Medstudents the most self-centered of a University?

Judge not, lest ye be smacked in the face by this self-centered a-hole med student.

Try surviving a few semesters in school before deciding that you could never act that way. You'd be surprised what kind of selfishness can spout out of you when you're in the middle of what seems to be an endless string of "fight or flight" situations. Life quickly becomes about you first, you second, and you third just so that you can excel and get that dream derm residency you've wanted since the womb.

 

Right on. Do not doubt your ability to morph into a self-centered med school jackass... I'm living proof.

But I think that part of the "med school culture" stems from the reality that is day-to-day life. Everyone in school is Type A, hardcore, and used to being the best. So take a group of 150 people like that and then tell them:

"Almost all of you will be 200,000 in debt. Only the top 20 or so of you will ever be able to lead the 'doctor lifestyle'...the rest of you will be fighting litigation, long hours, and the gov't for the rest of your careers. Ready? Break!"

So I guess that makes you jaded pretty quickly.

 

I don't think it's true for the most part, I think the majority of students actually aren't self-centered, they really do care about others, BUT they have become so jaded by talk of "professionalism" and professors treating them like little kids that they may come off that way. There are some people in my class who are self-centered though.

It's all a defense mechanism to survive the day.

 

You're lucky...people must be friendly in the midwest

 

I wonder where I fit in your grouping of people in our class.

 

I think the point is valid, but the semantics are waaayyy off. Med students are no more or less selfish than anyone else in the general population. I know a few selfish a--holes and a few generous bleeding hearts, and everyone else falls in between. Med students are however focused, and often develop a tunnel vision in which lies studying, studying, and more studying. This focus can be mistaken for being an a--hole, when they aren't so much paying attention only to themselves as they are just paying attention only to studying.

 

Stress will make you act a fool. That is why medstudents and dcotors act like a-holes.

 

Well, based solely on your original post, self-centered. But since you've provided me with assistance in the form of micro exams and amusement during psych lectures/small group, you can't be as self-centered as some M1 phlebs who yell at other M1s at Saturday clinic.

 

Often yes.

Not likely. Otherwise they wouldn't repeatedly turn around and treat their students like crap when they become residents.

 

Agree -- residency totally reinforces the notion that you are so important to the world that they cannot even afford to let you go home and sleep. You reconcile the fact that you are working longer hours for lower pay than your peers by the fact that you are supposedly doing something far more valuable. There's no way this would make you more humble.

 

^she is definitely right!

 

Law2Doc is a she? I always thought she was a he for some reason.

 

Most people where I am at are pretty nice. Though there are some exceptions, I think the trend is actually more self-centered as you rise the ladder. I think a lot of the self-centeredness of med students seems to be there because of the competition involved and some take the me or you approach so to speak. If you took that away, I think they would be far less self-centered compared to the others. My example: I was just sitting in the lounge alone watching a very important university game, and the resident comes in (not knowing you aren't another resident) - can easily see I was watching the game and was involved in it -and just changes the channel without asking. That's self-centered. He didn't come from our university and didn't care about the game. I really hope a med student would never do the same. That's almost a declaration of war.

 

I think Law2Doc's a he, but he'll never tell. No, I don't have any inside knowledge, though. It's weird because I always read his (her?) posts as being very much the posts made by a guy. Don't know why. It's interesting that other people read it differently.

he/she?? had a good point, though.

 

Wow, this is very true. I've also noticed we as med students tend to look down at dentists/PhDs/JDs etc.

ULTRON

 

Despite being in massive debt, a significant majority of medical students in America come from privileged, upper-middle class backgrounds. Whether or not that translates to being self-centered probably depends on how (where?) they were raised/educated.

I'll abstain from rambling on about how our stagnant health care system has some of its deep-rooted origins in the self-selecting admissions process and medical education itself. Oligarchy says it all.

 

everyone is self-centered

 

I'm guessing you've never hung out with the Drama School students, huh?

 

Being on average from privileged, upper middle class backgrounds is true for most professional schools, but you certainly don't see the same range of "my job is more important" to God complex at such other schools as you see in medicine. And you see that same range of attitude from the folks in the class with more modest backgrounds. Just read pre-allo and you will see a clear sense of disdain for any other path. This is an attitude bred by the competitiveness of it all.

 

Even here you have the super lame conversations about whether med school is harder (to get into and complete) than other programs like vet school, clinical psychology, ph.d. programs. If someone tries to assert that, say, it's harder to get into vet school, it really works the medical students up. I don't get why we care? It's harder to get into vet school -- so? I think we try to assert that medical school is the absolutely hardest, more horrible, most honorable path, which does make us feel superior.

The one other thing I can see where there's some ego issues is that we get all sorts of speeches at school about how special, smart and good we are. They didn't do that in law school. I've never heard of people hearing that in Ph.D. programs. It just seems very weird to me.

 

Agree that many students, residents, and physicians are self centered. However, after four years of med school and two years on the wards, far and away the most nauseating thing is that everyone who works in a hospital is self-centered, hyped up on the importance of their position and feeds into the culture hell bent on hierarchy. Maybe its my hosptial, or the fact I just got yelled at by some **tch of a RNFA for something trivial, but everywhere I turn from surgeons, cardiologists, PA's, RN's, RNFA's blah blah blah- all seemed convinced that without them the very foundations of the hospital- nay, society itself- would crumble. I can't wait for the day to be a doctor away from this racous, practicing the way I want without being surrounded by 800 people jerking off their egos.

 

I don't think med students were any more self centered than any other groups of students around here, but then again, we don't interact with other students that much so I don't get a chance to see my fellow classmates spitting on other students for fun.

However, I will say that there is definitely a 'my profession is superior to X profession' around here. And one student mentioned that being a med student helps him with the chicks. However, I think most of us are pretty level headed. Ok, there are comments about 'being a really smart group of people blah blah", but that's more to make us feel comfortable about getting "Pass" or failing an exam than being arrogant.

I always pictured Law2Doc was this guy in a suit typing in front of his computer with his low, thundering voice.

Btw, how the heck did you change your user handle??

 

You know what? I have a very similar image. For some reason, I also think he's blonde.

We had the great username change a few weeks ago. DrMom seems to do it maybe once a year. It was stickied at the top of pre-allo.

 

that debate was because it's an objective true or false issue and many people (myself included) felt that stats showed it was harder to get into med school.

the threads about which is harder once you're in are just dumb though. med school can be easy if you just want FP or it can be three full time jobs if you demand plastics at harvard.

 

I think that nearly every highly successful group of students tend to be self centered, whether they be in law, business, medicine, social science, you name it... it just comes with the territory. Med students probably seem more so on average because the average med student is more accomplished than the average business/law student. I've met plenty of engineering students that think they're gods gift to academics; studying anything less than engineering is a complete waste of time, in their eyes.

 

What's your point?

 

LOL - I think you just proved the OP's point with this statement.

 

I think everyone would not entirely be telling the truth if they say that they haven't become a bit more self centered while in medical school. I was told by one of the docs who designs the curriculum that he feels one of the most important things about your medical education is getting you to the point where you think you can do anything... He gave the example that when performing surgery every surgery has a set complication rate - chances are you are going to mess up that surgery at one point in your life. However, if you were to go into every surgery saying "oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, please don't mess this up..." it would be horrible. So they try and get you into the mindset of "I'm the baddest mofo on the planet and despite the odds complications are never going to happen during my surgery"

 

I don't know if med students are intrinsically more self-centered than other people, but I can think of a variety of reasons we might seem that way. Many of these have already been mentioned--the competitive nature of admissions and med school itself, the personality type that tends to be attracted to it, and the priviliged backgrounds of a majority (but by no means all) med students. I would also add that the times I notice myself acting that way, it usually has to do with stress and/or feeling defensive. The stress part is obvious--it's a lot of work, most people understand that you're very busy, and when you're feeling the pressure it's hard not to come off to others sometimes like what you're doing is more important than whatever is going on in their lives, even if you don't truly believe that.

Sometimes I find myself acting that way as a self-defense mechanism also: I remember before med school having more interests and free time, but now I feel like I must seem so one-dimensional to others--most of my life is centered around school and studying. I don't have a job, I'm single and have little time for dating and meeting new people, I don't have any interesting hobbies. I spend most of my time learning and thinking about medicine and related topics. Even pop culture things like TV and new music fall by the wayside. As a result, I feel like sometimes all I have to talk about is med school, which probably makes me seem self-centered in and of itself, plus I probably play up the importance of it a bit in order to make myself feel better about the fact that I don't have other more exciting things going on. Sad!

 

Yep. Actually the people I went to law school with were every bit as accomplished as the people at my medical school. It's not a piece of cake getting into a quality law school or mba program. But then we can get into the whole tired medical school is so much harder to get into than anything else debate.

 

I have observed the exact opposite. The med students I know are all obsessed with helping everyone and saving the world. I wish they would be more "selfish" so insurance companies wouldn't have free rein to ruin the occupation.

 

You have to be a bit self centered to invest a quarter mil in yourself and to spend four years pushing yourself to progressively improve and outcompete your brilliant determined peers. And if your on the surgeon path you definitley have to have a bit of an ego to have the confidence to slice into someone under the belief that you can personally fix them.

Also its easy to take on a victim mentality while the system of medical education beats the crap out of you like some twisted hazing ritual. My husband has complained that no matter how bad his day is it doesn't compare to how hard I worked or how stressed out I am so its like his strife is never worth mentioning, so I can see how that could make me seem self centered without me doing anything but experiencing the suckage that is medical education sometimes (well most of the time). It is also very easy to lose track of all the reasons outside yourself that you got into this field when you spend your first two years locked away in a library under a stack of notesets and textbooks.

 

I'd be willing to say that people in highly ranking business schools are bigger jackasses than med school students. I think that you need at least some decency in the medical field. I think business students are too busy watching The Apprentice and convincing themselves to act like The Donald to see everyone as inferior. Maybe that's because my undergrad had a huge amount of douche business majors and I hate them. That's neither here nor there!

 

Megalomania doesn't always have to be motivated by evil. The fact that an individual sees themselves as able to save the world is a delusion of grandeur and, by definition, quite self centered.

 

True. To ride on Law2doc, its a little more disconcerting that their ego is predicated on who banks more money and how they do it- obviously a gross generalization- but it definitely brings to mind the movie Wall street. I think my last post was very reactionary to my day on the wards. Still, I've cultivated a lower and lower tolerance to physicians/students thinking they are the smartest people in the most difficult of fields.

 

I think this is a hands down yes... at least at that med school that's obsessed with MCAT scores... you know. Many of my non-medical friends have made comments about how these med students can't carry on a normal two-way conversation and at parties usually stick together and talk about school. It's pretty sad, really, that these future doctors don't bother to ask about or listen to what's going on in other people's lives.

From an outsiders view (since people on this board love to point out that I'm not yet in medical school) I think most doctors are not aholes, but just appear to be very self-centered and many people in other high-powered careers (business) can be aholes but appear to be less so. Business students know how to listen and converse enough to make connections in the outside world. They appear less self-centered because they know how completely rude and boring it is to talk about themselves all day. They would be very unsuccessful that way. People in medicine, on the other hand, only work their way up the ladder by making connections with other people in medicine... they never have to train themselves to talk about things other than their job.

 

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