Medical Genetics - Competitive?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Exalya

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
447
Reaction score
0
I've been researching different specialties, but the specialty I can find the least about is the one I am most interested in. Does anyone know the relative competitiveness of medical genetics? I know that it requires either a 4-year residency or 2 years of something like IM and then an additional two years... but that's about all I know.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I've been researching different specialties, but the specialty I can find the least about is the one I am most interested in. Does anyone know the relative competitiveness of medical genetics? I know that it requires either a 4-year residency or 2 years of something like IM and then an additional two years... but that's about all I know.

prob not that competitive, since it definitely doesnt pay as well
 
You probably found this already, but if not, it looks like it has a decent amount of information:

http://www.abmg.org/
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Well, I like that medical geneticists have more to do with research than your average internist. I'm 100% cool with the slightly lower pay.
 
I'm definitely interested in medical genetics as well. Why do you guys act like the pay is so abysmal? I have no idea how much it would be but I can't see it being THAT bad. What's a specialty you'd compare it to in terms of salary?
 
I read on one of the websites that the going rate is about 150k. To me, that's great money... but then I have "low" standards, compared to many people I've met on SDN.
 
I'm definitely interested in medical genetics as well. Why do you guys act like the pay is so abysmal? I have no idea how much it would be but I can't see it being THAT bad. What's a specialty you'd compare it to in terms of salary?

It's one of the lowest paying fields, if not the lowest. Think low 100k's.
 
The pay is around $100k-$150k. The pay issue isn\'t what I was getting at, however. The genetic counselor will spend about 30 minutes or more with the patient given numbers, drawing the family tree, etc, and the med gen doctor will spend about 10 minutes with the patient. Med gen is more of a research area than clinical medicine. I know a med gene doctor very well....that is why I know this stuff. Once in a while you will see a patient in the hospital, but not often. Diagnosis of a medical condition that are genetic are usually made by other doctors first. Sure the med gene doctor will have cases sent to him that will reqauire him/her to make a diagnosis, but not that often. They usually get a patient sent over to have any genetic testing done, research studies, etc. I was saying you would be better of going the internal med route (unless any of you want to do research...which is fine) as you get to do more of the clinical medicine aspects of conditions that have a genetic basis for disease onset. As a med gene doctor, you will manage the patient care, but not do the actuall treatment. The field is young and will continue to expand/grow as the years go on.

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of the field. I've never met a medical geneticist, so any information is helpful. My initial interest in medicine was pathology, so I'm not necessarily looking for a bunch of patient interaction (could go either way on that). Anyway, good stuff to think about.
 
When gene therapy becomes a viable and more commonplace treatment, do you think Medical Geneticists will administer it? What does the future look like for the medical geneticist position in terms of responsibilities, pay, etc. Will it become more competitive and better compensated as new treatments are developed and demand is increased? Are medical geneticists today simply "before their time"?
 
I am a medical geneticist.

My understanding, to become board eligible for med. gen. currently you have to do 1 of three tracks:
1) complete a "clinical residency" such as pediatrics, IM, family med, neuro, psych, etc. AFter completion you apply for a "second residency" in medical genetics. This is a 2 year program minimum. Some are arranged as 3 years I think but this isn't common. AFter that there are options to do additional training ( a year each) to sit for the subspecialty boards of cytogenetics, molecular genetics, or biochemical genetics. These traditionally have been for people who are interested in becoming lab directors. In medical genetics residency you technically function as a fellow but its called a residency, as I understand it, due to GME issues and certification. You do not have to sit for your clinical residency boards to take the genetics boards, as it is credentialed as its own boarded specialty. However, some places that hire you may want this (many don't care). This is the way I did it.
2) You could enter into a combined genetics program, such as peds/gen, OB/gen, IM/gen. These are becoming more common and these residents do both concurrently. I think programs get to decide how to arrange the scheduling but often you flip back and forth between one and the other. I personally don't see the point to this unless you know for 100% certainty that you want to go to the same program for your clinical residency and genetics residency. It narrows down your options and what you think you might want just out of medical school may not be want you want later. Most medical students have no idea about what medical genetics training programs are good and how they are different, so I would recommend personally for option #1. It also allows you to really learn your primary field and then dive into med. gen. full force because intellectually it is a demanding specialty given you see so many rare things that few other doctors have much familiarity with.
3) I believe there is still an option to enter straight into a med genetic residency right out of medical school, but few training programs have this option. I think in such circumstances it is a 4 year program but what I have heard is you do the first 2 years kind of functioning as a general intern in clinical settings and then you transition to genetics. I don't know of anyone who has done this and I have heard its not recommended.

There has been discussion about getting a "fast-track" option for mini-fellowships in genetics for phsycians in internal medicine, etc. who want to focus on just adult genetics or cancer genetics or something like that.

A few training programs have a medical genetics training option for PhDs. Most of these doctors end up doing research in labs or running cytogenetic or molecular diagnostic centers. It is different from doing a regular genetic PhD program because the focus is on human disorders and diseases with a goal toward medical care. A very few PhDs end up doing clinical work but there are fewer and fewer of those nowadays.

It is not that competitive because there are a decent number of training programs and not that many people want to go into the field at present. Once you are done, the main issue in finding a job is who is hiring because the departments/divisions are not big. You basically are looking at an academic center or university or a very, very large hospital with an academic bend. Typically a state may only have need of a handful of these doctors (more than 10 would be a lot of medical geneticists who are actively seeing patients for all but the largest states) so where you want to live may not be where jobs are available. You need to be flexible in that regard. Overall the lifestyle is good if you are into academics. Unless you are a metabolic geneticist, there are no reasons to ever have to get paged in the middle of the night. I never go to sleep next to my pager. You see cool things all day long that no one else has much familiarity with. You can play a very helpful role to patients and primary care docs in terms of education about these disorders. Some of us follow our patients for a lifetime and some patients look at us as the one doctor who truly understands their child's/their condition. That does give us a special kind of relationship that is often wanting in medicine today.
The pay typically isn't that great compared to what many medical students think a doctor "should make" but I should add that what you think is typical in medical school ends up not being always so in reality. I think 110-140K is a fair estimate in most settings but I am aware of higher and lower than this. However, this is not altogether out of line with many positions in academia to be quite honest. But keep in mind the lifestyle, never waking in the middle of the night, and fact that I see a fraction of patients that my primary care colleagues see in a day make it worth it to many. Though, my assessments are easily 1-2 hours long and sometimes more. There is often not the time pressure of most other specialties.

If you don't want to work for a university and agree to the academic life of publishing as part of your career, then this job probably isn't for you except in a few rare circumstances.

Some OB/GYNs who do genetics go into MFM and these are highly regarded positions in many centers.

Peds geneticists typically do assessment for syndromes, prenatal counseling, or assessment and management of metabolic disease (or all of the above)
Counseling/education of patients and families is a big part of our job. We work closely with genetic counselors (masters prepared position at a minimum) to do this.

Those in internal medicine often have an interest to do evaluations of adults with genetic syndromes or do things like cancer. There are relatively limited jobs available for people in this area to do this exclusively at all but the largest centers. Some IM doctors interested in common disease go into medical genetics and do epidemiologic research but have a limited clinical role because there isn't a lot we can do from a practical sense at this time to assess for the genetics of common disorders in the current routine clinical setting.

Some neurologists go on to do genetics and do "neurogenetics" which deal with neurologic disorders with a genetic basis. These physicians are usually very well regarded in childrens hospital settings because of their familiarity with many rare neurologic disorders. They often do a combination of regular neurology and genetic neurology.

I know of a few family medicine docs who went to do genetics though I am not sure how they have modeled their practice to be different from other clinical geneticists I know.

You will always have a role if you are a peds geneticist at a childrens hospital. These are much-needed and valued consultants and most childrens hospitals have at least 1.

I hope this helps. It is not an especially lucrative field but it is highly intellecutally stimulating and demanding and you see something new every day in clinic. By and large we are called to give an opinion when no one else can figure out what to do or when it is clear we have special experience on a subject. Very few geneticists actually function as the primary doctor for inpatient care and we are generally playing the role of consultant. Typically, our input is felt to be interesting and educational by our colleagues, if not helpful.

Oh, that's the other thing. Don't go into this field unless you feel very comfortable not knowing the answer or admitting you are wrong. In the best of circumstances, we may come to the correct diagnosis only 50% of the time and that even with working your butt off trying to come up with one. And you always have to consider the fact you might be wrong unless there is a way you can prove it, so you need to reconsider the diagnosis always....
 
When gene therapy becomes a viable and more commonplace treatment, do you think Medical Geneticists will administer it? What does the future look like for the medical geneticist position in terms of responsibilities, pay, etc. Will it become more competitive and better compensated as new treatments are developed and demand is increased? Are medical geneticists today simply "before their time"?

Medical geneticists have been around and played a valuable role for decades before gene therapy was even considered. It is purely speculative as to how future treatments will mold the field as training programs do not address these therapies as a key part of the training. However, medical geneticists are often the ones who are administering enzyme replacement therapies to disorders like lysosomal storage conditions so I would think we would try to play a role if these therapies became available.

The role of the geneticst at this point is mainly one of diagnostician though there are limited areas where therapeutics are emerging. No one knows how reimbursement may change. The current medical billing and reimbursement system is clearly not organized with medical genetics in mind.

Our society and system doesn't pay you to think as a doctor. It pays you to do things to people. In that way, physicians are treated much like auto mechanics.
 
Bump? I stumbled upon this thread and found it really insightful :3

So I had a few questions:
Do geneticists see babies born with birth defects?
What % of patients need surgery (I mean all around. Not just babies haha)??
 
Bump? I stumbled upon this thread and found it really insightful :3

So I had a few questions:
Do geneticists see babies born with birth defects?
What % of patients need surgery (I mean all around. Not just babies haha)??

Med student perspective here, but part of our genetics class last year discussed the field, so take my answers for what they are worth..

Yes, geneticists would definitely see patients with birth defects. There would be a lot more to what they do, but children with birth defects/metabolic disorders/etc. would be a big part.

Testing patients for known genetic abnormalities, such as for a family history of breast cancer, would also be a big part. Part of this is not just examining the family history for indications of a disorder that could be inherited, but also counseling the patient on whether they really want to be tested at this point in their life, what they would do with the information, what their options are if they are positive for the disorder in question, etc.

As far as what percentage need surgery, I don't know, but since the geneticist wouldn't be doing the surgery anyway.......
 
I read on one of the websites that the going rate is about 150k. To me, that's great money... but then I have "low" standards, compared to many people I've met on SDN.

standards shift as debts accrue and you get older, realizing that you need to immediately start balancing the massive debts with retirement savings and any expenses you have (family? house?)
 
One of my professors is a clinical geneticist and she claims that it isn't competitive at all and she has worked with all manner of patients.
 
Med student perspective here, but part of our genetics class last year discussed the field, so take my answers for what they are worth..

Yes, geneticists would definitely see patients with birth defects. There would be a lot more to what they do, but children with birth defects/metabolic disorders/etc. would be a big part.

Testing patients for known genetic abnormalities, such as for a family history of breast cancer, would also be a big part. Part of this is not just examining the family history for indications of a disorder that could be inherited, but also counseling the patient on whether they really want to be tested at this point in their life, what they would do with the information, what their options are if they are positive for the disorder in question, etc.

As far as what percentage need surgery, I don't know, but since the geneticist wouldn't be doing the surgery anyway.......

Thanks for the reply 🙂
The reason why I asked about the percent that go into surgery is because really interested in doing the peds/anes combined residency and the possible career paths.
One path was going from the combined residency to med gen and to also be a peds anesthesiologist so I would be able to follow the patient regardless of what they needed. Also, Im sure there would be a lot of research opportunities that could overlap.
Of course, this is all me being very ambitious so I'm asking questions to see if it would be at all plausible/correlated.
 
Bump: I am an MS4 intending to apply in medical genetics but due to health reasons will not be able to apply this year. I will be doing a a research master and research in genetics during my time off and participating in next year's match. Do you think I have decent odds?
 
Top