Medical expert rates

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

For those doing this kind of work, what rates are you charging?

I recently increased my rates to 400/800/1000 per hour for chart review / deposition / trial and had an attorney accept without question.

I am wondering what the maximum they will accept is based on your experience.

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[kumatie]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

Lol what a hot take, space cadet.

I run interference on plaintiffs cases and reject 99%.

Btw, I've been sued. Twice.

Get lost.

 

[RustedFox]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

Pipe down, kid.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

You could be an expert witness on the defendant side. Or you could be the good guy who is not throwing their colleague under the bus.

 

[Birdstrike]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

Seems like a low blow, without at least first asking if they do exclusively defense work or not.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

I agree this is embarrassing, but not for @GonnaBeADoc2222

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I've done medical counsling for 550 an hour basically telling an attorney they didnt' have much of a case for an alcoholic family to sue the other person's insurance when he died of alcohol withdrawl in a hospital from an accident with no injuries

 

[Siggy]

Take this ****ing down. This is embarrassing. How much to charge to screw over other docs is what you should be asking. I hope you get sued and someone makes money of your suffering and turmoil.

You do know that the defense hires expert witnesses too?

You do know that expert medical witnesses are used in non-malpractice cases such as personal injury lawsuits?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

You do know that the defense hires expert witnesses too?

You do know that expert medical witnesses are used in non-malpractice cases such as personal injury lawsuits?

He / she should also know that real negligence exists.

A family of 3 kids of a patient a with HR 115 and SpO2 90 who is DC to home to die of massive PE is due recompense.

It's rare, but it happens.

People wanna whine about the dilution of our specialty with PLPs and crappy residencies, but then turn a blind eye to reckless practice.

 

[RustedFox]

He / she should also know that real negligence exists.

A family of 3 kids of a patient a with HR 115 and SpO2 90 who is DC to home to die of massive PE is due recompense.

It's rare, but it happens.

People wanna whine about the dilution of our specialty with PLPs and crappy residencies, but then turn a blind eye to reckless practice.

This.
Some of the docs I work with...

Holy smoke, they're BAD.

 

[Siggy]

He / she should also know that real negligence exists.

A family of 3 kids of a patient a with HR 115 and SpO2 90 who is DC to home to die of massive PE is due recompense.

It's rare, but it happens.

People wanna whine about the dilution of our specialty with PLPs and crappy residencies, but then turn a blind eye to reckless practice.

That's true also, however to give the benefit of any doubt, we don't know whether the OP is talking about med mal or personal injury AND we don't know if he's talking about plaintiff or defense work.

 

[NYEMMED]

For those doing this kind of work, what rates are you charging?

I recently increased my rates to 400/800/1000 per hour for chart review / deposition / trial and had an attorney accept without question.

I am wondering what the maximum they will accept is based on your experience.

I think you are about on target except for your trial rates, that’s a bit low.

Retainer of $2000

$400/Hour for review of chart
$500/Hour for local deposition (1/2 day minimum)
$2500/hour for trial testimony for half day, $5000/hour for full day
(First day of trial is at full day rate)
All travel expenses, lodging, food reimbursed

I see many cases 99% I mark as having no merit. Still take my $2,000 retainer for telling them no.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I think you are about on target except for your trial rates, that’s a bit low.

Retainer of $2000

$400/Hour for review of chart
$500/Hour for local deposition (1/2 day minimum)
$2500/hour for trial testimony for half day, $5000/hour for full day
(First day of trial is at full day rate)
All travel expenses, lodging, food reimbursed

I see many cases 99% I mark as having no merit. Still take my $2,000 retainer for telling them no.

To clarify, even if you just do 2 hrs for the initial review and say "no", you're charging 2k?

 

[southerndoc]

There are ER docs who get $40,000 per day for in-court testimony with a two-day minimum.

You're way undercharging.

 

[Interpolfanclub]

There are ER docs who get $40,000 per day for in-court testimony with a two-day minimum.

You're way undercharging.

How does one get into this line of work? Asking for a friend. Seems easier than actually seeing patients...

 

[southerndoc]

How does one get into this line of work? Asking for a friend. Seems easier than actually seeing patients...

You must first meet the devil, and then shake his hand.

Just kidding. I actually got involved with it after I was sued. Seriously. I've done defense work and medical board peer review.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

How does one get into this line of work? Asking for a friend. Seems easier than actually seeing patients...

I wrote a book chapter and was contacted by a defense attorney regarding a case involving that subject matter. Not sure if I got put on some list somewhere or just word of mouth but now firms just randomly contact me and ask if I’d like to review a case (the answer is always yes).

 

[xaelia]

How does one get into this line of work? Asking for a friend. Seems easier than actually seeing patients...

Seems like the work usually finds you, rather than the other way around.

Like other posters above, I first got contacted because of publications I had in the field.

That led to other cases within the same firm. And so on. Lawyers in the same arena refer each other useful experts.

Have done about 80% defense, 20% plaintiffs. Not nearly enough to fund a change in lifestyle, more like just don't feel bad about buying nice bottles of whiskey for a few months. My rates are roughly as above – about $500/hr base for chart review, escalating from there for deposition and trial time.

Back to the "take this f***ing down" post, yeah, even the plaintiff work isn't just suing docs. My last two cases have been suing the companies staffing prisons. There are legitimate corporate and institutional bad actors to take on.

I've also done work for the state medical board, and, here in New Zealand, I'm part of of the Health Practitioner's Disciplinary Tribunal. Neither of those pay nearly as well as the legal casework, but it can be a fun and useful service to perform. Medical board work can be a nice way to defend your fellow ED docs against (relatively) baseless complaints, as well.

 

[NYEMMED]

To clarify, even if you just do 2 hrs for the initial review and say "no", you're charging 2k?

Yes, $2,000 non refundable retainer to just get/review the chart, then I charge $400/ hour if I review the chart for greater than 5 hours.

If the chart has no merit and I write a letter to the lawyer indicating the care met the standard of care… then I keep the non-refundable 2k retainer even if it wasn’t 5 hours of work

 

[xaelia]

Yes, $2,000 non refundable retainer to just get/review the chart, then I charge $400/ hour if I review the chart for greater than 5 hours.

If the chart has no merit and I write a letter to the lawyer indicating the care met the standard of care… then I keep the non-refundable 2k retainer even if it wasn’t 5 hours of work

Same here. Standard practice.

 

[Tenk]

You must first meet the devil, and then shake his hand.

Just kidding. I actually got involved with it after I was sued. Seriously. I've done defense work and medical board peer review.

Shake his hand? I’ll suck his D for $40,000/day.

 

[Apollyon]

There are ER docs who get $40,000 per day for in-court testimony with a two-day minimum.

You're way undercharging.

"ER docs", who may or may not look a LOT like you!!

 

[Birdstrike]

Once, I was falsely accused of malpractice. I won the case. The attorney who defended me, later asked me to consult as an expert witness in the case of another physician she was defending. I have done 3 cases in that manner, all as defense, all as favors to ethical attorney's who asked for my opinion. In none of those cases, did I "do it for the money."

I think it's a mistake, to make "expert witness consulting" a career in and of itself. It's a tangled web of dark temptations. Ask yourself, what are you an expert in? Are you an expert in a craft? Or an expert on being an expert?

 

[Rendar5]

Flat $600/hr 4hour retainer with automatic 10hours reserved for anything requiring travel including trials. I also do some other medicolegal work for my primary employer that pays closer to clinical hours. So far it’s mostly defense cases, but my work for the CMG is pretty neutral: I tell the defense how solid or BS a case is being pursued. Most are fine on the ED doc end. Some are complete Bs in naming a doc who was just overseeing a midlevel.
A lot are very gray. And a couple are just poor care or dismissive care. Even the latter are not always true malpractice (if someone was going to die no matter what or have a stroke no matter what then there is no causation imo. Of course then it’s still the lawyers job to convince the jury

 

[emergentmd]

You guys are doing great. I need to start rubbing elbows with some of these lawyers

 

[nvrsumr]

I know a practicing er doc who is also a very successful pi attorney.

 

[Kryptocoin]

Financial crimes is where the big money is at, not medical malpractice. This guy made 900k for his expert testimony. Claimed he worked 650 hrs for an hourly of $1350/hr.

Trump judge slams credibility of paid expert in fraud case, suggests fee influenced testimony

The expert defense witness, NYU Professor Eli Bartov, told CNBC that his nearly $900,000 payment played no role in his assessment of Trump's financial records.

www.cnbc.com

 

[dozitgetchahi]

He / she should also know that real negligence exists.

A family of 3 kids of a patient a with HR 115 and SpO2 90 who is DC to home to die of massive PE is due recompense.

It's rare, but it happens.

People wanna whine about the dilution of our specialty with PLPs and crappy residencies, but then turn a blind eye to reckless practice.

Real negligence absolutely exists, and in my experience it is actually much more common than most doctors seem to think. Especially out in more rural areas where the docs are generally not members of the “A team”.

 

[RustedFox]

Real negligence absolutely exists, and in my experience it is actually much more common than most doctors seem to think. Especially out in more rural areas where the docs are generally not members of the “A team”.

Rural areas?
Eff.
All I gotta do is read the charts from some of the other docs in my group.

 

[Apollyon]

Real negligence absolutely exists, and in my experience it is actually much more common than most doctors seem to think. Especially out in more rural areas where the docs are generally not members of the “A team”.

At my last job, which was rural, there was another doc I called "the walking lawsuit". Here's an example: 80 year old guy with substernal pain. No ekg, no labs, the doc calls it "GERD", and, how does he treat it? GI cocktail, Protonix, Pepcid? How about 60mg Toradol IM. Best thing GERD needs is an NSAID. Not surprisingly, dude comes back two days later, and admitted for exercise induced angina.

 

[xaelia]

Rural areas?
Eff.
All I gotta do is read the charts from some of the other docs in my group.

... which is a nice reminder, in theory, that our colleagues set the "standard of care", not what someone would judge to be the "ideal" care.

Every sparse chart you read thinking "what the F, how did they miss that? what are they thinking?" is replicated a hundredfold across all practice settings. The "standard" is not perfect care, it's the 10th-90th percentile care delivered every day.

The diagnostic errors abomination put out by the AHRQ (with forced revision) is crap, but it's valuable in one respect – it puts out there how often docs make mistakes under everyday circumstances, and that making mistakes in the ED is a regrettable, but defensible, reality.

 

[ProReduction]

The system is broken beyond repair. Legit med mal reform in the United States could save the U.S. health system 500 billion dollars per year. Less unnecessary tests ordered. Less CYA consults called. Less soft admissions. We all know this.

I have turned down every single opportunity to be an "expert" witness when solicited to do so by both defendant and plaintiff attorneys. Why? Although I acknowledge that bad care runs rampant in the U.S. and there are legit cases to be settled, I know that the one certainty from the entire process is that all of the lawyers will get paid and any participation from me just continues to feed the beast. Why is there no med mal reform? Defendant and plaintiff attorneys get paid, and last I checked lawyers fill state and federal legislatures.

I had the chance to review the expert witness disclosures one time for a stroke case. There were two "expert" plaintiff witnesses set to testify against the Stroke Neurologist. One was a community Neurologist with fellowship training in Epilepsy . . . nowhere close to an expert. The other plaintiff "expert" in the stroke case was a Hospitalist. Yes. A Hospitalist with zero training in EM, Neurology, Neuroradiology, Neurointervention, or any other field with Stroke expertise.

When I looked at their disclosures, both "experts" had served in > 50 cases each, always for Plaintiffs, and billed themselves as "Plaintiff advocates". Each showed billings of around 30k for the case. If that is their average, it means that each of these physicians had earned 1.5 million simply from this racket.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The system is broken beyond repair. Legit med mal reform in the United States could save the U.S. health system 500 billion dollars per year. Less unnecessary tests ordered. Less CYA consults called. Less soft admissions. We all know this.

I have turned down every single opportunity to be an "expert" witness when solicited to do so by both defendant and plaintiff attorneys. Why? Although I acknowledge that bad care runs rampant in the U.S. and there are legit cases to be settled, I know that the one certainty from the entire process is that all of the lawyers will get paid and any participation from me just continues to feed the beast. Why is there no med mal reform? Defendant and plaintiff attorneys get paid, and last I checked lawyers fill state and federal legislatures.

I had the chance to review the expert witness disclosures one time for a stroke case. There were two "expert" plaintiff witnesses set to testify against the Stroke Neurologist. One was a community Neurologist with fellowship training in Epilepsy . . . nowhere close to an expert. The other plaintiff "expert" in the stroke case was a Hospitalist. Yes. A Hospitalist with zero training in EM, Neurology, Neuroradiology, Neurointervention, or any other field with Stroke expertise.

When I looked at their disclosures, both "experts" had served in > 50 cases each, always for Plaintiffs, and billed themselves as "Plaintiff advocates". Each showed billings of around 30k for the case. If that is their average, it means that each of these physicians had earned 1.5 million simply from this racket.

I agree with this too.

The court systems in America across the board have become their own racket, and the lawyers know exactly how to milk it to their advantage. The “expert witness” thing is a joke, because there are actually no standards in place whatsoever to determine if someone is actually an expert in the matter. Each side can literally put forth anyone they want off the street as an “expert witness”; the only thing the opposition can do is try to poke holes in their training etc.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I agree with this too.

The court systems in America across the board have become their own racket, and the lawyers know exactly how to milk it to their advantage. The “expert witness” thing is a joke, because there are actually no standards in place whatsoever to determine if someone is actually an expert in the matter. Each side can literally put forth anyone they want off the street as an “expert witness”; the only thing the opposition can do is try to poke holes in their training etc.

Hey guess what? You're not gonna change anything.

I did a residency in emergency medicine and am ABEM boarded. I think that makes me an expert in Emergency Medicine.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Hey guess what? You're not gonna change anything.

I did a residency in emergency medicine and am ABEM boarded. I think that makes me an expert in Emergency Medicine.

Thanks for the pointless sarcasm. You misunderstood me.

I’m talking about situations where people who have no relevant credentials whatsoever are brought in as “experts”. I’m talking about what was cited above - internists being brought in to serve as “expert witnesses” in surgery suits, etc.

Ever done a peer to peer with some doctor at the insurance company who isn’t trained in your specialty and has no idea wtf they’re talking about and what the treatments are used for etc? Now imagine this same person testifying against you in a court case as an “expert witness”. It happens in courts across this country every day.

(And yes, the fact that I’m “not gonna change anything” is exactly why I don’t participate in that corrupt system. I don’t like supporting rackets.)

 

[sloh]

The system is broken beyond repair. Legit med mal reform in the United States could save the U.S. health system 500 billion dollars per year. Less unnecessary tests ordered. Less CYA consults called. Less soft admissions. We all know this.

I have turned down every single opportunity to be an "expert" witness when solicited to do so by both defendant and plaintiff attorneys. Why? Although I acknowledge that bad care runs rampant in the U.S. and there are legit cases to be settled, I know that the one certainty from the entire process is that all of the lawyers will get paid and any participation from me just continues to feed the beast. Why is there no med mal reform? Defendant and plaintiff attorneys get paid, and last I checked lawyers fill state and federal legislatures.

I had the chance to review the expert witness disclosures one time for a stroke case. There were two "expert" plaintiff witnesses set to testify against the Stroke Neurologist. One was a community Neurologist with fellowship training in Epilepsy . . . nowhere close to an expert. The other plaintiff "expert" in the stroke case was a Hospitalist. Yes. A Hospitalist with zero training in EM, Neurology, Neuroradiology, Neurointervention, or any other field with Stroke expertise.

When I looked at their disclosures, both "experts" had served in > 50 cases each, always for Plaintiffs, and billed themselves as "Plaintiff advocates". Each showed billings of around 30k for the case. If that is their average, it means that each of these physicians had earned 1.5 million simply from this racket.

To play devil's advocate, if the system is beyond repair perhaps having someone like you as an expert witness can at least improve the pool of expert witnesses

 

[TooMuchResearch]

The system is broken beyond repair. Legit med mal reform in the United States could save the U.S. health system 500 billion dollars per year. Less unnecessary tests ordered. Less CYA consults called. Less soft admissions. We all know this.

I have turned down every single opportunity to be an "expert" witness when solicited to do so by both defendant and plaintiff attorneys. Why? Although I acknowledge that bad care runs rampant in the U.S. and there are legit cases to be settled, I know that the one certainty from the entire process is that all of the lawyers will get paid and any participation from me just continues to feed the beast. Why is there no med mal reform? Defendant and plaintiff attorneys get paid, and last I checked lawyers fill state and federal legislatures.

I had the chance to review the expert witness disclosures one time for a stroke case. There were two "expert" plaintiff witnesses set to testify against the Stroke Neurologist. One was a community Neurologist with fellowship training in Epilepsy . . . nowhere close to an expert. The other plaintiff "expert" in the stroke case was a Hospitalist. Yes. A Hospitalist with zero training in EM, Neurology, Neuroradiology, Neurointervention, or any other field with Stroke expertise.

When I looked at their disclosures, both "experts" had served in > 50 cases each, always for Plaintiffs, and billed themselves as "Plaintiff advocates". Each showed billings of around 30k for the case. If that is their average, it means that each of these physicians had earned 1.5 million simply from this racket.

@ Lawyers: Sign me up for this racket. I am expert level beyond your wildest imagination.

 

[Backpack234]

He / she should also know that real negligence exists.

A family of 3 kids of a patient a with HR 115 and SpO2 90 who is DC to home to die of massive PE is due recompense.

It's rare, but it happens.

People wanna whine about the dilution of our specialty with PLPs and crappy residencies, but then turn a blind eye to reckless practice.

Tell this to my hospitalists. "I'm not admitting this. 90% isn't hypoxia. it has to be at least 88% or lower. Tachycardia is just because they're anxious. Send the patient home. And no, I'm not coming down to see the patient"

 

[emergentmd]

Tell this to my hospitalists. "I'm not admitting this. 90% isn't hypoxia. it has to be at least 88% or lower. Tachycardia is just because they're anxious. Send the patient home. And no, I'm not coming down to see the patient"

This is when I tell the hospitalist that you are consulted and you can discharge the pt from the ER after evaluation. Also know that my chart reflects that said hospitalists was consulted and I recommended admission with care transferred to said hospitalist.

Typically just telling the hospitalist to come and see the pt in the ER changes their mind real quick.

 

[Backpack234]

This is when I tell the hospitalist that you are consulted and you can discharge the pt from the ER after evaluation. Also know that my chart reflects that said hospitalists was consulted and I recommended admission with care transferred to said hospitalist.

Typically just telling the hospitalist to come and see the pt in the ER changes their mind real quick.

Not this exact case, but I've done this. The response was "I'm not seeing this patient. I'm too busy." then when I said I would admit to a different hosptialist service if they refused, they refused then complained to my director.

I also don't have the power to admit at this hospital. Technically for a patient to be admitted the accepting physician has to place admission orders.

This type of thing happens ALL the time at my shop

 

[emergentmd]

Then this is a dysfunction that needs to be fixed. If you are a hospitalist that is consulted, they need to see the pt. If they are busy, pt will be sitting in the ER. Regardless, you can't refuse a consult b/c they are too busy when that is their job. It if your medical director's job to tell them that their job is to consult. If they think the consult if FOS, then they can come write a note and discharge the pt.

If you work in a hospital whose culture is allowing docs on call to not consult on a reasonable pt, then its a hospital I would not want to work at.

There are alot of hospital issues that I can handle, but what I could not is hospitalists/specialists not consulting when it is appropriate.

If you have someone that clearly requires admission, hospitalists tells you they wont bc/ they are busy, and admin/your MD don't make changes then I am looking for a new job. I will never morally or medicolegally work in this environment.

 

[Backpack234]

Then this is a dysfunction that needs to be fixed. If you are a hospitalist that is consulted, they need to see the pt. If they are busy, pt will be sitting in the ER. Regardless, you can't refuse a consult b/c they are too busy when that is their job. It if your medical director's job to tell them that their job is to consult. If they think the consult if FOS, then they can come write a note and discharge the pt.

If you work in a hospital whose culture is allowing docs on call to not consult on a reasonable pt, then its a hospital I would not want to work at.

There are alot of hospital issues that I can handle, but what I could not is hospitalists/specialists not consulting when it is appropriate.

If you have someone that clearly requires admission, hospitalists tells you they wont bc/ they are busy, and admin/your MD don't make changes then I am looking for a new job. I will never morally or medicolegally work in this environment.

I don't disagree with this. But otherwise this seems to be one of the better jobs in the area. Bigger question is does this violate EMTALA? And should that be reported? and how do you report that?