in the protests than "the number of unarmed black people getting killed by the police." Sounds to me like you're trying to dramatically move the goalposts without anyone noticing. Also, please cite your Washington Post source. I checked their database and get a very different result.

I’ll interject here and note that I pretty much hate no knock warrants and there should be far less of them

 

[RangerBob]

I am talking about maxing out on propofol and versed Drip lol...I hope you don’t put a patient on max out dose of propofol versed and fentanyl drips without intubating them I am not talking about pushing small low dose propofol for conscious sedation...did not even think I have to point out this difference...Idr exact versed dose may be 15 or 25 per hr...but 50 propofol 250 mcg fen...10 Valium Q1 you see anyone on all these without some kinda airway? I personall never see anyone on 50 propofol alone without any type of airway lol. Don’t forget the precedex

I genuinely hope you don’t use the same attitude with your attendings that you’re using here. At least four practicing attendings have responded to you, and I believe you’ve used the phrase “lol” in rather condescending responses to all of them, in addition to dismissing their advice/recommendations.

I recommend you reflect on your attitude, because that kind of attitude gets people in a lot of trouble in residency.

 

[Lawpy]

I genuinely hope you don’t use the same attitude with your attendings that you’re using here. At least four practicing attendings have responded to you, and I believe you’ve used the phrase “lol” in rather condescending responses to all of them, in addition to dismissing their advice/recommendations.

I recommend you reflect on your attitude, because that kind of attitude gets people in a lot of trouble in residency.

The attitude happens regularly on SDN unfortunately

 

[bananafish94]

If you lie down with dogs, you might get fleas.

Awful.

If you live with a drug dealer, I’m willing to go out on a limb and say your chance of being involved in violence is higher than average.

Not that it makes even the slightest difference, but do you have a source before you start accusing him of crimes?

Average people don’t just start shooting through doors.

How could he have shot through the door if the police used a battering ram to break the door down before he was aware of their presence? Can I get a source on this?

Notice how the police didn’t just start out by shooting through the door?

No, they started by breaking down somebody's door wearing plainclothes in the middle of the night while they were sleeping. Is that more acceptable?

Also the police are required to announce their presence.

Then why didn't they?

 

[bananafish94]

Ah I get what you’re saying. I was referring to recent times, you were referring to all time. It’s a miscommunication. All time killings of unarmed black people obviously beats the last two weeks of violence. I’m not sure how many people have been killed all time in rioting and that seems too far down the rabbit hole to be worth discussing. You don’t have to take everything so personally you know. Believe it or not, people are allowed to disagree with your views. Give me a sec for citation plz.

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm making an effort to engage everyone who responds to me in a thoughtful discussion. You made a preposterous claim unsupported by any evidence and now you're walking it back. People are free to disagree with my views, but not with undisputed facts.

 

[frenchyn]

I genuinely hope you don’t use the same attitude with your attendings that you’re using here. At least four practicing attendings have responded to you, and I believe you’ve used the phrase “lol” in rather condescending responses to all of them, in addition to dismissing their advice/recommendations.

I recommend you reflect on your attitude, because that kind of attitude gets people in a lot of trouble in residency.

OMG this is a online forum...just because you are attending who knows where..regardless if you are not my attending in real life I still have to treat you as attending? So you expect your family or random person on the street treat an attending as an attending no matter where and when? What a god complex lol

Also remember a neurologist don’t necessarily know about cardiology...like I said every of us have own expertise...it is not like I am not willing to learn from them...they questioned the toxicologist way of handling a tox patient but when I asked how they would handle this patient no one say anything...

sometime message and attitude don’t convey correctly and appropriately...but no mean I am looking down on them but if you said something is wrong but can’t give a correct answer, then how do you expect me to take your advice and answer lol? I respect people by their competency and attitude...not by their title “attending resident or medical student”...if you prove to me you know what you are talking about I respect you... I met ENt attending who killed a patient...I would not let these attending touch my dogs...let alone listen to their advice...but based on your argument I should because they are “attending”?

 

[Lawpy]

OMG this is a online forum...just because you are attending who knows where..regardless if you are not my attending in real life I still have to treat you as attending? So you expect your family or random person on the street treat an attending as an attending no matter where and when? What a god complex lol

Also remember a neurologist don’t necessarily know about cardiology...like I said every of us have own expertise...it is not like I am not willing to learn from them...they questioned the toxicologist way of handling a tox patient but when I asked how they would handle this patient no one say anything...

sometime message and attitude don’t convey correctly and appropriately...but no mean I am looking down on them but if you said something is wrong but can’t give a correct answer, then how do you expect me to take your advice and answer lol? I respect people by their competency and attitude...not by their title “attending resident or medical student”...if you prove to me you know what you are talking about I respect you... I met ENt attending who killed a patient...I would not let these attending touch my dogs...let alone listen to their advice...but based on your argument I should because they are “attending”?

why are you challenging the attendings if they're more experienced on a topic than you

 

[Med Ed]

Let's take Breonna Taylor. Police show up to the house, are shot at through a door, and they return fire through the door. Ms. Taylor is unfortunately killed. You would have to be crazy to say that she was shot because she was black. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and unfortunately kept company (her boyfriend) that thought it was ok to shoot at the police. Actions and choices have consequences.

Louisville Courier-Journal: Officer Brett Hankison being fired from Louisville police after Breonna Taylor shooting

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Mayor Greg Fischer announced Friday that Louisville Metro Police is moving to fire Brett Hankison, one of three LMPD officers to fire weapons on March 13 at Breonna Taylor's apartment, killing her.

Hankison is accused by the department's interim chief, Robert Schroeder, of "blindly" firing 10 rounds into Taylor's apartment, creating a substantial danger of death and serious injury.

"I find your conduct a shock to the conscience," Schroeder wrote in a Friday letter to Hankison laying out the charges against him. "I am alarmed and stunned you used deadly force in this fashion."

"The result of your action seriously impedes the Department's goal of providing the citizens of our city with the most professional law enforcement agency possible. I cannot tolerate this type of conduct by any member of the Louisville Metro Police Department," he added. "Your conduct demands your termination."