Medical School Education Style

[the_one_smiley]

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I have always preferred understanding fundamental concepts and applying them to solve problems instead of memorizing lots of things. Can anyone recommend specific (MSTP) schools that are supportive of this learning style? I know this is medical school, and when it comes down to it I will simply have to memorize tons and tons of stuff, but I know there are schools that at least try to encourage thinking over regurgitation when possible. For example, UCSD has an unusual curriculum where students learn anatomy after physiology because they feel that once you know physiology, anatomy makes functional sense instead of just being a couple of megabytes of information you have to memorize. This is the kind of mentality I am looking for, but it is difficult to find this kind of information on MSTP and medical school websites.

Problem Based Learning is one specific curriculum feature that came to mind. As far as I can tell, PBL can either be an excellent learning experience or a complete disaster depending on how it is implemented. However, I can't even figure out which schools use PBL, let alone how much their students like it.

So my questions are: What programs have general approaches (like UCSD) or specific features (such as PBL) that facilitate learning through thinking and understanding? From another angle, what schools (especially highly reputed ones) are known for sticking to the traditional memorize/regurgitate model exclusively? Also, what schools get PBL right, making it fun and useful?

 

[dave613]

I can almost guarantee you that every medical school's curriculum is more thinking based than rote memorization based. As for some being more than others, I don't think it will make much of a difference in your enjoyment of medical school, unless you just want to work 100 times harder than most future Mds.

 

[MacGyver]

I can almost guarantee you that every medical school's curriculum is more thinking based than rote memorization based. As for some being more than others, I don't think it will make much of a difference in your enjoyment of medical school, unless you just want to work 100 times harder than most future Mds.

Uhh sorry but thats an absolute joke. The entire 2nd year of med school is 90% memorization; the ONLY block that actually involves some problem solving is MAYBE some parts of cardiology or perhaps nephrology or endocrinology.

The first year involvs a little more problem solving, but its still 75% memorization.

 

[MacGyver]

I have always preferred understanding fundamental concepts and applying them to solve problems instead of memorizing lots of things. Can anyone recommend specific (MSTP) schools that are supportive of this learning style? I know this is medical school, and when it comes down to it I will simply have to memorize tons and tons of stuff, but I know there are schools that at least try to encourage thinking over regurgitation when possible. For example, UCSD has an unusual curriculum where students learn anatomy after physiology because they feel that once you know physiology, anatomy makes functional sense instead of just being a couple of megabytes of information you have to memorize. This is the kind of mentality I am looking for, but it is difficult to find this kind of information on MSTP and medical school websites.

Problem Based Learning is one specific curriculum feature that came to mind. As far as I can tell, PBL can either be an excellent learning experience of complete disaster depending on how it is implemented. However, I can't even figure out which schools use PBL, let alone how much their students like it.

So my questions are: What programs have general approaches (like UCSD) or specific features (such as PBL) that facilitate learning through thinking and understanding? From another angle, what schools (especially highly reputed ones) are known for sticking to the traditional memorize/regurgitate model exclusively? Also, what schools get PBL right, making it fun and useful?

You need a PBL school: Harvard comes to mind, they have a very strong PBL program.

Trust me you will be absolutely miserable in a conventional med school such as Vanderbilt.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

From my recollection, UCLA offers Anatomy that spans the first 2years of medical school, which will better enable the integration of Physiological and Anatomical data.

Also, as was mentioned above, schools that emphasize the PBL approach (many schools, have to investigate this one for yourself) will fit the bill so to speak.

In summary, Rote Memorization is going to be a large part of the Medical Curriculum. That is where the PhD portion comes in. It will allow you to get the "Fundamentals" and the "Depth" that you're looking for in your education.

From what some have quoted to me before:

Medical School: Broad Context, only a few inches deep.
Graduate School: Narrow Context, Miles deep.

👍

 

[javert]

If you haven't already done so, be sure to check out Rochester's Double Helix Curriculum

 

[Neuronix]

I thought PBL would be good too when I was applying. I now think it's crap. I'm sorry but you need to cram alot of info into your head, and you don't need to be wasting time trying to look it up on your own just so a clinician or basic scientist can tell you what's really going on. Yeah, the first two years of med school sucks, but don't think that PBL is necessarily going to soften the blow...

 

[Vader]

I must respectfully disagree with my colleague Neuronix on this issue. The advantage of PBL is that you will be practicing finding information on your own, coming up with a differential diagnosis, and learning in a more "active" manner, which has been shown to be a more effective style of education. I have personally found our PBL groups at UCSF to be extremely valuable in not only acquiring the material, but also in learning to interact with medical colleagues--something you will most likely be doing in your future career as a physician-scientist.

That being said, it is true that you have a tremendous amount of info to swallow and it often does seem that PBL is a relatively inefficient way to get there. However, in the long run, PBL tends to be more efficient, not less, in learning material. I still remember many of our cases even after a couple years having gone by. I can't say the same for most of our lectures.

At any rate, each person has his/her own learning style and for some PBL works, for others it doesn't. It sounds like the poster is looking for schools that promote active and conceptual learning as opposed to memorization of facts, so I would say PBL is at least one option.

UCSF has a completely integrated curriculum that combines anatomy, physiology, medicine, pathology, pharmacology, and other subjects into systems-oriented 8-week blocks. I encourage the OP to check out the web site for more info: http://medschool.ucsf.edu/

Happy browsing!

 

[treetrunk]

After speaking with some current MSTP students, I have heard that PBL is a lot of fluff. On student told me that as future physician scientists, it is better to go to a school that will teach us medicine in depth. For example, a school that will place greater emphasis on the mechanisms of a disease rather than simply having us memorize the symptoms. ANy comments from current MSTP-ers?

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

After speaking with some current MSTP students, I have heard that PBL is a lot of fluff. On student told me that as future physician scientists, it is better to go to a school that will teach us medicine in depth. For example, a school that will place greater emphasis on the mechanisms of a disease rather than simply having us memorize the symptoms. ANy comments from current MSTP-ers?

When I was applying to medical school, I thought PBL was a great idea. Then I ended up at U of Michigan and PBL was very minimal (we have a new curriculum now and there may be more of it). Regardless, I think conventional curricula are much better in terms of preparing a medical student for the USMLE and clinical rotations/shelf exams. In general, you have to know a ton of information for these exams. PBL will teach you a lot in detail about a focused topic (e.g., chest pain, dyspnea, abdominal pain). But conventional lecture based education will teach you a little about a lot of topics.

Now, here's another important issue. If you're school's curriculum is all PBL, you'll be in classes all the time. And it will be very obvious if you're skipping class. If you school has a bunch of lectures, then you can skip class and just get scribed notes. That's why Michigan's curriculum was great for me...I never went to class and life was great!

 

[the_one_smiley]

Thanks for all the helpful input and different perspectives. I agree with Vader in that PBL would suit my learning style better and result in a more permanent understanding, but as HotSteamingTurd points out, being obligated to go to every class could be tiresome. It seems like a happy medium that includes both lectures and PBL is the way to go for me.

Can anyone comment on the conceptual-learning-friendliness and PBL utilization of the following schools:
WashU St. Louis
Hopkins
Northwestern
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Vanderbilt

Thanks again!

 

[NGN47]

In my opinion, it really isn't that important how the school decides to teach you the material; in the end what matters is that you know the material. So, I definitely wouldn't choose a medical school based on their curriculum style. There are so many more important factors to look at, especially if you are doing the MSTP. You might find, as I did, that the most efficient method of learning during the first 2 years of medical school is studying on your own with the help of lecture notes, books, journal articles, practice tests etc. You can read a lot faster then someone else can talk, and when you have specific questions, there is no shortage of experts you can approach for answers.

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Oh and another thing to consider about PBLs is this. You will have people in your small group who love to talk incessantly just because they love to hear themselves talking and they love to kiss professors' bungholes (you're going into medical school, a place where people like this tend to congregate). That eats up time and decreases educational value. In the few small group sessions we had at U of Michigan, this was so annoying that I wanted to drive my pencil in my ears and twist back and forth.