Michigan State CHM vs Wayne State

[carey113]

Hello, I am choosing between Michigan State and Wayne State. They are both MD programs and in-state for me. Tuition will be similar. I am interested in academic medicine and would like to do a lot of clinical research in medical school. Please help me decide, especially from Michigan students who are familiar with both schools.

Michigan State
Pros

• beautiful, urban campus at Grand Rapids
• no exams, flexible learning through Shared Discovery Learning curriculum
• early clinical exposure
• perfect class size of 95 students per campus
• new facilities

Cons

• Step 1 score is national average
• may be harder to match into more competitive programs in East/West coast
• does not focus on research

Wayne State
Pros

• cool to live in Detroit!
• objectively has better match list than MSU
• more research opportunities
• learn about practicing urban medicine

Cons

• It has P/F/honors P system. With 92% score needed for Honors Pass. That will be very stressful to achieve.
• Frequent exams
• has a traditional curriculum with clinical exposure focused in 3rd and 4th year primarily
• massive class size of 300 people; this also creates more competition amongst students since it's larger class size.

Summary: Both schools have important pros and cons. I am a bit turned off by MSU's limited match list, but I also do not like Wayne State's honors pass system and frequent examination. I am afraid that I'll get lost in the crowd at Wayne State; but I would like to be a medical school professor one day so research is very important to me. Please help!

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[libertyyne]

Wayne.
More research, more clinical research, more alumni connections in academia, more name recognition nationally.
You also might need to relocate during the last two years of MSUCHM.

 

[mackie10]

As far as I know, the curriculum has changed for Wayne students (the class of 2022 being the first year for this new curriculum https://highways.med.wayne.edu/overview). Also heard that you will still be getting clinical exposure and preparation in 1st or 2nd year (just not the same extent as 3rd and 4th year). Did you get the chance to attend their Second Look Day?

(Also I think that Wayne is no longer pass/fail/honors for incoming students. They said you had the option for honors but that it's not p/f/honors like before [Source: https://admissions.med.wayne.edu/faqs])

 

[carey113]

Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to Second Look. I believe that Wayne is still pass/fail/honors pass in that you have to get 92% to honors pass at Wayne. Thank you for the information.

 

[Gilakend]

Michigan resident here also accepted to both schools, in your situation I would pick Wayne. Bigger national name and much more research opportunities. Although I know people picking MSU over Wayne as well.

Both schools have cons at Wayne you might get "Wayne Stated" and at MSU you could not get GR for years 1 and 2 and also have to move again for years 3 and 4. MSU CHM also does the majority of their learning over the weekend in "weekend modules" which I would not be a fan of and they have 20-25 hours a week of required group activities i.e. no streaming for pretty much anything.

Congrats on having multiple acceptances!

 

[carey113]

Thanks for your response! Would u mind telling me what you mean by “Wayne Stated” or GR?

 

[libertyyne]

Thanks for your response! Would u mind telling me what you mean by “Wayne Stated” or GR?

Getting Wayned is a verb meaning to get screwed over by some administrative snafu.
GR =Grand rapids. Their campus assignments change after year 2 , so you might end up in flint or the UP.

 

[WSUMedStudent]

Wayne M2 here! I just went through the new and "improved" curriculum. It is systems-based P/F. The pass rate is based on the class average on the exam, though 70 and above will always be pass. Honors is decided at the end of the year, again, based on how the class did. It is still not set for us yet. It is an additional note on your transcript. You can honor academically, in research, or in clinical skills. There is roughly one NBME exam per unit. This year we had 7 exams total, with some units lumped together (eg. Endocrine/Reproductive/Heme/Lymph).

1st year (July to March) is systems based pre-clinical but each unit goes along with clinical skills assessments with Standardized Patients (SPs) to learn maneuvers as well as a public health course. Gross Anatomy and Histology run all year following the systems-based curriculum.
2nd year (April to December; then 3 months for STEP prep) is systems based pre-clinical. You will also take a Physical Diagnosis course with SPs again and a public health type course.
3rd/4th years are the clinical years.

Overall, the student body community it fantastic. Everyone is supportive of one another. Wayne has good ideas but the execution is often poor due to poor communication and an inability to adapt. You will learn the best way to study through trial and error and utilizing peers along with outside resources rather than relying on lectures.

 

[batatata]

I wouldn't worry about Step 1 for MSU-CHM. You will achieve your potential on the exam because you are given MONTHS of dedicated to study for it. If anything, if you want to deduce outcomes from pre-clinical years, you should go by potential to do well on Step 1. I honestly think that Step 1 potential is higher at MSU than the vast majority of medical schools. That being said, you will be limited in research opportunities compared to Wayne, especially if you wanted to do something M1 or M2.

That being said, Step scores are just "half" of your residency app. The other huge part comes from M3/M4 rotations. You can get screwed at MSU and end up in a city you don't like which can also limit your research and letter of recommendation opportunities. Also, some of the rotations seem a little strange i.e. only 1 month of internal medicine. However, at Wayne you can get Wayne Stated and potentially be screwed in another way especially when it comes to clerkship scheduling because a lot of that is out of the hands of the student.

The biggest thing Wayne has going for itself is that it has been Michigan's flagship public/state medical school for a LONG time (I don't really consider umich as Michigan's med school). The class is huge and a lot of really smart people from Michigan end up going to Wayne which is why, in my opinion, you see impressive matches (both with the types of specialties and the locations). I'm sure the Wayne network and reputation helps when applying to residency, but at the end of the day, the student is the reason why they are interviewing or matching at a top residency spot, not the school. You are comparing two pretty similar public schools. The difference is pretty marginal. This isn't like the boost one gets from attending a T10 medical school.

I was deciding between these schools before receiving an offer elsewhere. Given that the curriculum is much more chill during M1/M2 at MSU, the dedicated Step 1 period is much larger at MSU, and that the facilities and admin seem better at MSU, I was going to attend MSU.

Congrats for being in the position to have to make a hard decision like this lol. I honestly think you can't go wrong with either decision though, and you won't regret whatever choice you make. Both schools are great.

 

[premed9901]

I'm not sure where the "more research" is coming from, Michigan State has more research funding (~72,000,000) vs Wayne (~59,000,000)

 

[libertyyne]

I'm not sure where the "more research" is coming from, Michigan State has more research funding (~72,000,000) vs Wayne (~59,000,000)

where are you getting these numbers from ?
Every source I have looked at says that Wayne is higher ranked for research and has more dollars.

 

[premed9901]

where are you getting these numbers from ?
Every source I have looked at says that Wayne is higher ranked for research and has more dollars.

I saw the pictures you put up in another thread and just googled that. I googled "NIH awards by location and organization", clicked the first link, then control+f "wayne state" and "michigan state".

edit: https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm

 

[libertyyne]

I saw the pictures you put up in another thread and just googled that. I googled "NIH awards by location and organization", clicked the first link, then control+f "wayne state" and "michigan state".

edit: https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm

The MSUCHM does not constitute all MSU research funding. Some obviously gets split with the COM.


The BIMR website does direct comparisons where it places MSUCHM funding at half the level of wayne state. This is also excluding funding taken in by Henry ford.

This is the reason wayne is always listed above in terms of funding and rank.

 

[premed9901]

The MSUCHM does not constitute all MSU research funding. Some obviously gets split with the COM.


The BIMR website does direct comparisons where it places MSUCHM funding at half the level of wayne state. This is also excluding funding taken in by Henry ford.

This is the reason wayne is always listed above in terms of funding and rank.

Ah, good point, I see Henry Ford listed on there too with 28,000,000

 

[abnormalekg]

Wayne, better opportunities

Aren't you on the waitlist at CHM?

 

[Gilakend]

I already stated this but want to make sure it sticks: Also take into account curriculum. These schools have VASTLY different curriculums. I genuinely don’t think I would do well in MSU’s curriculum. It’s tons of required group activities that take up quite a bit of time from what I was told at second look. Also 1-2 days of weekend studying almost required. I don’t know much about Wayne’s curriculum because I didn’t go to their second look but I know it is largely lecture (streamable) based.

Important to note I would say 75% of students I talked to at MSU absolutely loved it. Others, like myself, would not like it. Really gotta think about how you’ll learn best.

 

[abnormalekg]

Interviewed for both schools, accepted at Wayne, waitlisted at CHM, but withdrew from CHM. Liked Wayne better, just giving my opinion.

If you are accepted at Wayne why are you interviewing for Temple's post-bacc program?

 

[UnderRepresentedMajority]

Applied as a backup plan, not needed anymore, any other questions?

Nobody’s calling you a liar. It’s just fishy you’ve commented on the which school threads of all the schools you’ve been waitlisted at (CHM, Tulane, etc) telling people to go to the option you’re not waitlisted at.

Also, here you commented that you have 0 acceptances and 3 waitlists four days ago: ZukosRedemption (u/ZukosRedemption) - Reddit

If you got into Wayne recently though, congrats.

 

[abnormalekg]

Nobody’s calling you a liar. It’s just fishy you’ve commented on the which school threads of all the schools you’ve been waitlisted at (CHM, Tulane, etc) telling people to go to the option you’re not waitlisted at.

Also, here you commented that you have 0 acceptances and 3 waitlists four days ago: ZukosRedemption (u/ZukosRedemption) - Reddit

If you got into Wayne recently though, congrats.

I'm definitely calling them a liar. No mention of Wayne in their post history here or on Reddit.

 

[UnderRepresentedMajority]

I'm definitely calling them a liar. No mention of Wayne in their post history here or on Reddit.

yeah, he's definitely being slimy since he deleted his reddit posts. i figured he would most likely do that so here they are: Gyazo

Pretty scummy thing to do, but the process is competitive so i don't blame him. 😉

 

[Dametimebaby]

I would go with Wayne since it's a better school, both schools do have new curriculums though.

 

[Dametimebaby]

Nobody’s calling you a liar. It’s just fishy you’ve commented on the which school threads of all the schools you’ve been waitlisted at (CHM, Tulane, etc) telling people to go to the option you’re not waitlisted at.

Also, here you commented that you have 0 acceptances and 3 waitlists four days ago: ZukosRedemption (u/ZukosRedemption) - Reddit

If you got into Wayne recently though, congrats.

Prob got into Wayne off those waitlist recently. Regardless of this guy's intent, Wayne is a better school.

 

[UnderRepresentedMajority]

Prob got into Wayne off those waitlist recently. Regardless of this guy's intent, Wayne is a better school.

Lol, "joined 4 minutes ago" and already made profile private. Hey, Zuko xD

 

[carey113]

Lol the receipt game is so real. I guess in the world of potential reapp, desperate times call for desperate measures.

yeah, he's definitely being slimy since he deleted his reddit posts. i figured he would most likely do that so here they are: Gyazo

Pretty scummy thing to do, but the process is competitive so i don't blame him. 😉

 

[puahate]

Its an evil world we live in

 

[stellaloxo]

I am waitlisted at chm (full disclosure) and I feel like chm is really for the type of student who doesn’t want exams/etc. I love the program especially because of the group learning! Lansing is alright to be honest but I definitely feel like they care more about their students
Wayne however has an amazing program... I would go with Wayne if I had the opportunity. Their students match at amazing places and they have incredible research opportunities. I have many friends who go to Wayne and love it! Plus detroit is amazing. I went there for undergrad and LOVED the city and cool study spots.
I actually make fun of my best friends who are going to Wayne all the time but honestly, it’s a great program. Not as competitive as it was before if that’s something you’re concerned about.
Sorry if it’s biased but if I was accepted at Wayne I wouldn’t pass that up. Definitely go where you feel comfortable though 🙂