Medical Psych Salary

[MrQuack]

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So in a few states you can be a medical psychologist, hopefully more in the future.

What are their wages though? I would not expect their salary to be much higher than a private practice clinician without prescription privileges in a neighboring state since it's such a new field.

 

[edieb]

So in a few states you can be a medical psychologist, hopefully more in the future.

What are their wages though? I would not expect their salary to be much higher than a private practice clinician without prescription privileges in a neighboring state since it's such a new field.

I obtained my Clinical Ph.D. from LSU recently and a few of my friends are prescribing. Since insurance codes for medical psychologists and psychiatrists are the same (in regards to medication management), their salaries are equal to a psychatrist's salary.

The novelty of the field has zero to do with the amount you make...

As a caveat, I would not go into clinical psychology with the idea you will get licensed to prescribe. From my experience, by the time you jump through all the hurdles of dissertation, internship and licensure, you are SO exhausted. I have just been licensed for < 1 year and am now plowing through the psychopharm classes and the sheer force of will this takes is unbelievable. The courses are tough and passing the Proficiency Examiniation in Psychopharmacology (the APA test required to become a medical psychologist) is even harder

 

[MrQuack]

I obtained my Clinical Ph.D. from LSU recently and a few of my friends are prescribing. Since insurance codes for medical psychologists and psychiatrists are the same (in regards to medication management), their salaries are equal to a psychatrist's salary.

The novelty of the field has zero to do with the amount you make...

As a caveat, I would not go into clinical psychology with the idea you will get licensed to prescribe. From my experience, by the time you jump through all the hurdles of dissertation, internship and licensure, you are SO exhausted. I have just been licensed for < 1 year and am now plowing through the psychopharm classes and the sheer force of will this takes is unbelievable. The courses are tough and passing the Proficiency Examiniation in Psychopharmacology (the APA test required to become a medical psychologist) is even harder

Wow, I bet psychiatrists hate that.

I think in time what you are doing will be pretty typical for post-doc clinical psych students.

I understand you have to take the online courses for 2 years (maybe less if you push) and then complete some kind of internship. What is this internship about? Is this all the more difficult if you get your PhD in a non-prescribing state?

I am interested in medical psych because I think it is the future of clinical psych and therefore my responsibility to pursue it.

 

[edieb]

Wow, I bet psychiatrists hate that.

I think in time what you are doing will be pretty typical for post-doc clinical psych students.

I understand you have to take the online courses for 2 years (maybe less if you push) and then complete some kind of internship. What is this internship about? Is this all the more difficult if you get your PhD in a non-prescribing state?

I am interested in medical psych because I think it is the future of clinical psych and therefore my responsibility to pursue it.

NO. Classes are in person, NOT online. You cannot push and finish them earlier. They are taught by M.D.s and D.O.s You then have to pass the Proficiency Examination in Psychopharmacology (PEP). Here is the APA link to the knowledge domains

http://www.rxpsychology.com/pep_knowledge_domains.pdf

 

[MrQuack]

NO. Classes are in person, NOT online. You cannot push and finish them earlier. They are taught by M.D.s and D.O.s You then have to pass the Proficiency Examination in Psychopharmacology (PEP). Here is the APA link to the knowledge domains

http://www.rxpsychology.com/pep_knowledge_domains.pdf

Yeesh caps and red font. Someone in another forum said they were taking them online (not on SDN). I would not feel comfortable taking them online myself. How long do the classes take to complete and what are the costs associated with the classes?

It might be rough, but you have to do it. I'm excited about it.

 

[somedude14]

Wow, I bet psychiatrists hate that.


I am interested in medical psych because I think it is the future of clinical psych and therefore my responsibility to pursue it.

lol

 

[2012PhD]

I am interested in medical psych because I think it is the future of clinical psych and therefore my responsibility to pursue it.

After like 50 years of advocacy, we only have prescription privilliges (with extra training) in all of 2 states (NM or Lousiana). Its not like its the saving grace of our field. People think this is where the field is headed, but its never going to be widespread.

 

[edieb]

After like 50 years of advocacy, we only have prescription privilliges (with extra training) in all of 2 states (NM or Lousiana). Its not like its the saving grace of our field. People think this is where the field is headed, but its never going to be widespread.

Yes, I agree. The bills are getting closer and closer in some states (the bill made it to the Oregon governor last year and it only missed by a couple of votes this year in Montana) but I think it will be a while before RxP is widespread.

However, we have only been pushing HARD for RxP for 12 years, and 50 years ago nobody was pushing for RxP

 

[2012PhD]

Yes, I agree. The bills are getting closer and closer in some states (the bill made it to the Oregon governor last year and it only missed by a couple of votes this year in Montana) but I think it will be a while before RxP is widespread.

However, we have only been pushing HARD for RxP for 12 years, and 50 years ago nobody was pushing for RxP

Why don't people do the NP degree with the clincial psychology PhD/PsyD instead. Then you can at least practice anywhere.

 

[deleted106747]

Why don't people do the NP degree with the clincial psychology PhD/PsyD instead. Then you can at least practice anywhere.

If I go this route, this is how I would do it, but I want to practice in psychology for awhile before a) seeing if scripts are something I really want (e.g. I do not want to become just a med manager, and institutional pressures will be high in that direction), b) deciding if I think this is a good direction for the field as a whole.

I think the Psychologist & Psych NP on here pointed out that the two different fields lead to different boards, different continuing education requirements, differnet conferences, different everything and that it would be much more coherent if it was within the same professon.

 

[medium rare]

If I go this route, this is how I would do it, but I want to practice in psychology for awhile before a) seeing if scripts are something I really want (e.g. I do not want to become just a med manager, and institutional pressures will be high in that direction), b) deciding if I think this is a good direction for the field as a whole.

I think the Psychologist & Psych NP on here pointed out that the two different fields lead to different boards, different continuing education requirements, differnet conferences, different everything and that it would be much more coherent if it was within the same professon.

That's correct. Double everything - including malpractice insurance. APAIT only charges Rx psychologists an additional $100/yr for their malpractice coverage. Additionally, you have to pay for the RN part of the NP license separately. Dollar-wise, it does not necessarily break the bank, but it can be somewhat tedious to stay on top of the CE requirements for both professions. It would make much more sense in many ways to do this as part of one profession and under one license.

As far as reimbursement, the rates are not necessarily the same. The DEA considers Rx psychologists to be "mid-level prescribers" and some insurances reimburse the NP rate, not the MD rate. I don't take insurance personally so I don't have to deal with this, but in the cases where I have done single-case agreements with insurance companies, I have been able to obtain the MD rate due to my dual credentials. However, if I were a paneled provider, I'm sure they would push the NP rate or something in between.

 

[MrQuack]

That's correct. Double everything - including malpractice insurance. APAIT only charges Rx psychologists an additional $100/yr for their malpractice coverage. Additionally, you have to pay for the RN part of the NP license separately. Dollar-wise, it does not necessarily break the bank, but it can be somewhat tedious to stay on top of the CE requirements for both professions. It would make much more sense in many ways to do this as part of one profession and under one license.

As far as reimbursement, the rates are not necessarily the same. The DEA considers Rx psychologists to be "mid-level prescribers" and some insurances reimburse the NP rate, not the MD rate. I don't take insurance personally so I don't have to deal with this, but in the cases where I have done single-case agreements with insurance companies, I have been able to obtain the MD rate due to my dual credentials. However, if I were a paneled provider, I'm sure they would push the NP rate or something in between.

Now how do you get the NP degree? Did you pursue it after your PhD? How long does it take to obtain?

 

[medium rare]

Now how do you get the NP degree? Did you pursue it after your PhD? How long does it take to obtain?

I went back for the psych NP after having practiced for a few years as a psychologist. I'm child-trained and it was a nightmare trying to refer C&A patients (and adult for that matter) for medication evals.

It took me about 3 years total to get the NP - including nursing school prereqs and the RN. You can do a search for NP training on SDN - it has been discussed before.

 

[MrQuack]

After like 50 years of advocacy, we only have prescription privilliges (with extra training) in all of 2 states (NM or Lousiana). Its not like its the saving grace of our field. People think this is where the field is headed, but its never going to be widespread.

Who said we need saving?

For me, someone interested in resilience to trauma, when you read articles like this... http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/729444 you see yourself becoming irrelevant.

 

[2012PhD]

I went back for the psych NP after having practiced for a few years as a psychologist. I'm child-trained and it was a nightmare trying to refer C&A patients (and adult for that matter) for medication evals.

It took me about 3 years total to get the NP - including nursing school prereqs and the RN. You can do a search for NP training on SDN - it has been discussed before.

Good for you. What was your rationale for pursuing the psych NP degree in addition to a PhD?

Does the Psych NP Degree increase your income significantly above what it would be in a therapy practice?

 

[Ollie123]

The link just goes to a login MrQuack. Can you post the citation?

 

[medium rare]

Good for you. What was your rationale for pursuing the psych NP degree in addition to a PhD?

Does the Psych NP Degree increase your income significantly above what it would be in a therapy practice?

As I mentioned, I decided to pursue the NP because it was next to impossible to get any of my child therapy patients in with a child psychiatrist. Adult patients were somewhat easier, but still had to encounter waiting times of 6 weeks to 3 months, depending on the time of year.

Yes, it has increased my income substantially, but this was not the primary motivation behind my going back to school. The money is good though.

 

[MrQuack]

The link just goes to a login MrQuack. Can you post the citation?

Sorry my school database just shot me threw that so I didn't know one had to log in.

Just search propranolol and PTSD on google scholar, it's a pretty popular subject. To anyone interested in chronic PTSD or long term/short term memory in general, it is mind blowing.

 

[MrQuack]

And again, how many classes/how long does it take to go the medical psych route after PhD?

To that regard, what are the costs? Can you practice part time to defray the expense?

 

[edieb]

And again, how many classes/how long does it take to go the medical psych route after PhD?

To that regard, what are the costs? Can you practice part time to defray the expense?

Just look up some of the programs. It's 24 classes + Practicum. In Louisiana, I know for a fact that MPs bill under psychiatry codes

I would not enter the profession to prescribe. However, unless you you are happy making $69K and being outearned by Physical Therapists, Pharmacists, Physician Assistants and everybody else with a master's degree, enjoy not being able to get any of your patients their medications, and being equated with a social worker, I would not go into this profession. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to medical school for sure. This field is SO not worth it

 

[MrQuack]

Just look up some of the programs. It's 24 classes + Practicum. In Louisiana, I know for a fact that MPs bill under psychiatry codes

I would not enter the profession to prescribe. However, unless you you are happy making $69K and being outearned by Physical Therapists, Pharmacists, Physician Assistants and everybody else with a master's degree, enjoy not being able to get any of your patients their medications, and being equated with a social worker, I would not go into this profession. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to medical school for sure. This field is SO not worth it

Hence my interest in MP. I'm also interested in neuropsych for many of the same reasons. I just think that these two fields are more structured and straight forward in what they offer and do not get confused with or infringed upon as much as other fields in psych.

It's not just to prescribe meds, but that is obviously a draw. I understand that treating mental illness is a group effort, but I'd rather be at the top of that totem pole rather than the middle.

What is the cost per credit hour for these classes? I can't imagine it's more than 1k. And what of this practicum?

 

[Pharmohaulic]

If I go this route, this is how I would do it, but I want to practice in psychology for awhile before a) seeing if scripts are something I really want (e.g. I do not want to become just a med manager, and institutional pressures will be high in that direction), b) deciding if I think this is a good direction for the field as a whole.

I think the Psychologist & Psych NP on here pointed out that the two different fields lead to different boards, different continuing education requirements, differnet conferences, different everything and that it would be much more coherent if it was within the same professon.

I agree with this Completey, people always say, "why not as a psychologist go back become a NP or a PA to prescribe?" But that defeats the whole purpose because then you're practicing as an advanced practice nurse or physicians assistant, not a "prescribing psychologist"

 

[erg923]

I agree with this Completey, people always say, "why not as a psychologist go back become a NP or a PA to prescribe?" But that defeats the whole purpose because then you're practicing as an advanced practice nurse or physicians assistant, not a "prescribing psychologist"

Huh?

 

[PikminOC]

NO. Classes are in person, NOT online. You cannot push and finish them earlier. They are taught by M.D.s and D.O.s You then have to pass the Proficiency Examination in Psychopharmacology (PEP). Here is the APA link to the knowledge domains

http://www.rxpsychology.com/pep_knowledge_domains.pdf

In illinois the apa tried very hard to make this online training, that was their proposal.

And no, psychiatrist don't hate the reimbursements. Plenty of patients to go around

 

[PikminOC]

As I mentioned, I decided to pursue the NP because it was next to impossible to get any of my child therapy patients in with a child psychiatrist. Adult patients were somewhat easier, but still had to encounter waiting times of 6 weeks to 3 months, depending on the time of year.

Yes, it has increased my income substantially, but this was not the primary motivation behind my going back to school. The money is good though.

Correct. Because as a physician who completes Psychiatry residency, an additional child fellowship has to be completed to treat children. Interesting eh?

 

[PikminOC]

Just look up some of the programs. It's 24 classes + Practicum. In Louisiana, I know for a fact that MPs bill under psychiatry codes

I would not enter the profession to prescribe. However, unless you you are happy making $69K and being outearned by Physical Therapists, Pharmacists, Physician Assistants and everybody else with a master's degree, enjoy not being able to get any of your patients their medications, and being equated with a social worker, I would not go into this profession. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to medical school for sure. This field is SO not worth it

Anyone is welcome to go to med school

 

[WisNeuro]

Can we just merge these threads into the sticky above, otherwise we have to continually go through the same tired arguments on both sides and the turf war on a regular basis.

 

[PikminOC]

Why was op banned?

 

[PikminOC]

Can we just merge these threads into the sticky above, otherwise we have to continually go through the same tired arguments on both sides and the turf war on a regular basis.

I don't feel there's a turf war. My opinions have changed alot.

 

[Pharmohaulic]

I don't feel there's a turf war. My opinions have changed alot.

Changes in what direction?

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't feel there's a turf war. My opinions have changed alot.

I don't think the turf war has gone away at all, I think that will always be inherent in this particular argument. There's not much new on this front though. I still support the idea of RxP in some form, but I vehemently oppose most of the implementation. I just think that the arguments are tired and consist of double standards and moving goalposts.

 

[Pharmohaulic]

Huh?

What was confusing