medicine to dentistry

[medicineman1]

anyone know of a MD/DO who went into dentistry? howd he/she do it? redo dental school or enter as say a 3rd year? any info appreciated. considering change...

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[Da Bomb]

Good question. I dont know anybody who has done this but I think Columbia has a program were you get advanced standing. It would be difficult to just jump in as a third year because for the first two years students are put through intensive pre-clinical studies. Without this base one would struggle in clinic. I doubt a school would allow a student to work on a patient with out this training.

 

[Lidopaine82]

there is no way you could enter as anything other than a first year.

 

[ObviousGuy]

way to have a life changing idea though. Congratulations!

Look forward to spending even more money than you already have, to be something you are probably still not sure you want to become.

Still, if you DO really finally come to the decision of what you want to do, you can pay back all that debt about 10 years sooner as a DDS/DMD then a cardiovascular surgeon.

good luck

 

[S Files]

YES this has been done in the past.....do a search on sdn you'll find some info. advanced standing has been given (enter as 2nd or 3rd yr.)....done at schools where med and dent classes are integrated in 1st and 2nd yrs...better have a legit reason to do this.

 

[scalpel2008]

anyone know of a MD/DO who went into dentistry? howd he/she do it? redo dental school or enter as say a 3rd year? any info appreciated. considering change...

i know an MD who did a 1 year gen surg internship and is currently in dental school with the intention of doing OMS (which is irrelevant). Although his schedule was lighter than the traditional DDS students during the first year, he is doing all four years.

 

[capisce?]

Why are dental students so hostile to this type of situation?

It's hypocritical. I'd say a majority of predents, dental students, and dentists at one point were considering medicine. What if you had chosed the md route, and were unhappy? Would you have the stones to change as this person might?

To answer your question, I had a classmate who had completed 2 (i think...2 or 3) years of med school before coming to dental school. He had to start as a 1st year but was able to test out of some of our classes 1st year. He is now in an oral surgery residency so i guess it's all come full circle.

Good luck.

 

[toofache32]

The problem with advance standing is that dental students take a lot of dental courses in the first 2 years, in addition to the basic sciences that med students take. So the first 2 years are not equivalent....dental students take a heavier courseload. I guess advanced standing could be possible in dental schools like Columbia where students can graduate without ever seeing a tooth.

 

[scalpel2008]

I guess advanced standing could be possible in dental schools like Columbia where students can graduate without ever seeing a tooth.

now that's some funny ****.

 

[crazy_sherm]

I have two classmates (husband and wife) who received medical degrees in Hungary and another classmate who was an oral surgeon in Japan. All three of them had to start from scratch.

 

[ajex]

i was once told by a dual-qualified OMFS that dental students have to know about 50- 60% of what the med students know (maybe higher in havard/columbia/other dental programs that are very "medically" orientated), whereas med students only need to know about 10-20% of what dental students know (brown spots are holes that need fillings, white colour fillings are the best, you just pull with forceps when doing extracions..etc)...so..it's not hard to imagine advance standing for our friendly med colleagues is sometimes abit more difficult. perhaps it takes a longer time to master the skills in doing an indirect vision class 2 amalgam restoration than say putting an iv line into someone's arm (i am sure a fat arm is also very difficult); then again, i havent done the latter on a real person so i cant say that comment is fair..any comments for those who have done both?

 

[Sprgrover]

anyone know of a MD/DO who went into dentistry? howd he/she do it? redo dental school or enter as say a 3rd year? any info appreciated. considering change...

Such a person would have to go through all the lovely preclinical training that dental students endure during the first two years so if you are looking to go into dentistry the most you could probably shave off of your dental education would be a year.

 

[TucsonDDS]

i was once told by a dual-qualified OMFS that dental students have to know about 50- 60% of what the med students know (maybe higher in havard/columbia/other dental programs that are very "medically" orientated), whereas med students only need to know about 10-20% of what dental students know (brown spots are holes that need fillings, white colour fillings are the best, you just pull with forceps when doing extracions..etc)...so..it's not hard to imagine advance standing for our friendly med colleagues is sometimes abit more difficult. perhaps it takes a longer time to master the skills in doing an indirect vision class 2 amalgam restoration than say putting an iv line into someone's arm (i am sure a fat arm is also very difficult); then again, i havent done the latter on a real person so i cant say that comment is fair..any comments for those who have done both?

The indirect prep and restoration is much more difficult than an IV. Also, if you don't get the IV in the fat man's arm there are always plenty of nurses that can get it for you. We don't have the luxury of that when we f up a prep.

 

[scalpel2008]

i was once told by a dual-qualified OMFS that dental students have to know about 50- 60% of what the med students know (maybe higher in havard/columbia/other dental programs that are very "medically" orientated), whereas med students only need to know about 10-20% of what dental students know (brown spots are holes that need fillings, white colour fillings are the best, you just pull with forceps when doing extracions..etc)...so..it's not hard to imagine advance standing for our friendly med colleagues is sometimes abit more difficult. perhaps it takes a longer time to master the skills in doing an indirect vision class 2 amalgam restoration than say putting an iv line into someone's arm (i am sure a fat arm is also very difficult); then again, i havent done the latter on a real person so i cant say that comment is fair..any comments for those who have done both?

2 entirely different worlds. A dental student doesn't know what the hell a BMP is and a medical student doesn't know what hell a class II prep is (or even tooth #15 for that matter). The only common knowledge they have is the Kreb's cycle. Basic sciences are more rigorous in medical school but similar enough that the NBDE I and USMLE 1 (a lot harder) should be sufficient to test either. Medical school isn't about sticking IVs. It mostly about H+Ps, differential dx, and lab values. No motor skills are needed whatsoever. On the other hand for dental students, as long as the pt has a pulse, they can do a prep (motor skills).

 

[ScorpiORTHO]

The problem with advance standing is that dental students take a lot of dental courses in the first 2 years, in addition to the basic sciences that med students take. So the first 2 years are not equivalent....dental students take a heavier courseload. I guess advanced standing could be possible in dental schools like Columbia where students can graduate without ever seeing a tooth.

That's BS plain and simple. In addition to med school classes during our first 2 years, we take pre-clinic classes such as Dental Anatomy and Occlusion, Perio, Prostho, Ortho, OMFS, Operative, Cariology, Local Anesthesia, Oral Radiology, Endo.
3rd and 4th year are in the clinic.
It's frustrating to work so hard and hear people say that about your school. True that our academics is a very heavy workload but what you said is just ridiculous.

By the way, we had an MD in our class when we started dental school and had to go through all 4 years mainly having to take the dental classes. The person hadn't realized how time-consuming the dental classes were and thought it would be a piece of cake and decided to forget the idea altogether towards the end of first year.

 

[billclinton]

you can pay back all that debt about 10 years sooner as a DDS/DMD then a cardiovascular surgeon.

good luck

Given that that avg CT surgeon makes 4-5x a dentist, I find this extremely hard to believe. Unless you mean that since a dentist is done with the training sooner, he/she can start paying on their loans sooner. Even still, in the long run a CT sugreon will surpass a dentist in gross income by far.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=209&x=41&y=6
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=209&x=22&y=11

But, to the OP, you should focus more on what you will enjoy doing, rather than on debt.

 

[aphistis]

That's BS plain and simple. In addition to med school classes during our first 2 years, we take pre-clinic classes such as Dental Anatomy and Occlusion, Perio, Prostho, Ortho, OMFS, Operative, Cariology, Local Anesthesia, Oral Radiology, Endo.
3rd and 4th year are in the clinic.
It's frustrating to work so hard and hear people say that about your school. True that our academics is a very heavy workload but what you said is just ridiculous.

By the way, we had an MD in our class when we started dental school and had to go through all 4 years mainly having to take the dental classes. The person hadn't realized how time-consuming the dental classes were and thought it would be a piece of cake and decided to forget the idea altogether towards the end of first year.

So what you're saying is that Columbia's dental school is, well, a dental school. Defensive much?

 

[Sprgrover]

...A dental student doesn't know what the hell a BMP is...

Um, bone morphogenetic protein?

 

[scalpel2008]

Um, bone morphogenetic protein?

basic metabolic panel

 

[ca_dreamin']

So what you're saying is that Columbia's dental school is, well, a dental school. Defensive much?

I think its pretty reasonable to be a little "defensive" when someone decides to put down your hard work with thoughtless comments.

 

[toofache32]

I think its pretty reasonable to be a little "defensive" when someone decides to put down your hard work with thoughtless comments.

Just a joke. And everyone else here works hard, too.

 

[billyjones]

Creighton has an agreement with University of Utah where residence of Utah are admitted into Creightons dental program and spend the first two years in Utah (which has no dental school) taking all the exact same courses as the med students. After the 2 years they move to Nebraska and finish their studies in the dental school.

I am sure every school is organized a little differently, but that is one situation where a med student could possibly skip the first two years of dental school.

 

[crazy_sherm]

Creighton has an agreement with University of Utah where residence of Utah are admitted into Creightons dental program and spend the first two years in Utah (which has no dental school) taking all the exact same courses as the med students. After the 2 years they move to Nebraska and finish their studies in the dental school.

I am sure every school is organized a little differently, but that is one situation where a med student could possibly skip the first two years of dental school.

You only spend one year at U of UT and the remaining three at Crieghton through the RDEP-Creighton program. Concentrating on basic sciences is all fine and dandy for the first year, but at some point you're going to need to go through all the pre-clin courses before going into clinic your 3rd year. U of UT doesn't have the facilities to provide this.

 

[ajex]

2 entirely different worlds. A dental student doesn't know what the hell a BMP is and a medical student doesn't know what hell a class II prep is (or even tooth #15 for that matter). The only common knowledge they have is the Kreb's cycle. Basic sciences are more rigorous in medical school but similar enough that the NBDE I and USMLE 1 (a lot harder) should be sufficient to test either. Medical school isn't about sticking IVs. It mostly about H+Ps, differential dx, and lab values. No motor skills are needed whatsoever. On the other hand for dental students, as long as the pt has a pulse, they can do a prep (motor skills).

i agree that med and dent can be two totally different things beyond the kreb's cycle; but that is also dependent on which school you go to. i know some schools are very heavily "med based" in their first two years. particularly those with PBL teachings where their "problem of the week", almost always a medical problem, is shared and solved by dent and med students in concert. And in order to solve such problems, it is almost next to impossible to do so without some understanding of those "thinking" skills and clinical knowledges that traditional med students possess. However, it is still difficult for a med person to get advance standing into one of these programs since the dents, along with doing all the med stuff, are also required to do some extra dental-based subjects and motor training skills that they will need in treating patients.

 

[Cyclysm]

Such a person would have to go through all the lovely preclinical training that dental students endure during the first two years so if you are looking to go into dentistry the most you could probably shave off of your dental education would be a year.

michigan has a student who did this. going into OMFS eventually. They condensed the first two years of pre-clinical studies into one by taking out the didactic courses that were already completed in medical school. The student was still required to take some of the lecture courses that are dentistry specific. Like Sprgrover said, because of pre-clinic and then the roughly two year clinic experience it is hard to just start in the third year.

 

[S Files]

2 entirely different worlds. A dental student doesn't know what the hell a BMP is and a medical student doesn't know what hell a class II prep is (or even tooth #15 for that matter). The only common knowledge they have is the Kreb's cycle. Basic sciences are more rigorous in medical school but similar enough that the NBDE I and USMLE 1 (a lot harder) should be sufficient to test either. Medical school isn't about sticking IVs. It mostly about H+Ps, differential dx, and lab values. No motor skills are needed whatsoever. On the other hand for dental students, as long as the pt has a pulse, they can do a prep (motor skills).

i know you're being dramatic for its effect, but your opinion is based on your experiences. obviously, for those dent and med students who went to a med/dent integrated school, they understand that there is a lot more in common past the Kreb's cycle. most of these integrated schools emphasize the interrelationships more. i.e. all students rotating thru salivary dysfunction clinics, cleft-craniofacial clinics. and general dentistry with more emphasis on medically compromised pts. head and neck exam isn't just about a pulse. specialists in other fields do'nt ignore the rest of the body, oral cavity is no different. i'm not putting down non-integrated dental schools, but if all you know is a hammer all you see is nails.

 

[TucsonDDS]

specialists in other fields do'nt ignore the rest of the body, oral cavity is no different.

Specialists in other fields most definitely do ignore the rest of the body. Ask a neurosurgeon about your prostate and they will tell you to see a urologist. Ask a urologist to manage a CVA patient and they will call in a neurosurgeon. I think that there are definite benefits to a combined program for the type of student that wants to take full advantage of it. Having more experience with medically compromised patients than who are able to walk through a school clinics doors would be very usefull. I know in Tucson where I am from it is impossible for a hemophiliac to find a Dentist who is willing to take care of them. Maybe with more schooling and experience a dentist would feel comfortable with these patients and they would not have to go to Phoenix for care.

 

[S Files]

Specialists in other fields most definitely do ignore the rest of the body. Ask a neurosurgeon about your prostate and they will tell you to see a urologist. Ask a urologist to manage a CVA patient and they will call in a neurosurgeon. I think that there are definite benefits to a combined program for the type of student that wants to take full advantage of it. Having more experience with medically compromised patients than who are able to walk through a school clinics doors would be very usefull. I know in Tucson where I am from it is impossible for a hemophiliac to find a Dentist who is willing to take care of them. Maybe with more schooling and experience a dentist would feel comfortable with these patients and they would not have to go to Phoenix for care.

good points esp w/ the hemophilia example. and that's a stretch, i'm in no way saying a dentist needs to know about prostate. what i'm saying is many dentists find every excuse in the book to avoid making decisions and would rather lean on other health care providers i.e. MD/DO to make a decision. we should be knowledgeable and comfortable enough instead of saying, oh no you're on plavix, let's get a hundred letters of clearance from your physicians, etc etc. geez, find out the dose, and we have all the guidelines available how to proceed. it comes full circle, if you have the krebs cycle mentality, you won't have the confidence and drive think otherwise.

 

[diagnodent]

How did this thread change directions so quickly?

First of all, most dentists don't have a phobia to thinking for themselves. They will think and can treat most medically compromised patients without problems if they use reason and caution. (no full mouth exts)
The reason most dentists don't treat these types of patients is the hoops they should jump through with medical clearance forms. Then when it is all said and done these types of patients don't have the money to pay. Why go thru all the trouble and liability when you won't get paid.

 

[Doggie]

The problem with advance standing is that dental students take a lot of dental courses in the first 2 years, in addition to the basic sciences that med students take. So the first 2 years are not equivalent....dental students take a heavier courseload. I guess advanced standing could be possible in dental schools like Columbia where students can graduate without ever seeing a tooth.

What's a tooth?

I wonder how dental schools in tennessee work since all their patients have no teeth.