MFT - for the birds?

[gene_halpert]

I’ve posted a bit in the psych forums, but this question feels more relevant here.

background; I’m a practicing genetic counselor. I enjoy many aspects of my job but would really love to perform psychotherapy. I also enjoy research and am fortunate to be involved in it in my current position.

I’ve been thinking about a counseling psych PhD, but I’m still unsure about the (huge) time and financial commitment that would require - even a funded program would be a significant loss of income. I also know admissions are competitive for these programs.

So I’ve been thinking about other routes. I’m really curious about people’s thoughts about MFTs. I enjoy my work with families and would be particularly interested in performing family medical therapy and psychotherapy for adjustment to chronic illness.
However, I have concerns. Are MFTs well respected by other mental health professionals? Are they largely evidence-based? Does a systems perspective not leave room for other orientations? And Why is the average reported pay so low? I could feasibly support income with genetics stiff but really! I don’t know why anyone would get a masters degree for a career with a $50,000 average salary.

I know in general to stay away from online programs/programs by for-profit universities, but would love any general advice. Thanks in advance.

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[pediatric_psydoc]

“I don’t know why anyone would get a masters degree for a career with a $50,000 average salary.”

How much money do you think is reasonable for a masters level provider when those with doctoral degrees are making $79,000, according to the median salary reported by the BLS? Put the $50,000 salary in perspective.

I can only attest to my experience with MFTs and I can say I haven’t been impressed due to their lack of application of EBP. Also LPCs and MFTs don’t have a good reputation among the medical doctors with whom I work.

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[foreverbull]

Are MFTs well respected by other mental health professionals? Are they largely evidence-based? Does a systems perspective not leave room for other orientations? And Why is the average reported pay so low? I could feasibly support income with genetics stiff but really! I don’t know why anyone would get a masters degree for a career with a $50,000 average salary.

I know in general to stay away from online programs/programs by for-profit universities, but would love any general advice. Thanks in advance.

As a psychologist, I honestly prefer to refer to psychologists because of the higher standard of training and several more years of coursework and supervision, and I find that while there are poor practitioners under any degree, there tend to be more under master’s level licensure, and I say this having first obtained a masters in a different program before my doctorate (and feeing very unprepared to join the workforce after just two years of superficial coursework/training). I also notice that master’s level folks seem to be more likely to practice outside of their competence.

With that said, I know some amazing master’s level practitioners whom I would have no qualms about referring to because I worked side by side with them a few years back. In my area, sometimes I have to refer to master’s level folks due to unavailability of psychologists and clients’ inability to travel far, but I’m always hesitant when I don’t know them well—there’s a lot of variability in skill, professionalism, and training.

Out in the community, there are a ton of master’s level therapists, so the competition is great. Pay is low because there are so many therapists out there—supply and demand. Also our field is undervalued because it’s related to social services and is also female-dominated, I would infer. When women enter a field in large numbers, the pay decreases; there have been studies showing this.

If you would like to pursue a master’s, make sure it is a good, solid reputation program that is CACREP-accredited at the very least and teaches evidence-based practice as you prefer, and yes, your salary will stay relatively low unless you build your way up over time in private practice (not as easy as it sounds by any means).

 

[R. Matey]

I wouldn't recommend a master's in counseling or marriage and family therapy to anyone I know. The amount of invested resources for the modal payout just isn't worth it. Seriously, being a teacher is a better gig. That said, I do know of some LPCs/LMFTs who make more than ~$50k. In my experience, it's because they have contracts with the state to provide counseling to mandated clients. I've also known a few in private practice who have done pretty well. These people usually are either (a) seeing a lot of clients at a lower reimbursement rate and are very busy or (b) live somewhere where there aren't many other therapists to choose from.

Also, why not an MSW? You can do psychotherapy with that degree and it's typically more respected than the LPC or LMFT.

 

[gene_halpert]

All, thank you - greatly appreciate all your candid advice. I guess for now I’ll continue mulling over other options. The reason I was thinking not MSW is because I’m frankly just not interested in the case management stuff. But obviously should be something to still consider.

 

[R. Matey]

All, thank you - greatly appreciate all your candid advice. I guess for now I’ll continue mulling over other options. The reason I was thinking not MSW is because I’m frankly just not interested in the case management stuff. But obviously should be something to still consider.

Some MSW programs are more clinically focused on providing psychotherapy. Admittedly, I’m not a social worker and don’t know much more than this. I think in certain settings you won’t make more than an LPC, but I think an LCSW will give you access to certain positions that an LPC won’t. This could mean a better income, but I couldn’t say for sure.


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[pediatric_psydoc]

All, thank you - greatly appreciate all your candid advice. I guess for now I’ll continue mulling over other options. The reason I was thinking not MSW is because I’m frankly just not interested in the case management stuff. But obviously should be something to still consider.

Keep in mind this is just my anecdotal experience, but when I was a predoc intern at an acute inpatient psychiatric hospital, there was a LCSW clinician who worked on the children’s unit who was great at delivering CBT interventions in both individual and group format. Her case management duties were minimal and her duties were predominantly clinically focused in nature.

 

[deleted343839]

would be particularly interested in performing family medical therapy and psychotherapy for adjustment to chronic illness

I do the latter in my day-to-day work so feel free to PM if you want to discuss further.

Psychology is the longer but more versatile option for this type of work. For master's level training, I think the LCSW path would potentially give you more access to career opportunities in medical settings. Ideally you could attend a program that already offers a lot of exposure and supervision in medical family therapy, but if not there are also postgraduate certificate programs such as this: Medical Family Therapy | Graduate Studies | Nebraska

 

[jtpesek]

Do your own due-diligent research. There have been some very broad statements made here about what licensure is more respected and/or has higher income potential. ALL of this depends on what state, what format (private practice, owner/group, hospital or agency, etc) you work with or for and also how much you put into your own post-graduate education as a clinician (and of-course the accreditation of the graduate program as that can greatly influence the licensure outcomes in some states). Here in Alabama, LPCs working 5 days a week can easily make $96,000 + annually working FOR a group private practice.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

There have been some very broad statements made here

in Alabama, LPCs working 5 days a week can easily make $96,000 + annually working FOR a group private practice.

I’m not sure how representative that is for most places and most salaries for LPCs. Though, I’m sure this is possible.

 

[jtpesek]

I’m not sure how representative that is for most places and most salaries for LPCs. Though, I’m sure this is possible.

That is a fair statement - I suppose someone would have to be willing to move or maybe start their own practice as well.


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