medical genetics/careers in medicine

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ABSOLUTsher07

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I was looking up careers in medicine, and came across the topic of medical genetics and genetics counseling. Does anyone know if it is possible to pursue this as a medical school graduate, or must you be enrolled in a master's program? Besides the typical specialties (family medicine, neuroloy, etc), what are some unusual career paths that an MD can choose?

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You wont want to be a genetics counselor after medical school. You may want to work with a focus in genetics in which case, pediatrics is the traditional path. You can also work with a focus in adult medical genetics. If so, there are fellowships that adress these interests. As of yet, medical genetics for adults is still relatively backwater. Not much interest and not much activity. There just isnt much in the way of diagnostics going on, and certainly next to nothing in the area of genetically based therapeutics. If your in research then it may make sense.

The next great breakthrough is touted to be the implementation of whole-genome marker screens designed to taylor pharmaceuticals to genetic background. But this will take some time, so dont loose any sleep over it.

🙂

For unusual, try trans-gender surgery or psychiatry.... seems pretty out there to me.
 
I am a genetic counselor and I love it! Genetics is such a growing field with opportunities in many specialties. That being said, I am going to med school in August.

You definitely can't/shouldn't do a double degree with MD/MS in gen counseling at the same time. There are very few programs that offer genetic counseling (about 25 in the US) and it is a full 2 year program with summer rotations and rotations during the second year, and usually a thesis. To be a board-certified GC, you have to collect a logbook of over 50 cases in different specialty areas during your training, and you pass a certification exam which you are only eligible for 1-2 years after you graduate. Cert. exams are only offered in August every 2 years. (So, for example, people who graduated this May cannot take the Board exam until August of 2009, even though it is offered this May.)

The board exam is 1/2 general, and 1/2 counseling specific. The 1/2 general is the same exam taken by MD clinical geneticists, genetic counselors, PhD cytogeneticists.

Sooooo, long way of saying: if you want to pursue genetics, do residency in peds/OB/internal med/oncology, and then do a 2 year fellowship in Medical Genetics, then take the exact same 1/2 of a board exam and then the 1/2 medical.

The people I know who have also done MS in genetic counseling and MD all did genetic counseling first and then changed their minds and went into med school.

(But YAH! for someone else interested in genetics here!)
 
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All the genetic physicians who lectured us first year were also either OB/GYN or PEDS. Makes sense, considering you need to council the family on future risk or care of child. So if you are interested in OB/GYN or PEDS, and want to subspecialize, it's a great field. Me, not so much.
 
Technically, medical genetics is genetic counseling. A clinical geneticist is what an MD is called and works in a medical genetics department. A person does not pursue both avenues. Why is this? The training an MD gets is not the type of training a genetic counselor gets. Genetic counselors are trained in expertise for analyzing the biopsychosocial aspects of genetic conditions. A clinical geneticist is an expert in diagnosing a genetic disorder. Some of the role that a genetic counseling provides is information and support to a family member (or individual) who have a birth defect or genetic disorders, and to families who may be at risk for a variety of inherited conditions. With doing a family history (which is more complicated then people think) they will identify families at risk, investigate the problems present in the family, interpret information about a genetic disorder, analyze inheritance patterns and risks of recurrence and review available testing options with the family.

The field of genetic counseling is expanding. Genetic counselors are now making their way into are areas of cardiology, neurology, hematology, communication disorders, and among others.

Others have already stated what to do for a clinical genetics career path.

With genetic testing gaining a strong hold in medical care, we will be seeing more and more people offering genetic testing (drug companies are going to sell genetic tests soon) and interpreting the information (family history and test results) that are not trained to perform these very complex objectives. Many physicians will start offering genetic testing and telling a patient they have this type of cancer based on the genetic test (without the patient seeing a genetics expert..i.e, genetic counselor). This could result in errors for patients that need to be seen by experts to know if they need the testing done, what management should be given (non-directive of course), and what the risk of recurrence is and whether the disorder they have is actually a result of their genetic material. For example, how many non-trained genetic professionals will be able to tell when a couple with no previous family history of a genetic condition that has two children affected with the same genetic condition tell if the family history shows an autosomal recessive or autosmomal dominate with one of the parents being a germinal mosaic? Would the average physician even understand what the example means that I just gave?

So if patients are diagnosed with a genetic condition based on a genetic test and a family history was done, if the family history interpretation is incorrect, this will result in MAJOR ERRONEOUS RISK CALCULATIONS FOR FUTURE OFFSPRING. If insurance companies were able to use your genetic information and an error occurs in the example I provided, then a person could get denied health coverage, or taken off a certain policy because they are high risk when in fact they are at low risk.
 
Just a note--I was recently told by a medical genetics doc that there are a few residency programs developing that combine medical genetics with internal medicine or peds, which you can become double boarded in and complete in one year less than if you did med or peds plus the medical genetics fellowship. If you are interested in medical genetics, it would be a good idea to check out those programs.
 
For example, how many non-trained genetic professionals will be able to tell when a couple with no previous family history of a genetic condition that has two children affected with the same genetic condition tell if the family history shows an autosomal recessive or autosmomal dominate with one of the parents being a germinal mosaic? Would the average physician even understand what the example means that I just gave?

Anyone who went to medical school in recent years definitely should. Older physicians? Possibly not.

Edit: Further if there's not a family history and no one else in the family is available for genetic testing then no one will be able to tell much about exactly how the trait has moved through the family. So much for making a pedigree.
 
Technically, medical genetics is genetic counseling. A clinical geneticist is what an MD is called and works in a medical genetics department. A person does not pursue both avenues. Why is this? The training an MD gets is not the type of training a genetic counselor gets. Genetic counselors are trained in expertise for analyzing the biopsychosocial aspects of genetic conditions. A clinical geneticist is an expert in diagnosing a genetic disorder. Some of the role that a genetic counseling provides is information and support to a family member (or individual) who have a birth defect or genetic disorders, and to families who may be at risk for a variety of inherited conditions. With doing a family history (which is more complicated then people think) they will identify families at risk, investigate the problems present in the family, interpret information about a genetic disorder, analyze inheritance patterns and risks of recurrence and review available testing options with the family.

The field of genetic counseling is expanding. Genetic counselors are now making their way into are areas of cardiology, neurology, hematology, communication disorders, and among others.

Others have already stated what to do for a clinical genetics career path.

With genetic testing gaining a strong hold in medical care, we will be seeing more and more people offering genetic testing (drug companies are going to sell genetic tests soon) and interpreting the information (family history and test results) that are not trained to perform these very complex objectives. Many physicians will start offering genetic testing and telling a patient they have this type of cancer based on the genetic test (without the patient seeing a genetics expert..i.e, genetic counselor). This could result in errors for patients that need to be seen by experts to know if they need the testing done, what management should be given (non-directive of course), and what the risk of recurrence is and whether the disorder they have is actually a result of their genetic material. For example, how many non-trained genetic professionals will be able to tell when a couple with no previous family history of a genetic condition that has two children affected with the same genetic condition tell if the family history shows an autosomal recessive or autosmomal dominate with one of the parents being a germinal mosaic? Would the average physician even understand what the example means that I just gave?

So if patients are diagnosed with a genetic condition based on a genetic test and a family history was done, if the family history interpretation is incorrect, this will result in MAJOR ERRONEOUS RISK CALCULATIONS FOR FUTURE OFFSPRING. If insurance companies were able to use your genetic information and an error occurs in the example I provided, then a person could get denied health coverage, or taken off a certain policy because they are high risk when in fact they are at low risk.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw[/YOUTUBE]

Welcome back Genetics. :meanie:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those the guys that can't find jobs. Word on the street is that medical geneticists, pathologists, and Nuclear medicine folks have been frequenting the unemployment office lately.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those the guys that can't find jobs. Word on the street is that medical geneticists, pathologists, and Nuclear medicine folks have been frequenting the unemployment office lately.
I don't think pathologists should be lumped in there, and probably neither should nuc med. As for med genetics, I have no real idea but you certainly don't see much in the way of demand for them.
 
Nice link there Drop Kick,

Dutchman, unfortuneately there is some truth to your observation. I work closely with a clinical geneticist (and a genetics counselor) at an adult medical genetics clinic. It is the only such clinic in the state and is also a major regional draw as well. The clinic is not doing poorly, but is certainly not very busy with only one day of clinic sufficient for all referrals. The demand is very low and the clinic is challenged regularly to justify its existence. The tests available are not comprehensive. Gene panels only cover the most predominant subset of mutations that are known... much is missed. In fact, it is only the rare case (outside of Huntingtons) where a putative disease causing mutation is actually identified. The vast majority of panels are returned with inconclusive results. We may know what to call the disorder but most of the time we cannot pinpoint the cause.

These guys certainly have a place in healthcare but the niche remains nebulous. Things improve yearly though, with more known next year than this year. In time these guys will play a more instrumental role in diagnosis and treatment... just not quite there yet on a mass-consumption basis. As mentioned previously, inexpensive whole-genome marker screens will change things radically in the future for both diagnostics and pharmaceuticals.

I agree with Drop Kick that pathologists and Nuc Med most likely do not fall in the same class of credibility issues afflicting adult medical genetics.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those the guys that can't find jobs. Word on the street is that medical geneticists, pathologists, and Nuclear medicine folks have been frequenting the unemployment office lately.

As far as genetic counselors go, there are more jobs available then there are people to fill the open spots. I don't know what the job market is like for clinical geneticists. I also don't know about pathologist nor NM techs. They are not the same type of medical care anyways.
 
Nice link there Drop Kick,

Dutchman, unfortuneately there is some truth to your observation. I work closely with a clinical geneticist (and a genetics counselor) at an adult medical genetics clinic. It is the only such clinic in the state and is also a major regional draw as well. The clinic is not doing poorly, but is certainly not very busy with only one day of clinic sufficient for all referrals. The demand is very low and the clinic is challenged regularly to justify its existence. The tests available are not comprehensive. Gene panels only cover the most predominant subset of mutations that are known... much is missed. In fact, it is only the rare case (outside of Huntingtons) where a putative disease causing mutation is actually identified. The vast majority of panels are returned with inconclusive results. We may know what to call the disorder but most of the time we cannot pinpoint the cause.

These guys certainly have a place in healthcare but the niche remains nebulous. Things improve yearly though, with more known next year than this year. In time these guys will play a more instrumental role in diagnosis and treatment... just not quite there yet on a mass-consumption basis. As mentioned previously, inexpensive whole-genome marker screens will change things radically in the future for both diagnostics and pharmaceuticals.

I agree with Drop Kick that pathologists and Nuc Med most likely do not fall in the same class of credibility issues afflicting adult medical genetics.

What type of clinic do you work for? You are correct about the struggles for finding the cause of a disorder. This is why there needs to be more research done this area. However, you also need to keep in mind that the human genome sequence was published in 2003. It is now 2007 and look at all of the powerful genetic tests that are now available. We have gotten so far to where we can test a person’s susceptibility for diabetes. That is tremendous progress in only 3 ½ years and the field of medical genetics is advancing at a rapid pace. Every day there is a new article published in the literature showing a genetic link for causing some cases of a disorder and new genetic tests are being published every week.
The field of medical genetics has a good reason to be a part of medical care, but to expect the medical genetics department to see as many patients as heart floor or a peds department would be horrendous. This would lead to terrible counseling and many misdiagnoses. The average medical genetics appointment last ONE HOUR long. You also have to take into account which type of specialty you are discussing when it comes to patient load in the field of medical genetics. Some departments (i.e., prenatal care) get about 12 new patients a week (some departments range from 5 – 12 new patients a week). That is still a high number. You don’t want to be forced to take on 30 new patients a week. That would not allow enough time to do a thorough job that the patient needs and you also need to take into account the time it takes to order a test, speak with insurance companies, do follow up cases, and other responsibilities.
The most important thing for a successful medical genetics department is accurate diagnosis among the clinical geneticists and other physicians in the same institution.
The physical exam that is done by clinical geneticists is much more advanced than the normal physical exam that is done in other medical departments.
 
The physical exam that is done by clinical geneticists is much more advanced than the normal physical exam that is done in other medical departments.

Prove it troll. :laugh: *waits patiently while Genetics attempts to pull a non-existent article supporting his contention out of the dark and cluttered recesses of his distal colon*

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Hmmm the replies to this thread are very interesting...and somewhat discouraging. Keeping my options open!
 
You know, there are some people interested in medical genetics that are not the often reincarnated Genetics. That former member of SDN went and ruined an opportunity for the rest of us to have a Genetics forum by frequent trolling. Hmph.

OP, to return to your post, what aspect of clinical genetics to you find appealing?
 
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