Medical students with a criminal record.....

Started by kittywampus
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kittywampus

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I'm curious and hopefully some people will post. For those of you who are now in medical school who had criminal records that showed up on your background checks (not as a minor), want to post and let those who may be concerned about their chances know its still possible? Or if you know someone who has a record and is in school, residency, practice, please share. And of those of you who did get here with a record, how has your placement at hospital rotations during medical school gone and potential to do residency been affected, if at all?

It would be nice to know what the deal breakers are, and what isn't. There are the stories of the guy who got a dui while sleeping in his car in a parking lot (yup, keys in the car, motor not even running, they can get you for dui). Of the doctors with 3 dui's out there still practicing. Of the guy's who performed surgery under the influence and lost their license for a year but get it back, or just had some restrictions. Of the people with drug charges earlier in life who got their act's together and made a career in medicine happen. How about tax related crimes? Or violent crimes that were only misdemeanor's? Or petty theft for shoplifting when you were 18 or something.

According to the Florida DOH: "Effective July 1, 2009, section 456.0635, Florida Statutes, provides that health care boards or the department shall refuse to issue a license, certificate or registration and shall refuse to admit a candidate for examination if the applicant has been:

· Convicted of, or entered a plea of guilty or nolo contendere to, regardless of adjudication, a felony under chapter 409, chapter 817, chapter 893, 21 U.S.C. ss. 801-970, or 42 U.S.C. ss. 1395-1396, unless the sentence and any subsequent period of probation for such conviction or pleas ended more than 15 years prior to the date of the application.

Some states also use the term "crimes of moral turpitude" referring to a misdemeanor charge that would make you ineligible for licensure as well. So, if you have something good to contribute, please, contribute and let others know its possible for them. And if your just going to post some nonsense, take a deep breath and keep your rude negativity to yourself. Thanks

At least if medical school doesn't work out, I could still be president. We need a new republican candidate to stand out in the crowd. (see link below)

http://articles.cnn.com/2000-11-02/...-w-bush-kennebunkport-police_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS
 
It is all variable.
Your best bet is to talk to a lawyer, or create a dummy email account, describe your situation in a very forthright and polite way, and email admissions folks at several different medical schools.

If you have a felony, no chance.

As for DUI, one could be overcome, but not two.

Other stuff: if it is something like getting caught with pot, peeing in public, or something like that, or just one Dui you COULD still be fine. I know a non trad who applied to med school in his early 30s, and he had a pot possession conviction from when he was 24, and a DUI from when he was 28, and he still got in.

If you have something, here are the factors that come into play:

1. Severity of offense(s)
2. How long ago it was/they were (if it was recent, you may want to take some time off and do volunteer work with blind lepers in uzbekistan or something)
3. Your attitude toward your offense(s) - VERY IMPORTANT. You will be asked about this, and it is absolutely crucial that you are forthright, that you take complete responsibility, and do not attempt to minimize or rationalize what happened. Say that you are deeply ashamed and remorseful, that you have no explanation as there couldnt ever be one for whatever it was you did, and that you continue to strive for excellence and demonstrate by your actions that this is in your past and never happening again. Also, in an interview situation, address the matter when asked, but don't dwell on it, don't get into detailed explanations. Admit, express regret, look to future, transition to different topic.
4. That you have a lot of other strong positives in your favor, especially good references from people who know you and recommend you based on both intellect and character.



kittywampus said:
I'm curious and hopefully some people will post. For those of you who are now in medical school who had criminal records that showed up on your background checks (not as a minor), want to post and let those who may be concerned about their chances know its still possible? Or if you know someone who has a record and is in school, residency, practice, please share. And of those of you who did get here with a record, how has your placement at hospital rotations during medical school gone and potential to do residency been affected, if at all?

It would be nice to know what the deal breakers are, and what isn't. There are the stories of the guy who got a dui while sleeping in his car in a parking lot (yup, keys in the car, motor not even running, they can get you for dui). Of the doctors with 3 dui's out there still practicing. Of the guy's who performed surgery under the influence and lost their license for a year but get it back, or just had some restrictions. Of the people with drug charges earlier in life who got their act's together and made a career in medicine happen. How about tax related crimes? Or violent crimes that were only misdemeanor's? Or petty theft for shoplifting when you were 18 or something.

According to the Florida DOH: "Effective July 1, 2009, section 456.0635, Florida Statutes, provides that health care boards or the department shall refuse to issue a license, certificate or registration and shall refuse to admit a candidate for examination if the applicant has been:

· Convicted of, or entered a plea of guilty or nolo contendere to, regardless of adjudication, a felony under chapter 409, chapter 817, chapter 893, 21 U.S.C. ss. 801-970, or 42 U.S.C. ss. 1395-1396, unless the sentence and any subsequent period of probation for such conviction or pleas ended more than 15 years prior to the date of the application.

Some states also use the term "crimes of moral turpitude" referring to a misdemeanor charge that would make you ineligible for licensure as well. So, if you have something good to contribute, please, contribute and let others know its possible for them. And if your just going to post some nonsense, take a deep breath and keep your rude negativity to yourself. Thanks

At least if medical school doesn't work out, I could still be president. We need a new republican candidate to stand out in the crowd. (see link below)

http://articles.cnn.com/2000-11-02/...-w-bush-kennebunkport-police_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS
Click to expand...
 
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doxycycline said:
so u got a dwi and now ur worried about ur chances?
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Thank you for not contributing anything useful to the conversation I was attempting to start..... 🙄

And yes to your first question but no to your second.......I am not worried. But I used to be, and I know a lot of people still are. I was in a different thread and just thought I'd make a thread and see if there were any medical students with the balls to speak out about their criminal record and how they overcame it and were successful in medicine.

It will have been 7 years ago when I do finally apply to medical school, it is (and still will be) my only arrest, and I was a stupid ignorant collage kid who made the decision to drink and drive. If anything, I'm a better person today because of the experiences of my past. I've contacted my states medical board, and contacted medical schools in my state. It's not a game changer, although it would have been 7 years ago if I'd tried then. But since that time, I've been working in medicine as a clinical laboratory scientist, I have direct contact with patients on a regular basis, I volunteer through local high schools hopefully letting people know some of the consequences their actions might have, I got married, have a child, etc etc..... The point is, people can make a mistake, learn from it, and do better. And I believe medical school admissions committee's will see that in some students. Will it be difficult? Yes....Is it impossible? No
 
DrArete said:
It is all variable.
Your best bet is to talk to a lawyer, or create a dummy email account, describe your situation in a very forthright and polite way, and email admissions folks at several different medical schools.

If you have a felony, no chance.

As for DUI, one could be overcome, but not two.

If you have something, here are the factors that come into play:

1. Severity of offense(s)
2. How long ago it was/they were
3. Your attitude toward your offense(s) - VERY IMPORTANT.
4. That you have a lot of other strong positives in your favor.
Click to expand...

I just want to say thank you very much for your contributation to this thread. Any pre-med wanna be who reads this will have a very clear concise breakdown of what they need to plan next should they be involved in something criminally related. Best bet though: DONT DO ANYTHING TO JEPERDIZE YOUR FUTURE!

I bolded #3 up there for a point though, because it is probably one of the most important of all. When I got my DUI and went through all of the court required classes and such, the vast majority of the people there all blamed their situations of everyone and everything except for themselves. Nobody is to blame but yourself, and when people act like it's not their fault that they were "caught" all it does it make you look stupid and ignorant.
 
OP from the way your first post sounded I thought u got the dwi last week and were applying now.. as far as 7 years ago as long as there is no other arrests i dont see how that could keep you out.. everyones done something stupid before (i.e. drank a little too much and drove).. unfortunately you got caught.

its sad that i know classmates that still drink and drive.."its only down the block.. a straight ride." idiots... besides the risk of getting the boot from school and/or ending up not matching or being able to get licensed.. if you hit someone your going down for 10-20. all for one stupid night your life can change like that. not worth it at all IMO .. and im not lecturing you on this im just speaking my mind because this is actually a pretty recent convo I had with a classmate.
 
I have a few things (legal and addiction recovery) that I'll need to disclose if I want to get a license after I finish MD/PhD.

So, they look at these case-by-case in most states (including felony offenses, which is what that original question refers to in FL licensing law), and those are the offenses that they consider serious enough to consider in licensing (have looked at a lot of licensing law lately). The ones they don't like to see are crimes against children or the elderly, drug crimes if you are going into pain management, and medically-related misdemeanors or felonies. PM me if you want to talk more or have questions about licensing law. I have a background in law and corrections and still know quite a few lawyers dealing with this type of thing.
 
doxycycline said:
OP from the way your first post sounded I thought u got the dwi last week and were applying now.. as far as 7 years ago as long as there is no other arrests i dont see how that could keep you out.. everyones done something stupid before (i.e. drank a little too much and drove).. unfortunately you got caught.

its sad that i know classmates that still drink and drive.."its only down the block.. a straight ride." idiots... besides the risk of getting the boot from school and/or ending up not matching or being able to get licensed.. if you hit someone your going down for 10-20. all for one stupid night your life can change like that. not worth it at all IMO .. and im not lecturing you on this im just speaking my mind because this is actually a pretty recent convo I had with a classmate.
Click to expand...

This is just ridiculous to me....I mean it really is pathetic. Anyone who went though everything it takes to become a medical student, who potentially is willing to throw all of that away for one nights drinking, is just an idiot, plan and simple. I'm still fighting a hard battle myself even with my record from 7 years ago, but think of how that's going to look, getting a DUI while your in medical school? How could you right that one off as youthful indiscretions when going in front of the board later on, or applying to residency spots? In Florida, if you get in a wreck, no matter what, it is a felony if your under the influence. Misdemeanor if your just driving (unless it‘s your 3rd offense), felony if you get in a wreck, much worse felony if the wreck involves bodily harm. A guy I know who tried to be "responsible" about his drinking and driving (yeah, if that isn't an oxymoron I don't know what is) was charged with a felony dui because he had 2 beers, left the bar to go home, was rear ended at the stop sign when leaving the bar. There was a cop in the area who got there quick. The guy that hit him was wasted, but the cop asked my friend if he had anything to drink as well, he said yes, willingly blew, and was at .081..... They had no leniency with him, just put him right into handcuffs and his life was pretty much screwed from then on. A felony, especially a felony that involves drugs or alcohol, pretty much is a ticket to never seeing the inside of a hospital as anyone but a patient/visitor. Don't risk it people, it just isn't worth it. Drink only if there is no chance that your going to end up behind the wheel. Period.
 
Didn't have a chance to read all of the replies! So, if they haven't mentioned this, here is an important thing to consider when applying to med school with tainted record: DISCLOSE EVERYTHING IN YOUR AMCAS!!! I mean, everything! If you do, some med schools will forgive you. However, if you don't, none of them will!!
 
This has been the most informative and hopefully accurate threads regarding DUI's and medical school acceptance.

kittywampus said:
...but think of how that's going to look, getting a DUI while your in medical school? How could you right that one off as youthful indiscretions when going in front of the board later on, or applying to residency spots? In Florida, if you get in a wreck, no matter what, it is a felony if your under the influence. [/U][/I][/B]
Click to expand...

I am a first year medical student, and I stupidly crashed my vehicle and received a DUI on the celebratory night of my first med school exam! It did not happen in Florida fortunately. I sure hope this doesn't ruin my chances to match into a residency or to obtain licensure. My school has no policy of disclosure, and I have chosen not to bring it up to school officials. I intend to fulfill the requirements of my ARD and seek expungement. I can tell you that the hours I spent in the cell was punishment enough and I will never drink & drive again.

I am ridden with anxiety and humiliation as to my own stupidity that night. I didn't spend years of work just to flush it down the toilet for a few drinks. It will have only been 3 years since the arrest when I am applying for a residency match. Do you think this will hurt my chances at matching to a top choice residency? What can I expect when I apply for licensure in Florida or anywhere?

Someone who has received a DUI in med school or knows someone who has would be most helpful to me.
 
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I'm curious and hopefully some people will post.
hu9i.jpg
 
You should check your state's laws and see if you could get your arrest expunged. I know in my state, you can get an arrest for nonviolent misdemeanors expunged after 2 years if you keep a clean record. Also, according to my state laws, if an expungement is granted, you can legally deny ever being arrested. Expungement laws exist for a reason. You've obviously learned from your mistake.

Nowadays, seems like the only guaranteed way to stay out of trouble while drinking at the bar is to take a taxi home. Even if you make the smart decision to leave your keys in your pocket and walk home, you can still be arrested for public intoxication (happened to me last year...). Thought I had made the smart decision to walk half a mile home, but apparently I hadn't, seeing that a cop arrested me for PI for "having an odor of alcohol on my breath". How do you leave a bar without an odor of alcohol on your breath? Still baffles me. So, even if you make the smart decision not to drive, remember you can still be arrested for PI. Take a taxi!
 
I actually have a misdemeanor marijuana possession arrest from about 15 years ago. I was at a party and bought ten bucks worth of pot while being observed by the police. I plead no contest, and the judge withheld adjudication. It didn't even show up on my AMCAS background check, but I knew it happened, so I included it on my AMCAS and AACOMAS applications this year for full disclosure. It came up briefly in ONE of my interviews, and the school accepted me. It wasn't a big deal.... but had I lied about it... it could have been.
 
if the dui is expunged and you have checked with the background check service that they have expunged the record too...should you still disclose it on amcas?
 
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All that seems to matter is whether or not you got caught. Drunk driving and drug use is rampant in medical school and residency. People are in their 20s and these are the kind of irresponsible things people in their 20s do. I have seen numerous medical students and residents drive while heavily intoxicated. I have seen them drink while driving. Smoke pot while driving. I know of (but have not seen) people selling harder drugs to classmates. I don't know of any of these people getting caught; however. It's ridiculous.

Medical schools for the most part don't care about DUIs in your distant past (young people don't seem to understand that old people were once young too and many did equally stupid ****). If they are concerned you are reckless and will continue to break the law and potentially get thrown in jail and not be able to finish, they may not admit you. But they don't seem to concerned, because a very big number of these kind of people slip through, anecdotally.
 
psychme said:
if the dui is expunged and you have checked with the background check service that they have expunged the record too...should you still disclose it on amcas?
Click to expand...

If you have an order directing expungement signed by a judge it shouldn't matter what shows up on a background check - but make sure you read the instructions very carefully when you are asked to disclose. In general, what trips people up is they get deferred adjudication and then fail to disclose because they don't realize that deferred adjudication is not equivalent to expungement. In Texas, deferred adjudication often qualifies you for expungement, but then the onus is on you to initiate that process and see it through to completion. However, once you have that signed order from the judge (at least according to law in my state) you are no longer under any obligation to disclose in any circumstance. Below I'll copy/paste a question from a secondary application to demonstrate what I'm talking about (emphasis added):

  1. Check here if you have ever had a misdemeanor or felony charge. In the interest of full disclosure, please expound on ANY felonies and/or misdemeanors. If in doubt as to whether an offense should be disclosed because you believe the charge to be irrelevant or expunged, it is better to disclose the offense on the application. Unless an order of expunction has been issued by the court and you have documents to that effect, an applicant may not claim expunction as an excuse for non-disclosure. Avoid some of the common excuses the committee has heard from people who fail to disclose, such as:
  • My attorney told me I didn't have to disclose the criminal conduct or disciplinary actions.
  • I didn't think the prior conduct had anything to do with the profession.
  • I didn't think the disciplinary action, arrest, charges or convictions was still on my record.
  • I didn't think it was subject to disclosure because I received a deferred sentence/judgment.

Please be advised that a false response may be grounds for denial. Use the space below to briefly explain:
Click to expand...

As you can see, even under these very stringent terms, expungement would still be a valid reason not to disclose, provided you have official court documents that demonstrate it.
 
Getting a DUI won't keep you out, but it does make certain things (licensing, DEA #, etc) more painful/convoluted.

If it's expunged, deny it. If the school makes a big deal of it, tell them your lawyer advised you not to disclose the offense - schools ARE aware that this advice is given, so even if they do find out often times the non-disclosure isn't an issue.
 
I would think two things: DO NOT LIE. If they catch someone on a lie, even if it was for some stupid crime (shoplifting, etc) and you "omitted" the fact and the school/Medical Board found it on their own - you are screwed. It is better to admit to the crimes - and then see how the school reacts. Honesty is a positive character trait that many admire.

Second: Depends on the state. Each state has their own medical board with different rules and regulations. Find out what states you would like to practice in and contact them - but I would not give out my name while doing this.
 
I would think medical schools would also consider how long its been since the incident...?

Personally, I had a legal run in with a fake ID when I was a freshmen in college...back in early 2000s. I'll be about 10+ years removed from my lone incident with the law by the time I apply. I was given youthful offenders status, adjudication withheld (no conviction) and the record was sealed. Should I still report this?
 
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Smurf4halp said:
Necrobumping this. What if said shoplifting charge was dismissed (so arrest is on record but no conviction)? Legally one can say "no"to the conviction on AMCAS, but where would one disclose it if one wishes to?
Click to expand...
On the secondary if they ask if you have been charged with a crime.
 
In my state, by statute, anyone convicted of a drug offense (including DWI) is automatically ineligible to become board certified. All of the medical schools around here won't let anyone in with a drug-related offense. Period. I know it's different in other parts of the country.

As for being arrested but not convicted... it gets tricky.
 
Smurf4halp said:
Necrobumping this. What if said shoplifting charge was dismissed (so arrest is on record but no conviction)? Legally one can say "no"to the conviction on AMCAS, but where would one disclose it if one wishes to?
Click to expand...

This is tricky. I would go on how questions are worded, do they say "Have you ever been charged?" "Have you ever plead in a charge?" or do they say "Have you ever been arrested?".
 
Charged/arrested and prosecuted are different in my head. Might help to talk to someone who knows a bit more about the laws in your state.
 
"I'm curious and hopefully some people will post. For those of you who are now in medical school who had criminal records that showed up on your background checks (not as a minor), want to post and let those who may be concerned about their chances know its still possible? Or if you know someone who has a record and is in school, residency, practice, please share. And of those of you who did get here with a record, how has your placement at hospital rotations during medical school gone and potential to do residency been affected, if at all?

It would be nice to know what the deal breakers are, and what isn't. There are the stories of the guy who got a dui while sleeping in his car in a parking lot (yup, keys in the car, motor not even running, they can get you for dui). Of the doctors with 3 dui's out there still practicing. Of the guy's who performed surgery under the influence and lost their license for a year but get it back, or just had some restrictions. Of the people with drug charges earlier in life who got their act's together and made a career in medicine happen. How about tax related crimes? Or violent crimes that were only misdemeanor's? Or petty theft for shoplifting when you were 18 or something."

I, like the OP, have also applied with an old DWI on my application, and would like some anecdotal stories of people with criminal backgrounds who got accepted to medical school.

I don't want advice as to whether or not to disclose my offense (I already did), advice about getting it expunged (in the process of being done), or moral condemnations.
 
Do you have any updates? I am applying to podiatry school with a recent misdemeanor charge of petit theft. I am wondering what my chances are of getting in
 
agraham said:
Do you have any updates? I am applying to podiatry school with a recent misdemeanor charge of petit theft. I am wondering what my chances are of getting in
Click to expand...

LizzyM said:
I'd say your chances are slim to none. No one wants a thief (or a cheater) in their school.
Click to expand...

...as usual, SDN's armchair judge and jury is jumping to conclusions. Your chances are not necessarily "slim to none." I've gotten into 4 medical schools with a petit larceny charge. I don't know how competitive podiatry school is in comparison, but I invite you to read my story and ignore the haters.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...medical-school-encouraging-anecdotes.1173018/
 
Disposable_Acct said:
...as usual, SDN's armchair judge and jury is jumping to conclusions. Your chances are not necessarily "slim to none." I've gotten into 4 medical schools with a petit larceny charge. I don't know how competitive podiatry school is in comparison, but I invite you to read my story and ignore the haters.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...medical-school-encouraging-anecdotes.1173018/
Click to expand...
this is a theft situation that could be described as a "joke gone wrong." As far as the legal details go, I was charged, but not convicted, and instead placed on probation for community service until it is dismissed. In fact, I am still [technically] on probation, though everything is all sorted out.
Click to expand...

so in the end, you will have been charged but never convicted. Every story is different. I have not seen adcoms go easy on applicants who were guilty of theft but the circumstances were different (e.g. stealing expensive electronics from other students)
 
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LizzyM said:
so in the end, you will have been charged but never convicted. Every story is different. I have not seen adcoms go easy on applicants who were guilty of theft but the circumstances were different (e.g. stealing expensive electronics from other students)
Click to expand...

Granted, I did not take anything from a person, per se, but rather from the community. However, the statement that I was charged and never convicted is a bit disingenuous, as I had a similar case disposition that indicated that I did in fact do it.
 
Disposable_Acct said:
Granted, I did not take anything from a person, per se, but rather from the community. However, the statement that I was charged and never convicted is a bit disingenuous, as I had a similar case disposition that indicated that I did in fact do it.
Click to expand...
Society set up the system of probation followed by a wiping clean of the slate to give first time offenders a second chance and to avoid ruining the rest of their life. Someone who did not get that and who was convicted is in a different kettle of fish.
 
LizzyM said:
Society set up the system of probation followed by a wiping clean of the slate to give first time offenders a second chance and to avoid ruining the rest of their life. Someone who did not get that and who was convicted is in a different kettle of fish.
Click to expand...

I get your point - the fact that I wasn't convicted indicates some measure of leniency on the part of the court. However, my final disposition of "a finding of facts sufficient" is bad enough that it is not expungeable and will remain with me forever.
 
ems2doc said:
In my state, by statute, anyone convicted of a drug offense (including DWI) is automatically ineligible to become board certified. All of the medical schools around here won't let anyone in with a drug-related offense. Period. I know it's different in other parts of the country.

As for being arrested but not convicted... it gets tricky.
Click to expand...
What state is this?
 
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