MD Medical School ECs

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datboi_58

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2+ Year Member
Unlike undergrad, I keep hearing that ECs don’t matter much in medical school. How true is this advice? Can I apply to residency without a single EC and be fine? Right now, my plan is looking like just school and summer research after M1.

A little background: I don’t spend all my time studying but I’m just not generally into many “formal” things. I love spending time with people but it’s usually informal. Even much of my “volunteering” can be informal because I love getting to know my neighbors and help them in any way that I can. Unfortunately, none of this fits into neat boxes on an application and much of it can’t be verified by a supervisor.
 
I would say this advice is in general not true. EC's are very important when applying to residency, just in a different way than how EC's were viewed when applying to medical school.

On your application to residency, the EC's are split into 3 broad categories of research (can keep undergrad research on there too), work experience (anything paid, clinical experiences, or teaching experiences), and volunteering (volunteering in the traditional sense + everything else that is not research or work). Given that the only parts of your entire application you work on are your personal statement, the EC section, and your hobbies, I would highly NOT recommend applying without EC's. The rest of your application (test scores, letters, transcript and school performance) are basically done and/or out of your control (letters) by the time you apply.

How are EC's viewed and how should you approach this?
- Do things you love and feel passionate about. Even if they are informal, as long as it's something important to you and you've done meaningful work with it (I don't know like if you play the organ in your neighborhood church every Sunday - sorry for the random example), you can put it on there. These are good conversation starters for interviews - "Oh I see that you've been playing the organ for years - tell me how did that start? Have you always played an instrument?"
- Try out things you think you might be interested in, even if it eventually doesn't go anywhere. Research doesn't have to be super hard core in med school. Find a case report, do some chart review, just show that you can do scholarly work. Publications are great but they're not everything (unless you are applying to ortho/ophtho/derm/plastics/ultra competitive specialty). As long as you can have an intelligent conversation about what you did and what you learned from it, it can be a great EC.
- Do things that demonstrate some desirable characteristics. Once again, can be in anything. You can join your med school student government - show leadership skills. Become an organizer/leader in your volunteering work. Mentor and teach other medical students. Coach a youth sports group in the summer. Leverage your skills! If you love gift wrapping, maybe you organize a group of med students and offer to help wrap gifts and donate them - the world is your oyster!

At the end of the day though, your academic work must come first, so don't sacrifice your grades and test scores for EC's. But if your scores end up not being the most amazing scores there ever were, then having an impressive list of EC's will be very important in helping you gain that coveted residency position. With step 1 now P/F and some schools having P/F rotations too, I suspect EC's will only become more important as time goes on.
 
drducky. said:
Do enough to have something to talk about. Tho I disagree with the previous poster about having a leadership position to show off your leadership skills.
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I agree with this. The only real utility of non-research ECs is interview fodder for the majority of applicants. But pre-interview, they're effectively worthless unless you started/ran a company or did something crazy like that.
 
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Thank you everyone for your response! Additional question: are scholarships counted as awards that you can list? Even local/regional scholarships?
 
drducky. said:
Do enough to have something to talk about. Tho I disagree with the previous poster about having a leadership position to show off your leadership skills.
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I agree with this also--you need to do SOMETHING so that you can talk about what you did in an interview situation, but it should NOT take a ton of your time. With respect, if your grades/board scores aren't good, no amount of ECs are going to save you.

Additionally, the main benefit you will find from joining a specialty interest group is that you may find someone that you can identify as your mentor. This person may or may not get to know you in a clinical setting (and thus may not be able to write an LOR), but they can absolutely point you in the right direction to be involved in research, give you suggestions for programs when you're applying, etc. Hopefully you see whatever volunteering that is done as part of these groups as good for the sake of doing something good for your community, but if that's not really your thing then see it as kind of the price of getting career advice.
datboi_58 said:
Thank you everyone for your response! Additional question: are scholarships counted as awards that you can list? Even local/regional scholarships?
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Yes.
 
As I'm currently applying right now and obviously haven't matched yet, most of what I'm saying is purely speculative until I get to the other side of things. BUT what has been brought up multiple times in interviews has had to do with branding/fit, specifically the question of "What is your program looking for in a future resident?" Not all programs are looking for the same type of people - are you going to be the next hot-shot physician scientist who's going to bring grant money to our institution? Are you going to be a clinician-educator? Someone who is going to get those community-based initiatives rolling? The best team player they've ever seen? What makes you tick?

So I agree you don't need leadership positions to show off leadership skills, but I think it is important to think about what you eventually want to show. Don't be like me and get to the end of third year and regret not having tried harder to explore/find the thing that gets you really excited. There's intellectually knowing you're going to be absolutely fine with good scores/grades, and there's feeling fine when you send that app out to programs (the EC's might help with the latter).
 
Jillofalltrades said:
As I'm currently applying right now and obviously haven't matched yet, most of what I'm saying is purely speculative until I get to the other side of things. BUT what has been brought up multiple times in interviews has had to do with branding/fit, specifically the question of "What is your program looking for in a future resident?" Not all programs are looking for the same type of people - are you going to be the next hot-shot physician scientist who's going to bring grant money to our institution? Are you going to be a clinician-educator? Someone who is going to get those community-based initiatives rolling? The best team player they've ever seen? What makes you tick?

So I agree you don't need leadership positions to show off leadership skills, but I think it is important to think about what you eventually want to show. Don't be like me and get to the end of third year and regret not having tried harder to explore/find the thing that gets you really excited. There's intellectually knowing you're going to be absolutely fine with good scores/grades, and there's feeling fine when you send that app out to programs (the EC's might help with the latter).
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I agree with you. I am currently applying this year to a moderately competitive speciality from a no-name med school. I have good clinical grades, step scores > 250s, AOA, some pubs. I have been very lucky to have interviews at multiple top institutions (think MGH, Penn, Yale) compared to my friends in AOA with excellent step scores, pubs applying to the same speciality. All of my interviewers thus far took interest and commended my unique ECs and extensive volunteering experience with the underserved. Again, quantity and quality of involvement are both important: Founding/Leading an student organization/initiative > serving as a president of an interest group > serving as a treasurer/secretary of a random student club. FYI, I am male, ORM.
 
What I have heard over and over again is that they're looking for passion and "well roundedness". Like they want to see that you're not just a step crushing automaton, lol. You don't have to be "vice douche of the IM club", to quote my illustrious friend @Neopolymath. Your EC could simply be that you love to cook or that you enjoy mountain biking.

What they really want is someone "interesting". If it was up to me, I'd be content with a person with good character that's willing to work hard. I couldn't give two rats' hindquarters about what you like to do for fun or what clubs you were part of. But whatever. I guess this is part of what they use to decide between so many similar applicants.
 
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As a rule, research/pubs are the most important EC. But anything unique/cool/productive will be positive, and good to talk about during interviews.

But realize the hierarchy for residency applications Step 1+2/Clerkship Grades/LORs > Research/Pubs>>>>>Other ECs.
 
Research if you can get it/want it is best. Being in an interest group for your specialty wouldn’t look bad on an otherwise sparse application. You literally just pay a fee and eat pizza when they meet.

Have normal interests. I’ve talked about cooking and video games at every interview.

Edit: but it’s not like med school admissions where they want you to be in 50 clubs for no reason.
 
ace_inhibitor111 said:
I feel like many programs try to turn hobbies into some sort of competition of who’s the most interesting and it drives me absolutely crazy.
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This is basically what I imagine goes down at interviews.

Interviewer: Do a little dance for me *bites lower lip, staring expectantly*

Applicant: *Tries to dance awkwardly*

Interviewer: Okay I'm bored. Sing a song

Applicant: *Sings off-key*

Interviewer: Well that sucked. *Sigh* Tell me how cool you are

Applicant: Uhh...

Interviewer: Just...just get out
 
slowthai said:
This is basically what I imagine goes down at interviews.

Interviewer: Do a little dance for me *bites lower lip, staring expectantly*

Applicant: *Tries to dance awkwardly*

Interviewer: Okay I'm bored. Sing a song

Applicant: *Sings off-key*

Interviewer: Well that sucked. *Sigh* Tell me how cool you are

Applicant: Uhh...

Interviewer: Just...just get out
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Ah so I see you’re familiar with MMI
 
These threads are always so weird. I get it's a "game" but do you have interests at all? Just try to get into those and try to go above and beyond every so often.

Do you like cooking? Turn that into something cool like making a cookbook or be involved in a cooking club, try to get involved in some online cooking blog for healthy eating.

Do you like biking? get into biking maybe even compete in a race.

I felt the same way and it's hard but try to use your skills and take initiative.

I was really into lifting and competed in powerlifting and was able to talk about that for medical school. I turned my hobby into something that was more than just "I like lifting".
 
Yhwach said:
These threads are always so weird. I get it's a "game" but do you have interests at all? Just try to get into those and try to go above and beyond every so often.

Do you like cooking? Turn that into something cool like making a cookbook or be involved in a cooking club, try to get involved in some online cooking blog for healthy eating.

Do you like biking? get into biking maybe even compete in a race.

I felt the same way and it's hard but try to use your skills and take initiative.

I was really into lifting and competed in powerlifting and was able to talk about that for medical school. I turned my hobby into something that was more than just "I like lifting".
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I agree but the issue lies with the expectation that people should take initiative of their hobbies as if it's another hoop to jump through
 
Lawpy said:
I agree but the issue lies with the expectation that people should take initiative of their hobbies as if it's another hoop to jump through
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THIS. My hobbies/interests are not supposed to be work. They’re supposed to be enjoyable and restful.

And the same applies to service. My service is not supposed to be something I put on an application. It’s supposed to be something that connects me to my community.

But I will play the game since I have to. It’s not THAT big a deal at the end of the day.
 
drducky. said:
Do enough to have something to talk about. Tho I disagree with the previous poster about having a leadership position to show off your leadership skills.
Click to expand...

100%
I received plenty of interviews and matched my number 1 pick and my CV had nothing but a “research project experience” that led to zero pubs.

that being said you probably do “need” specialty specific research if you want a surgical subspecialty or something else highly competitive.

Otherwise any EC done to demonstrate your “leadership” or “compassion” is nonsense waste of your time unless it’s something you truly enjoy
 
AzBasRad said:
I agree with you. I am currently applying this year to a moderately competitive speciality from a no-name med school. I have good clinical grades, step scores > 250s, AOA, some pubs. I have been very lucky to have interviews at multiple top institutions (think MGH, Penn, Yale) compared to my friends in AOA with excellent step scores, pubs applying to the same speciality. All of my interviewers thus far took interest and commended my unique ECs and extensive volunteering experience with the underserved. Again, quantity and quality of involvement are both important: Founding/Leading an student organization/initiative > serving as a president of an interest group > serving as a treasurer/secretary of a random student club. FYI, I am male, ORM.
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So, this is all well and good, but I would venture that you probably did those things because you are actually passionate about doing those things, and not because you were "playing the game." Furthermore, sure... when you're talking about the absolute top programs, they do start to stratify themselves a bit beyond having good numbers because ALL of their applicants have good numbers, and they want "leaders."

If someone is legitimately passionate about doing those kinds of activities, and is also able to balance their studies to get outstanding grades and scores, then more power to them. Those are the rare people who self-select for the ivory tower institutions. But if the goal is simply to match at a good program, then I stand by saying that you just need enough on the app to spark a conversation in your interviews.
 
My ECs are literally

1. Study
2. The 13 research projects that I'm currently working on.

However, given the field that I want to go into (neurosx), those are the most important factors. My school doesn't have AOA, and is P/F nearly all four years except subinternships, so I have the luxury to overload on research. We also don't take Step until 3rd year. lol
 
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TheRealBatmanMD said:
My ECs are literally

1. Study
2. The 13 research projects that I'm currently working on.

However, given the field that I want to go into (neurosx), those are the most important factors. My school doesn't have AOA, and is P/F nearly all four years except subinternships, so I have the luxury to overload on research. We also don't take Step until 3rd year. lol
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AC10F252-1ED5-47DE-A478-C2A595AF9F71.jpeg

Something is amiss.
 
TheRealBatmanMD said:
Haha. I have had that there since Year 2 of undergrad (5 years ago). Technically, the exact field I want to go into is spinal surgery and both neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery would allow one to eventually specialize in spine. However, I switched to the neuro route awhile back.
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Your new one isn’t much better, though it is a level of humility befitting a (possible) future neurosurgeon. 😉
 
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