MD & DO Med students, help me out

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Goro

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What are some of the most useless assessments that you have to take?

I'm talking quizzes, assignments, etc etc. Mandatory warm sessions you can skip. And please don't say all of them!

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"All Professions Day(s)" - it was almost on par with communist indoctrination... I get it though - it's probably part of accreditation requirements (at least I hope so).
 
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Interprofessional workshops! I mean The dentist/PA/Pharmacist students are cute and all but I really dont need a team-building class with yall
 
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Interprofessional workshops! I mean The dentist/PA/Pharmacist students are cute and all but I really dont need a team-building class with yall
Sometimes, it's interesting though to observe the brainwashing. We had a dental hygiene student who would open every statement with "We, dental hygienists, are at the forefront of discovering and diagnosing systemic diseases..." I am sure that if we would not be required to be on camera through the whole thing, there would be a drinking game about it. Interestingly, the PA students at our school were not required to attend this workshop :cautious::unsure:
 
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Mandatory board prep questions from TrueLearn. At least give us uworld questions instead of garbage questions from truelearn, but i guess they can’t track who did their questions on uworld...
 
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What are some of the most useless assessments that you have to take?

I'm talking quizzes, assignments, etc etc. Mandatory warm sessions you can skip. And please don't say all of them!
You kind of block out the superfluous/tedious work and absurdity that is much of M1 and M2 but one law at my school was that if a faculty said "let's do this different so it will be more fun" then it would decidedly be not fun and in fact the biggest waste of time and annoyance ever. I implore any faculty to avoid re-inventing the wheel.

If you want people to draw something or play some stupid game then just resist the urge. We are all begging you. Make it stop. Please!

I say this as someone who thought preclinical was super cush not even someone who dislikes it.
 
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You kind of block out the superfluous/tedious work and absurdity that is much of M1 and M2 but one law at my school was that if a faculty said "let's do this different so it will be more fun" then it would decidedly be not fun and in fact the biggest waste of time and annoyance ever. I implore any faculty to avoid re-inventing the wheel.

If you want people to draw something or play some stupid game then just resist the urge. We are all begging you. Make it stop. Please!

I say this as someone who thought preclinical was super cush not even someone who dislikes it.
We had to act out the methionine cycle. I was homocysteine.
 
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During first year we had to write 2 essays (1 page each I think) about the cadaver lab and how it had an impact on us and stuff like that. It was a great waste of time and they didn't just give everyone 100's on it, a lot of people didn't do to great on it. But it was only worth a few points
 
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All of em r unnecessary, why do schools feel the need to do this... Just to provide people on salary for some work to do? All schools really need to do are 1- teach material, 2- have practice stuff for students to learn to take history , physical exam etc.
 
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Any of the TBL/PBL/etc. stuff. I was much more efficient in med school at a coffee shop or my apartment than a 2-3 hour TBL session. I learned better when I studied to my learning style as well.
 
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Lecturio. I think they bought it mostly to use as an online homework platform to auto grade some quizzes. However, every now and then they'll mandate that we watch a certain # of videos, which are generally useless and are better explained on BnB.

Mandatory group problem solving - I understand there are some LCME requirements for group work, but I generally get nothing from these sessions, which may be due to being a visual learner. I'd rather just have the time to study on my own.
 
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If you’re going to have a racism panel, try not to get a minority physician who says ridiculously racist things against whites while simultaneously claiming she has no bias or follow her up with a white physician whose only job is to tell the white people in the crowd that they are all racist whether they want to admit it or not. It just makes literally everyone in the crowd uncomfortable.
 
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What are some of the most useless assessments that you have to take?

I'm talking quizzes, assignments, etc etc. Mandatory warm sessions you can skip. And please don't say all of them!
anything at the end of the year after year 1. My god nothing made me more mad than having a ton of onboarding or random OMM quizzes be due during dedicated or as the year was winding down.
 
All of em r unnecessary, why do schools feel the need to do this... Just to provide people on salary for some work to do? All schools really need to do are 1- teach material, 2- have practice stuff for students to learn to take history , physical exam etc.
Can you give us an example of the worst offender?
 
Cutting out the obvious fat, I'd say team-based learning activities. Everyone talks over eachother or is too afraid to ask for clarity on what they "don't know". Its dick-swinging by the most toxic medical students.

Its time that could be spent doing practice questions, anki, reviewing lectures.... you are tested on your own, after all.

"Do one see one teach one" is great for the wards. Not for preclinical.
 
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We had to act out the methionine cycle. I was homocysteine.

I bet you never forget the methionine cycle…. what is it?! I forgot.


Certainly no longer a student. As a professional student, I did “extra” during med school, I also finished two residencies and did research for two years.

TBH, anything that’s not on the steps/board exams are pretty much waste of time. Isn’t the running “joke” that we forget more in med school than most people remember in their life time?

I think faculty need to appreciate the fact that to determine what antibiotics to start in the ED, have absolutely nothing to do with Gram stain. (Start big then narrow down). To give TPA or not is NOT mainly based on whether you know where the lesion is. (A lot of it is clinical judgment). Do I really know how many ATPs are made in kreb cycle? (Unless I am doing genetics, even then… ?)

I don’t pretend to know where the line should be drawn, we need to know a lot of the basics before we can really appreciate what we do daily, or do we? A lot of stuff that I had to memorize, have zero impact of what I do now.

I wish I learned more about dealing with midlevels, dingus peers/administrations and finances, rather than spending time to memorize the methionine cycle.

But this may not be what you’re looking for Goro.
 
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What we didn't need:
1) As others said, interprofessional workshops are awkward and pretty useless if they go well and a nightmare if they don't. Students of other professions attempting to argue or co-opt the physician role were common. Really, any group-based project was bad.
2) We had a problem-based learning/"fill-in-the-blank" note writing program (don't recall the name) which was awful.
3) I got very good at intubating or catheterizing dummies in medical school through multiple required skill sessions. If I tried to do that in the hospital, some nurse would (rightfully) yell at me. I have been, however, asked to place many ultrasound-guided peripheral IVs, which I never learned in med school.

What we do need:
1) Early career planning advice/exposure. I became somewhat interested in ophtho midway through M3 year and when I expressed interest in it during my single career advising meeting was told I should've spent the past two years shadowing and doing research. Oh well.
2) Something subjective on how to write notes. It can be brief, but the majority of my feedback to junior residents is on documentation; I didn't realize to what extent people write notes apparently assuming no one will ever read them.
3) I would build in mandatory shadowing time - including shadowing as part of an inpatient team - in preclinical years.
4) Finances. I know people whose first paying job ever was residency. This was covered a bit in med school (don't take out loans you don't need) but anything beyond that has been on us.

The biggest issue with medical school is two years dedicated to learning and being tested on material few of us will ever need to recall after that test, let alone on step 1 and far less in clinical practice, but that's beyond the scope of the question.
 
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All biochem not in first aid will never matter. One could argue that different parts matter a little to different specialties. But if it’s not in first aid it just does not matter. Step/comlex has zero biochem from outside first aid. And it’s only a handful of questions anyway.
 
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What we do need:
1) Early career planning advice/exposure. I became somewhat interested in ophtho midway through M3 year and when I expressed interest in it during my single career advising meeting was told I should've spent the past two years shadowing and doing research. Oh well.
2) Something subjective on how to write notes. It can be brief, but the majority of my feedback to junior residents is on documentation; I didn't realize to what extent people write notes apparently assuming no one will ever read them.
3) I would build in mandatory shadowing time - including shadowing as part of an inpatient team - in preclinical years.
4) Finances. I know people whose first paying job ever was residency. This was covered a bit in med school (don't take out loans you don't need) but anything beyond that has been on us.

The biggest issue with medical school is two years dedicated to learning and being tested on material few of us will ever need to recall after that test, let alone on step 1 and far less in clinical practice, but that's beyond the scope of the question.
1. We spent so much time memorizing things that will never be used, fine maybe once on an exam, there’s literally no time for anything else.
2. This is probably a byproduct of EMR and the insurance requirements. I was just telling a senior resident that I came up when 3 line plans by attending/senior residents were acceptable. If anyone needs clarifications, just call. I was scolded by a radiologist recently, because the relevant finding was within his report, but not the summary. He basically just told me I should just read the report….. yes, three pages of information that I don’t care. Just because you can dictate/type 100 words a minute, doesn’t always mean you should. But I digress.
3. See point 1.
4. I agree wholeheartedly. Just even walk to our sub, how many graduating senior residents, fellows have no clue how to pick a job, negotiate their contracts worries me to no end.

Sorry Goro, not hijacking. Will now.
 
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Also, nothing—and I literally mean nothing—should be mandatory the day before an exam.
 
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Anything related to wellness lectures
This. As a med student, resident and even attending having someone tell me what should make me “well” is the most insulting and stupid waste of my time I have ever experienced. Literally everyone would be more well if the entire wellness “lecture” was just: ok, go do whatever you want for a day.
 
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navigated a massive amount of snow for a mandatory in person session about what color my personality is.
The beatings will continue until moral improves
 
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Yeah sadly the inter professional stuff is most definitely an LCME requirement. It was actually my complaining about that very thing that led to me learning how some things are forced on the schools too.

I was definitely in many lectures and activities that felt like a waste of time but that was generally more the result of execution rather than the subject matter. Team based learning with a great preceptor and a well designed module that integrates concepts currently being taught was very helpful. The same activity with an unmotivated faculty member, poorly designed module, and poorly timed in the curriculum was just a waste.

I was lucky to come through before CRT and DEI were things so the cultural awareness and racism in medicine talks were actually pretty helpful. They were focused more on how to deliver effective care to different groups and awareness of social determinants of health ( which has shown up on my various usmle exams) rather than performative white faculty members trying to win medals in the woke olympics. I would suspect that these lectures are an absolute waste of time now.
 
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Mandatory specialist lectures that will have absolutely no bearing on the exams. I remember taking detailed notes on various surgical ortho treatments during a lecture by a ortho trauma surgeon, and of course this did not show up on exams. These lectures are cool but at least make them optional or prompt if/what topics it will be on the exam.
 
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Yeah sadly the inter professional stuff is most definitely an LCME requirement. It was actually my complaining about that very thing that led to me learning how some things are forced on the schools too.

I was definitely in many lectures and activities that felt like a waste of time but that was generally more the result of execution rather than the subject matter. Team based learning with a great preceptor and a well designed module that integrates concepts currently being taught was very helpful. The same activity with an unmotivated faculty member, poorly designed module, and poorly timed in the curriculum was just a waste.

I was lucky to come through before CRT and DEI were things so the cultural awareness and racism in medicine talks were actually pretty helpful. They were focused more on how to deliver effective care to different groups and awareness of social determinants of health ( which has shown up on my various usmle exams) rather than performative white faculty members trying to win medals in the woke olympics. I would suspect that these lectures are an absolute waste of time now.
Are wellness lectures an LCME requirement? Because whoever thought that was a great idea should be fired
 
Reiterating a lot that was already said:
1) mandatory wellness anything. There should be a block on the schedule that says “wellness”, and it should simply mean that nothing can be scheduled there. Students can do whatever they want during that time. And it isn’t the faculty’s business what I do during my wellness time.
2) Interprofessional anything. At my school, the pharmacy/dental/OT students were too timid/shy, literally never contributed. The med students answered all the questions and the activities were always way too simple for any level of graduate education. It’s like, they couldn’t find an appropriate activity that would engage every type of student, so they landed on activities literal high school students could do as a “compromise”. And of course it always lasts five hours…
 
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Are wellness lectures an LCME requirement? Because whoever thought that was a great idea should be fired
I know the LCME requires that schools have programs and resources for student wellness though I don’t believe it mandates the exact nature of what those must be. They could be lectures, small group activities, online modules - lots of things. I think they’d probably get dinged if they weren’t providing significant direct instruction on the topic though. Just saying there are counseling resources available probably won’t cut it.
 
I know the LCME requires that schools have programs and resources for student wellness though I don’t believe it mandates the exact nature of what those must be. They could be lectures, small group activities, online modules - lots of things. I think they’d probably get dinged if they weren’t providing significant direct instruction on the topic though. Just saying there are counseling resources available probably won’t cut it.
I think a lot of problems now are due to the LCME itself
 
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There should be a block on the schedule that says “wellness”, and it should simply mean that nothing can be scheduled there. Students can do whatever they want during that time. And it isn’t the faculty’s business what I do during my wellness time.

My school did this. It was great. There was one wellness session during orientation and then maybe a 5 minute spiel at the end of a lecture shortly before the first major exam. Otherwise it was just time off, and sometimes with *optional* wellness activities like yoga/painting etc.

Like operaman said, I think a well done TBL session can be pretty helpful for learning. My school was super heavy on TBL, but generally the sessions were much higher quality than what people seem to describe here. The faculty I've spoken to seem to like the TBL format (after the first time) since the students have seen the material before and tend to be more engaged, plus they're not just lecturing the whole time.


PBL sucks, and I hope to never do it again. Always felt super inefficient, and it was too easy to end up missing key points because of how the learning objectives were phrased.
 
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Wellness lectures, just to be the ten millionth person who says it. If you have to have something, make it an online “course” where you don’t actually have to take the course, you can just skip straight to the quiz and you have unlimited attempts to take the quiz with the right answers shown after each attempt.

Any lecture on somebody’s personal research. Faculty lectures ought to be periodically audited and if they get caught talking about their own nonsense other than a brief mention, tell them they have to rewrite their lectures.

Cut time out of biochem and have a course on the business/legal side of medicine... including all the side gigs you can do with medicine and what the legal requirements are for those.

Also helpful would be an optional ethics review before boards where faculty do some teaching on what logic to use when approaching these questions, because there are a ton of them on boards now and some can be tricky.
 
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whose only job is to tell the white people in the crowd that they are all racist whether they want to admit it or not.
Sounds like they were addressing unconscious biases, which exist in everyone and can be extremely harmful to our patients if not addressed and explored. I'm glad people felt uncomfortable, that's the point - it's not supposed to be a comfortable conversation.

Edit: It's extremely disheartening to see the dislikes on posts like this. While I'm sure you'll all be excellent physicians, I do hope you don't practice in predominantly disenfranchised communities if you continue to feel this way.
 
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Sounds like they were addressing unconscious biases, which exist in everyone and can be extremely harmful to our patients if not addressed and explored. I'm glad people felt uncomfortable, that's the point - it's not supposed to be a comfortable conversation.

If you think that every white person is a racist simply because they’re white, you’re part of the problem.
 
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If you think that every white person is a racist simply because they’re white, you’re part of the problem.
Cool, not what I said though. And if you think that's what I meant with what I said, you're part of the problem bud.



 
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1. Any interprofessional workshops. Please stop, they are worthless.
2. Anything during dedicated. Please let us just focus on our tests
3. Pretty much any online module training.
 
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Interprofessional stuff. As an RN->MS4, I can state that half of what we "learned" was baloney and offensive.

And the PA students don't have to attend because "they're too busy." Pretty messed up to assume that a PA student is working harder than an MD student :rolleyes:
 
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I bet you never forget the methionine cycle…. what is it?! I forgot.


Certainly no longer a student. As a professional student, I did “extra” during med school, I also finished two residencies and did research for two years.

TBH, anything that’s not on the steps/board exams are pretty much waste of time. Isn’t the running “joke” that we forget more in med school than most people remember in their life time?

I think faculty need to appreciate the fact that to determine what antibiotics to start in the ED, have absolutely nothing to do with Gram stain. (Start big then narrow down). To give TPA or not is NOT mainly based on whether you know where the lesion is. (A lot of it is clinical judgment). Do I really know how many ATPs are made in kreb cycle? (Unless I am doing genetics, even then… ?)

I don’t pretend to know where the line should be drawn, we need to know a lot of the basics before we can really appreciate what we do daily, or do we? A lot of stuff that I had to memorize, have zero impact of what I do now.

I wish I learned more about dealing with midlevels, dingus peers/administrations and finances, rather than spending time to memorize the methionine cycle.

But this may not be what you’re looking for Goro.
36 ATPs YOU MONSTER
 
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And here I thought I was going to derange this thread…..
Well at least someone called out someone (a mod none the less) for crying about rEveRse RacIsm, and then that mod proceded to insinuate that that person was calling white people racist when they didn't even say anything like that lmfao

User: "People do have inherent biases that have to be addressed, it can be uncomfortable to talk about but as caregivers it's our responsibility to be introspective about these issues"

Mod: "wot in the... are you calling all white people racist you racist??"
 
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Here's a few things I'd change if I was grand poobah -

Lectures should be recorded and streamable at any time. Let students go through the material at their own pace. Let professors spend their time on good interactive small group sessions instead. They can update the recorded lectures every few years PRN. Just have the unit test at the end, no mandatory quizzes along the way to make sure we're studying. We are adult learners soon to be trusted with people's healthcare, treat us like it. Everything should be Pass/Fail.

Compress preclinicals to 1 year.

Your initial clinical year should not be all the required core clerkships back to back. It should have a bunch of elective blocks so people can explore outside of IM/Surg/OB/Peds/Neuro/Psych. Let people push the ones they know they're not interested in to MS4.

Clerkships should be pass/fail. Advanced clerkships/Sub-Is and aways should be graded, but in a standardized way (like EM with SLOEs). Grades that are based on what evaluators you get assigned, or where everyone gets Honors, are useless.

People should be allowed to take USMLEs whenever they want and take as much dedicated time as they want (as long as they're on track to graduate on time). It's the unfortunate reality that these scores matter more for med students than anything else they could do with their time, so forcing them to take it on the school's schedule is just hamstringing the entire class.
 
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There's a few, but the most egregious offender of taking up time was having to do mandatory learning objective presentations for each PBL, with PBL being 3x/week...
 
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Late to the party, but TBL lectures that involve watching 5 hours of material (on top of normal lectures) and the collaborating with classmates (retake the same quiz twice, do two case-based assignments spanning over 4 hours). My time could be spent in a much more efficient manner.
 
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Well at least someone called out someone (a mod none the less) for crying about rEveRse RacIsm, and then that mod proceded to insinuate that that person was calling white people racist when they didn't even say anything like that lmfao

User: "People do have inherent biases that have to be addressed, it can be uncomfortable to talk about but as caregivers it's our responsibility to be introspective about these issues"

Mod: "wot in the... are you calling all white people racist you racist??"
Holy critical reading skills Batman! If you had read the original post by @Matthew9Thirtyfive he said that the lecturer was saying exactly that. That’s why it makes sense when someone responds by saying “she’s just teaching about unconscious bias” that he responds with “if you (assuming the Royal you) believe all white people are racist, you’re part of the problem.” Trying to justify calling all white people racist by thinly veiling it as “unconscious bias training” and saying that “white people should be uncomfortable” makes you (the Royal you) part of the problem.
 
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For reference, I’m a BIPOC who had similar lectures at my school that were mostly pushed for by white woke women and man did I find the lack of egalitarianism with regards to how they approached racial hostilities really abhorrent.
 
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Sounds like they were addressing unconscious biases, which exist in everyone and can be extremely harmful to our patients if not addressed and explored. I'm glad people felt uncomfortable, that's the point - it's not supposed to be a comfortable conversation.

Edit: It's extremely disheartening to see the dislikes on posts like this. While I'm sure you'll all be excellent physicians, I do hope you don't practice in predominantly disenfranchised communities if you continue to feel this way.
At medical schools, workshops teaching students how to self-assess attitudes towards minorities and how to be mindful of behavior towards all patients, may be useful.

What @Matthew9Thirtyfive is calling out are med school lectures on racism that turn into race-shaming of white people, making students confused for a day then forget about it the next day.
 
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