BrainBuff

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I ran into a few old threads on the topic. Could you guys mention the schools that you are familiar with that have a Pass/Fail no grades system?

I know that some shools have had in the past (MCW was one of them) and I would like to verify some new ones. I think there is a merit to this approach "learning for the sake of learning"...I think getting an updated list would be helpful..I ll start.

Yale Medical School
 

notdeadyet

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Try going here. You can look at any school you're interested in and it will tell you what grading interval is used in what years. Some schools are pass/fail for some years and graded intervals in others.

Lists where you poll anonymous folks on grading intervals gets messy, because you get folks piping in who graduated a while ago and the grading system has changed or (more often) folks who don't attend pipe in about something they don't know firsthand.

Check with the AAMC link. They'll tell you the interval for any school.
 
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se2131

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I may be mistaken on a couple of these, but:

Northwestern
CWRU (no internal rankings either)
Emory (just switched to P/F for both years from what I've heard)
NYU
WUSTL (only for year one, MII = H/HP/P/F)
 

notdeadyet

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WUSTL (only for year one, MII = H/HP/P/F)
I wouldn't classifly that as P/F.

H/HP/P/F is A/B/C/F in disguise. Pass Fail is just that: P/F. You could make an argument for H/P/F, but anything beyond that is the equivalent of grades...
 

se2131

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I wouldn't classifly that as P/F.

H/HP/P/F is A/B/C/F in disguise. Pass Fail is just that: P/F. You could make an argument for H/P/F, but anything beyond that is the equivalent of grades...

I meant that WUSTL is only P/F for year one, and for year two it's H/HP/P/F (which I agree w/ you in that it's basically like grades)
 

CornellPreMed

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Stanford, I believe, is P/F all 4 years.
Upenn is P/F for the 1st half of the 1st year, and P/F/H after that
 

tocems

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Rochester is pass/fail for years 1 and 2.
MCW is not pass fail...well, they are fail, low pass, pass, high pass, honors...and that is the same as A,B,C,D, and F
 

luitime2585

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University of Connecticut: Pass/Fail (1st and 2nd Year), Honors/Pass/Fail (3rd and 4th)

University of Pittsburgh: Honors/Pass/Fail (1st and 2nd Year), High Pass/Pass/Low Pass/Fail (3rd and 4th)
 
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JH377

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Einstein is P/F first two years then H/HP/P/F after that.You just have to make some schools are pass fail but rank you in the first two years for AOA and some even let residencies know the rankings making the p/f concept useless.
 

lord_jeebus

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Don't overlook the fact that every medical school (I am almost certain there is no exception) will give you an "adjective" in your MSPE (aka Dean's Letter) indicating where you stand relative to your class. This adjective is very important. So in truth, almost all if not all medical schools operate on an outstanding/excellent/very good/good/adequate grading scale.

Your clinical evals, whether leading to a P/F or H/P/F or whatever, may often compare you to your peers as well.

There's really no escaping the fact that you will be compared with your classmates, and these comparisons will influence your residency applications.
 

Salsa45

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Try going here. You can look at any school you're interested in and it will tell you what grading interval is used in what years. Some schools are pass/fail for some years and graded intervals in others.

Lists where you poll anonymous folks on grading intervals gets messy, because you get folks piping in who graduated a while ago and the grading system has changed or (more often) folks who don't attend pipe in about something they don't know firsthand.

Check with the AAMC link. They'll tell you the interval for any school.

Is there a similar link for med schools who use PBL (Problem Based Learning)?
 

BrainBuff

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I was under the impression that while the system may be p/f etc. that there is still a ranking of the class (for the AOA thing)

You are right. But the ranking then takes into consideration your evaluations, research, etc and the results of the first USMLE. I have seen some Dean letters for residency that make the recommendations as Enthusiastically Recommended, Highly Recommended, Recommended without reservations..etc.

I think all the variability is kind of a pain for the different residency programs because they need to familiarize themselves with all this nomenclature...
 

BrainBuff

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Try going here. You can look at any school you're interested in and it will tell you what grading interval is used in what years. Some schools are pass/fail for some years and graded intervals in others.

Lists where you poll anonymous folks on grading intervals gets messy, because you get folks piping in who graduated a while ago and the grading system has changed or (more often) folks who don't attend pipe in about something they don't know firsthand.

Check with the AAMC link. They'll tell you the interval for any school.

Great link, dude. These are apparently the only schools (including canadian schools) that have both Basic sciences and Clinical clerkships ( Required ) and i guess all 4 years Pass/Fail :

Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Morehouse School of Medicine
Northern Ontario School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of Alabama School of Medicine
University of Calgary Faculty of Medicine
University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine
University of Kentucky College of Medicine
University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Utah School of Medicine
University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences

I was surprised about Stanford and Chicago. That's great though!
 
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Great link, dude. These are apparently the only schools (including canadian schools) that have both Basic sciences and Clinical clerkships ( Required ) and i guess all 4 years Pass/Fail :

Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Morehouse School of Medicine
Northern Ontario School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of Alabama School of Medicine
University of Calgary Faculty of Medicine
University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine
University of Kentucky College of Medicine
University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Utah School of Medicine
University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences

I was surprised about Stanford and Chicago. That's great though!

I love the idea of a true pass/fail system (ie no GPA).

From my experiences at Geffen, it seems that the grading system breeds excellence, happier students, and minimizes (or abolishes the need for) "gunnerism." I don't see why EVERY school isn't pass/fail.
 

hra87

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There are likely no true pass/fail schools. One way or another, the residency directors will know how you stack up.
 

ColKurtz

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Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Morehouse School of Medicine
Northern Ontario School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of Alabama School of Medicine
University of Calgary Faculty of Medicine
University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine
University of Kentucky College of Medicine
University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Utah School of Medicine
University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences

I know for a fact that this is wrong.
 
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thejonqproject

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people are going to be competitive everywhere they go. they will find ways to compete with you... i've heard of people even at these 4 year p/f schools that will take call every 2 days as opposed to every 4 days when in a certain clerkship to get that outstanding letter...forcing you to do the same and so forth and so forth.
 

CubaLibre

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Try going here. You can look at any school you're interested in and it will tell you what grading interval is used in what years. Some schools are pass/fail for some years and graded intervals in others.

Lists where you poll anonymous folks on grading intervals gets messy, because you get folks piping in who graduated a while ago and the grading system has changed or (more often) folks who don't attend pipe in about something they don't know firsthand.

Check with the AAMC link. They'll tell you the interval for any school.

not entirely accurate. saw a few discrepancies.
 

pride4jc727

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UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson is P/F for the first 2 years... i love it!

When I went on the orientation session and tour last Friday, they touted this fact. I do hope when the Adcom meet later this month, they let me in because I just love the school and what it has to offer, which goes beyond the P/F system of the first 2 years.
 

Putrescine

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From my experiences at Geffen, it seems that the grading system breeds excellence, happier students, and minimizes (or abolishes the need for) "gunnerism." I don't see why EVERY school isn't pass/fail.

Im a finishing fourth year at UCLA medical school now, and yes at the core our school is pass/fail for all of the four years. There is however a special "Letter of Distinction" that you can earn at the end of your preclinical courses or clinical clerkships - and the criteria for earning this letter is pretty much the same criteria for earning honors at any other medical school out there.

Our school even goes as far as not doing a class rank in the dean's letter, which can work against you in the application process. During my interviews this year, several times interviewers made comments about not knowing how "good" I truly was since I had no class rank, or letter grades - just USMLE scores and some letters of distinction. However, our school routinely matches people into elite programs in every given specialty, so obviously there are other factors that make up for it.

I totally agree that the system breeds excellence without you having to break your balls and be a competitive gunner jackass. I had no problem collaborating with my classmates to try to learn the material as best as possible without worrying about making the A grade in the class. The letter of distinction of course was always an option, but honestly - the entirety of my first and second years of medical school were summed up in a four sentence paragraph. I have worked with most of my classmates throughout the 3rd and 4th years and I must say that I have never run across a gunner. We're all extremely happy to have gone to UCLA for medical school, and you should give us a look if you're looking for a superb education without the strict competitive environment in a wonderful city with fun to be had every single weekend out in Hollywood, Beverly Hills, The Beach, Downtown LA, etc.
 

XerxesMD

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Im a finishing fourth year at UCLA medical school now, and yes at the core our school is pass/fail for all of the four years. There is however a special "Letter of Distinction" that you can earn at the end of your preclinical courses or clinical clerkships - and the criteria for earning this letter is pretty much the same criteria for earning honors at any other medical school out there.

Our school even goes as far as not doing a class rank in the dean's letter, which can work against you in the application process. During my interviews this year, several times interviewers made comments about not knowing how "good" I truly was since I had no class rank, or letter grades - just USMLE scores and some letters of distinction. However, our school routinely matches people into elite programs in every given specialty, so obviously there are other factors that make up for it.

I totally agree that the system breeds excellence without you having to break your balls and be a competitive gunner jackass. I had no problem collaborating with my classmates to try to learn the material as best as possible without worrying about making the A grade in the class. The letter of distinction of course was always an option, but honestly - the entirety of my first and second years of medical school were summed up in a four sentence paragraph. I have worked with most of my classmates throughout the 3rd and 4th years and I must say that I have never run across a gunner. We're all extremely happy to have gone to UCLA for medical school, and you should give us a look if you're looking for a superb education without the strict competitive environment in a wonderful city with fun to be had every single weekend out in Hollywood, Beverly Hills, The Beach, Downtown LA, etc.

Well said :thumbup:
 

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The University of Kentucky is definitely not pass/fail. They are on a A/B/C/D/F grading scale system at least for the first two years...
 

notdeadyet

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not entirely accurate. saw a few discrepancies.
Oh, I'm sure AAMC has a few mistakes. But overall, I trust their report a bit more than folks who toss out names on SDN. Lot of misinformation on these pages...
 

BrainBuff

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Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Morehouse School of Medicine
Northern Ontario School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of Alabama School of Medicine

University of Calgary Faculty of Medicine
University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine
University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences

This is the current list with the corrections made by those who I believe are talking from first hand experiences.
 

BrainBuff

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There are likely no true pass/fail schools. One way or another, the residency directors will know how you stack up.


Pass/Fail = No A/B/C/D/F It means, you PASS a class or you FAIL a class. That is a TRUE pass/fail school.

We are not discussing here ranked/no ranked schools or "stacked up" vs "not being stacked up", if you prefer.
 
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