Med vs Dent in terms of Money

[SCDP]

So let's say I would enjoy both medicine and dentistry equally and if I were to be a doctor I would do internal medicine and if I were a dentist I would do general dentistry. Now which one would you say is better to go for when it comes to money as the deciding factor between the two. I feel like I would enjoy both but can't decide and I feel like money is a good deciding factor. Now what say you about the money in each field? I have experience with the internal medicine side as my mom works as a hospitalist making 200k and getting a ton of offs like 5 stretches of 3 weeks off not to mention that she never works two weeks in a row.

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[MAdental]

Medicine for sure.

 

[skyguy1]

really broad question.. from my experience in Canada.... all the dentists (3-4 years out of school) i know make between 200k-400k easily. They are very business oriented dentists though. It also depends what u specialize in for med. Some residencies take an extra 3-5 years on top of the 4 years and so you wont be making much during that time. I know an ophthalmologist who makes ~700k. So it depends on alot of factors.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You can't really answer this question with much accuracy. Too much variation in what a general dentist can make. For the most part, and more so in the future, IM physicians don't have nearly as wide of an income variance.

IMO, if you are deciding between general IM and general dentistry, I would go with dentistry.

 

[Ferneezy]

dentistry any day and twice on sunday. in terms of absolute income IM probably wins, but GD money is arguably easier with greater independence.

speaking as someone who has worked before.

 

[dentalWorks]

So let's say I would enjoy both medicine and dentistry equally and if I were to be a doctor I would do internal medicine and if I were a dentist I would do general dentistry. Now which one would you say is better to go for when it comes to money as the deciding factor between the two. I feel like I would enjoy both but can't decide and I feel like money is a good deciding factor. Now what say you about the money in each field? I have experience with the internal medicine side as my mom works as a hospitalist making 200k and getting a ton of offs like 5 stretches of 3 weeks off not to mention that she never works two weeks in a row.

bad place to ask this question, think about it, pre-dents and even dental students will just resight google searches for average incomes between the two.

but putting money aside, how about working hours? if average internet salary is similar to average general dentist (say, 150k a year) what about their working hours? I bet the dentist works less hours during the week.

 

[SCDP]

bad place to ask this question, think about it, pre-dents and even dental students will just resight google searches for average incomes between the two.

but putting money aside, how about working hours? if average internet salary is similar to average general dentist (say, 150k a year) what about their working hours? I bet the dentist works less hours during the week.

Well I will say this, my mom as an internal medicine hospitalist is working only 20 weeks out of the year, the weeks she does work is 7-7, mostly days some nights, and is making 200k a year. That is fricking 32 weeks out of a year off and still making 200k! As a dentist I am really worried that I might not be able to find a high paying job like that or at least until starting up my own practice and even then there is so much other work for managing your practice... I just don't know what to do

 

[sjv]

Well I will say this, my mom as an internal medicine hospitalist is working only 20 weeks out of the year, the weeks she does work is 7-7, mostly days some nights, and is making 200k a year. That is fricking 32 weeks out of a year off and still making 200k! As a dentist I am really worried that I might not be able to find a high paying job like that or at least until starting up my own practice and even then there is so much other work for managing your practice... I just don't know what to do

If it was really that easy, internal medicine would be more desirable. Your mom is n=1 and is neither representative of the internal medicine population nor representative of 9-10 years from now when you will actually enter the field.

 

[distressstudent]

Well I will say this, my mom as an internal medicine hospitalist is working only 20 weeks out of the year, the weeks she does work is 7-7, mostly days some nights, and is making 200k a year. That is fricking 32 weeks out of a year off and still making 200k! As a dentist I am really worried that I might not be able to find a high paying job like that or at least until starting up my own practice and even then there is so much other work for managing your practice... I just don't know what to do

Is your concern about maximizing your profits, or is it about having a high paying job. Because I can tell you straight up that as a dentists, you will have a high paying job. Even as an associate you can make around 100k (that's a high paying job).

 

[WastedTime]

Is your concern about maximizing your profits, or is it about having a high paying job. Because I can tell you straight up that as a dentists, you will have a high paying job. Even as an associate you can make around 100k (that's a high paying job).

High paying where and under what circumstances (in other words debts)???

 

[distressstudent]

High paying where and under what circumstances (in other words debts)???

ಠ_ಠ

 

[WastedTime]

ಠ_ಠ

-_-

 

[dentalWorks]

Well I will say this, my mom as an internal medicine hospitalist is working only 20 weeks out of the year, the weeks she does work is 7-7, mostly days some nights, and is making 200k a year. That is fricking 32 weeks out of a year off and still making 200k! As a dentist I am really worried that I might not be able to find a high paying job like that or at least until starting up my own practice and even then there is so much other work for managing your practice... I just don't know what to do

you can't generalize based on a single example. If thats how we are basing our arguments, I can quote you some of our volunteer dentists in our school (yes, general practitioners - not specialist) who make heavy 6 figure incomes because they own multiple practices. But you don't see me doing that since thats not the norm.

most internal medicine folks work in private practices (either associates, ownership, or partnership).

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You can work 20 weeks out of the year as an IM hospitalist, but you will work your ass off for every penny of that 200k. It's intense work, not a lifestyle career.

 

[hs2013]

You can work 20 weeks out of the year as an IM hospitalist, but you will work your ass off for every penny of that 200k. It's intense work, not a lifestyle career.

Though the 32 weeks off give you quite the lifestyle to travel and enjoy life and your money as long as you aren't stupid with it spending on huge houses and cars and stuff, you could probably travel 16 weeks of a year.

And yes this may not be the norm, but I do know several other doctors at least in my state and nearby states that have the same gig as my mom but are working full time and making even more.

 

[hs2013]

Is your concern about maximizing your profits, or is it about having a high paying job. Because I can tell you straight up that as a dentists, you will have a high paying job. Even as an associate you can make around 100k (that's a high paying job).

I want a high paying job, and yes I will up front say that money is a huge factor in me wanting to be a doctor/dentist but it is ALSO something I would enjoy doing as a career, or at least enjoy it as much as any other realistic job out there.

I want to be making around 125-150k my first few years and closer to the 200-250k range at least 5 years into my career, is that reasonable to expect or close to the norm as a dentist?? If the answer to this question is yes, then I think I would love to pursue dentistry.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Though the 32 weeks off give you quite the lifestyle to travel and enjoy life and your money as long as you aren't stupid with it spending on huge houses and cars and stuff, you could probably travel 16 weeks of a year.

And yes this may not be the norm, but I do know several other doctors at least in my state and nearby states that have the same gig as my mom but are working full time and making even more.

Then I wonder why the burnout rate is so high...

 

[Datooth]

I want a high paying job, and yes I will up front say that money is a huge factor in me wanting to be a doctor/dentist but it is ALSO something I would enjoy doing as a career, or at least enjoy it as much as any other realistic job out there.

I want to be making around 125-150k my first few years and closer to the 200-250k range at least 5 years into my career, is that reasonable to expect or close to the norm as a dentist?? If the answer to this question is yes, then I think I would love to pursue dentistry.

To my understanding, the income you've suggested is possible. What you really need to consider is where you plan to start practicing after you graduate DS. If you plan to live in an area that is densely populated by dentists (most desirable locations) you're better off with Medicine.

 

[Mattthias]

Terrible reason to go into either field. People like you are what's wrong with the medical and dental systems.

 

[Datooth]

Terrible reason to go into either field. People like you are what's wrong with the medical and dental systems.

Just because someone is motivated by money doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a detriment to either field. Stop being naive.

 

[Mattthias]

Just because someone is motivated by money doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a detriment to either field. Stop being naive.

Doctors motivated by money are usually the ones who will cut corners to save on overhead. It's a slippery slope and I've seen it first hand. They bring down the entire profession. Believe me when it comes to making either 235,000 a year or 245,000 a year there are depths certain people will sink to.

Now saying that money is his main motivation to choose a field doesn't necessarily mean he will do this but it's definitely not a good sign.

 

[SM555]

The problem with google searches is that there are so many dentists working in over saturated areas making lower pay (125k) and so many that only work 3 days a week. I've been told by 4 dentists in my area, which has a huge need for dentists, that the salary for them is 400-600k . They of course have their own practices

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Doctors motivated by money are usually the ones who will cut corners to save on overhead. It's a slippery slope and I've seen it first hand. They bring down the entire profession. Believe me when it comes to making either 235,000 a year or 245,000 a year there are depths certain people will sink to.

Now saying that money is his main motivation to choose a field doesn't necessarily mean he will do this but it's definitely not a good sign.

Not really. From what I've seen salaried doctors who work at a hospital and receive a fixed income (which is traditionally a lower income than those in private practice who are often painted as the 'doctors motivated by money') are usually ones who could really care less about the patients and are there simply do the least work and collect their paycheck.


As for the OP's question, medicine is more likely to be a safe career if you are just looking for a 200-250k job and are fine with that income. Emergency medicine (where you work shifts) is great for this. Being an IM doc in a really rural area can also lead to that income. However, if you want to break 250k or are looking for better hours, more autonomy, less hassle, and less stress in your lifestyle, than dentistry is better.

 

[Troyvdg]

Not really. From what I've seen salaried doctors who work at a hospital and receive a fixed income (which is traditionally a lower income than those in private practice who are often painted as the 'doctors motivated by money') are usually ones who could really care less about the patients and are there simply do the least work and collect their paycheck.


As for the OP's question, medicine is more likely to be a safe career if you are just looking for a 200-250k job and are fine with that income. Emergency medicine (where you work shifts) is great for this. Being an IM doc in a really rural area can also lead to that income. However, if you want to break 250k or are looking for better hours, more autonomy, less hassle, and less stress in your lifestyle, than dentistry is better.

If you want to break 250k? Dentistry is better? Surely you're not talking about general dentistry, or net incomes. If you are, it's not the norm, or nationwide average. Medicine has more high paying specialties. End of story.

 

[Datooth]

If you want to break 250k? Dentistry is better? Surely you're not talking about general dentistry, or net incomes. If you are, it's not the norm, or nationwide average. Medicine has more high paying specialties. End of story.

Not to say that you're wrong, (I think you're right) but what nationwide average are you speaking of? To my knowledge, our understanding of the average dental income is mediocre at best. BLS reports on those employed (aka not practice owners) and the ADA reported averages are also inaccurate (not all dentists reporting / some dentists not reporting real income). IIRC, the most recent ADA survey reported a response rate of somewhere in the ~20% region.

 

[Troyvdg]

Not to say that you're wrong, (I think you're right) but what nationwide average are you speaking of? To my knowledge, our understanding of the average dental income is mediocre at best. BLS reports on those employed (aka not practice owners) and the ADA reported averages are also inaccurate (not all dentists reporting / some dentists not reporting real income). IIRC, the most recent ADA survey reported a response rate of somewhere in the ~20% region.

true, there are some discrepancies with the ADA surveys, but that's present with any survey. Its hard to represent the entire population as a whole (both medical or dental). I'm all for being optimistic about earning potential, but, if in doubt, talk to some of dentists you've been shadowing.

 

[Datooth]

true, there are some discrepancies with the ADA surveys, but that's present with any survey. Its hard to represent the entire population as a whole (both medical or dental). I'm all for being optimistic about earning potential, but, if in doubt, talk to some of dentists you've been shadowing.

That's where my doubts stem from and why I always say it depends on where you decide to practice. The dentists I've shadowed (mind you I live near the boonies) told me they made well above the 'average'. I'm not sure if they're lying, but after 3rd dentist I've shadowed claimed otherwise, I've started to sway in the other direction on the whole income debacle.

 

[longhornpride]

I know plenty of associates making 250-300k. You'll usually have to commute 30-60 minutes outside of a city to make that kind of money however. The other associate at the office I'm at is making 550k this year working 4 days a week. The owner (my boss) is producing 200k a month on his own. Another one of my friends is making 370k his first year out at a community health center doing just fillings, exams, and extractions. On the flip side... my PCP is an internal medicine doc. He's a good family friend. He's making well over a mil a year but that's because he owns a very successful practice and has made very good investments. Money can be made in either field. Finding the right opportunity combined with great business skills will open many doors.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Terrible reason to go into either field. People like you are what's wrong with the medical and dental systems.

What a ridiculous statement. Financial security is huge motivating factor for many people trying to enter this field. Even more so for those of is who already have a family to support. Though, I agree that you should have other motivations as well (which is the argument I think you were trying to make, not the one you made), we certainly don't do all this work to get into dentistry for free.

 

[Daneosaurus]

The problem with google searches is that there are so many dentists working in over saturated areas making lower pay (125k) and so many that only work 3 days a week. I've been told by 4 dentists in my area, which has a huge need for dentists, that the salary for them is 400-600k . They of course have their own practices

$125k is "lower" pay? Sign me up! I've made roughly a quarter of that my entire life.

 

[CleverThought]

$125k is "lower" pay? Sign me up! I've made roughly a quarter of that my entire life.

I agree with that point. So many people get caught up with which career will make you more money, but take a moment and step back to think about what other career path can you take that will all but guarantee a minimum salary of $125k? Keep in mind the average family household income in America is around $50k, as a single person you more than double the average income, at a minimum. This is all without weekends and holidays, something that a lot of careers in medicine can't promise.

The beauty of dentistry is that you get out what you put into it. If you master the business side of things, the sky is truly the limit. Medicine is moving more and more away from private practice and more towards hospital and hospital owned clinics. This puts somewhat of a cap on income. Plus, the affordable care act leaves a lot of unknown in the medical industry. Luckily dentistry isn't having to deal quite as much with the ACA bs.

Admittedly, you're going to get a biased viewpoint on this forum. But I think largely the career path is based on your desires and strengths. If the idea of running a business appeals to you and you are willing to pour yourself into a business and want a limitless income potential- I would consider dentistry. But keep in mind, the direction dentistry is heading these days doesn't allow you to rely on solely good clinical skills. You need to hustle and bust booty on the business end. But a benefit is that after four years of dental school you are done, unless you pursue a specialty or gpr/aegd. With medicine you aren't in be high income producing potential until a few years past medical school.

Medicine is a good option for you if the business side doesn't really appeal to you. A safe, but still high, paycheck will be there for you. Most of the tim you will have to work some weekends and holidays. And take call. Plus, what happens if you don't at him to the specialty you wanted?

 

[ktran17]

If you take into account Loan repayment programs in health clinics, you are effectively guaranteed 105-145k starting salary + 25-50k (tax exempt) loan repayments. After the first 2-3 years, you won't even have to contribute a dime of your income to your loan and you'll still be able to pay it off. Can you guys even imagine living with 125k base salary + tons of benefits (All of which won't or will minimally contribute to your student loans)? That is a heck of a lot of disposable income..

This is assuming that you work in one of the lowest paid sectors of dentistry (public health) for the rest of your life. It also assumes you won't advance anywhere in your career. Despite all these negative assumptions, the outcome is still pretty darn good!

Now realistically, if you decide to remain in public health for life, you will most likely advance to the director position. From my own research, health clinic directors make well over 160k per year base salary, we're not even including benefits.. (I found this out by calling several public health clinics around the area where I'm interested in practicing, not Alaska btw) .

^ That is an AWESOME worst case scenario.

In addition, you can also work more hours on the side (private practice) and make even more money! That is the beauty of dentistry, you are in full control of your income potential. You can work as much or as little as you want!

I did not even talk about the potential from the business ownership side of dentistry either..

The sky is definitely not falling, just live a bit frugally the first 2-3 years to get rid of all that interest (treat it like your "residency" years and you'll be fine) !

 

[SCDP]

I know plenty of associates making 250-300k. You'll usually have to commute 30-60 minutes outside of a city to make that kind of money however. The other associate at the office I'm at is making 550k this year working 4 days a week. The owner (my boss) is producing 200k a month on his own. Another one of my friends is making 370k his first year out at a community health center doing just fillings, exams, and extractions. On the flip side... my PCP is an internal medicine doc. He's a good family friend. He's making well over a mil a year but that's because he owns a very successful practice and has made very good investments. Money can be made in either field. Finding the right opportunity combined with great business skills will open many doors.

Well, surely you must be at a damn successful practice if one dude is making 550k a year, you I'm guessing over 250k, and the boss making 2.4 million, surely that is the exception, I mean it must be hard as heck to find dentists making that much. You know plenty of associates making 250-300k? They must either have hook ups or can you literally find jobs as an associate like that? And 370k straight out of dental school, my lord, that's my BMW paid off in one year easy with plenty extra to save, invest, enjoy. One can only hope for that much.

 

[SCDP]

Also let me ask this, let's say I'm willing to work anywhere, straight out of dental school on that basis that I'll work anywhere(in the US), can it be assumed that I will find a job making at least 150k?

 

[Datooth]

Also let me ask this, let's say I'm willing to work anywhere, straight out of dental school on that basis that I'll work anywhere(in the US), can it be assumed that I will find a job making at least 150k?

Well, from what I've researched / read the big caveat to a high income is your ability to work quickly and efficiently. You might be able to find a job that is certainly capable of paying you that sum of money but if you cannot keep up, you simply can't produce that type of income. IMO, if you're fast enough, you could find that 150k job provided you were serious about not caring where you lived.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

People always say that Medicine has better opportunity for money, well, that is IF you match into a competitive specialty. The basic question you need to ask yourself is what do you want out of either field? Do you want to work a lot and make a lot, or do you want to work a little and still make 3x the "average" American income? I haven't decided on Medicine on Dentistry yet, but I can tell you that if I go Dental, I plan on opening up a practice and working 3-4 days a week, but if I go Medicine, I will will probably end up doing EM and work 3 days a week too. I have a life you know, and I plan to live it to the fullest. What point is it to have money if you don't have the time to spend it on life?

 

[Mad Jack]

If it was really that easy, internal medicine would be more desirable. Your mom is n=1 and is neither representative of the internal medicine population nor representative of 9-10 years from now when you will actually enter the field.

7 on/7 off block scheduling is pretty standard for hospitalists, with 2-4 weeks paid vacation per year and salaries of 180-220k on the low end DOE. Unless there are massive negative changes in reimbursement (reimbursement for hospitalist services is actually increasing rather than decreasing), hospitalists will likely have similar (or even slightly higher) salaries for the forseeable future.

 

[sjv]

7 on/7 off block scheduling is pretty standard for hospitalists, with 2-4 weeks paid vacation per year and salaries of 180-220k on the low end DOE. Unless there are massive negative changes in reimbursement (reimbursement for hospitalist services is actually increasing rather than decreasing), hospitalists will likely have similar (or even slightly higher) salaries for the forseeable future.

Hmm, good to know. I thought 20 weeks/yr-200k was a bit high but after doing some reading, I see that it is attainable. Has there been a recent rise in avg. salary for hospitalists?

 

[Mad Jack]

Hmm, good to know. I thought 20 weeks/yr-200k was a bit high but after doing some reading, I see that it is attainable. Has there been a recent rise in avg. salary for hospitalists?

It's gone up substantially over the last ten years. Hospitalists weren't that big of a thing until recently, and as hospitals have seen the value in the services they provide, demand has skyrocketed, and salaries along with it.

 

[SCDP]

I guess dentistry is definitely the best field for me to go in as I love the business aspect of it and the fact that I can open my own practice and have the possibility of working 3-4 days a week and still pulling in around 200k. The only drawback for me is that I'm always thinking what if that doesn't happen, what if I work as an associate somewhere for a couple of years making solid money and then start my practice but what if my practice doesn't work out? I guess there is more risk/reward in dentistry vs some fields of medicine where the salaries are more so high but fixed while dentistry could be really high but also sorta low(but I guess even a minimum of 125k as a dentist is damn good).

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I guess dentistry is definitely the best field for me to go in as I love the business aspect of it and the fact that I can open my own practice and have the possibility of working 3-4 days a week and still pulling in around 200k. The only drawback for me is that I'm always thinking what if that doesn't happen, what if I work as an associate somewhere for a couple of years making solid money and then start my practice but what if my practice doesn't work out? I guess there is more risk/reward in dentistry vs some fields of medicine where the salaries are more so high but fixed while dentistry could be really high but also sorta low(but I guess even a minimum of 125k as a dentist is damn good).

125k IS a sweet salary........ if you don't have 400k in dental school loans that is. Seems to me like dentistry is only lucrative if you go into private practice.

 

[Screwtape]

125k IS a sweet salary........ if you don't have 400k in dental school loans that is. Seems to me like dentistry is only lucrative if you go into private practice.

400k is not typical for most dental schools right now. Just the expensive privates that everyone loves talking about around here.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

depends on what kind of lifestyle you want, to be honest. if you can go to the cheapest dental school possible without having to take out mortgage sized loans or have some other way of going to dental school with minimal/no loans, then to me, dental school>medical school.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

400k is not typical for most dental schools right now. Just the expensive privates that everyone loves talking about around here.

Okay, my bad. I should have said 300k.......my In-State school has an expenses budget estimation for the 4 years and they quoted $290,000. But still, it's just as much as Medical School, and it wouldn't make sense to take on a loan of that size unless you were making 200k.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

depends on what kind of lifestyle you want, to be honest. if you can go to the cheapest dental school possible without having to take out mortgage sized loans or have some other way of going to dental school with minimal/no loans, then to me, dental school>medical school.

This is why I want to go to school in Texas haha! I highly doubt I'll be competitive enough being an OOS applicant though!

 

[Screwtape]

Okay, my bad. I should have said 300k.......my In-State school has an expenses budget estimation for the 4 years and they quoted $290,000. But still, it's just as much as Medical School, and it wouldn't make sense to take on a loan of that size unless you were making 200k.

Seems like you are focusing on the money too much. In either dent/med you will be able to pay off your loans and will be relatively well-off. Unless you are an idiot with your money, then no amount of money will be enough. If medicine is your calling, follow it. Same with dentistry.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

hopefully saturation won't affect the dental profession too much

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

hopefully saturation won't affect the dental profession too much

As a dental student, do you think this will be a problem in the future? What about corporate dentistry; do you think that dentistry will move the same direction as Optometry? I just checked and in Houston alone, there are 36 'Bright Now' dental clinics.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Seems like you are focusing on the money too much. In either dent/med you will be able to pay off your loans and will be relatively well-off. Unless you are an idiot with your money, then no amount of money will be enough. If medicine is your calling, follow it. Same with dentistry.

Who wouldn't want the greatest return on their investment? As long as I'm making 200k, I don't really care about salary. I will base my decision off of which job I could wake up to everyday and look forward to.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I'm in a unique situation. I'll save you all the trouble and get straight to it. For myself, med would cost me 200k (total, for 4 yrs) and dental school would cost me 400k (total, for 4 yrs). I would enjoy both quite well. I have shadowed both and done research for both, etc. Would dentistry still be worth if it (if I decide to pursue it) over medicine? (Based on my situation)

*Over-ambitious sophomore here, so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt......like the biggest you can find* Anyways, look at it this way, if you go Medical, you'll probably make more money(with the expense of delayed gratification), however, you will have to do a residency and will also probably end up working more hours.

Conversely, what if you spent 400k on dental tuition like you said and got a job as an associate paying 150k? You could likely work less hours, but it would take you awhile to pay off your loans. Or, if you wanted to be more lucrative, I guess you could buy or build up a practice, but then there goes another 400k of loans. For me personally, I will only be going dental if I get into a super cheap school because I know I could find something I love in Medicine too!