Med schools offering International Clinical rotations

[Pkboi24]

Do any of you know which med schools offer a chance for you to do part of your 3rd or 4th year abroad?

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[kiddingme]

I read that Loyola used to do that,there was the option of spending a year in a 3rd world country. you can check to see if they still do offer it.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Why in God's name would you want to do something like that?

 

[biggoron42]

Why in God's name would you want to do something like that?

sarcasm?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

sarcasm?

No, well, yeah there's almost always some sarcasm in what I say, but seriously....why would you want to do a rotation in a third world country? Doesn't that seem rather stupid? You're supposed to be learning modern medicine, not running around pretending you're somehow going to save the world.

 

[biggoron42]

No, well, yeah there's almost always some sarcasm in what I say, but seriously....why would you want to do a rotation in a third world country? Doesn't that seem rather stupid? You're supposed to be learning modern medicine, not running around pretending you're somehow going to save the world.

i would think that if you were considering international medicine as a future career choice, you might want to check it out for a few weeks before making a commitment, no?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I guess....I've never viewed "international medicine" as a career. It's something doctors do in their spare time to give the impression that they care about more than just their home country so we aren't viewed as self-serving money hungry elitists.

Still if you want to be Mother Teresa, why waste your money on med school? Running off to Bangalopanalorpuhrahahanana after going a few hundred thousand in debt is pretty shoddy business sense (unless you don't plan on repaying your student loans )

 

[biggoron42]

pkboi, btw, if you are interested, here is a thread i started on a similar topic a few months back: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=268149

and true, international medicine is not a career choice for all but a dedicated few. however, if you are wanting to do something like MSF, i know that they value previous experience in the field highly when selecting candidates. so even if its only a part time gig for you, getting your feet wet in a semi-organized program is a good way to see if you want to spend greater amounts of time doing it in the future and a nice resume builder for subsequent work in the field.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Personally I fully plan on not leaving the US for anything other than vacations. If I were to expatriate myself on a long term basis, it certainly would not be to any part of the world best described as 'third world'.

 

[pocketdoc]

Wow, Dropkick, I think it's fine that you don't want to go to the third world to practice, but no need to get on the OP for having different goals than you do!

I went to Guatemala a few months ago on a medical mission, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was hard and at times heartbreaking, but it was amazing. I totally want to do outreach after I get my M.D. and not because I want to use my spare time 'to give the impression that care about more than just [my] home country so we aren't viewed as self-serving money hungry elitists.' If you haven't tried it, don't knock it, and if you have tried it and it's not for you, don't judge others for liking it. Maybe you should try expanding your horizons and thinking globally, Dropkick.

On that note, Pkboi24, I don't know about doing a year abroad. I know that most schools will allow/encourage an elective or two abroad, but personally I'd wait until I had a real M.D. and some training under my belt to go abroad for a longer period of time. But again, that's my personal choice. Good luck!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

To each and to their own, but I think medical school is a time to focus on getting your basic clinical skills down so you can eventually specialize in whatever you choose to do, not go off and pretend to be Albert Schweitzer.

Maybe you should try expanding your horizons and thinking globally, Dropkick.

I speak three languages (English and German, and I'm relearning French after several years of not using it), I can curse and tell someone to hurry up in Arabic and I'm learning a little Spanish because of my girlfriend speaking it. I've been to Germany, Austria, France, England, Canada, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Finland, the Czech Republic, Mexico, the Netherlands, Ireland, Poland, Scotland, and Denmark among a few other places for comparatively insignificant amounts of time. Care to ask again if I don't think globally? Or do my visits to these place not count?

Just because I don't get the warm and fuzzy for the unwashed masses doesn't mean I don't think outside the borders of this country. Personally I also just abhore medical tourism especially among premeds who are by and large incapable and unqualified to render anything other than cursory assistance and not there for any purpose other than trying to spit shine their applications.

 

[WayChanger]

Many, if not most medical schools offer international electives, and in many cases, these need not necessarily be in third world countries. Rochester, for example, has a program established with Taiwan, and I remember that AECOM has a program with Japan. I'm sure many schools let you go to a lot of places in Europe, or Asia, or wherever else you might like to go. If you go to the websites of the schools you're interested in, I'm sure more information is available - search for "international medicine," or "international electives." I was actually very interested in doing some rotations abroad, and I was happy to see that most schools supported this option.

 

[SNR02]

I think another perspective should be brought up. As a medical student in the United States, especially if you're not in a big city, you will most likely not encounter interesting infectious diseases cases / tropical illnesses etc. Most schools i think give their students the opportunity to do an elective abroad for a few weeks not so they can save a bunch of lives...i mean you're not even a doctor yet! It is to learn to recognize varying medical pathologies so that you have a broad level of experience before you go into whatever field you choose.

It is also helpful in that you can have a better glimpse about how health care systems work in other nations and about how various public health issues are addressed by the government / health care infrastructure. Just useful things to be exposed to as a student.

 

[LowlyPremed]

OP: Many students that I met during my interviews also choose to spend their summer between MS 1 and MS 2 doing research abroad, usually in third world countries. This does not count towards clinical rotations/electives since you're only betweeen M 1 and M2. Do not be discouraged, even if you choose to go to a third world country for pretentious reasons, a lot of these people do not have access to ANY type of medical care and they'll take what they get. We can spend our lifetime debating true altruism so don't let anyone discourage you. I do agree with the other posters, I would not spend any significant time of my med school experience in a third world country but that decision is up to you. If I were to do any work overseas, it would be after I completed my medical training.

 

[vtucci]

USF has rotations available overseas and some are getting set up now-- China should be available by my class' senior year (2008-9). There are also opportunities in India and the DR.

However, during the 4th year, we can usually arrange a rotation if there is an associated med school

 

[Thundrstorm]

I think another perspective should be brought up. As a medical student in the United States, especially if you're not in a big city, you will most likely not encounter interesting infectious diseases cases / tropical illnesses etc. Most schools i think give their students the opportunity to do an elective abroad for a few weeks not so they can save a bunch of lives...i mean you're not even a doctor yet! It is to learn to recognize varying medical pathologies so that you have a broad level of experience before you go into whatever field you choose.

It is also helpful in that you can have a better glimpse about how health care systems work in other nations and about how various public health issues are addressed by the government / health care infrastructure. Just useful things to be exposed to as a student.

You've hit on one of the reasons I'd eventually like to do an international rotation or 2. I would really like to get some good exposure to malaria and other parasitic infections, HIV/AIDS in countries where tx is not optimal, diarrheal diseases, etc. I hope to encounter some interesting ID cases in Chicago, but rotating in, say, India, or sub-Saharan Africa, would be a totally different experience.

Plus, as another poster said, it's a good, structured opportunity for those of us with an interest in International medicine to get our feet wet.

I think most schools allow international rotations during the 4th year; I asked about this at most of the places I interviewed, and I was always told that it was a possibility, and often told that it was encouraged.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I don't understand why you would want to go to sub-Saharan Africa to see AIDS cases. We have plenty here. In fact, the overwhelmind HIV infection rates is a major reason I won't ever go to Africa.

 

[Pkboi24]

I don't understand why you would want to go to sub-Saharan Africa to see AIDS cases. We have plenty here. In fact, the overwhelmind HIV infection rates is a major reason I won't ever go to Africa.

I think if you have ever seen the difference between a treated and an untreated patient with HIV you would understand that there is a huge difference. Not to mention, people there are consistently exposed to diseases other than HIV, which drastically increase their chances of developing AIDS. It's a completely different environment there. No ghetto in the most densely populated city in the world could compare.

If you don't want to go to Africa and risk the small chance of contracting HIV, that is your perogative. Certainly, altruism isn't a necessary requirement for being a physician.

 

[Thundrstorm]

I don't understand why you would want to go to sub-Saharan Africa to see AIDS cases. We have plenty here. In fact, the overwhelmind HIV infection rates is a major reason I won't ever go to Africa.

Did you read what I wrote? "HIV/AIDS cases where tx is not optimal." I'm interested in doing research to find practical solutions for infectious diseases, including the places where current medications are not feasible or affordable. How better to understand how to meet that need than to go where the need is and understand it? Yes, we have AIDS cases in the US... about a million. Obviously, that's an issue, and I would work with American AIDS patients. But the other 98% of AIDS pateints are important too, and many of them are not benefiting from current therapies. You can't treat a disease the same way in every environment, and I'm personally more interested in developing treatments for the other 98%.

Nobody said you had to go to Africa. We all have different interests and goals, right? So, what's the problem?

 

[biggoron42]

To each and to their own, but I think medical school is a time to focus on getting your basic clinical skills down so you can eventually specialize in whatever you choose to do, not go off and pretend to be Albert Schweitzer.

doing month long international rotations when you are a MS3 or MS4 probably is little more than play-acting at making a difference, but, nonetheless, you'll probably get an accurate taste of what real work in the field would be like. and thats crucial if you are considering dedicating real time and effort to helping third world countries in the future. from what i've read and been told, there are a lot of physicians out there really making a difference (its probably attitudes like yours that contribute to the fact that most of these folks are from europe). however, we all gotta start someplace. besides, talking about honing clinical skills, what better place could there be to get the basic stuff down than in an environment where the technological crutch is not there and the support staff is minimal?

 

[Apparition]

Penn State does this.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I think if you have ever seen the difference between a treated and an untreated patient with HIV you would understand that there is a huge difference. Not to mention, people there are consistently exposed to diseases other than HIV, which drastically increase their chances of developing AIDS. It's a completely different environment there. No ghetto in the most densely populated city in the world could compare.

If you don't want to go to Africa and risk the small chance of contracting HIV, that is your perogative. Certainly, altruism isn't a necessary requirement for being a physician.

Yes, I have seen unmanaged or improperly managed HIV, actually probably far more cases than most of you. I have altruism, after all I am a volunteer firefighter and EMT, but I just chose to do my altruistic activities where it will do the greatest amount of good. Attempting to manage the HIV epidemic through the actions of a few American and European docs who go their for short periods of time is akin to trying to control a house fire by pissing upon it. Granted being a premed, I am a glutton for punishment but I don't like not having anything to show for my efforts.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Nobody said you had to go to Africa. We all have different interests and goals, right? So, what's the problem?

No problem. I just don't like it when people think they are better than me (not you because you're polite about your goals) because they want to go to some backwater and pass out protease inhibitors etc.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

from what i've read and been told, there are a lot of physicians out there really making a difference

Death rates and infection rates are increasing from what I've read and been told. Seems like they are really making a difference. Personally the efforts haven't seemed to make one iota of difference on a large scale so why risk it?

(its probably attitudes like yours that contribute to the fact that most of these folks are from europe).

Maybe, but it could also be geography (last time I checked they are closer to us) and history (most of Africa was at one time or another colonized by one European country or another) rather than supposed "attitudes".

besides, talking about honing clinical skills, what better place could there be to get the basic stuff down than in an environment where the technological crutch is not there and the support staff is minimal?

Point taken, but you can do the same in the US if you choose to do so. At least here you have the resources, the backup and the "crutches" in case you need them.

 

[contulusa]

University of South Alabama lets you do a rotation 4th year abroad. Some people in the past have went to Nepal...I think India is offered too.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

See I'd go to Nepal, but only because I would find a way to weasel my way into getting to do some serious hiking while I'm there. :-D

 

[pocketdoc]

No problem. I just don't like it when people think they are better than me (not you because you're polite about your goals) because they want to go to some backwater and pass out protease inhibitors etc.

I don't recall anyone saying that they're better than you, Dropkick, and if my earlier post gave you that impression, I'm sorry. By "thinking globally," I meant seeing the world as a community and not regarding the people in developed countries as more worthy of medical attention than those in lesser-developed areas. Visiting places doesn't mean you think that way.

I'm not saying you have to want to go 'to some backwater and pass out protease inhibitors' if that's not what you want to do. I take issue with how vehemently (and rudely, I think) you put down others' goals and interests. If you don't want to practice international medicine, that's fine, but it seems like you're the one projecting the attitude of superiority through your comments.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I just don't understand the fascination. Like I said....more power to you all. I just don't get my jollys by those means. It's not meant to come across as rudeness, simply confusion at what provokes people to want to do it. Personally I think you all are a little off your rockers by wanting to put yourself at risk by undertaking such work for so little benefit either to you or the patients (in the case of HIV patients).

 

[Pkboi24]

I just don't understand the fascination. Like I said....more power to you all. I just don't get my jollys by those means. It's not meant to come across as rudeness, simply confusion at what provokes people to want to do it. Personally I think you all are a little off your rockers by wanting to put yourself at risk by undertaking such work for so little benefit either to you or the patients (in the case of HIV patients).

I'm sorry. I honestly don't mean to be rude, but there is absolutely no need for you to go around telling everyone how meaningless you think their goals are. You don't want to go, fine. No one's saying you're a bad person or that they are better than you. You may have previously encountered these types of people, but I have yet to come across anyone on this thread deserving of your rudeness.

The topic of this thread is asking whether anyone knew of med schools offering international rotations. If you have a genuine question that you are willing to ask in a civil manner, by all means, please do so. But if your purpose is merely to belittle the future plans of strangers you've never met, then please refrain from posting your drivel here.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I'm sorry. I honestly don't mean to be rude, but there is absolutely no need for you to go around telling everyone how meaningless you think their goals are. You don't want to go, fine. No one's saying you're a bad person or that they are better than you. You may have previously encountered these types of people, but I have yet to come across anyone on this thread deserving of your rudeness.

The topic of this thread is asking whether anyone knew of med schools offering international rotations. If you have a genuine question that you are willing to ask in a civil manner, by all means, please do so. But if your purpose is merely to belittle the future plans of strangers you've never met, then please refrain from posting your drivel here.

OK, here's my questions:
What exactly are you, as a physician, expecting to achieve by going over and treating people with an incurable communicable disease? Do you honestly expect to make a difference in the long term? Do you really believe that shipping large quantities of expensive medications and a few hundred altruistic physicians and nurses that only slow disease progress is going to help stop the pandemic that is the HIV crisis in sub-Saharan Africa when there is a rampant culture of rape, prostitution and other aggregious risk taking behavior?

This is not asked sarcastically, it is a serious investigation of your reasonings (all of you). I would honestly like to know what you think.

 

[Pkboi24]

OK, here's my questions:
What exactly are you, as a physician, expecting to achieve by going over and treating people with an incurable communicable disease? Do you honestly expect to make a difference in the long term? Do you really believe that shipping large quantities of expensive medications and a few hundred altruistic physicians and nurses that only slow disease progress is going to help stop the pandemic that is the HIV crisis in sub-Saharan Africa when there is a rampant culture of rape, prostitution and other aggregious risk taking behavior?

This is not asked sarcastically, it is a serious investigation of your reasonings (all of you). I would honestly like to know what you think.

Here is my reasoning: If everyone believes that they can't make a difference, then no one ever will.

Maybe the global health initiative isn't making that much of a difference right now. I'll be honest with you, I don't know the statistics. Maybe people are making a difference and maybe they're not, but at least they are trying. And when people try, things eventually happen. AIDS isn't cured in a generation. Results don't come right away. Each person should do what he/she feels is the right thing. And if you don't think it's right or worth it, then don't do it. I'm not a doctor, a nurse, or even a CNA, so I'm not going to talk about efficacy of treatment or other such things. It would be nice if I were a doctor and could do more about it, but even if I wasn't, I'd still go. I'll stand there and put what I have to use, my hands, my feet, my voice. You can't make a difference unless you're willing to get trudge through some feces. People have many different reasons for becoming doctors, altruism, intellectual stimuation, provision for their family, etc. One of mine is to make a difference in my generation, however small, however insignificant, and I choose to do it where people need it most. If I'm the only one there, then so be it. That is my reason.

 

[biggoron42]

well i think there are several different answers to your question:

1.) delivering acute care to crisis points across the world (a la MSF) is a way that you can make a direct, concrete difference in people's lives. global health doesnt just mean ending AIDS in Africa.

2.) you say that europeans are more involved in global care because they are closer geographically and i guess feel some sort of guilt for their historically colonial role. i think in today's interconnected world, these arguments dont hold much weight. we are all a plane flight away from areas that need help. i think its more that we in america need a culture shift towards caring about other places. volunteering your time abroad, if you have the means, is a great way to bring about that culture change.

3.) i dont think the "its too big of a problem" argument holds much weight either. again, don't distill all the world's health problems into AIDS in Africa. There are hordes of health crises all over the world that could use trained manpower and have shown the potential to respond to such infusions. i once thought the same way you did, but talking with doctors who have done MSF and reading books like tracy kidder's mountains beyond mountains have done wonders to change my viewpoint to some extent.

i have no desire to work fulltime abroad, but i think as a citizen of this world, i feel some obligation to help people in less fortunate situations. im not saying that the work of one man is going to cause a sea change in super-complicated situations like AIDS in Africa (that requires political, social, AND medical solutions...a tough taks), but i think if you go over there and affect the lives of 10, 20, or a 100 people in a way that wouldnt be possible if you hadnt been there, thats enough for me.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I like your attitude, PKBoi. Granted, I think you're a bit too optimistic about certain things, but your heart is in the right place.

Personally I am a firm believer in not going into battle unless you have a chance of holding your ground or winning. In the case of the HIV pandemic in Africa, it would take a total rewiring of how the people live their lives to put a stop to the spread of the disease. Having been in health care for almost a decade now, I must say that I don't believe that is a reasonable expectation. That is why I choose to expend my energies in a manner that is far more likely to make the differences I wish to see.

 

[Zanoman]

...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

1.) delivering acute care to crisis points across the world (a la MSF) is a way that you can make a direct, concrete difference in people's lives. global health doesnt just mean ending AIDS in Africa.

I know, but I was just using AIDS as an example. Personally I would do trauma care in a war zone for MSF, but simply because I think it would be fun, not because I think I'm going to change anything.

2.) you say that europeans are more involved in global care because they are closer geographically and i guess feel some sort of guilt for their historically colonial role. i think in today's interconnected world, these arguments dont hold much weight. we are all a plane flight away from areas that need help. i think its more that we in america need a culture shift towards caring about other places. volunteering your time abroad, if you have the means, is a great way to bring about that culture change.

I didn't think there is guilt involved, I was implying that there is more of a connection to the European nations than to the US. The only volunteer work I plan on doing outside of the US is as a volunteer Rettungsassistent (paramedic) with the German Red Cross (DRK) one summer while I am in college.

Quite frankly I'm not about to pay my hard earned to go practice medicine in some sweltering hellhole. I'll have the means to go, but I will choose to expend those means on something better and more fun.

3.) i dont think the "its too big of a problem" argument holds much weight either. again, don't distill all the world's health problems into AIDS in Africa. There are hordes of health crises all over the world that could use trained manpower and have shown the potential to respond to such infusions. i once thought the same way you did, but talking with doctors who have done MSF and reading books like tracy kidder's mountains beyond mountains have done wonders to change my viewpoint to some extent.

OK. I again was just using AIDS as a worst case scenario. The smaller crises aren't so insurmountable, and I am somewhat more likely to become involved if there is less of a chance of my dragging home a virus to my family.

i have no desire to work fulltime abroad, but i think as a citizen of this world, i feel some obligation to help people in less fortunate situations. im not saying that the work of one man is going to cause a sea change in super-complicated situations like AIDS in Africa (that requires political, social, AND medical solutions...a tough taks), but i think if you go over there and affect the lives of 10, 20, or a 100 people in a way that wouldnt be possible if you hadnt been there, thats enough for me.

No, those are impossible tasks in regards to Africa. And are you really making those people's lives any better? They are still going to die and probably live only to spread the disease further. Buying them a few more months until their antiviral meds run out and whatever bug they catch overwhelms their depleted immune systems doesn't sound like much of a victory to me. But if it makes you sleep better at night to have done that for them, I won't stand in your way.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Personally I am a firm believer in not going into battle unless you have a chance of holding your ground or winning. In the case of the HIV pandemic in Africa, it would take a total rewiring of how the people live their lives to put a stop to the spread of the disease.

I agree with DKM on this. If you read Mountains Beyond Moutains, according to the author Paul Farmer also alludes to this idea. "White Liberals" doing medical missions have almost no impact on international health. Health policy and funding mechanisms that create sustainable public health reforms are what improve health care in developing countries. It's the beaurocrat not the doctor who accomplishes this (unless you are both, e.g. Paul Farmer).

This is not to say that it isn't important for med students to witness health disparities, since advocates and supporters are needed to help guide policy. But people need to be more realistic about what they can actually accomplish.

 

[biggoron42]

I agree with DKM on this. If you read Mountains Beyond Moutains, according to the author Paul Farmer also alludes to this idea. "White Liberals" doing medical missions have almost no impact on international health. Health policy and funding mechanisms that create sustainable public health reforms are what improve health care in developing countries. It's the beaurocrat not the doctor who accomplishes this (unless you are both, e.g. Paul Farmer).

This is not to say that it isn't important for med students to witness health disparities, since advocates and supporters are needed to help guide policy. But people need to be more realistic about what they can actually accomplish.

i dont think you and DKM are saying the same thing, but thats just me.

 

[biggoron42]

No, those are impossible tasks in regards to Africa. And are you really making those people's lives any better? They are still going to die and probably live only to spread the disease further. Buying them a few more months until their antiviral meds run out and whatever bug they catch overwhelms their depleted immune systems doesn't sound like much of a victory to me. But if it makes you sleep better at night to have done that for them, I won't stand in your way.

i take my last sentence back . i have little to no understanding of the AIDS crisis in Africa. but for 99% of the other health crises in the world, i think it applies.

do you not see a logical fallacy in basing all your arguments on the worse case scenario?

 

[riceman04]

No, well, yeah there's almost always some sarcasm in what I say, but seriously....why would you want to do a rotation in a third world country? Doesn't that seem rather stupid? You're supposed to be learning modern medicine, not running around pretending you're somehow going to save the world.

Damn...I did not know Bush had another child!

mucho gusto senor (sin ampersand porque esta programa no me permite usarlos)

 

[PariPari]

I know, but I was just using AIDS as an example. Personally I would do trauma care in a war zone for MSF, but simply because I think it would be fun, not because I think I'm going to change anything.

no offense, but you prob wouldn't make it past screening
MSF & a lot of the NGO world acknowledge they may be doing more harm than good & that what worked 10yrs ago isn't valid anymore

i wanna do a rotation for reasons similar to Thundrstorm-b/c where i wish i could practice in the US (a rural area), it'd be good to know how to do things w/o relying heavily on technology & be familiar w/ how cases present in resource poor environments, plus i have ties outside the us & if i want to practice there or in a similar environment, i had better have a clue what's going on

EDIT: THE AMA is EVIL! it's now pw protected, so if you know a member, maybe they'll let you look at it?
AMA foreign residency rotations & opportunities abroad
Fogarty Center Ellison Fellowship
I'm fairly sure that most med schools will allow you to schedule an international elective, even if they don't host a program themselves (where i asked they were open to it as a possibility, but you'd have to do a lot of the leg work)

ps even though everybody's already said it, you can do international health in places other than africa & focus on things other than AIDS

 

[PariPari]

Damn...I did not know Bush had another child!

mucho gusto senor (sin ampersand porque esta programa no me permite usarlos)

señor (i cheated & did it in windows)

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Damn...I did not know Bush had another child!

mucho gusto senor (sin ampersand porque esta programa no me permite usarlos)

How in the hell does that make me like that uneducated troglodyte?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

i take my last sentence back . i have little to no understanding of the AIDS crisis in Africa. but for 99% of the other health crises in the world, i think it applies.

do you not see a logical fallacy in basing all your arguments on the worse case scenario?

I don't think it's a fallacy because I'm not basing all my possible scenarios on worse case, although in other situations involving contingency planning going for the worse case scenario will never leave you underprepared. I'm just using it to show some flaws (albeit an extreme example) in some of your reasoning.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

i dont think you and DKM are saying the same thing, but thats just me.

Actually we are saying exactly the same thing. You all who want to go over and take care of these people are deluding yourself if you think you're going to change anything. It will be the governments that bring about real change, not you, not you and a few colleagues.

 

[biggoron42]

Actually we are saying exactly the same thing. You all who want to go over and take care of these people are deluding yourself if you think you're going to change anything. It will be the governments that bring about real change, not you, not you and a few colleagues.

i thought angus was saying that solutions are possible in these cases (like what paul farmer has done) when doctoring is combined with systemic public health fixes. you can go over there to gain experience and see first hand what works and what doesnt, then come back here and continue advocacy work. i agree wholeheartedly with him that doing medical work without any policy changes is an exercise in treading water (but i made the comment on helping 20 or 30 people because thats all youll be doing as an MS4). on the other hand, you seem to be saying that doing anything positive is "an impossible task" in many places.

and maybe they very well might be. but we have to try. it certainly wont hurt if a lot more of us go to a third world country as a medical student to see for ourselves whether some of our talents might be used there.

it still seems to me you are discounting all third world health work based on the extreme toughness of the aids crisis in africa. there are other things out there. throwing up your hands because aids is so difficult to bringi down seems a tad bit shortsighted to me.

i dont quite see the relevance of your contingency plan/being prepared comments, we arent talking about preparing for a hurricane

 

[DropkickMurphy]

it still seems to me you are discounting all third world health work based on the extreme toughness of the aids crisis in africa. there are other things out there. throwing up your hands because aids is so difficult to bringi down seems a tad bit shortsighted to me.

No, not at all. If it were another tsunami, yes, I will go. If there were a hurricane in Central America, I'm willing to go. If there is a problem that is reasonably likely to be resolved or significantly improved in my life, then I will help given an acceptable level of risk.

i dont quite see the relevance of your contingency plan/being prepared comments, we arent talking about preparing for a hurricane

That's why I said in "in other situations". Apparently the idea of expecting it to be horrendous and being pleasantly suprised when it is not, is something your not familiar with?

 

[PariPari]

this isn't a debate about the virtues of international work, it's about finding what international rotations are available at which schools

 

[beffers8888]

So Dropkick, have you already seen it all and come away completely disillusioned?

I think it's ok to have some selfish motivations for wanting to do rotations or volunteer abroad. I love to travel and meet lots of people from different cultures. By volunteering abroad students/physicians can do this and see diseases that they might not have seen and do some good. No, it's not a long term solution to their problems but if you ask the individuals that receive help that they wouldn't have otherwise received they will most likely appreciate it.

 

[biggoron42]

Apparently the idea of expecting it to be horrendous and being pleasantly suprised when it is not, is something your not familiar with?

nope not at all, lol

lets just say different strokes for differentn folks and leave it at that. i guess we are guilty of threadjacking

anyway, if you want to see a good list of schools, check out that thread link i posted in my first response on this thread.

 

[beffers8888]

To get back to the original topic, it seems that international medicine has become quite trendy lately and more medical schools offer international rotations than don't.