MGH vs. Brigham and Women's

[bobbyseal]

Given the choice, which would you take, MGH or Brigham and Women's general surgery residency? I know both of these residencies are probably on many people's dream lists, but I'm just curious what people think.

From getting to know som Brigham residents, I'd have to say that they are ridiculously solid. I don't think there is a thing such as an immature intern from the Brigham. Even the prelims who aren't even going into gen surg are solid. The only thing that may be annoying to some is the fact that the residency is 7 years, 5 clinical + 2 research.

On a side note, how many hospitals do you know are referred to as THE _______ Hospital. It's like pro football players saying they went to THE Ohio State University. You never hear of someone saying they did a residency at THE Stanford University hospital. But, you do hear people say all the time, about THE Brigham. I'll stop rambling.

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[Crimson&Clover]

i'm just curious: does the extra two years of research required at brigham bug anyone else???? i would rank it number one, except for this fact and the fact that its in boston, which appears to be a thoroughly dreary city to me. (or maybe i just didn't see the hipper sections)

 

[geekgirl]

i'd like to restart this thread.
what's the difference between the 2? i know they're both hot programs, but i don't know the difference between the 2 hospitals.
help.

 

[Blade28]

I know the interview process is much more benign at the Brigham.

 

[Wondering]

Having been around both hospitals, I would have to say I would chose MGH. There are many reasons - but I think one of the most telling is the fact that MGH has had only one surgical resident leave in the past 20 years, while Brigham's program has been ravaged in recent years with people leaving. Either way, though, you can't go wrong. Ultimately, if you are fortunate enough to be able to choose between the two you just have to find the one that fits your personality better. MGH is made up of more serious, focused, and probably smarter (with regards to medicine) residents, while Brigham is made up of probably more well-rounded, research-oriented residents. Over-generalizations of course, but nevertheless some truth. Another point is that MGH also is much stronger across the board in all specialities.

 

[doc05]

can you say "splitting hairs??" both are excellent GS programs. let's just leave it at that.

 

[HMS '05]

Although in fairness, the one MGH resident who did "leave" the program did so by tricking an ER intern to give him an IV line, and then when the intern had left the surgical resident pushed enough KCl to kill a horse. I think that was about 10 years ago. And while the Brigham used to be an incredibly malignant program, I think it has supposedly mellowed in recent years, and certainly has a better call schedule than the General does at this point. All that being said, I agree that I would choose MGH over Brigham for surgery almost any day. MGH has one of the last "true" surgical ward services, where residents operate solely with oversight from a senior teaching resident rather than just cutting sutures for attendings (of course, you get to do that as well on the Private service). . . .

Having been around both hospitals, I would have to say I would chose MGH. There are many reasons - but I think one of the most telling is the fact that MGH has had only one surgical resident leave in the past 20 years, while Brigham's program has been ravaged in recent years with people leaving. Either way, though, you can't go wrong. Ultimately, if you are fortunate enough to be able to choose between the two you just have to find the one that fits your personality better. MGH is made up of more serious, focused, and probably smarter (with regards to medicine) residents, while Brigham is made up of probably more well-rounded, research-oriented residents. Over-generalizations of course, but nevertheless some truth. Another point is that MGH also is much stronger across the board in all specialities.

 

[Dire Straits]

Although in fairness, the one MGH resident who did "leave" the program did so by tricking an ER intern to give him an IV line, and then when the intern had left the surgical resident pushed enough KCl to kill a horse.

i believe i read a brief passage about this incident in a book written by a harvard med graduate a few years ago.i don't remember the name of the book or the author right now but i recall the author being female. very unfortunate incident and really puts things into perspective: just because you succeed at getting into a dream residency does not mean much in the big scheme of things. you never know what's around the corner.

 

[jj6]

Given the choice, I would definitely take the Brigham, for more reasons than I can list here. Having also spent time at both programs, IMHO, I think the Brigham residents are better trained and happier, more well-rounded people. I feel that they have better technical skills, especially laparoscopically, and more experience taking care of complicated / sick patients. The relationship with the attendings is also better, probably due to the chair and program director, who are amazing people who really care about the residents. Brigham residents rotate through the VA and community hospitals, which I feel provides for a more well-rounded, training experience and the chance to learn how things are done outside of an academic center. The Brigham is (relatively) less inbred and has produced a huge number of surgical leaders around the country (past or current chairs at Duke, Michigan, WashU, UCSF, Sloan Kettering).

The main negatives of the Brigham are the lack of liver transplant and low operative trauma. MGH gets more trauma, though most penetrating trauma in Boston goes to BUMC. Brigham doesn't do livers, though the lack of fellows means the pgy3 does the kidneys. You get the experience of taking care of liver tx pts at the General, but the few cases usually have attendings double scrubbed + the fellow, given their small volume. The ward service was a positive at the MGH in the past, although the majority of cases are trach / pegs, toe amps, hernias, etc. It also looks like the ward is going to be gone in the few years, given the difficulty attracting people for the ward chief job and the new attending run 'trauma surgery' service.

At the end of the day, both are fantastic training programs, though with distinct personalities and feels. As others have said, you have to rotate at the programs, talk to residents, and see for yourself.

 

[Khirurg]

Is that Atul Gawande you talking about and his book "Complications"?

 

[Docxter]

On a side note, how many hospitals do you know are referred to as THE _______ Hospital. It's like pro football players saying they went to THE Ohio State University. You never hear of someone saying they did a residency at THE Stanford University hospital. But, you do hear people say all the time, about THE Brigham. I'll stop rambling.

Well, some people call it "THE GENERAL" if that's what your looking for.

 

[Blade28]

"Complications" is a great book. I highly recommend it. He's a very nice guy, too.

 

[Dire Straits]

no the book was not "complications". it was written by a female harvard graduate.

 

[sandg]

Perhaps it is "Not an Entirely Benign Procedure" or something along those lines. I believe that book is written by a female Harvard grad, although I have not read it and can't be sure.