Mentioning Naturopathic Doctor on AMCAS

[Hermione707]

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Hi fellow student doctors,

I'm currently working on my activities section of the AMCAS application and I was wondering whether I should include my shadowing experience with a naturopathic doctor. It was a very short experience (about 8 hours). I was going to mention how this experience taught me about the importance of assessing a patient holistically during diagnosis. This is the only shadowing experience I have since 2011 (when I shadowed a few physicians outside of North America). However, since I'm applying for MD programs I'm wondering whether mentioning this experience would be frowned upon by the Adcoms.

Any insight would help.
Thank you!

 

[whoknows2012]

Hi fellow student doctors,

I'm currently working on my activities section of the AMCAS application and I was wondering whether I should include my shadowing experience with a naturopathic doctor. It was a very short experience (about 8 hours). I was going to mention how this experience taught me about the importance of assessing a patient holistically during diagnosis. This is the only shadowing experience I have since 2011 (when I shadowed a few physicians outside of North America). However, since I'm applying for MD programs I'm wondering whether mentioning this experience would be frowned upon by the Adcoms.

Any insight would help.
Thank you!

In all honesty if I was on an admission committee and I read that on an app I’d immediately toss it to the side. Absolutely leave it out

 

[IMreshopeful]

I would probably leave it off. Also seems like this is the wrong sub forum

 

[Tenk]

Might as well say you spent an afternoon shadowing a duck at the park.

Quack, quack, quack.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Moving to pre-allo. Regardless of if you mention it, you really need some additional shadowing unless you have some more recent clinical experience.

 

[Hermione707]

Okay. Thanks for everyone's insight!

 

[Goro]

Might as well say you spent an afternoon shadowing a duck at the park.

Quack, quack, quack.

😆😆😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣

 

[LizzyM]

Stop. If you have not shadowing a medical doctor (MD or DO) in the US in the last 7 years, do not apply this cycle. Seriously. If you disregard this advice and apply anyway, please put a note on your calendar and come back next year to this thread and tell us how things turned out for you.

 

[Hermione707]

Stop. If you have not shadowing a medical doctor (MD or DO) in the US in the last 7 years, do not apply this cycle. Seriously. If you disregard this advice and apply anyway, please put a note on your calendar and come back next year to this thread and tell us how things turned out for you.

I'm a Canadian student. It's very hard to find shadowing experiences here 🙁 But I'm trying to find an opportunity before submitting my application. Thanks for the advice!

 

[seekere]

So you want to apply to medical school, one of the most competitive graduate schools in the world (especiallllly Canada and US) with your only exposure to clinical life being that of shadowing a salesman of fake, likely dangerous snake oil? That's like wanting to join the military and then when asked why you say "I loved the idea of serving my country when I was part of ISIS." Why would anybody want to take you?

 

[Hermione707]

So you want to apply to medical school, one of the most competitive graduate schools in the world (especiallllly Canada and US) with your only exposure to clinical life being that of shadowing a salesman of fake, likely dangerous snake oil? That's like wanting to join the military and then when asked why you say "I loved the idea of serving my country when I was part of ISIS." Why would anybody want to take you?

I do have extensive clinical experience just not direct physician shadowing.

 

[seekere]

I do have extensive clinical experience just not direct physician shadowing.

Shadowing is a pre-requisite...you can't apply to medical school without a good bit of it regardless of your other experiences. I really hope you purge all the naturopathic stuff off your application, and more importantly, understand why naturopathy is dangerous and BS

 

[getdown]

You might want to reconsider applying this cycle. You're about to waste a whole lot of money.

 

[Catalystik]

Shadowing is a pre-requisite...you can't apply to medical school without a good bit of it regardless of your other experiences. I really hope you purge all the naturopathic stuff off your application, and more importantly, understand why naturopathy is dangerous and BS

The vast majority of med schools do not list shadowing as a prerequisite on their website. Adcomms from schools that accept Canadians understand that there are parts of Canada where shadowing is near-impossible to acquire. OP's lack of shadowing is likely to be overshadowed by her strong clinical experience, provided the naturopathic practitioner is not mentioned.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Hi fellow student doctors,

I'm currently working on my activities section of the AMCAS application and I was wondering whether I should include my shadowing experience with a naturopathic doctor. It was a very short experience (about 8 hours). I was going to mention how this experience taught me about the importance of assessing a patient holistically during diagnosis. This is the only shadowing experience I have since 2011 (when I shadowed a few physicians outside of North America). However, since I'm applying for MD programs I'm wondering whether mentioning this experience would be frowned upon by the Adcoms.

Any insight would help.
Thank you!

Why not add Witch Doctor?

 

[Hermione707]

The vast majority of med schools do not list shadowing as a prerequisite on their website. Adcomms from schools that accept Canadians understand that there are parts of Canada where shadowing is near-impossible to acquire. OP's lack of shadowing is likely to be overshadowed by her strong clinical experience, provided the naturopathic practitioner is not mentioned.

Definitely excluding the naturopathic experience! Thanks for the insight, Catalystik.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Why is it hard to find a doctor to shadow in areas of Canada? Surely there are physicians almost everywhere?

 

[ciestar]

Why is it hard to find a doctor to shadow in areas of Canada? Surely there are physicians almost everywhere?

From what ive seen on here, they just tend to not allow it

 

[RNtoMD87]

That's odd. They don't want new students to learn?

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Why is it hard to find a doctor to shadow in areas of Canada? Surely there are physicians almost everywhere?

Probably stricter rules for confidentiality and what not

 

[RNtoMD87]

Doesn't sound super conducive to promoting medicine as a field.

 

[trobinsonmd]

Not sure if this is the general consensus, but if it came through our adcom, I think I would toss it.. from a cost benefit perspective... it can do virtually 0 good and a pretty good amount of damage... definitely something I would leave off

 

[RNtoMD87]

Why is Canada so big on naturopathic quackery?

 

[Kpw101]

Okay 1 joke was funny, but it's just getting distasteful now lol.

OP, someone mentioned that Canada can be a hard place to shadow so I'm guessing you'll be okay with strong clinical experiences. Several of my friends in the U.S also go to these programs that allow them to shadow Doctors for weeks at a time. This might be an option for you provided you have the financial means to come and spend a couple to a few weeks down here!

I just pulled this while googling: UWMC Clinical Observations ("shadowing") | UW Medicine. You can find a cheap BnB to stay at for maybe a week and can probably squeeze in 20-40 hours + make a nice little vacay for yourself.

 

[drbatsandwich]

Okay 1 joke was funny, but it's just getting distasteful now lol.

OP, someone mentioned that Canada can be a hard place to shadow so I'm guessing you'll be okay with strong clinical experiences. Several of my friends in the U.S also go to these programs that allow them to shadow Doctors for weeks at a time. This might be an option for you provided you have the financial means to come and spend a couple to a few weeks down here!

I just pulled this while googling: UWMC Clinical Observations ("shadowing") | UW Medicine. You can find a cheap BnB to stay at for maybe a week and can probably squeeze in 20-40 hours + make a nice little vacay for yourself.

This! I'm using my break between summer and fall semesters to spend a solid two weeks shadowing nonstop. It really is a requirement. Think about it - it's already going to be harder for you being an international student. Do you want something as trivial as lack of shadowing experience to add another obstacle? If you can't make a vacation out of it, I'd suggest you just go from walk-in clinic to walk-in clinic and beg until someone cuts you a break 😀

If it really can't be helped, maybe find a way to work this fact into your application somewhere.

 

[kelminak]

Doesn't sound super conducive to promoting medicine as a field.

Something tells me that Canada isn't struggling for applicants...

 

[Isoval]

Shadowing is a pre-requisite...you can't apply to medical school without a good bit of it regardless of your other experiences. I really hope you purge all the naturopathic stuff off your application, and more importantly, understand why naturopathy is dangerous and BS

Anecdotally, I got four interviews in TMDSAS with zero shadowing experience since beginning college

 

[seekere]

Anecdotally, I got four interviews in TMDSAS with zero shadowing experience since beginning college

And my cousins friend got into med school with a 2.9 gpa

 

[Isoval]

And my cousins friend got into med school with a 2.9 gpa

Your cousin’s friend sounds like a cool dude

 

[seekere]

Your cousin’s friend sounds like a cool dude

Yeah he read personal statements for food

 

[dr.grenouille]

Serious question tho:

“Naturopathic physicians are clinically trained primary care physicians who have graduated from a four-year naturopathic medical school.”

That’s directly from the AANMC website. How are they allowed to make the claim that they’re “clinically trained primary care physicians???”

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Serious question tho:

“Naturopathic physicians are clinically trained primary care physicians who have graduated from a four-year naturopathic medical school.”

That’s directly from the AANMC website. How are they allowed to make the claim that they’re “clinically trained primary care physicians???”

This is also on their website:

“NDs can perform minor surgeries, such as removing cysts or stitching up superficial wounds.”

In some states they are considered physicians by statute. It is absurd. In AZ, these quacks can prescribe medication and perform superficial surgery legally under their licenses.

 

[Unlimited Apps]

This is also on their website:

“NDs can perform minor surgeries, such as removing cysts or stitching up superficial wounds.”

In some states they are considered physicians by statute. It is absurd. In AZ, these quacks can prescribe medication and perform superficial surgery legally under their licenses.

That last point is ridiculous. The fact that they call it a "medical school" blows my mind.

 

[atomi]

Hi fellow student doctors,

I'm currently working on my activities section of the AMCAS application and I was wondering whether I should include my shadowing experience with a naturopathic doctor. It was a very short experience (about 8 hours). I was going to mention how this experience taught me about the importance of assessing a patient holistically during diagnosis. This is the only shadowing experience I have since 2011 (when I shadowed a few physicians outside of North America). However, since I'm applying for MD programs I'm wondering whether mentioning this experience would be frowned upon by the Adcoms.

Any insight would help.
Thank you!

A lot of MDs consider naturopathic "doctors" (or NDs as they cutely call themselves) not only quacks, but actually con-artists.
When you give patients "alternative" treatments for cancer besides chemo and radiation, you kill them. Killing people is bad. Making money off of killing people is especially bad.
By mentioning this, you run a very high risk of having somebody think you're cool with killing people for money.
Act accordingly.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

This is also on their website:

“NDs can perform minor surgeries, such as removing cysts or stitching up superficial wounds.”

In some states they are considered physicians by statute. It is absurd. In AZ, these quacks can prescribe medication and perform superficial surgery legally under their licenses.

What licensing do they possess that would allow that

 

[LizzyM]

[

What licensing do they possess that would allow that

About | Naturopathic Physicians Medical Board

 

[Osminog]

ND: Not Doctor.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What licensing do they possess that would allow that

The magical thinking that runs through this country is disturbing.

 

[parabellum]

Might as well say you spent an afternoon shadowing a duck at the park.

Quack, quack, quack.

That made me lol.