Med School prestige matter?

[famoussquamous]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm not saying students don't turn down higher-ranked schools for financial reasons (although I find it odd that everyone assumes state schools are always cheaper than private schools, especially when private schools are more likely to give out scholarship aid than state schools). However, I am arguing that that there is a small, but nontrivial advantage with a better medical school reputation, especially when applying to competitive and academic specialties. It may have to do with resources, renowned/recognizable faculty, more total graduates matching to these programs in the past, who knows? I do know that there is a visible difference between school match lists, no matter how unwise and difficult they may be to read into. I also know firsthand from the nametags I see on the interview trail.

EDIT: I'm also trying to dismantle this pre-med notion that school reputation doesn't matter. It should factor into your decision, but it should be at the bottom and lowest-weighted variable of them all. With all things being equal, definitely choose the cheaper school. If you're passing up a top 20 to go to your unranked state school over $30,000--then you need to rethink things. I can tell you the bottom half of my school matches much differently than the bottom half of UCSF for internal medicine, even though we have higher average board scores than they do.

Yeah that's true. But I still feel like MD schools are closer together outside the tip-top versus undergrad.

 

[famoussquamous]

Care to let us know what this elite school is where 40% of kids have parents making > $500K combined? I am really skeptical, but would love to learn more if that's the case.

Wash U. People there just had money on top of money, and I've heard it's the same at other schools like it.

 

[WedgeDawg]

% of students receiving aid (undergraduate) (this is every place I googled):

Yale: 64%
Penn: >75%
Dartmouth: >50%
Brown: 48%
Stanford: >60% (it was unclear)
MIT: ~90%
Duke: 50%

I don't think WashU is considered a "top" undergrad school (defined as the schools listed above will not match an award given by it)

 

[famoussquamous]

I don't think WashU is considered a "top" undergrad school (defined as the schools listed above will not match an award given by it)

It's at least top 15. It's no H/Y/P but it's pretty up there (says the rating system everyone here hates anyway). You also have to keep in mind that receiving aid at these schools doesn't necessarily mean you don't pay anything or that your parents aren't loaded. Don't just look at those numbers and assume all those receiving aid are from modest backgrounds

 

[iniquus]

Wash U. People there just had money on top of money, and I've heard it's the same at other schools like it.

I mean I didn't go to WashU, so I don't want to start an argument. But, from the quick google searches I did (http://www.studlife.com/news/2009/1...survey-finds-socioeconomic-diversity-lacking/ and http://su.wustl.edu/blog/2015/01/16/senate-minutes-12-02-14/) reveal the average income to be much less than what you stated.

This may be tangential from what the original thread is about. I just want pre-medical students to not simply discount school prestige when making this decision. If you have the financial means and feel it is justified, go to the best school you can excel at. As you progress further and further in your career, if your goal is competitive/academic, you will see it becomes a lot easier if you stack everything in your favor from the get-go. I think undergraduate reputation probably makes less difference than medical school reputation--and I feel residency reputation matters more than that.

And I would consider WashU a top school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

It's at least top 15. It's no H/Y/P but it's pretty up there (says the rating system everyone here hates anyway).

Yeah, it's no slouch, but it's closer to Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, etc in terms of who will match their undergrad financial aid package.

(Not that this matters at all right now)

 

[famoussquamous]

I mean I didn't go to WashU, so I don't want to start an argument. But, from the quick google searches I did (http://www.studlife.com/news/2009/1...survey-finds-socioeconomic-diversity-lacking/ and http://su.wustl.edu/blog/2015/01/16/senate-minutes-12-02-14/) reveal the average income to be much less than what you stated.

This may be tangential from what the original thread is about. I just want pre-medical students to not simply discount school prestige when making this decision. If you have the financial means and feel it is justified, go to the best school you can excel at. As you progress further and further in your career, if your goal is competitive/academic, you will see it becomes a lot easier if you stack everything in your favor from the get-go. I think undergraduate reputation probably makes less difference than medical school reputation--and I feel residency reputation matters more than that.

And I would consider WashU a top school.

Basically, the kids that worry about money for paying for college will probably qualify for aid at these colleges.

I do think that the undergrad you go to matters more since going to a medical school period is probably the hardest and most "rate limiting" step in a person's dream of becoming a doctor. Going to a uni where you'll have opportunities to do research, volunteer, shadow, leadership opportunities, and all that is probably most important (and can be done at most schools). That said, going to a school where a large percentage of people with "average" stats end up getting into medical school is also a good thing. I do think that residency is the MOST important since that basically determines what you'll be, but yes some medical schools are good simply because they actually teach to Step 1 and don't have professors that make you memorize a bunch of minutiae not won't be tested.

 

[ridethecliche]

I remember reading a study when I was applying to undergrad that found that there was little to no difference in earning between people that picked their state school having gained acceptance to a top school and those that picked the opposite way.

Wonder if something similar happens for med school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I remember reading a study when I was applying to undergrad that found that there was little to no difference in earning between people that picked their state school having gained acceptance to a top school and those that picked the opposite way.

Wonder if something similar happens for med school.

Considering that earnings is often specialty, location, and setting (private practice vs. academic) dependent, I would say that there probably won't be any real correlation.

 

[famoussquamous]

I'm not saying students don't turn down higher-ranked schools for financial reasons (although I find it odd that everyone assumes state schools are always cheaper than private schools, especially when private schools are more likely to give out scholarship aid than state schools). However, I am arguing that that there is a small, but nontrivial advantage with a better medical school reputation, especially when applying to competitive and academic specialties. It may have to do with resources, renowned/recognizable faculty, more total graduates matching to these programs in the past, who knows? I do know that there is a visible difference between school match lists, no matter how unwise and difficult they may be to read into. I also know firsthand from the nametags I see on the interview trail.

EDIT: I'm also trying to dismantle this pre-med notion that school reputation doesn't matter. It should factor into your decision, but it should be at the bottom and lowest-weighted variable of them all. With all things being equal, definitely choose the cheaper school. If you're passing up a top 20 to go to your unranked state school over $30,000--then you need to rethink things. I can tell you the bottom half of my school matches much differently than the bottom half of UCSF for internal medicine, even though we have higher average board scores than they do.

Is that true for medical school though? Undergrad yes, but it seems like most medical schools only offer aid in the form of loans and don't do the whole need-based thing.

 

[iniquus]

I also don't want people to start thinking the medical school prestige feather-in-your-hat will make up for all weaknesses in your residency application. It doesn't mean you take a backseat in your brand-name medical school and 10-20 points will be added to your board scores. You'll just see that there will be a handful of interviews that you won't get while your friend at a more reputable school does despite having almost identical applications. Going to a "better" school just gives you more academic credibility on your CV--they can't always assume you had those elite offers on the table, but chose the financially responsible route. However, there's more than board scores to what makes a good medical school.

I also have no doubt my "top" undergraduate made a difference. I had a mediocre GPA coming out and definitely would not have had the successful cycle I did coming out of my state school. I had way more opportunities in undergraduate than my friends at state school.

Is that true for medical school though? Undergrad yes, but it seems like most medical schools only offer aid in the form of loans and don't do the whole need-based thing.

I don't know how substantial the aid is, but I am fairly sure than private schools with resources will give more scholarship aid than any state school (where funds can be lacking and less motivation to provide aid given the usually lower tuition). I only have anecdotal evidence and advice for future pre-meds to leverage schools against each other if you have multiple offers. I was accepted into a private school and a public school with similar reputations, and they gave me a scholarship (which they increased to match my state tuition). Similarly, I know several people from college who received half/full tuition scholarships to medical school and they didn't have anything near a 4.0 nor were they need-based. You'd be surprised how often the private financial aid package comes close to your in-state tuition.

 

[famoussquamous]

I never dared trying to negotiate between medical schools about price, I feel like they'd just be like "take it or leave it", since they have so many people that want to get in. I do know that most medical schools will offer scholarships between your M3 and M4 year, and if your school is still on grades, M2 year.

 

[iniquus]

I never dared trying to negotiate between medical schools about price, I feel like they'd just be like "take it or leave it", since they have so many people that want to get in. I do know that most medical schools will offer scholarships between your M3 and M4 year, and if your school is still on grades, M2 year.

Well, if you truly need the aid, or cost is a major factor swaying you to another school--schools can adjust their aid accordingly pre-matriculation. I'm not saying my friends and I are the standard, but what do you have to lose? It never hurts to ask politely and be declined--you certainly won't get your acceptance rescinded for asking a question. A school shouldn't conflate securing more financial aid or scholarship with you putting your hands in their pockets for personal gain.

 

[justadream]

I never dared trying to negotiate between medical schools about price, I feel like they'd just be like "take it or leave it", since they have so many people that want to get in. I do know that most medical schools will offer scholarships between your M3 and M4 year, and if your school is still on grades, M2 year.

Yeah why are people so afraid to ask/negotiate for more aid?

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. When you have multiple offers, especially at peer schools, you could very well get more aid. And cost is a HUGE factor when determining which school in which to enroll.

Worst case scenario is that they say no.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

What say you, @DermViser?

 

[NickNaylor]

I never dared trying to negotiate between medical schools about price, I feel like they'd just be like "take it or leave it", since they have so many people that want to get in. I do know that most medical schools will offer scholarships between your M3 and M4 year, and if your school is still on grades, M2 year.

But even if that's the case, there's no harm in asking. What, are they going to rescind your acceptance?