medical school or nursing school?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Hilaree320

Como estas?
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
I am having a dilemma. I dont know whether I want to be a nurse or a doctor. I would LOVE to become a doctor, but 8 years of school and residency ahead of me isn't at all appealing. I have met the guy that I want to marry, and I want to do just that... I want to have time to get married, have a family, and have a comfortable life. So I thought about nursing... It seems pretty nice, you can have a schedule where you only work 3 days a week... And I would eventually go back to get my masters in CRNA or NP. But then I read a few msg boards and it seems that nursing isn't such a great career choice... But I just want a job where I will be able to have time to raise a family.. And not when Im 32.. (Im 17 now) But I mean, of course, after I get a BSN I could always go back get premed reqs, and go to med school... But I dont know.

So I guess my question is.. If you guys could go back in time.. Would you have rather gone to nursing school or medical school (considering amount of family time u have in each)? And do you honestly think nursing is a better career choice than a doctor, as far as being able to spend time with and raise a family?

Thanks!

Members don't see this ad.
 
First let me preface my statement by saying I am neither an RN nor an MD but I am a 33y/o mother of two who is also a pre-med student. If you REALLY want to be a doctor do it now! Believe me the time will go by quicker than you could imagine. The sacrifices you make now to go to med school will be a lot easier than the ones you'll make 10 years from now as a married woman possibly with kids, a mortgage, and other financial obligations. If you become an RN just because it's a "quick fix" you'll end up regretting it and you will have spent several years pursuing something you never really wanted. I understand the temptation of becoming a nurse. With the job market like it is you practically have your pick of places to work, shifts to work, $$, etc. And the thought of being 21y/o making $40K or more is very appealing. But maybe you should ask yourself this. Would you still be happy being an nurse if you never had the opportunity to go back to school later?
If you have a goal, pursue it now because you never know what tomorrow holds.
 
Hi there! I'm a pre-med student and have faced pretty much the same dilemma. Although I've always wanted to be a doctor, I've thought a lot recently about getting a master's in nursing (NP) instead, for pretty much the same reason--I'd like to raise a family before I have gray hair. :) Personally, if I had met the guy I wanted to marry, I would probably go for nursing. But everyone is different.

I don't know if you've been able to get any medical/nursing experience, but that might be helpful ... My local hospital is letting me volunteer one day a week in a nursing unit, and it is a great opportunity to get to know the nurses and see what their jobs are like.

Another thing you might want to check into is http://www.mommd.com They have some stuff (including message boards) about managing a medical career and family at the same time. I know it's possible to work part-time as a physician ... but that doesn't help much while you're in residency.

Before I went into college, I debated whether to pursue a BSN or a pre-med course of study, and have ended up in biochemistry. That's one of the few decisions I haven't regretted. :) I'm enjoying getting to study more science than I would in a nursing program, but still, if I decided to go for a BSN, it would only take 1 year after graduation. If you like science, that might be something to think about.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I was accepted into 2 premed programs out of high school, but without family support I was forced o go to nursing school instead. If I had it all to do over again? DEFINITELY would have gone to medical school. Don't get me wrong - I love being a nurse, but you have to put up with a lot. Without that advanced degree you better count on rotating to evening or night shifts and working holidays/weekends. I think the worst part is working understaffed and undercompensated in an industry that views rn's as dispensible costs each time Medicare regulations change.
 
Ahhhhhhhhh, Hilaree, Hilaree, Hilaree. When will women learn that men are not worth giving up your dreams for? This prince charming that you have met is not prince charming afterall dear. He is going to cheat on you pretty soon. You are only 17 so I will not blame you for not knowing that men are worthless, selfish, horney pigs. How do I know? I AM A MAN. So let us now review. You are bright, young with minimal responsibility. At 17 you should not even be thinking about kids and marriage. First build yourself as a person then try to build little tiny children. The concept of family is attractive to many. However, the real thing is a pain in the rectal cavity if you are not prepared. If you become a nurse and have kids, you'll be changing diapers all day long dear. First grandpa at work then your kids at home. And then prince charming is going to tell you, "honey, I've met someone else". What then? All you will have are your dirty diapers. Pursue your dreams and don't let a "prince charming" leave you with dirty diapers.
 
Just some info: A lot of people view being a doc as taking too long b/c of residency. Remember that u do get paid for residency about 35k/year and some specialties have a 45-55hr work week. So, u would work and get paid about the same as a nurse during residency. Don't fear residency it is basically OJT.
 
How about becoming a pharmacist? The profession is great if you want to have the time to raise a family. No wonder 75% of pharmacy students are females. In addition, the profession pays pretty well.
 
hhmmm... very interesting thread! I notice that a lot of the replies reflect individuals individual experiences - whic is fine - but how about considering the non-pessimistic, non-career driven perspective? (not that those go together-I saw both perspectives individually. What I read from the thread starter is that she places a high value on family and home life-why is she being attacked for that? I think a lot of the unhappiness we see everyday is not b/c people did not reach for their most challenging dream, but becuase they did so at the expense of the basics in life-family, community, personal time, exercise, health, etc. I have talked to many physicians (male and female) whos primary stressor is not having enough time for their family. At the end of life your patiemts are not going to care for you, your colleuges wont be there, you'll need your family. Is a career in medicine exclusive from good parenting-no, but unless you find one of those specialites that pays enough to pay for $160,000 in loans and allows for reasobale hours, its got to be tough. Not to mention malpractice and HMO's. I think the thread starter should be admired for placing her priorities according to her values.

Since this a nursing thread-how about any CRNA's, NP's out there?

To be fair, my bias: male, med student, married to a nurse who works three days a week and makes great $$$.
 
Why dont you try to take up the nursing program and do the pre med curriculum at the same time. Most schools let you do that. All pre med is 2 classes of organic chemistry, 2 pyhsics class, 2 classes of inorganic chemistry, 2 biology classes, and usually one semester of english and math (calculus). I am doing pre med and nursing simultaneously at my college now. All it really is, is one extra class per semester (in addition to your nursing curriculum) and you could knock out physics during the summer so your pre med will only take u 3 years. When you graduate you will have your bachelors in nursing and well as your pre med. Good Luck. I hope my info has been valuable in your decision.
 
Originally posted by troache
Why dont you try to take up the nursing program and do the pre med curriculum at the same time. Most schools let you do that. All pre med is 2 classes of organic chemistry, 2 pyhsics class, 2 classes of inorganic chemistry, 2 biology classes, and usually one semester of english and math (calculus). I am doing pre med and nursing simultaneously at my college now. All it really is, is one extra class per semester (in addition to your nursing curriculum) and you could knock out physics during the summer so your pre med will only take u 3 years. When you graduate you will have your bachelors in nursing and well as your pre med. Good Luck. I hope my info has been valuable in your decision.

Not a bad option.

Keep in mind, though, that lots of thing change between 17 and 22.

I would like to disagree a bit with the earlier poster who discouraged you from having a family and then going to med school. If you plan for it, then it really isn't a bad option. By planning I mean things like: keep your financial obligations to a minimum (so that you can afford to spend those years in school & residency), don't have more kids than you can divide your time among while in med school (med school takes a big chunk of time), and keeping your family with you while you are in school (either go to a local school or move the whole family to where you are accepted).

I chose to put off med school so that I could have a child and stay at home with her until she started school. I only had one child and had even decided that if I had any more I wouldn't go to med school because I didn't feel I (personally) could spread myself that thin. Fortunately, I already live near an excellent med school, so we didn't have to move. We did our best to financially plan for this, granted, things don't always work out exactly as planned (there are always unexpected expenses), but we don't have any big financial stresses even with my lack of income & various extra med school expenses.

The previous poster is exactly correct, though, that med students with families do have extra obligations. Its truly a balancing act, and sometimes school & studying have to be put aside so that I can be a decent mom and wife. Just my $0.02.

Things to think about...but you have plenty of time. Go to college, see if you can do a nursing program & work in the med school pre-reqs (probably worth your time even if it makes you take more than 4 years to get done), and enjoy yourself!
 
Hilaree320,

In my humble opinion neither career is intrinsically more rewarding. My parents are nurses and I am in my last year of medical school. I find the challange of decision making and managing patient care fun. I would not be happy in a position where others made those decisions. When I was an EMT I constantly wanted to do and learn more. Having said that, I would like to point out that my parents pity me for having less contact with patients. For them they enjoy being implementors of the care plan for the patient.

I know there are many other differences between nursing and doctoring, including the amount of time it takes to achieve both, but I would (and did) make my decision based on which would make me the happiest.

Hope this helps
 
Hilaree,
Let me tell you that you're not alone in your dilemma. I have been pondering a similar situation for quite some time now. I'm a honor roll student at my high school, and the group of kids I've come through school with are all A-type personalities, traveling off to college as pre-med, pre-law, engineering, what have you. In many ways, based on the combination of my high grades and interest in medicine, it was simply expected that I become a doctor because I was able to be one. However, I have chosen to pursue nursing, instead. I, too, have a serious boyfriend. We've been together for almost 3 years (I'm a senior in high school), and have made it through a long distance relationship while he has been at college. I know he's the guy I'm going to marry, and I know that I want to focus on a having a family with him someday (like you, NOT when i'm in my mid-30's). What I gathered from mommd.com is that while it is possible to balance being a doctor and a mother, it is difficult, stressful and requires lots of complicated time-management, sacrifices, and luck of the draw. I chose nursing because I became realistic about what type of personality I really have: I'm a very social person, and I like the idea of having more patient contact. I also am not an alpha-dog type person, which has made me realize that I am not the type to be comfortable as the one calling all of the shots. Basically, it just fit my interests, goals, and personality. I had to first accept that it was by no means an inferior profession, just another important facet of healthcare. I don't need an M.D. to know that I am capable and intelligent. I will be happy enough as a nurse, even if it is sometimes looked down upon (as my mother, an R.N. of 27 years has told me repeatedly to convince to follow HER dream of being a doctor).
I hope that even if our situations are different in some ways, that this helped you. I know how tough it is to be in your position. Good Luck!!
 
Those of you in HS who are trying to decide on whether or not you should do Med school versus nursing crack me up. You are TEENAGERS, go to college enjoy life and wait until you are more mature to decide. I know you think youre mature now, I did too when I was that age( Im 27 now). But a lot happens between 17-23. You are certainly not experienced enough with medicine to make a decision. This is not intended as an insult, but youre in HS for gods sake.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Originally posted by painres
Those of you in HS who are trying to decide on whether or not you should do Med school versus nursing crack me up. You are TEENAGERS, go to college enjoy life and wait until you are more mature to decide. I know you think youre mature now, I did too when I was that age( Im 27 now). But a lot happens between 17-23. You are certainly not experienced enough with medicine to make a decision. This is not intended as an insult, but youre in HS for gods sake.


Painres,

I think I understand the point you are attempting to make, but the spirit in which you are delivering it, is a bit presumptuous. You assume that because the poster is 17, that they do not have "enough experience with medicine." Surely you know that you and I have absolutely no idea about this person's background. They may have had to deal with quite a bit of medicine in their life, if for example, they had a chronic medical condition or had to deal with the illness of a loved one. I can only speak from my experience, but I do indeed know of high school aged students who are mature enough to make the monumental decision to enter medicine. I was an academic counselor (in my former career) and met several students who were accepted straight out of high school into medical school programs. These students were accepted into an "early acceptance" program through Rice Univ. and Baylor College of Medicine. They would attend Rice Univ., to complete their bachelor's degrees, and if they met all of the program's requirements, they would automatically matriculate into BCOM's medical school. Quite a commitment indeed. These students are obviously very dedicated and are not the norm, but it does happen. So let's give the poster a little credit, I know I was nowhere near this level of mature thinking in high school. I can't assume everyone was like me though, some of us are late bloomers. :)

Monika
UTMB PA class of 2005
 
Experience with sick family members or volunteering in a hospital, does not prepare one for the experience of medical school and residency, or give adequate exposure to the health care field.. Many people are in love with the IDEA of being a doctor, and dont know what it truly entails. For a teenager to say they do is presumptious in my book.
 
Originally posted by Hilaree320
I am having a dilemma. I dont know whether I want to be a nurse or a doctor. I would LOVE to become a doctor, but 8 years of school and residency ahead of me isn't at all appealing. I have met the guy that I want to marry, and I want to do just that... I want to have time to get married, have a family, and have a comfortable life. So I thought about nursing... It seems pretty nice, you can have a schedule where you only work 3 days a week... And I would eventually go back to get my masters in CRNA or NP. But then I read a few msg boards and it seems that nursing isn't such a great career choice... But I just want a job where I will be able to have time to raise a family.. And not when Im 32.. (Im 17 now) But I mean, of course, after I get a BSN I could always go back get premed reqs, and go to med school... But I dont know.

So I guess my question is.. If you guys could go back in time.. Would you have rather gone to nursing school or medical school (considering amount of family time u have in each)? And do you honestly think nursing is a better career choice than a doctor, as far as being able to spend time with and raise a family?

Thanks!

Wow. You high school kids are an hilarious bunch. You're 17 and already know he's the man...er BOY you want to marry?? Here's the deal, gooooober is basically right, though he could be a bit more tactful...

(1)deciding on any career right out of high school is total crap. In 99% of cases, you're just too immature to realize that.
(2)Nursing is a field in which you have zero autonomy. At 17 or 18 you might think that it's ok to not be in charge. Ok, fine. Wait a few years, say 20, when you're an adult, and think about what it'll be like...a physician (who's maybe 10 years younger than you)will be making all the decisions, and that's the way it'll go on throughout your career. What this means is...virtually zero upward mobility in your career. Unless you want an administrative position, which is less upward mobility and more b.s. than anything else.
(3) nursing also means no intellectual challenge. Sure you need great people skills, but that's about it. Just keep this in mind when making your decision.
(4) the BSN in nursing is not particularly well-respected as far as med school admissions. That's a fact.
(5)Raising a family as a nurse isn't too easy, either. You might work 3 days per week, but these tend to be 12 hour shifts, are constantly changing (at least at some hospitals), and make for great difficulty when it comes to things like seeing your kids, etc.
(6)It's physically very demanding. Think about how you'll handle that in 30 years.
(7)Keep in mind that there's a huge nursing shortage right now. What this means is good job prospects.

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way. I'm just trying to keep you informed as to the relative benefits of medicine over nursing. There are plenty of women physicians who get married and raise kids. My advice is to not worry about getting married and having kids until you are an adult. Have fun in college and keep your options open.
 
Originally posted by painres
Experience with sick family members or volunteering in a hospital, does not prepare one for the experience of medical school and residency, or give adequate exposure to the health care field.. Many people are in love with the IDEA of being a doctor, and dont know what it truly entails. For a teenager to say they do is presumptious in my book.

I'm a 3rd year MD student (male, 27) and just happened upon this thread wondering what pre-nursing students were talking about.

I have to echo some of the comments I see here. I can't even begin to describe, for someone who is 17, the changes that happened to me since the time I was that age. Like you, and many others, I was in LOVE with the idea of being a doctor. I wanted to be a doctor since I was in sixth grade! My mother was frequently sick due to SLE, and also battled cancer. I loved science, and serving humanity through various projects (tutoring, big brother/sister, emt, etc.). I loved reading books about medicine- all of this before even graduating high school.

Side note: I had a high school sweetheart I was deeply in love with, and thought I would marry. Within two months of starting college, both of us discovered we were way to young to make that kind of committment. We split up, but are still friends to this day.

I attended a good college and majored in neurobiology, did some research, and graduated with honors. In college I read books about different medical specialties, watched videos of surgery at the local medical school, and wanted more than anything to be a surgeon. I got a master's and worked for a year before starting medical school. The application process was draining, and it took me two tries before getting in. I was so driven, it didn't matter. I would have applied ten times if I needed to. That's how committed I was to becomming a physician.

I plowed through the first two years of medical school, which were a bit of a shock. The volume of information you are required to digest just to keep up with your classmates is overwhelming. It's hard not to go a little insane, everyone does. By the time we all took Step 1 of the boards, we were pretty beaten up, but excited to start clinical rotations third year.

Rotations have gone well, but the cumulative stress I experienced over the last 10 years finally hit me. I've changed. The idealistic values that drove me to endure endless hours of work in pursuit of my goal have given way to a more defensive posture. It's no longer entirely, or even mostly about "the patient", and "helping people". While I still enjoy helping people, and love learning about the new people I meet every day, my top priority is my future lifestyle. I used to want more than anything to be a surgeon, but now I cringe in disgust at the notion of working the kind of hours expected in residency and practice. I am now gravitating toward anesthesiology- a field that is intense, but has a very controllable lifestyle. I am no longer in love with the idea of being a doctor. Reality has set in- and being a doctor really looks like any other job to me. I know it looks different from the other side of the med school admissions process, but once you're colleagues are all doctors, and you are fully conversant in medicine, it ceases to be special in the way it is before you come to medical school.

The point of all this is to hopefully impart a sense of gravity to the decision to pursue medicine as a career. The level of determination needed to become a doctor is probably not present in someone who is wrestling between medicine and nursing. If you were cut out to be a doctor, the choice would be obvious. The fact that you strongly believe you are with the person you will eventually marry demonstrates your innocence.

My advice, similar to that of others here, is to ENJOY LIFE NOW. Don't base any decisions you make on the plans of your significant other. Go to college, DON'T MAJOR IN NURSING. If you do end up going for medicine, admissions committees will not respect a degree in nursing. Find some other (academic) area of interest, and fall in love studying it. Concurrently, complete the pre-med curriculum, and see if you have the "intestinal fortitude" to handle (a tiny fraction of) the workload in medical school.

Medicine can be truly wonderful, and there is no other place I'd rather be, but comprehending the magnitude of the committment involved in becoming a physician is simply beyond your years. Take it slow, you have lots of time to make up your mind.

Craig, M3
Finch/CMS
 
Originally posted by md_student10021

(1).
(2)Nursing is a field in which you have zero autonomy. At 17 or 18 you might think that it's ok to not be in charge. Ok, fine. Wait a few years, say 20, when you're an adult, and think about what it'll be like...a physician (who's maybe 10 years younger than you)will be making all the decisions, and that's the way it'll go on throughout your career.

(3) nursing also means no intellectual challenge. Sure you need great people skills, but that's about it. Just keep this in mind when making your decision.

(5)Raising a family as a nurse isn't too easy, either. You might work 3 days per week, but these tend to be 12 hour shifts, are constantly changing (at least at some hospitals), and make for great difficulty when it comes to things like seeing your kids, etc.



I hope you don't take this post the wrong way. I'm just trying to keep you informed as to the relative benefits of medicine over nursing.

Any former or current nurse who read that post should be offended. I am extremely offended by your above remarks in that in my years as a critical care nurse and now as an advanced practice nurse I have met so many people who were intellectually outstanding. As you move along your career path I assure you , you will come across docs who are absolute bone heads and nurses who demonstrate near genius. that's just life.

Step down a few notches and look at the big picture...

I am hoping that when you begin your career in medicine you will bear witness to a nurse who bails you butt out of trouble the middle of the nite.

I am hoping that when you take Advanced Cardiac life support you will look and notice that in most instances it will be a nurse teaching you how to defibrillate.

I am hoping that when you are at a code the lowly respiratory therapist intubates because they will know airway management better than you.

I am hoping that when you patient is going down the crapper and you don't know what the hell to do it will be nurse who turns to you and says 'perhaps you should start some dopamine or give some cardizem'. I assure you, you will not even know how to infuse it.


I am hoping that when you become an attending that you realize that 2 am phone call to tell you that your patient is having an acute Inferior wall MI will probably come from a nurse.

I am hoping that you realize that not everyone has been blessed with the directive, finances, or ability to pursue medical school. I have met several physicians that have made it this far only because they were able to get through the process of applying.

Nurses who choose to be are continuously intellectually challenged. There is not another profession where day after day you assume such responsiblity. I agree with what you were trying to say to the first poster but I feel that you reduced the nursing profession to merely those who blindlessly follow orders. You could not have been farther from the truth.



By the way the Society for Critical Care Medicine (SCOM)...the president??? She's a nurse.

thanks for listening. OP__good luck no matter what you do. sorry to use your post as a sounding board. thanks.
 
Originally posted by lizzied2003
Any former or current nurse who read that post should be offended. I am extremely offended by your above remarks in that in my years as a critical care nurse and now as an advanced practice nurse I have met so many people who were intellectually outstanding. As you move along your career path I assure you , you will come across docs who are absolute bone heads and nurses who demonstrate near genius. that's just life.

Nurses who choose to be are continuously intellectually challenged. There is not another profession where day after day you assume such responsiblity. I agree with what you were trying to say to the first poster but I feel that you reduced the nursing profession to merely those who blindlessly follow orders. You could not have been farther from the truth.

I'm not surprised to have offended someone. And apologies are in order, lizzie, because that was not my intention.

But I think you misunderstand what I mean by intellectual challenge. Nurses need people skills, need to think on their feet, and assume a ton of responsibility. Nonetheless, you ARE limited as far as autonomy. You ARE limited as far as opportunities for true intellectual discourse - study, reflection, creative application, etc. (though this is probably true of most physicians outside of academia).

And stop "hoping..." I know that I will depend on nurses a large portion of the time. Any MD who is not an ass truly appreciates what you do.
 
thanks for your kind and thoughtful response. i appreciate it. lizzied.
 
hey, it's me again. and after reading this whole thread, ive realized that there is really no way for anyone to clearly advise hilary on this topic. heck, my own parents and best friends cant even tell me what the right decision would be. just to solidify where im coming from on this, monika's post was right. there are a lot of individual experiences that can affect how hilary and i (naive high schoolers) view our situations. i know more about medicine than some might think. i was born with a hole in my heart. my father battled mouth cancer during most of my childhood, and he was in the hospital a ton, obviously. my mother is a nurse, and is currently going to medical school, so i think i have a better grasp on this subject than a lot of people my age, both sides of the coin included. and who's to automatically say you cant meet your future husband in high school? my parents were high school sweethearts and have been together for 27 years. what im trying to say is that its hard to give someone great advice when all you know is what they told you on a message board. but as a semi-confused high school student in limbo between two career paths, the last thing you want to hear is doctors bashing nursing, or vice versa, or people assuming that since you are 18, you havent learned anything about love, life/death, or medicine. and by the way, i admire you, mdstudent10021, for making that apology.
 
I have to say that choosing between nursing or medicine all depends on the person and I think the only way for that person to know for sure is go volunteer at a hospital and see what being a doctor or a nurse is about.
 
by the way does anyone know exactly what classes a nurse needs to take if they want to go to med school?
 
Here is an idea for anyone thinking about MD/DO vs RN/CRNA.
I am a 20 y/o guy. I went to a 2 year RN school and am 3 weeks away from graduation. In 1.5 months I start a RN-BSN program. I will have a BSN after 3 years. Prereqs are about the same for CRNA and Medical school. After my BSN I am doing those prereqs. I will then decide between Med school or CRNA. Either way I can work as a nurse through the rest of my education. Just an idea

PS Salary for starting RN 38,000 Average salary for CRNA 105,000
 
EMT,
There's not any CRNA schools that I know of that require undergrad physics like med school applicants must have. I've heard the average is about 120K but I know it depends on where you are. It's certainly much higher where I am at. Good luck in your quest!
 
The University of Iowa is the program I have done the most research on.

MD requriments: Physics, College level math, Organic and General Chemistry, and Biology

CRNA requirments: A&P, Patho-Physiology, Pharmacology, Adv. Assessment, Biology, Inorganic, Organic, and Bio-Chemistry, College level math and College Physics

The CRNA program also requires at least 1 year ICU work. The MD program requries no medical experience.

Most other CRNA programs do not have physics as a prerequisite but all have a physics class in thier program.
 
Just because she is only 17 years old does not mean that she is not mature enough to make a college wise decision. Just because you are older does not make you smarter, and just because your a teenager does not make you dumber than people who are older than you. I was 17 when I was in my first year of college. I also wondered if I should do nursing or med school. I chose med school. When you said that she is not experienced enough with medicine to make that decision, you were so WRONG. You do not have to have medical experience to want to become a nurse or a doctor. I am 19 years old and I think that I am smart beyond my years, because what you said was very ingnorant for your 27 years of age. Just because she's in high school does not mean that she cannot make a wise decision. Why would you tell her to go to college and then figure it out. What a waste of time and money. Just because you didnt know what you were doing doesnt mean that she doesnt know what she is doing. And your background does not matter either. Who says that a doctors son will make it in med school. His fathers a doctor, he's been around medicine all his life, so he must have the doctor gene. YEAH RIGHT. My mothers an administrative assistant and I am an aspiring doctor, going into my junior year of pre med, and I have a 3.56 gpa, am member of phi theta kappa, and I absolutely had no experience with medicine at all.
 
Originally posted by troache
Just because she is only 17 years old does not mean that she is not mature enough to make a college wise decision. Just because you are older does not make you smarter, and just because your a teenager does not make you dumber than people who are older than you. I was 17 when I was in my first year of college. I also wondered if I should do nursing or med school. I chose med school. When you said that she is not experienced enough with medicine to make that decision, you were so WRONG. You do not have to have medical experience to want to become a nurse or a doctor. I am 19 years old and I think that I am smart beyond my years, because what you said was very ingnorant for your 27 years of age. Just because she's in high school does not mean that she cannot make a wise decision. Why would you tell her to go to college and then figure it out. What a waste of time and money. Just because you didnt know what you were doing doesnt mean that she doesnt know what she is doing. And your background does not matter either. Who says that a doctors son will make it in med school. His fathers a doctor, he's been around medicine all his life, so he must have the doctor gene. YEAH RIGHT. My mothers an administrative assistant and I am an aspiring doctor, going into my junior year of pre med, and I have a 3.56 gpa, am member of phi theta kappa, and I absolutely had no experience with medicine at all.

I think you may be refering to my post, not painres's.

Until you grow up, you're not going to fully understand how clueless children are. Something important you need to learn is that being smart does not equal being wise. You may be smart, but your wisdom is lacking (your writing skills as well). The wise thing for a 17 year old to do, in this case, is keep her options open as long as she can, and not commit to anything except getting a good education. One that will prepare her for any career. If you don't see that, you really have no business advising anyone on anything so important as this. I don't think you realize how common it is for educated people to change their mind about what they want to do in life. That is why it is important people give themselves time to figure out what they want. College is a great place to do this.
 
I was not advising her to not go to college. Also, being wise has nothing to do with age. This is just a message forum, not English class. I think my writing skills are just as good as yours. As long as my English skills are superb to the more important half. What I was trying to say was that older people almost always tend to under estimate the younger people. Yes college is the place to figure out what is right for you. No, I was not talking to POWERMD. I was responding to PAINRES who said that young teenagers cannot possibly Know what they want out of life. Obviously your reading skills are lacking. If I fall in love at the age of 16, does that mean that I don't know what love is because of my age, no it does not. That was the point that I was trying to make. I did not tell her not to go to college. If you want to be completely age biased against the latter, fine. I donot believe in age discrimination. Nobody knows what trials and tribulations this girl has been through in her life. I am wise enough to know that people will try to bring you down because they think your "to young". My wisdom is not lacking. Everyone has their own definition of being wise and having wisdom. Your social and economic background plays apart of who you are as a person. You have no idea where I come from. A person who is from the gutter may have wisdom of the streets. That wisdom might be just enough to bring any person down. But of course, you wouldn't know anything about that. One more thing, You should not be talking about anybodys writing skills, when yours is just as bad(Or just as good).
 
Troache, thanks for responding to my post. I especially like the way you mixed in things from powermds post in your response to me. As for looking down on people because they are too young, that it not what we are trying to say. I was merely saying that the individual in question should go to college and do her nursing and med school pre reqs and see how she feels at that point. Im glad that at the age of 19 you know what being a doctor is really about. Since you know so much about being a physician and what its really like, have you considered doing lectures to other teenagers? Im sure they would be interested in your views, especially considering that you have no experience with medicine. I think since you are so well versed in the trials and tribulations of being a doc you definitely dont need any experience before applying to med school, and, please make sure that you mention that in your interviews so they will know how smart beyond your years you are. And why do you feel the need to post your mediocre stats? :rolleyes:
 
Hi Hillary,
I do not think that RN vs. MD is a valid comparison. Before I get flamed, let me just say that I am both an RN with a BSN and a PA with an MPAS. Registered nursing (as an RN, not NP) is an entry level profession. Not meaning that it is not fulfilling and professional, but meaning that you can get there with one step from high school. Medical school, NP school, and PA school are secondary careers, after taking the first step. In terms of medical school, the first step is a bachelor's degree in anything, as long as you get the prerequisites you need. NP school requires a bachelor's degree in nursing. PA school requires significant medical experience and/or a bachelor's degree in most cases. The choice between the three of them is a personal one. Each offer advantages. I would be glad to discuss reasons for my choice in another post if anyone is interested.
So, to make a short answer long, if you are sure you want to work in the medical field, get the nursing bachelor's degree. You can do anything with it if you decide you want to go further. It is also a very lucrative profession in case you wish to go no further. I always tell prospective students who are certain they want to go into some aspect of advanced patient care, to get the BSN. I did it, and it has worked for me. It has helped me in my relationships with the floor nurses I work with and it helped me to make some cash while in PA school. IMHO, a pre-med bachelor's degree serves little purpose for you other than knowledge, if you decide against going on to med school. If you go that route, be sure you want to go to med school first. If not, you will be stuck as a research tech making 20k a year. That is what my wife was stuck doing until making the choice to go to PA school. Hope this is helpful. Good luck.
P
 
I did not get you to mixed up, he got himself mixed up. You misunderstood me or I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that a person had to have medical experience before they enter undergrad. Also my stats are not mediocre. The average person who applys to med school has a science gpa of 3.4. According to suny at buffalo. My science gpa is a 3.6 which is not bad at all. Overall my gpa is a 3.566. Whats yours a 3.9. You are so unrealistic. I know people who wish their gpa was as high as mine. And phi theta kappa is a national honor society in colleges and universities across the usa, for people who have acheived a gpa of 3.7 and never went below a 3.2. That does not seem mediocre to me or probably anyone else on this forum. I do plenty of volunteer work during the summer and I would be more than happy to tell the interviewers about my extracurriculur activities. Since you are so smart, why would you bash me when I was just stating an opinion about age discrimination. You donot know anything about my life. And I can guarantee you that where I come from, you wouldn't even be able to survive 5 minutes. You should not act so immature. Just take a deep breathe and realize that you should not be arguing with a 19 year old. Its alright, I will dismiss your immaturity. Cheer up, its just a message forum, and you don't have to go so hard. Calm down and enough with the sarcasm. You are probably just like these politicians. Always putting someone else down and describing youth as "mediocre" or "primitive". When they are just about the same. It takes one to know one.

P.S: Before you call out someone for being mediocre, check your spelling skills. You should be busy with your husband and kids or something. Not picking on a 19 year old on a message forum.
 
You missed my point troache, you are too busy telling yourself how smart you are to see that doing well in school does not mean that you know what medicine is all about. You need to go out and see whats really going on in medicine before you make the decision. I also find it funny that you attack my spelling, as I did not make any comments about your spelling. Interesting tactic. That aside, there was no reason for you to mention your stats, as they do not prove anything in relation to medicine, and no one was even qustioning you, and it has nothing to do with the OPs topic. Notice I did not say that your stats sucked, I said that they were mediocre in relation to medical students, which they are. Why do you metion that I wouldnt last 5 min where you grew up? Is that important in this discussion? And I dont consider trying to help out someone with the experience I gained going through the process immature. Good luck in you career.
 
Okay painres, I am going to put water under the bridge and say that you are right. I brought my stats up because I felt like you were trying to say that I was dumb. I thought about it and I agree that I am not that mature yet and yes "teenagers think they know everything". I said that you would not be able to survive in my hood because I was trying to say that you didn't know me. Anyone who lives in the gutter understands why I brought that up. But anyway I shouldn't be arguing with you because YES you are older and have more experience than me and I should listen to what people have to say for a change. I am going to say that I am sorry. I hate making enemies. Please give me some credit for admitting that I was wrong and Very immature.
 
Troache, Im glad you finally realized that I was just trying to help the girl make the decision, and was not putting her down, or you for that matter. If you are from a tough area, and had a rough upbringing thats good, it will provide you with some extra insight along the way. And now I cant really call you immature as you have actually considered what I said....So good luck to you in your career.
 
Hi there,

If I could go back into time when I just graduated high school and was starting off college, I would consider pharmacy school. Why pharmacy? Well, there is a huge demand for pharmacists, contributed largely by the graying Babyboomers, they being more dependent on medications to manage their illnesses, and the dominant role HMO's are now playing in the health care system. Here are some reasons why pharmacy should be considered:

1. Very flexible: You can work in retail pharmacies, hospitals as clinical pharmacists, private industry (pharmaceutical and biotech companies) as scientists, managed health care system, and government agencies.

2. Shorter time spent in school than med school: If you want to pursue a doctorate in pharmacy (PharmD), most pharmacy schools do not require that you have a bachelors degree. You can go to college for two years to fulfill the pre-pharmacy prerequisites and apply to pharmacy school. So, the shortest time spent in college is 5 years (2 years of undergrad and 3 years for your PharmD-pharmacy schools may either offer a 3 or 4 year program) but can go as long as 9 years or more (4 years of undergrad, 4 years for your PharmD, and 1 year of residency).

3. Greater economic returns: Since there is shortage of pharmacists, they are paid pretty well. I don't know about how much they are paid in other parts of the country, but a retail pharmacist graduating from UCSF and working in the Bay Area, on average, is paid $100,000 per year! However, if you want to go to UCSF, you will most likely have to take the 8 year route. But you can be a doctor of pharmcy at 25 or 26. How cool is that! Plus, most pharmcists, especially for those working in retail, work regular hours, from 9-5, not like nurses and doctors.

4. Greater job satisfaction: When I recently interviewed at UCSF, I asked a resident clinical pharmcist, who is originally from Florida, if she loved her job. She said that she wakes up every morning and can hardly believe what a great career she has. She is less than 30 years old, and yet she is a doctor who has a good wage (after she is finished with her residency, of course), commands the respect of the hospital staff, including the MD's, and has a bright career path. Other pharmacists I met shared her sentiment about their profession.

I'm 27 and will be starting pharmacy school this fall, so you can say that I'm a little biased. But, if I was 17 and knew that pharmacy school even existed, I would've gone to a community college for two years, and applied to pharmacy school. Like you, I want a personal life and don't want to work to the bone like some MD's do. I believe that pharmacy may offer you a good alternative, a balanced personal and professional life. Good luck.
 
To the first poster:

1. Only you can make the decision whether or not to do Medicine or Nursing.

2. It sounds to me that you probably shouldn't enter Med - because to go through that very tough period you need to be really really sure you really want to be an MD



To lizzied
:

1. You are quite wrong.

The President of the SCCM is Timothy G. Buchman, MD, PhD, FACS, FCCM.
No nurse has ever been president. This is not to say that nurses are not important.
It is just that this society, like any medical society, reflects medical practice. And in practice, the leader in all medical institutions and environments is the physician. As is rightful - they are the professionals of medicine, extensively trained in their field.

Likewise, I'm sure the Presidents of all the various Nursing societies are nurses. That is analogously rightful - nurses are the professionals when it comes to nursing, and should lead their respective organizations.



About the tired rhetoric you discharged in md_student's direction:


I have always been amused by nurses who resort to this sort of talk. The classic retort to the young physician who is perceived as not giving nurses "enough respect" is that these nurses can teach him a thing or two about putting in IVs, defibrilation, ACLS pathways etc.

SO WHAT??!

If your're a 40 year old nurse who's had experience with codes, well of course you can tell a newly graduated intern the patient needs epi. And if you're an RRT who's been at it for 20 years, then duh of course you could probably intubate faster then a fourth year medical student.

This just completely misses the point. To use your rhetoric, when was the last time you saw an RN tell an "age-matched" MD how to properly remove a posterior fossa brain tumour? You think you could manage it? Well no - because that's not your job, what you were trained for.

Just because you know how to apply a couple of paddles to a chest better than a student doctor (after you've done it for years) does not make you a "genius".

And just because, after you've been at it for years, you know one or two emergency pathways better than a fresh graduate MD (who by the way has had to go through hundreds) doesn't mean that what you do is intellectually more demanding than what he is going to be doing for the rest of his life.

When md_student said that nursing requires hardly any intellectual challenge, he was generally correct. You need a lot of skill in the profession, but there is limited cognitive challenge. Cognitive inputs in patient care are generally required at the diagnosis and complex management stages - which is done by the MD, not the RN. Of course an RN who wanted a more intellectually challenging career could probably get it, from entering academia and doing research for example.

This DOES NOT MEAN nursing is unimportant - nursing is simply crucial for patient care. I'm just saying don't make it out to be something it is not. Young people who are making their career choices need accurate information
 
Perhaps you could start down the common path for both nursing and medicine? I am an MD (sort of, I graduated a week ago!), and my wife is an NP. We both started out as "pre-med" and both graduated with BS degrees in biology-chemistry. I went to medical school and she went back to complete her BSN. You must remember, a "pre-med" major is SOOOO broad that it should not be labeled "pre-med". More appropriately, it should be labeled "pre-professional". With the particular degree that my wife and I graduated with, you can do medicine, nursing, veterinary medicine, dentistry, research, pharmacy.....on and on. Of course, my wife had to go back an extra year to complete here BSN, and a couple more years to get her MSN. So if you are not sure, perhaps start as a "pre-med". If your grades are stellar and you want to keep studying crazy hard, then apply to medical school. Or if you are just tired of studying, don't want to go to 8 more years of school/residency but still want to work in the health care field, then try nursing. AND I will also tell you, there are many nurses out there with the intellect (like my wife) and drive to be doctors, but other things take priority over going to medical school, such as having children and so on. Do what is best for you, what you love, and that will be the best decision for you! Good luck!
 
Just to add into the mix of possible professions in the health care...there is Clinical Laboratory Scientist. (aka "Med Tech").
Med techs know *a lot* about laboratory medicine...what kinds of chemistries mean what, what kinds of different pathology looks like from a laboratory stand point.

If you like science (and, in particular, science over direct patient care)--look at CLS.
 
Great Thread everyone!

My mom has advanced degrees in nursing so I can certaily relate to how special they are. And on at least 2 occasions, I have a nurse to thank for my still being here ( Doctors at Duke of all places screwed up so bad I almost died a few years back)
 
If I could go back in time I would get my BSN rather than the bachelors degree that I had gotten. I obtained my nursing because I couldn't do anything with the degree I had. Plus I needed the pay of being a nurse to get me through graduate school.

My degree is in Psychology. Unless you go to graduate school you can't do anything with it. But I didn't have the funds to continue to graduate school. And at that time the Clinical psy programs were extremely competitive. They would receive like 1000 applications and only have 12-15 slots to fill.

When I had received my nursing degree and was an RN I was going to go into a clinical psychology program. But then decided that becoming an NP would actually give me more flexibility.

Back to the original question. I would get my BSN and go ahead and take the extra sciences. THat way if I decided to go to medical school I would be ready. Course that is if I could go back in time. ;)

AxisNP
 
Originally posted by lizzied2003
Any former or current nurse who read that post should be offended. I am extremely offended by your above remarks in that in my years as a critical care nurse and now as an advanced practice nurse I have met so many people who were intellectually outstanding. As you move along your career path I assure you , you will come across docs who are absolute bone heads and nurses who demonstrate near genius. that's just life.

Step down a few notches and look at the big picture...

I am hoping that when you begin your career in medicine you will bear witness to a nurse who bails you butt out of trouble the middle of the nite.

I am hoping that when you take Advanced Cardiac life support you will look and notice that in most instances it will be a nurse teaching you how to defibrillate.

I am hoping that when you are at a code the lowly respiratory therapist intubates because they will know airway management better than you.

I am hoping that when you patient is going down the crapper and you don't know what the hell to do it will be nurse who turns to you and says 'perhaps you should start some dopamine or give some cardizem'. I assure you, you will not even know how to infuse it.


I am hoping that when you become an attending that you realize that 2 am phone call to tell you that your patient is having an acute Inferior wall MI will probably come from a nurse.

I am hoping that you realize that not everyone has been blessed with the directive, finances, or ability to pursue medical school. I have met several physicians that have made it this far only because they were able to get through the process of applying.

Nurses who choose to be are continuously intellectually challenged. There is not another profession where day after day you assume such responsiblity. I agree with what you were trying to say to the first poster but I feel that you reduced the nursing profession to merely those who blindlessly follow orders. You could not have been farther from the truth.



By the way the Society for Critical Care Medicine (SCOM)...the president??? She's a nurse.

thanks for listening. OP__good luck no matter what you do. sorry to use your post as a sounding board. thanks.



BRAVO!!!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
Top