Medical Students with ADHD

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I think that if the symptoms aren't crazy bad there is no need for medication. I also think that you are always capable of going well in anything that you do as long as you put your mind to it. Of course it is nice not to have to struggle through it all without it if it really does work for you. A lot of people include me does not mix well with meds. The side effect killed me slowly and now I can function and is doing well with out it. I do have ADHD and have been able to work around the symptoms. Regardless it is always up to the person.

I realise this wasn't directed at me, but what side effects did you experience? Most of them are very different depending on the ailment you have from what I've heard, and since you were diagnosed/self-diagnosed in the same category... So far, as I've stated, I've only seen that it seems to make my working memory worse, and well, just feel bad, but that could be because I found out I'm mentally ill, not that this is going to stop me from meeting any goals in life, I hope.

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So a few questions on this topic.

1. Do people agree that stimulant medicines can improve the academic performance of those people who don't "need" them? It seems that there is a large cottage industry in undergrads of ritalin taking/selling etc around test times. I had a friend who would occasionally filch a ritalin from another friend if he had a busy day because he felt like he just got way more done when he was on the medication. If they do I think that there are serious bioethical questions surrounding their use. This is part of my frustration with people who claim to have ADD/ADHD without actually displaying any of the symptomatology of the disease as defined by our psychiatry colleagues. In other threads posters have essentially said that ADHD is what they want to make it.

2. If you have ADHD and needed medication to succeed in medical school are you a disabled physician? I think one might argue that you are. So you start med school and can't deal with the workload unless you are on a very specific medicine. What if at some point in the future you become intolerant of that medicine or have to start another medication that interferes with it. Do you give up practice? Because you've pretty much said that you can't be a medical student without medication so can you then go on to be a physician without it?

3. Patient safety issues. If you need stimulants to get through medical school what happens when you are a resident and forget to take your pill? Should you dutifully report to your chiefs/attendings that you are undermedicated and should be sent home for the day? Once again I draw the attention (so to speak) back to DSM criteria for ADD/ADHD. Would you want a family member cared for by a resident who is easily distracted, has trouble focusing, cannot stay on task and who forgot their medicine that day?
 
I will agree with you on that one. I remember day dreaming a lot more after I started on ADHD meds! I didn't really think about it until now. I still day dream a lot. What meds are you on BORNagainSTDENT?

Right now I am on 30mg of vyvanse, I used to take adderal but it would make me more irritated. I feel much better and more concentrated when I add .5 mg of xanax, it calms me down in general, but even if I'm not nervous it helps me focus on the little things. I spend alot of mental energy on stressing out. I am going to try an ssri again to replace the xanax and also find a new psychiatrist because mine really is not that great. Maybe I will drop the vyvanse down to 15mg.
 
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I haven't responded because I am an MS 0 (Start in Texas A&M). But I can comment on my undergrad experience.


Both schools offered acommodations to students with ADD, though I never felt that they were necessary. With my medication I was able to perform well enough without it. Personally I would not feel good about asking for accomodations. I can't speak for other people obviously, but I know that I really don't need them, and to take advantage of them just because would be unethical IMHO.


I felt the same about accomidations but was am starting to think I might consider them depending. what accomidations do they offer. Do medical schools offer accomidations? I heard that one can get more time on the MCAT, is this true?
 
1. Do people agree that stimulant medicines can improve the academic performance of those people who don't "need" them?

Yes, stimulants are stimulants -- they are meant to keep you both awake and focused. To what extent the effects are in people with normal attention spans that have no trouble focusing, I really have no idea. But I can tell you from my perspective, that dosing myself with just 5mg of Adderall has the 'I can lay hands on the sick' effect, while double-dosing has the 'I can walk on water' effect -- that is, I can practically teach the professor the subject, whereas when I am not medicated, I miss so many details and have to reread what I just read countless times to in the end, not be able to understand it nearly as well as someone else.

2. If you have ADHD and needed medication to succeed in medical school are you a disabled physician?

Yep.

What if at some point in the future you become intolerant of that medicine or have to start another medication that interferes with it. Do you give up practice?

Find another working medication.

Because you've pretty much said that you can't be a medical student without medication so can you then go on to be a physician without it?

I think this depends on your specialty. If you're a dermatologist (from what I know about them), or have any other profession that requires little if any attention to detail, then you should be fine. But if you're doing something like cardiothoric surgery or any type of surgery, you better take your medication, otherwise you should expect some serious lawsuits.

3. Patient safety issues. If you need stimulants to get through medical school what happens when you are a resident and forget to take your pill?

That's something you shouldn't forget to do.

Should you dutifully report to your chiefs/attendings that you are undermedicated and should be sent home for the day?

Hell no. Get your pills and get back to work.

Once again I draw the attention (so to speak) back to DSM criteria for ADD/ADHD. Would you want a family member cared for by a resident who is easily distracted, has trouble focusing, cannot stay on task and who forgot their medicine that day?

If they can't focus and are easily distracted, that's BECAUSE they forgot their medicine that day. And no, I wouldn't if that were the case.
 
Right now I am on 30mg of vyvanse, I used to take adderal but it would make me more irritated. I feel much better and more concentrated when I add .5 mg of xanax, it calms me down in general, but even if I'm not nervous it helps me focus on the little things. I spend alot of mental energy on stressing out. I am going to try an ssri again to replace the xanax and also find a new psychiatrist because mine really is not that great. Maybe I will drop the vyvanse down to 15mg.

I would highly recommend staying away from vyvanse from personal experience. I was taking 20mg dosages and I felt absolutely horrendous, and I looked absolutely demented. The effect was 12 hours long, and I wouldn't eat for days afterwards. I tried halving and fourthing the dosages, but the effect was only slightly worse and I still had severely decreased appetite and increased fatigue hours after it wore off. I even lost 10lbs in a week while forcing myself to eat.
 
You guys write really long posts. :(

[nothing relevant to add].
 
lol yeah, everybody loves ray got bad after the third season....
 
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I have never been diagnosed with ADD, but I am an especially spacey person, and have great difficulty paying attention to lectures. I take bupropion (Wellbutrin), and it really helps. Also, I rewatch lectures online, and take notes. I also draw cartoons about the lecture. It keeps me amused, and focused.

And I would definitely not tell ANYONE at my school about any psychological problems that they do not NEED to know about it. Even though people in the medical field should be more understanding, it is still very stigmatized.
 
After an entire educational career of thriving on my success without the use of medications I began to realize that med school was a whole new ball game. We start classes in the summer at my school and I found out the hard way that I needed to get tested. I'd be sitting there for 12+ hours and maybe get 1-2 hours of true studying done. I hated the idea of drugs and tried every other suggestions.

Most of my friends, the TAs and even my parents hinted that I should get tested. I got tested officially (which took a long friggin time for me) and met the criteria. I started medications the final week of summer semester and saw a huge leap in grades. Before the medications I had never gotten above a 78 on an exam despite tons of time invested. The week I started, I got an 88 on my regular exam and in the 90th percentile for NBME anatomy. The kicker was that I studied much less. I didn't catch myself staring at a wall for hours or meandering around or doing who knows what. I was able to go in, get what I wanted done and left. I never used the medication to pull all nighters or that crap. The biggest change was my decrease in coffee consumption from about 12-14 cups a day to 2 or 3.

I did have negative side effects. It killed my lifts in the gym. I often left dry heaving and with very bad tremors despite not taking the medication for 6 hours. I would also hit a wall after 3ish hours on the meds and would just have to lay down for a second and take a small dose if I wanted to make it through lecture.

I haven't had any stigma. Most people know I'm on it. I don't get more time or anything else. I don't think I'm some beautiful or unique snowflake. I don't abuse the drugs and actually look forward to days off of it. The only thing it does for me is give me that little extra bit of focus I need to get my study goals done for the day.
 
After an entire educational career of thriving on my success without the use of medications I began to realize that med school was a whole new ball game. We start classes in the summer at my school and I found out the hard way that I needed to get tested. I'd be sitting there for 12+ hours and maybe get 1-2 hours of true studying done. I hated the idea of drugs and tried every other suggestions.

Most of my friends, the TAs and even my parents hinted that I should get tested. I got tested officially (which took a long friggin time for me) and met the criteria. I started medications the final week of summer semester and saw a huge leap in grades. Before the medications I had never gotten above a 78 on an exam despite tons of time invested. The week I started, I got an 88 on my regular exam and in the 90th percentile for NBME anatomy. The kicker was that I studied much less. I didn't catch myself staring at a wall for hours or meandering around or doing who knows what. I was able to go in, get what I wanted done and left. I never used the medication to pull all nighters or that crap. The biggest change was my decrease in coffee consumption from about 12-14 cups a day to 2 or 3.

I did have negative side effects. It killed my lifts in the gym. I often left dry heaving and with very bad tremors despite not taking the medication for 6 hours. I would also hit a wall after 3ish hours on the meds and would just have to lay down for a second and take a small dose if I wanted to make it through lecture.

I haven't had any stigma. Most people know I'm on it. I don't get more time or anything else. I don't think I'm some beautiful or unique snowflake. I don't abuse the drugs and actually look forward to days off of it. The only thing it does for me is give me that little extra bit of focus I need to get my study goals done for the day.



cool story bro
 
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My inattentiveness involved everything, not just stuff I didn't like. I LOVE movies and I have never been able to sit through an entire movie without getting up and doing other things. I love videogames yet I'd pause them and get distracted doing something else. Hell, my ex had to turn the t.v. off during fun times because the flashing colors/lights distracted me too much.

I have no intention of taking the medications for anything besides having to sit down and focus on a task for a while. I'm happiest and learn the most when I'm running around and doing things.

I don't get high on the drugs. People that abuse the drugs to stay up all night or who snort them piss me off. The best way I can describe the effects for ME is that it removes all the white noise in my head. I constantly felt like there were 3 or 4 t.v. channels with crappy reception going on in my head and I could never focus on the one I wanted to see because the others were so friggin loud. This just reduces that. If I want to get distracted I'll still get distracted...like now. They aren't a miracle and they will NEVER substitute a good work ethic. I really really really hate taking these pills. I don't take it lightly when someone says they have ADD or ADHD when they obviously don't.

Trying hard and wanting to focus but truly not being able to is very frustrating. I truly wanted to focus. I did everything in my power to do it and still had difficulties. I then went through testing and had people HONESTLY fill out the sheets. If you don't have to take these things then don't.
 
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My inattentiveness involved everything, not just stuff I didn't like. I LOVE movies and I have never been able to sit through an entire movie without getting up and doing other things. I love videogames yet I'd pause them and get distracted doing something else. Hell, my ex had to turn the t.v. off during fun times because the flashing colors/lights distracted me too much.

I have no intention of taking the medications for anything besides having to sit down and focus on a task for a while. I'm happiest and learn the most when I'm running around and doing things.

I don't get high on the drugs. People that abuse the drugs to stay up all night or who snort them piss me off. The best way I can describe the effects for ME is that it removes all the white noise in my head. I constantly felt like there were 3 or 4 t.v. channels with crappy reception going on in my head and I could never focus on the one I wanted to see because the others were so friggin loud. This just reduces that. If I want to get distracted I'll still get distracted...like now. They aren't a miracle and they will NEVER substitute a good work ethic. I really really really hate taking these pills. I don't take it lightly when someone says they have ADD or ADHD when they obviously don't.

Trying hard and wanting to focus but truly not being able to is very frustrating. I truly wanted to focus. I did everything in my power to do it and still had difficulties. I then went through testing and had people HONESTLY fill out the sheets. If you don't have to take these things then don't.


I feel the EXACT same way. I am a senior applying to med schools right now. I always "thought" I had ADHD but thought of it as an excuse. So did both my physician parents. In undergrad I dedicated much more time to studying than most of my friends and I often got lower marks. I'm always last to finish my tests. I can go to the library and sit in a corner and still not be able to focus. The second I sit down and start studying my mind will wander. Its a constant struggle. Reading 1 chapter for homework will take me 2X as long. I forget what the sentence was about before I even finish reading it. Studying for the MCAT has provoked me into taking action.

If what i'm doing requires focus . . . I have trouble. I play competitive tennis and during long matches I often loose it mentally. The ball is coming and I start thinking about other things. When I sleep I can't shut my mind off. My thoughts keep jumping all around and it takes me hours to fall asleep every night.

Ive got a meeting with a psychologist this week and hopefully this issue can be alleviated. One thing that worries me is that a tolerance is built to the drugs.
 
I was diagnosed (after a thorough evaluation) with ADD two years into medschool. My "magic pill" doesn't make me smart or give me superhuman studying ability or make me better at tests. I never had any problem finishing tests (if anything the meds help me take my time a bit more) so I didn't ask for any testing accommodations.

I'm sure if I took a higher dose than is prescribed I could get some of the super-focusedness that "normal" people who abuse stimulants are getting. But when taken as prescribed thats not what it feels like at all. The stimulant centers me. I'm less anxious. I sleep better at night. I have an easier time focusing in non-quiet environments (like when we're rounding and there is chaos and alarms and phones ringing and 6 other conversations all around the nurse station, its easier to focus in on what the attending is saying). I procrastinate less. I still have to take breaks every 45 minutes of studying just as I did before. I still get distracted and play on the internet. I still am a little hypertalkative.

I've taken breaks off the meds and am completely capable of performing my clinical duties without them. I'm a little worse at time management (which in turn makes me anxious), a little less likely to get a pimp right because I can't stop listening to the nurses conversation a few feet away, a little less likely to study when I get home, a little less at peace in general because of all of the above. Maybe I'd get a few more HP's rather than H's on my evals without the meds but I'd hardly turn into a safety hazard without them lol.
 
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I have never inquired about special testing options because I just don't think it should be done in medical school. In most areas of education I think un-timed testing is good for the right people, but medicine is one of the exceptions (another that comes to mind is being a commercial pilot).

As for medication, I did my own research and went to the student health center well informed, and asked for wellbutrin. The Psychiatrist was happy to oblige, because wellbutrin is not considered a drug with abuse potential. My ADD symptoms are not restricted to academics, they permeate my life. An example: I can not tell you how many times I have locked my keys in my car. I wanted something that would have a lasting effects, sort of how SSRIs do, rather than something short acting like ritalin (I did take concerta for a year, and it was great for studying, but the ups and downs of a stimulant like that made quite moody). Wellbutrin is working really well, but I still have to put forth a lot of effort to study effectively. Even with medication, I am a very inefficient studier. Many people think that having a script for adderall or riatlin gives people an edge, but I guarantee that anyone with real ADD symptoms has to struggle even with the drugs working.

I would like to mention one thing: after a couple of months of working against myself, I finally decided to take the path of least resistance and embrace my learning style. Life is so much easier when you are willing to admit to yourself what your weakness are, and embrace your strengths. So I tend to jump around a lot when I'm studying, but as long as I understand that with enough time things will come together, I am fine.
 
Some casual research indicates that meditation is very useful in making our plastic brain become better concentrated.

Just think, a mere 3000 years ago, you probably wouldn't be sitting in a classroom. 3000 years is not much in terms of evolution.... hunting would def make ya hyperfocus!
 
Thanks for the responses. I don't need special accommodations (I have never received any). I just wan't help calming me down. I feel that I can't focus well because im always wired as hell. I wan't to get up and do things. I exercise daily which helps but is more of a temporary fix. I feel calm for an hour or so after but thats it.

Studying takes effort. That I know. What bothers me is when I dedicate the time and energy to study. . . . and still can't do it effectively.

Seems like a lot of people have trouble loosing things or have trouble organizing. I don't have trouble physically organizing but mentally . . . yes.

For instance when im trying to explain something complicated I often feel overwhelmed. There are so many things I need to get across that its difficult to organize my thoughts mentally. I often think too far ahead and forget what im talking about. Giving presentations has always been a big problem for me.

My doc appointment is on thursday so hopefully this can get sorted out soon. Thanks for all your input.
 
I ran across this thread by chance and found it very interesting. I'm quite relieved that I'm not the only medical student bothered by this.

I am a second year medical student and have had much mental anguish about the whole ADHD treatment and special testing situation. I guess that I was pretty naive about it until medical school started. It wasn't until then that I realized exactly how many people in my class were prescribed ADHD medications. I don't particularly care that they take the medications, I was just shocked by the number using them. I truly believe that ADHD (like many other medical problems) can be managed with medication and sometimes other non-pharmacological therapies. I didn't care until I learned that one of my classmates had special testing privileges. He is the first in the history of our school. That really bothered me more and more every time I thought about it. And the more I learned about the situation the more frustrated I became. MCAT taken over a 2 day period (vs in one morning). Twice the test time given to the rest of the class. No more than two tests in the same day (the rest of us had up to four). He will also have the USMLE divided into two days. Then to top it all off, he is #4 in our class (at the end of M1 year)!

If his ADHD is so bad that he needs special time privilages how are his grades so high? He obviously has ADHD (and is obviously responding well to drug therapy), does he really need time extension too? Where is the line between treating a person and getting them to "normal" vs overcompensating and giving them an unfair advantage? When he is applying for residencies will they know any of this up front? Why does anybody deserve "more time" during classroom years when there is no extra time during clinical years and in practice? Is ADHD in medicine analogous to vision in driving; is there a point at which the severity of the disease passes a threshold and becomes a true physical (and mental) disability? Does he have an ethical obligation to inform his patients of his limitations (don't they have the right to make an informed decision about who they want as their doctor)?

These are a few of the many questions I have tossed around in my head over the past year. I have to believe that this will all "even out" in the clinical years. But he's going to look GOLDEN on paper. I still find the whole situation very bothersome and frustrating.

I have conceded and decided to not worry about him and just work hard and do as well as I can. Sorry to vent my year's worth of frustrations here but this is the first time I have run across a discussion on the topic.
 
I ran across this thread by chance and found it very interesting. I'm quite relieved that I'm not the only medical student bothered by this.

I am a second year medical student and have had much mental anguish about the whole ADHD treatment and special testing situation. I guess that I was pretty naive about it until medical school started. It wasn't until then that I realized exactly how many people in my class were prescribed ADHD medications. I don't particularly care that they take the medications, I was just shocked by the number using them. I truly believe that ADHD (like many other medical problems) can be managed with medication and sometimes other non-pharmacological therapies. I didn't care until I learned that one of my classmates had special testing privileges. He is the first in the history of our school. That really bothered me more and more every time I thought about it. And the more I learned about the situation the more frustrated I became. MCAT taken over a 2 day period (vs in one morning). Twice the test time given to the rest of the class. No more than two tests in the same day (the rest of us had up to four). He will also have the USMLE divided into two days. Then to top it all off, he is #4 in our class (at the end of M1 year)!

If his ADHD is so bad that he needs special time privilages how are his grades so high? He obviously has ADHD (and is obviously responding well to drug therapy), does he really need time extension too? Where is the line between treating a person and getting them to "normal" vs overcompensating and giving them an unfair advantage? When he is applying for residencies will they know any of this up front? Why does anybody deserve "more time" during classroom years when there is no extra time during clinical years and in practice? Is ADHD in medicine analogous to vision in driving; is there a point at which the severity of the disease passes a threshold and becomes a true physical (and mental) disability? Does he have an ethical obligation to inform his patients of his limitations (don't they have the right to make an informed decision about who they want as their doctor)?

These are a few of the many questions I have tossed around in my head over the past year. I have to believe that this will all "even out" in the clinical years. But he's going to look GOLDEN on paper. I still find the whole situation very bothersome and frustrating.

I have conceded and decided to not worry about him and just work hard and do as well as I can. Sorry to vent my year's worth of frustrations here but this is the first time I have run across a discussion on the topic.

It has been my experience that most people with ADHD do not ask for special accommodations as they would prefer to not draw attention to their issue, but there are always those few, and they will always be around. You are right to not let it bother you.
 
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I ran across this thread by chance and found it very interesting. I'm quite relieved that I'm not the only medical student bothered by this.

I am a second year medical student and have had much mental anguish about the whole ADHD treatment and special testing situation. I guess that I was pretty naive about it until medical school started. It wasn't until then that I realized exactly how many people in my class were prescribed ADHD medications. I don't particularly care that they take the medications, I was just shocked by the number using them. I truly believe that ADHD (like many other medical problems) can be managed with medication and sometimes other non-pharmacological therapies. I didn't care until I learned that one of my classmates had special testing privileges. He is the first in the history of our school. That really bothered me more and more every time I thought about it. And the more I learned about the situation the more frustrated I became. MCAT taken over a 2 day period (vs in one morning). Twice the test time given to the rest of the class. No more than two tests in the same day (the rest of us had up to four). He will also have the USMLE divided into two days. Then to top it all off, he is #4 in our class (at the end of M1 year)!

If his ADHD is so bad that he needs special time privilages how are his grades so high? He obviously has ADHD (and is obviously responding well to drug therapy), does he really need time extension too? Where is the line between treating a person and getting them to "normal" vs overcompensating and giving them an unfair advantage? When he is applying for residencies will they know any of this up front? Why does anybody deserve "more time" during classroom years when there is no extra time during clinical years and in practice? Is ADHD in medicine analogous to vision in driving; is there a point at which the severity of the disease passes a threshold and becomes a true physical (and mental) disability? Does he have an ethical obligation to inform his patients of his limitations (don't they have the right to make an informed decision about who they want as their doctor)?

These are a few of the many questions I have tossed around in my head over the past year. I have to believe that this will all "even out" in the clinical years. But he's going to look GOLDEN on paper. I still find the whole situation very bothersome and frustrating.

I have conceded and decided to not worry about him and just work hard and do as well as I can. Sorry to vent my year's worth of frustrations here but this is the first time I have run across a discussion on the topic.

you should add that he's a minority to top this story off...
 
First of all, I will say there is a difference between being evaluated by a Psychiatrist (in office, 1 hour interview, filling out a simple questionnaire) and being evaluated via standardized testing (2 hour interview, 500 item questionnaire, surveys for family members, secondary questionnaires, and IQ testing). I also know at my University - the doctors at the student health center are not allowed to write ADD scripts - they can only be written by the staff psychiatrist.
I made it through high school and most of undergrad with very little effort. I never really studied and absorbed enough by going to class that the most test preparation I ever did was spend about an hour the night before skimming over notes until I got too bored to continue. I knew I was smart - and probably could have been top of my high school class or graduated with honors from U-grad - however, that required effort - and why invest all that time when I could not try and still pull a 3.4?
The semester I took OChem II, Biochem, and Genetics - I hit a wall. My overcompensation tactics weren't working any more. I could spend hours trying to study - only to get tests back with ugly numbers like 48, 52, and 60 on them. It didn't matter that I understood the material - that I could make connections between chemical pathways and the drugs used to treat problems in that pathway - or that I could discuss topics with my husband (a pharmacist) on his level - I was still the dumb kid who made Ds and Fs. It hurt, it hurt a lot. I had never been the dumb kid before, and looking over my graded tests to see where I went wrong only made it worse. I remember looking at one of my Ochem tests, reading an answer for a question I got wrong and saying "where the hell did that answer come from?" I didn't even remember answering it - I knew the correct answer, I just hadn't marked it. I was struggling to finish tests in the alotted time - all too often I would be about halfway done with a test and hear "10 minutes left." I started having panic attacks before tests, bad enough that my doctor prescribed beta blockers to help me chill out.

So, over the summer, I saw a psychiatrist, I spent the $600 on a formal, standardized evaluation (with health insurance). Turns out - I have a pretty serious case of ADHD, and I'm also really smart. The evaluating doctor told me "it's hard when your smart, you can always overcompensate and make good grades, so no one worries about you, you just get overlooked."

Once I started reading more about ADD/ADHD, so many things about me made sense. Socially awkward, uncommonly generous, consistently self-depreciating, easily irritated if plans changed suddenly, overwhelmed if something took more than one or two steps, anxious, always in three or four places at once mentally, prone to stomach problems, prone to taking unnecessary (and stupid) risks, and most interesting of all - having a hard time putting thoughts into words. Sometimes, I can't explain the definition of a word to someone because I only know how that word makes me feel. Sometimes I can't explain a concept to someone because, I'd just have to show them, I don't have the words.
(whew, even now, I'm totally wandering around off topic - ok, back to the point)

Starting Adderall changed my life. I'm 26 and have been on anti-depressants for the past 7 years. No SSRI has ever made me feel "ok" with myself. Now, for the first time I can remember, I can look someone straight in the eye and say "you know what, I'm ok." That's HUGE to me. Because I'm regaining my confidence, I'm more willing to put in more effort. I mean, I made the huge mistake of picking English as an undergraduate major because I was afraid of failing in math and science if I chose medicine like I wanted to. The meds definitely make things much quieter in my head - instead of focusing on (or trying to) 6 things at once, I can cut it down to 2. While I still can't pull the marathon 5 or 6 hour study sessions my classmates can, I can study now. I'm still learning how, in some ways - but I've passed every test this semester, which is a huge improvement from last semester.

Because I have standardized testing results - I qualify for accommodations at my undergraduate institution. I receive time and a half for tests and can take my tests in a distraction free environment. I don't get unlimited time, and I don't feel like its unfair. I'm just as smart as the other kids in my classes, and the extra time helps me prove it. I'm not at the top of my classes, I'm somewhere in the middle, but I'm grateful for my accommodations - I no longer have pre-test panic attacks.

It does upset me that so many people in professional programs would abuse stimulants, but as long as there are ways to get an edge, people will use them - it's just a fact. The medication helps me function like a normal person not a superhero.

ok - i've just said a whole lot and have no real idea where I wanted to go with that - so um, yeah - ADD and stuff.... :oops:
 
First of all, I will say there is a difference between being evaluated by a Psychiatrist (in office, 1 hour interview, filling out a simple questionnaire) and being evaluated via standardized testing (2 hour interview, 500 item questionnaire, surveys for family members, secondary questionnaires, and IQ testing). I also know at my University - the doctors at the student health center are not allowed to write ADD scripts - they can only be written by the staff psychiatrist.
I made it through high school and most of undergrad with very little effort. I never really studied and absorbed enough by going to class that the most test preparation I ever did was spend about an hour the night before skimming over notes until I got too bored to continue. I knew I was smart - and probably could have been top of my high school class or graduated with honors from U-grad - however, that required effort - and why invest all that time when I could not try and still pull a 3.4?
The semester I took OChem II, Biochem, and Genetics - I hit a wall. My overcompensation tactics weren't working any more. I could spend hours trying to study - only to get tests back with ugly numbers like 48, 52, and 60 on them. It didn't matter that I understood the material - that I could make connections between chemical pathways and the drugs used to treat problems in that pathway - or that I could discuss topics with my husband (a pharmacist) on his level - I was still the dumb kid who made Ds and Fs. It hurt, it hurt a lot. I had never been the dumb kid before, and looking over my graded tests to see where I went wrong only made it worse. I remember looking at one of my Ochem tests, reading an answer for a question I got wrong and saying "where the hell did that answer come from?" I didn't even remember answering it - I knew the correct answer, I just hadn't marked it. I was struggling to finish tests in the alotted time - all too often I would be about halfway done with a test and hear "10 minutes left." I started having panic attacks before tests, bad enough that my doctor prescribed beta blockers to help me chill out.

So, over the summer, I saw a psychiatrist, I spent the $600 on a formal, standardized evaluation (with health insurance). Turns out - I have a pretty serious case of ADHD, and I'm also really smart. The evaluating doctor told me "it's hard when your smart, you can always overcompensate and make good grades, so no one worries about you, you just get overlooked."

Once I started reading more about ADD/ADHD, so many things about me made sense. Socially awkward, uncommonly generous, consistently self-depreciating, easily irritated if plans changed suddenly, overwhelmed if something took more than one or two steps, anxious, always in three or four places at once mentally, prone to stomach problems, prone to taking unnecessary (and stupid) risks, and most interesting of all - having a hard time putting thoughts into words. Sometimes, I can't explain the definition of a word to someone because I only know how that word makes me feel. Sometimes I can't explain a concept to someone because, I'd just have to show them, I don't have the words.
(whew, even now, I'm totally wandering around off topic - ok, back to the point)

Starting Adderall changed my life. I'm 26 and have been on anti-depressants for the past 7 years. No SSRI has ever made me feel "ok" with myself. Now, for the first time I can remember, I can look someone straight in the eye and say "you know what, I'm ok." That's HUGE to me. Because I'm regaining my confidence, I'm more willing to put in more effort. I mean, I made the huge mistake of picking English as an undergraduate major because I was afraid of failing in math and science if I chose medicine like I wanted to. The meds definitely make things much quieter in my head - instead of focusing on (or trying to) 6 things at once, I can cut it down to 2. While I still can't pull the marathon 5 or 6 hour study sessions my classmates can, I can study now. I'm still learning how, in some ways - but I've passed every test this semester, which is a huge improvement from last semester.

Because I have standardized testing results - I qualify for accommodations at my undergraduate institution. I receive time and a half for tests and can take my tests in a distraction free environment. I don't get unlimited time, and I don't feel like its unfair. I'm just as smart as the other kids in my classes, and the extra time helps me prove it. I'm not at the top of my classes, I'm somewhere in the middle, but I'm grateful for my accommodations - I no longer have pre-test panic attacks.

It does upset me that so many people in professional programs would abuse stimulants, but as long as there are ways to get an edge, people will use them - it's just a fact. The medication helps me function like a normal person not a superhero.

ok - i've just said a whole lot and have no real idea where I wanted to go with that - so um, yeah - ADD and stuff.... :oops:

I also receive accommodations at my undergraduate institution. Time and a half and a distraction free environment. I don't feel like it's unfair because I am just as smart as the other kids in my class-it just takes me longer to process sometimes. I know the material just as well and have studied just as long if not longer (it just takes me longer to get through the material). I have been using the accommodations gradually less and decided not to use them on the MCAT. I trained myself to be able to reach my target score without more time. But regular classes are different, and I do generally use my accommodations for my science classes. I do always try to finish in the regular amount of time, though.

I was diagnosed in 3rd grade with combined-type ADHD. They did a full evaluation of me, including teacher evaluations. I have been on stimulant medication since then. In regards to the people wondering about becoming resistant to the medication, I have taken the same dosage of Concerta for years. It just works for me.

I guess my point is that I'm glad and thankul that I've had the accommodations. I feel like it's leveled the playing field, rather than put me ahead.

There's so much more I could say, but I'll save it for another time.
 
Some casual research indicates that meditation is very useful in making our plastic brain become better concentrated.

Just think, a mere 3000 years ago, you probably wouldn't be sitting in a classroom. 3000 years is not much in terms of evolution.... hunting would def make ya hyperfocus!


yes, hunting holds my attention and is one of my favorite things to do
 
My dad did work harder than his peers, and DID spend more time on things than was needed, but that only explains why he graduated first in his class. He does seem to be a little slow realising things at times, but nothing that's too much out of the ordinary. And well, he can work with distractions quite effectively, I on the other hand, obviously can't. My mom is also the same, and so is pretty much everyone in my family. I know my youngest sister daydreams more often than is usual, but she can consistently it seems, pay attention in school despite sucking at math (it just seems she doesn't understand it). By comparison, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me if I were physically present in a classroom or not. Most of the material I have to learn outside of class, and the only way I can effectively do so, is by taking this horrendous medication which makes me feel even more sluggish after it wears off. It's as if I am slowly losing my sanity, which is probably true since ADD-I is thought to be associated with the DRD4 gene, the same one which is also thought to be associated with Schizophrenia (which my maternal grandfather had) and Parkinson's. Autism is also on the same chromosome, along with plenty of other disorders and incurable illnesses. Some forms of deafness are even there, which brings to mind my dad's side of the family -- his twin brother died short after birth, while the other twin survived only to have heart problems and hearing problems. What's even stranger is some of these other syndromes are also found in many other Ukrainians and it appears to be exclussively just this ethnic group that's impacted. On my mum's side for instance, her mother died of breast cancer which is *surprise* on this chromosome too. After reading about this, it really makes me wonder what it would be like to be normal, to have a normal attention span, to be able to easily focus, to stop daydreaming for once, to actually recall the important aspects of my childhood because it seems like everything was just one big dream and I don't remember any of it waking up now at 18. What saddens me (or rather angers me) is I am not exactly sure what this is (SCT or ADD-I) and whether or not there will be some way of coping with it without medication, whether or not I'll ever be a normal human being, whether or not I'll be able to enjoy my life as much as everyone else. Thinking about this made me remember those I thought to be really misfortunate, those with rare, disabling, sometimes fatal genetic disorders, and saying to myself 'wow, I wonder what it would be like to be them -- to never have a chance at a normal life.' Well now I ****ing know, now don't I? I hope you can seriously relate somehow, whether with general family history or feelings.

What is the connection between ADHD and Ukrainian ancestry? I have ADD and my grandfather was Ukrainian.
 
So a few questions on this topic.

1. Do people agree that stimulant medicines can improve the academic performance of those people who don't "need" them? It seems that there is a large cottage industry in undergrads of ritalin taking/selling etc around test times. I had a friend who would occasionally filch a ritalin from another friend if he had a busy day because he felt like he just got way more done when he was on the medication. If they do I think that there are serious bioethical questions surrounding their use. This is part of my frustration with people who claim to have ADD/ADHD without actually displaying any of the symptomatology of the disease as defined by our psychiatry colleagues. In other threads posters have essentially said that ADHD is what they want to make it.

2. If you have ADHD and needed medication to succeed in medical school are you a disabled physician? I think one might argue that you are. So you start med school and can't deal with the workload unless you are on a very specific medicine. What if at some point in the future you become intolerant of that medicine or have to start another medication that interferes with it. Do you give up practice? Because you've pretty much said that you can't be a medical student without medication so can you then go on to be a physician without it?

3. Patient safety issues. If you need stimulants to get through medical school what happens when you are a resident and forget to take your pill? Should you dutifully report to your chiefs/attendings that you are undermedicated and should be sent home for the day? Once again I draw the attention (so to speak) back to DSM criteria for ADD/ADHD. Would you want a family member cared for by a resident who is easily distracted, has trouble focusing, cannot stay on task and who forgot their medicine that day?

Someone care to explain why they think that sitting in a classroom or studying powerpoints somehow is the same as patient care?
 
Someone care to explain why they think that sitting in a classroom or studying powerpoints somehow is the same as patient care?
I doubt any of them will explain since it's been 2 years from the last post on a thread that started in 2009.
 
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I doubt any of them will explain since it's been 2 years from the last post on a thread that started in 2009.
If you're just going to be a snarky jackass then don't bother replying.
 
If you're just going to be a snarky jackass then don't bother replying.
It's not being snarky when the person whose post you replied to posted it back in 2009. But don't lose hope!
 
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If you're just going to be a snarky jackass then don't bother replying.

can you explain why he's a snarky jackass??. this thread is 5 years old. All he said was that he doubts anyone is going to reply.
 
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Someone care to explain why they think that sitting in a classroom or studying powerpoints somehow is the same as patient care?

You are trapped in a room with some jackass who wants to talk about the details of their life instead of giving you the information you really want. Then you have to regurgitate it on a computer.

Exact same, beeyotch.
 
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You are trapped in a room with some jackass who wants to talk about the details of their life instead of giving you the information you really want. Then you have to regurgitate it on a computer.

Exact same, beeyotch.

Very funny...

can you explain why he's a snarky jackass??. this thread is 5 years old. All he said was that he doubts anyone is going to reply.

I guess anyone except him.

It's not being snarky when the person whose post you replied to posted it back in 2009. But don't lose hope!

If you're just going to be a snarky jackass then don't bother replying.


can you explain why he's a snarky jackass??. this thread is 5 years old. All he said was that he doubts anyone is going to reply.

Snarky because if he didn't think anyone would reply, he didn't need to either and not answer my question.
 
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I've had adhd since I began 3rd year.
 
yeah like i have said for the most part it is a bogus diagnosis. Of course some people have legit issues but most do not and it is a joke how is easy it is to get a diagnosis and a prescription.
It is a joke how easy it is. Maybe some of the researchers can come up with a better test and maybe you can help come up with a better test. I never thought honestly that I had adhd. When I was little, my mom took me to a doctor and she asked me if I could focus on a really interesting fiction novel. I said yes and the doctor said- nope you don't have adhd. Infact, I do. I struggled in school for years- had depression, extremely low self esteem. Since the doctor said I was fine, I thought I was just stupid- a person not really meant to achieve things in life. ADHD is very real and its not as simple as you not being able to focus more than 30 mins. That doctor who ruled adhd out was much like you and thought people are just making excuses and getting unnecessary accommodations. If you think you have it- maybe you do. You should take the joke diagnosis and actually try the adhd medicine. If you do have it- you will notice the world totally change for you. It certainly changed mine. I can't believe I am in med school. Straterra changed my life for good.
 
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people forget the main issue in the brain isn't the inability to actually maintain attention, but to control where it is placed

this obviously can manifest as an inability to maintain attention, but it can also manifest as hyperfocus
 
Hello, everyone! I'm doing a study for my research class and I need some help from any of you medical students who have been diagnosed with ADHD.

What has your experience been like?
Have you been offered any kind of service at your University (like special testing conditions)?
Have your professors made any accomodations for you?
What kinds of adjectives would you use to describe your experiences? (frustration? Accomplishment? etc.)

Thank you in advance for your help! I may post an online survey later this week if I can get enough responses.

I’m an OMS-1 and got diagnosed with ADHD-inattentive type after I failed a course my second semester. What I found out was that even though I was watching lectures, reading, and studying a lot, I wasn’t actually able to process a large percentage of the material due to information overload and something they described as a shutter opening and closing in my brain. When the psychiatrist tested me, they read me a list of 20 simple words and I was only able to repeat back a couple of them afterwards because I couldn’t process or make connections with the words that were being said to me. This was causing me to have to spend more time per lecture learning the material, so I either couldn’t get through everything or if I did, I didn’t understand the material well. The other test they ran had me stare at a screen for 20 minutes and I had to click a button every time a box appeared at the top. My results showed that as time passed my brain didn’t register that a box had appeared on the screen, so I had a lot of “misses”, meaning that even though I was trying to focus, I still wasn’t able to do a simple task. So for the people who think ADHD is BS, that is completely not true. No matter how many times I changed my study habits, got advice from professors or my advisor, I still wasn’t able to learn all the material needed in the designated amount of time between exams. I’ll have to repeat my first year, but failing allowed me to learn what deficiencies I had while studying so that I could address them. Also, I think if students seek out proper treatment for their ADHD, there shouldn’t be too much of a reason for special accommodations. If they do still feel that they still need accommodations, they may just need to change their treatment.
 
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