MGH vs. Hopkins

[Friendly]

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I am having the worst time time deciding where to rank these two categorical programs. Obviously, they have a very different feel to them, but they are similar in many ways.

I am interested in a lot of autonomy, but I am also interested in working with humble, collegial residents (MGH is easily winning in that regard--based on my own interview day experience--which I appreciate can vary depending on who you are exposed to).

The city makes no difference to me. I'd appreciate any input from fellow interviewees or current residents.

 

[divel]

So here's my take on the atmospheres- I agree that the MGH residents were more humble, and I think part of that is a trickle down effect from the PD (both with MGH residents being more humble and Hopkins residents being confident that they were getting the absolute best clinical training anyhwere). BUt I thought that both were extremely collegial and the Hopkins cockiness was more directed externally than internally, so while it may still be a bit obnoxious, maybe it wouldn't impact your relationship with your colleagues. I actually thought that the Hopkins residents were some of the happiest most cohesive residents I saw anywhere (despite the fact that they seem to have more call months than any other program (10???) and never ever ever sleep on call)
On the other hand, I thought the MGH residents seemed more tired and less happy than I'd seen at other programs, but this may also be because I interviewed right after the holidays and I think we were ALL tired. (Would love to here others' opinions on this). The MGH residents also seemed a little defensive sometimes, but I think this is a factor of the Harvard rivalries.
MGH loves its Bigelow, Hopkins loves its firms- I think both sound fantastic. Teaching, etc seems comparable. Don't really dig the idea of private patients at MGH. MGH has a more diverse patient population and Boston is cooler. MGH's autonomy seems a little bit more "appropriate" to me.
Anyway, for me MGH is above Hopkins because I know I would be a miserable zombie being q4 for 10 months and never sleeping on call for q4 for 7-8 for 24 hours and I like the MGH vibe better and Boston is cooler, but that's just me and my priorities.....

 

[Friendly]

Thanks for your input. Yes, with the exception of Q3 unit experiences at Hopkins, it's pretty much 30 hours in house Q4 call for 10.5 months vs. MGH 24 hours Q4 for around 7 months. I'm hearing that Hopkins interns can still push toward 100 hours each week. I did note that the Hopkins residents seemed more alert and rested, while the MGH residents seemed more beat up. I didn't feel MGH was defensive, however. I interviewed at Hopkins before the holiday and MGH right after the holiday. I have no problem with hard work and assuming responsibility (I'll eat those words as an intern this year, I know), but I am just not going to rank a program that I perceive breads cockiness and I'm not really into clubby atmospheres. That's not why I went to medical school. My discomfort comes only in the style I perceive both programs to adopt. MGH was welcoming and polite. Hopkins didn't even try..... I think the best solution would be to schedule second looks at both places. Again, I absolutely understand that I may have just been fortunate in one place and unfortunate in another with regard to who I was exposed to.

 

[divel]

OK, so purely from an attitude/atmosphere perspective, the MGH residents all seemed super collegial, but I was a little concerned that some of the faculty may not be very accessible/approachable. Perhaps not in comparison to Hopkins but more in comparison to other top programs. That doesn't come from any experience I had directly with the faculty- all of my interviewers were wonderful--- more from residents talking about paging private attendings and trying to find research. Anyone else?

 

[Cardsgeek]

Many of the MGH residents I spoke with talked about nice dinners out with their Bigelow (& other service) attendings...making me think that they're as accessible as anywhere else. I was at both MGH & JH pre-holiday, and thought that both groups of residents seemed amazingly upbeat. I agree w/ divel that the JH resident's cockiness is directed externally, since so many people that don't get interviews at JH feel free to bash it for being so "intense & malignant". I did not get that vibe AT ALL when I was there. I think that both programs are stellar, and would personally side with whichever city works best for you personally...you can't go wrong!

 

[mrravioli]

I was a prelim intern last year at MGH and can say that hands down, I had a wonderful year. Not only did I get great training, but I made some lifelong friends. With regard to the faculty, I had incredibly good interactions with them. Even on the private service where you deal with multiple attendings, they were almost universally easily accessible and wanted to be called about any concerns and issues that came up. I think the earlier post that states that the tone of the program is set by the PD is very true. Hasan Bazari at MGH is a most amazing individual, not just with regard to his wonderful clinical acumen but more importantly for residents, with regard to his humility and dedication to the residency program. Until I started interviewing, I didn't realize how important it is to have a PD you can count on and relate to. Wherever you go, residency is going to be tough and tests us all in different ways. Because of this, it's a great feeling to know that there are people in your program who remember and care about what it's like to be a resident (fortunately there are many people like this at MGH). It's an even better feeling when one of these people is in a position of influence (i.e., a PD) who can really get your back if you need them to.

I'm sure Hopkins has a great set up too, but I just wanted to pass along a bit about my experiences at MGH.

Good luck with the match everyone!

 

[Neurontin]

This is an interesting conversation, since I'm poised with the same decision. I go to Hopkins as a medical student, and honestly, have never seen a bunch of more accomplished, and more friendly house staff than the likes of those I've met at Hopkins. That being said, however, I did not get the impression that MGH was a place where people were unhappy either. I think stylistically, they both are the same. They have different ways of practicing medicine - Hopkins lives for the Firm system, and MGH loves the Bigelow.

I've seen many people here trash Hopkins because of the intense call schedule. This was something that I was concerned about myself. But let's look at the way call Schedules are distributed. This is a listing of the number of on-call months.

--------------------JHH--------------- MGH
PGY 1-------------- 10.5 ----------------8
PGY 2--------------- 5 -----------------7.5
PGY 3----------------5 ----------------- 5
TOTAL-------------- 20.5--------------- 20.5

So, both MGH and Hopkins have the same number of call months over the 3-yr residency. The difference, then, is whether you want most of it upfront or whether you want it diluted over 3 yrs. Either way you will work the same amount. One of the MGH residents who went to med school at Hopkins gave me one of th best views on this: he said "At Hopkins, you will mature much faster as a physician, than at MGH or BWH. But over 3 years the quality of physicians will be comparable."

I think ultimately, you're splitting hairs on the difference. In my opinion JHH is as good as MGH. MGH is as good as BWH. They just have different styles. Find which style suits you best, or find which city you're more partial to. If you like Boston better than Baltimore -- go for MGH. If you like Baltimore better (and yes, there are some of us who do), then go for JHH.

Hope this helps.

 

[Friendly]

Thanks for the first-hand account, Neurontin! Plenty of others on SDN could probably give their two cents worth, but I guess they're all shy.

 

[Greenman]

Did anyone else feel that the Hopkins interns/residents were a more positive group compared to similar programs? I really do not want to work in an environment where everyone sits around griping.

 

[hopkinsIM]

am currently a resident at hopkins and absolutely love it.

as long as you work hard you will do well in any of the top tier academic IM programs.

going for a 2nd look is a great idea if you can't quite decide where you fit in best.

compared to MGH & BWH---we do have more call months as interns. even though some people don't sleep on call as interns, others of us certainly do! not just making this up either 🙂 although the 1st few months are a difficult adjustment to the q4 inpatient call cycle...once you get the hang of it, it's CERTAINLY possible to squeeze in sleep.

and as a 2nd/3rd year resident the decreased amount of call is definitely worth it. good luck to all in the application process...

 

[KeepOnTruckin31]

Kinda wondering how all of this changes with the new work hour restrictions, PD, etc.

 

[medicinelover1]

Good thread. I would love to get some updated feedback.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Kinda wondering how all of this changes with the new work hour restrictions, PD, etc.

Not a whole lot has changed at Hopkins, with the exception of how things are structured. The structure is constantly changing to figure out ways to maximize the clinical experience while making it as painless as possible. Things are inherently less efficient when there are more hand-offs.

Interns still take "call" but it isn't the same as the old 30 hour shift. Really it is broken down into 2 days so that you take day call and night call. It remains a very intern run program so that you are the "point of the wedge." The expectation is still the same; you are going to work hard and you are going to learn a lot by doing. You continue to get the same kind of didactics with bedside ACS rounds every day and daily noon conferences.

The one thing that struck me about hopkins was that it was very heavy clinically- and I mean this in a good way. If you want to be a strong clinician, I think Hopkins is probably the best training you can get. This is not to say that MGH won't be excellent as well, but I thought the clinical training at Hopkins was stronger. The one thing that has struck me about the Baltimore population is just how sick they are, which again, I think delivers excellent training. The Baltimore population is great for training and I think is a better learning population that what is seen at MGH.

The programs have different feels. Some people will favor MGH while others will favor Hopkins. Obviously, both are in very different cities. Baltimore is a very small city while Boston is a larger city. Some people would be only happy in Boston and think B-more is a shthole. Baltimore is not exactly a beautiful city but I have been pretty happy here. Also, let's be honest- you're not going to have a lot of time to explore whatever city you end up in. I still have to mapquest my way to Target.

Both MGH and Hopkins will deliver good to excellent clinical training and both will give you ample opportunities for research. I personally didn't like MGH when I went. Many have had the same feeling about Hopkins. I think it is gonig to be personal preference. You really can't go wrong with either.

If this is your big decision during match selection, you should consider yourself lucky. Both will get you where you want to go.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Not a whole lot has changed at Hopkins, with the exception of how things are structured. The structure is constantly changing to figure out ways to maximize the clinical experience while making it as painless as possible. Things are inherently less efficient when there are more hand-offs.

Interns still take "call" but it isn't the same as the old 30 hour shift. Really it is broken down into 2 days so that you take day call and night call. It remains a very intern run program so that you are the "point of the wedge." The expectation is still the same; you are going to work hard and you are going to learn a lot by doing. You continue to get the same kind of didactics with bedside ACS rounds every day and daily noon conferences.

The one thing that struck me about hopkins was that it was very heavy clinically- and I mean this in a good way. If you want to be a strong clinician, I think Hopkins is probably the best training you can get. This is not to say that MGH won't be excellent as well, but I thought the clinical training at Hopkins was stronger. The one thing that has struck me about the Baltimore population is just how sick they are, which again, I think delivers excellent training. The Baltimore population is great for training and I think is a better learning population that what is seen at MGH.

The programs have different feels. Some people will favor MGH while others will favor Hopkins. Obviously, both are in very different cities. Baltimore is a very small city while Boston is a larger city. Some people would be only happy in Boston and think B-more is a shthole. Baltimore is not exactly a beautiful city but I have been pretty happy here. Also, let's be honest- you're not going to have a lot of time to explore whatever city you end up in. I still have to mapquest my way to Target.

Both MGH and Hopkins will deliver good to excellent clinical training and both will give you ample opportunities for research. I personally didn't like MGH when I went. Many have had the same feeling about Hopkins. I think it is gonig to be personal preference. You really can't go wrong with either.

If this is your big decision during match selection, you should consider yourself lucky. Both will get you where you want to go.

One of the things making Hopkins stand out (as pointed out here) is that everything goes through the intern who is front and center. There is a massive amount of front-loaded autonomy.

Not sure I agree that Baltimore has a sicker population than any major city, however. Boston, New York, and L.A. by virtue of size and diversity present an equally challenging pathology.

In the end, keep in mind that any internal medicine program in a reasonably big city will give you 'substrate'. The rest really is up to you.

 

[KeepOnTruckin07]

Uh oh, what are we going to do with the new usnews hospital rankings....? Lol

 

[Instatewaiter]

Uh oh, what are we going to do with the new usnews hospital rankings....? Lol

Well considering they had to change the rankings this year to make Hopkins not number 1 for the 22nd year in a row, people will do the exact same thing we did with the US new rankings before... use them for basically nothing.

As an aside, I wondered if US news feels silly ranking MGH #1 overall when MGH isn't #1 or #2 in a single specialty and is outranked by hopkins in 13 out of 16 specialties. It kinda goes to show how worthless the rankings are. Maybe this will be the kick in the pants hopkins needs to make some much needed changes.

 

[RunningMan]

Well considering they had to change the rankings this year to make Hopkins not number 1 for the 22nd year in a row, people will do the exact same thing we did with the US new rankings before... use them for basically nothing.

As an aside, I wondered if US news feels silly ranking MGH #1 overall when MGH isn't #1 or #2 in a single specialty and is outranked by hopkins in 13 out of 16 specialties. It kinda goes to show how worthless the rankings are. Maybe this will be the kick in the pants hopkins needs to make some much needed changes.

Gotta sell magazines...

Once the announcement was made, the entire staff at MGH got a cookie...seriously. Other than that, there's now a few new billboards around town, but life goes on.