Med School Difficulty Level

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yalla22

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This may be a really stupid question-but besides the reputation-what is the difference between going to a top med school vs. an average. I'm shooting for a top school-but the other day I was thinking about it and just purely out of curiousity wonder what the difference is...difficulty level? demand? If schools are pass/fail-then it can't really be competitiveness??
As someone that goes to an ivy college I can def. tell you that my experience as an undergrad has been very very different than my friends at X university (x being average). I'm wondering if its the same in med school.
 
This is a hotly contested issue that has been discussed at some length. Try doing a search to answer your question.
 
Obviously there's no answer to this question. You need to figure out what's most important to you. The factors to consider are: Curriculum/Learning Style, Financial, Lifestyle/Living Environment, Reputation, Future Goals.

I also went to an undergrad Ivy school, worked, and am now at a state med school. You're right, my undergrad experience was much different from my state school friends, but to be honest, I don't feel any smarter or dumber than the smart state school people. Smart people are smart people, dumb people are dumb people... Going to a school with smart people won't make you smart. And having people think you're smart won't make you smart either. The same goes if you're dumb.

What matters is what you get out of your education and how you translate that into results, performance, and outcome. Even the highly educated student can be a ****** in the hospital.

I will admit there are advantages: there's definitely a Wow Factor to graduating from a bigger name school. It opens doors to opportunties and people tend to give you the benefit of the doubt. At the same time, people will hold you to a higher standard that sometimes is not possible and will piss on you when you fall short of standards that someone else set up for you. The Wow Factor is short lived. At some point after doors have been opened for you, you have to prove that you deserve the Wow, which is really tough some times. The people who fall the hardest are the ones who actually believe they're entitled to the Wow and refuse to learn or take criticism.

Just as there are stereotypes of people going to big name schools, there're going to be sterotypes of people in small name schools, which is unfair at times when you don't get the respect that you deserve for all your hard work. I think people in this situation need to be strong, self-confident, but humble enough to maximize their learning opportunties. You have to know deep down that you put the time and effort and have all of that show in your attitude and performance. At that point, people will respect you regardless of what school you went to.

From here to eternity, people will judge you... whether it's by your educational background, ethnic background, socioeconomic status... whether your applying for med school, residency, fellowship, or a job after training. So it all depends on how you manage Perception and Reality. Some people will care, some people won't. No one kicks an AOA Harvard/Hopkins Step I 99% med student out of bed for eating crackers. And when you're patients see that you went to Stanford Med, they may be more relaxed before you cut their eye than they would be if they saw that you got your degree in Sally Struther's School of Medical Correspondence.

Personally for me, I'm lucky. I pay dingleberries for tuition at a state school, have really smart friends who motivate me to study and help me set standards, but are chill enough to be normal. They motivate me to work out/play sports, go out on the town, go out and date, BE NORMAL, while pursuing my own goals. It's sorta the perfect environment for me actually. In undergrad, it was a bit different. I stressed about looking good for the next level (getting into med school) and I sacrificed a lot (like my wellbeing) just to keep up with everyone/outdo them. When I got out in the working world after undergrad, I realized that NO ONE CARED where I went to school, other than my employer who hired me. But after being hired, it was up to me to perform to KEEP MY JOB, and not my alma mater. When I interviewed for med school, it was easy because people gave me the benefit of the doubt... but once in med school, it was up to me to perform on my exams/clerkships. Reputation can take you places, but it's up to you to cross the finish line (first).
 
I believe most medical schools are pretty much on the same level difficulty-wise since we are all responsible for the same information in the same amount of time. the big difference is that for a person that could get into either a top school or an average school, it is more difficult to stand out in a top school since almost everyone are top students. Top schools tend to run more smoothly administratively, have nicer facilities and arguably better teachers, which can all make your time there run a lot more smoothly.
 
Reputation and difficulty are vastly different aspects of a school and frequently have nothing to do with one another. In general, private schools have an incentive to keep you there: $. Look at the IVY's like harvard and their massive grade inflation. I didn't see any of that at my undergrad.


In contrast to an earlier poster, I do think that med school difficulty varies. I go to U of Rochester - which has a good reputation. The curriculum is challenging, but not oppresive. I was surprised because I had a lot more free time during 1st and 2nd year than I expected (a good question to ask during your tour!!!). The course directors at our school omit a bunch of the minimally relevant minutia paring down the amount of info we have to learn. It makes for a much more comfortable learning environment rather than having all of medicine heaped on you.

Ed
 
med skool is hard as you want to make it. trying to be top of your class at any school is difficult. and i'm sure barely passing isn't that difficult at most schools as well.
 
The difficulty of a subject really has more to do with the teaching skills of the person lecturing than with the subject matter. A gifted teacher can make any subject easy, and a crappy teacher can make anything difficult.

Most schools have some of both. That would be a good question to ask the students when you go interview somewhere.
 
i agree with Lowbudget above. but i do know that most of the hype about medschool is created by the varsity itself & the brainwashed feshmen too. the experience is what you make of it...
 
i went to a top ivy undergrad and now i'm at a state med school. it couldn't possibly be any harder. i can't imagine what it must be like to be at a top med school if there is any correlation btw reputation and difficulty. but my theory? there's not much of a correlation. example: at my undergrad, a C- was pretty much equivalent to an F. but i had friends who went to undergrad at carolina and failed out of the bio major. people didn't fail out of the bio major at yale. so i suspect med school is much the same way. . .once you've gotten into the top school, i suspect they might do a bit more 'pampering' of their students. just a suspicion. . .
 
it all comes down to everyone in a US med school has to take the same 3 licensing exams to practice here. every school teaches the material needed to pass these exams. how they do it is where the differences come in. that might be what people perceive as difference in difficulty
 
Oooo... actually, that's a very good point. I TOTALLY disagree with lattimer13. Yes, everyone's gotta take the all 3 Steps, but not all schools teach the material necessary to pass the exams. This may be due to curricular differences. It may be due to professor differences. Some schools drill certain concepts in your head, other schools hand you a syllabus and say, "You need to know about biochemistry of nucleic acids," and that's all you get.

But whatever the case, ask the MS3's and MS4's how much they feel the lectures/didactics prepared them for the 1) course exam 2) course NBME shelf, and 3) the USMLE 1 and 2. Because these are 3 different things.

And I'm not talking about "How did the kids in your class do on Step 1?"... you need to ask "Did they teach you Step 1?"

When I was studying for Step 1, I realized that there were things I learned and simply needed to refresh, and things that my school simply didn't teach me, making me go back and learn it square 1 all by myself, with frantic emails asking for help.
 
funny, my alma mater has yet to take a single med school exam for me. I mean c'mon! Not one! I really hope this changes soon as I'm starting to fall behind. If my alma mater doesn't take an exam for me by the end of the year I'm calling up my old college's president and demanding a refund.
 
Originally posted by lowbudget
Yes, everyone's gotta take the all 3 Steps, but not all schools teach the material necessary to pass the exams.

so how is it that every US med school has at least one person that passes each step? 🙄


Some schools drill certain concepts in your head, other schools hand you a syllabus and say, "You need to know about biochemistry of nucleic acids," and that's all you get.


isn't that what i said?🙄

"how they do it is where the differences come in. that MIGHT be what people perceive as difference in difficulty"


When I was studying for Step 1, I realized that there were things I learned and simply needed to refresh, and things that my school simply didn't teach me, making me go back and learn it square 1 all by myself, with frantic emails asking for help.

are you sure they didn't teach it to you? if so, sorry you got jipped in your medical education. later.
 
Man, I did get jipped. And I'd be a better golfer if they took my exam for me.

When all was said and done and I started to memorize First Aid, I realized there were just some stuff I had NEVER seen before. You guys probably go to better med schools than I do because reviewing for Step 1 sure wasn't a Review. But you're right, maybe I just THOUGHT it wasn't covered because I fell asleep in class... sure hell wasn't in the scribe notes though. And on some days, you'll listen to professors lecture and say, "the most important thing is..." and then proceed to talk about their research ad nauseum that all else was neglected despite going overtime.

OH FREAKING WELL. Glad those (whiny) days are over. Feel sorry for anyone else who have to put up with that kind of crap.
 
Difference in med schools.......hmm thats a tough one. My best friend is at a top 50 schools, and i'm at a top 10........here's what I think..........

1) The people at a higher ranked school on average are bit smarter.......gpa, mcat, and just talking with people will convince you of that.
2) Even with pass/fail, people compete against themselves........the people at top med schools got there by doing their best..........and they'll continue to do so (and sometimes find that still isn't good enough).
3) The board scores do differ from school to school. That reflects two things: the caliber of students and the quality of the curriculum.
4) Higher ranked schools have more money. This is huge. Our facilities are great, and it is definitely something I noticed when interviewing...
5) You can talk about residency matching and so forth, but you can match INTO anything, although it probably gets more difficult into certain specialties and schools from different med schools (harvard matched 10% of its class into derm last year.....most schools get 2-3 people)
6) You might be willing to bank on being close to the top of your class at your run of the mill state med school (exclude top ~ 20 schools) to get that derm residency at UCSF, but I'd say you're ignorant to make that call. I would have done that sort of thing last year, but everyone is med school is great. Counting that you can outperform all of them is just arrogant. You're going to be taken for a ride where ever you go.
 
yeah it seems like using the average board scores would be the fairest assessment of a school's curriculum. i mean, it's the only standardized measurement we have for schools. too bad they don't publish them.
 
Originally posted by nuclearrabbit77
yeah it seems like using the average board scores would be the fairest assessment of a school's curriculum. i mean, it's the only standardized measurement we have for schools. too bad they don't publish them.

not necessarily... i think a little of it depends on the type/caliber of students at a given school - i mean, some of the kids at my school could friggin teach themselves and get a 236, i swear - and that some schools are more likely to end up with these really really bright schools than are others.
 
it wasn't my contention that higher ranked schools don't tend to get the brighter students. in fact i couldn't agree more. i merely am pointing out that there lacks any standardized method of comparing curriculums.
 
Originally posted by GoodMonkey
not necessarily... i think a little of it depends on the type/caliber of students at a given school - i mean, some of the kids at my school could friggin teach themselves and get a 236, i swear - and that some schools are more likely to end up with these really really bright schools than are others.

Exactly... I was discussing this point a couple of weeks back with my roommate. What you really need is something like:

(Average Board Scores for a given school) divided by (Average MCAT for said school)

That way, you could see exactly how much of an effect a school's curriculum had on their students.

To put it another way, it is impressive to take someone with an MCAT of 30 and have them score 250 on Step I. However, if you had an MCAT of 38, it wouldn't be that surprising to score a 250.

Too bad there are very few schools releasing average step I scores...

ttac
 
that'd be an interesting formula.
yah, i mean they tend to publish the average stats on entering classes,...but you tend to have to dig around to find a match list or average step 1 score.
i think the biggest crock of feces is when a school says they match "so and so" percent in their top 3 choices.
what they don't mention is that top schools tend to have students trying to match in uber competitive specialities. on top of that, most people self-select themselves out of certain specialites (or under pressure from an advisor), if they
don't have the stats.
 
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