Michigan vs. Mayo

[Korky]

With May 15th looming in the future I have the pleasant challenge of choosing between two very different, but incredible schools. I'd love to have some other folks input. I'd also like to make a decision so I could free up a spot at one of the schools and hopefully help someone else have a pleasant waitlist surprise.😀

Financially, both schools have given me some aid. The tuition cost from either program would be so close that it is negligible, and doesn't have an impact on my decision.

The following are some pros for each school:

Both

• Pro-student environment, during my interview I felt like both schools really supported their students and were concerned about creating a healthy and positive environment for their students
• Pass/Fail first two years

Michigan

• Strong technological focus (video lectures, online flextime quizzes, digital histo slides)
• Big school, great reputation, known throughout the country.
• College town, I love the idea of going to football games in the big house, wearing the maize and blue with pride, and having a strong undergrad present.
• Great law schools, engineering, public health, business under the U of M name.
• Ann Arbor looks like a really fun place to live!

Mayo

• Small class size, I like the idea of having such an intimate class
• I think the small class opens the doors for great research opportunities (during our interview I think they said 80% of graduates had 1st author publications before they graduated)
• One of the highest Step 1 scores averages in the country (I know that personal performance determines my individual score, but I like the fact that Mayo is clearly enabling their students to succeed)
• Selectives, Mayo has 2-week selectives spaced into M1 and M2 years that allow you to study all many interesting things, or you can design your own.
• A very nice, new fitness center (it's something that really is important to me).
• Mayo funds up to $5000 during your four years to travel for clinical/research experiences.

Because Michigan is such a large school I feel that I would have to work harder for research/clinical opportunities that I think would be more readily available at Mayo. At Mayo, however, I feel like I would miss out on the fun experience of going to a school as vibrant, and exciting as Michigan.

I fear I could go on, but I want to draw this to a close. Thanks for taking the time to listen to my ranting (it helped just to type some of them out). I'd love any input from students at the schools, other people that interviewed there, or someone that just wants to share their view. Thanks!😀

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[TheRealMD]

I'm pretty sure that if a med student wants to find research, then they'll be able to get it at a school like UMich. Besides, I think most people will care more about passing their classes than research most of the time.

 

[Phoenix.]

Ok, now you really need to make a con list.

Regarding Mayo's step 1 scores, I think those are from the old curriculum. Those who studied under the new curriculum will be taking step 1 this year. Although I'm sure they'll still have a stellar average, so my point is neither here nor there.

From reading what you wrote above based on pros alone, I would say that it sounds like UofM would probably fit you better given what you stressed. I don't know UofM's med school well enough to comment on its cons, but from what I've seen and read, living in Rochester, MN, for four years with no undergrad/campus/etc. will be a BIG con for you given what you love about UofM, it's campus, Ann Arbor, etc. (oh, and I went to UofM for undergrad). I would think that the ease of getting research at Mayo should not be a deciding factor; nor the step 1 scores (from what I've read step 1 scores are much more reflective of the individual). And you obviously really like both programs, so it's pretty much a draw. Which brings us to their locations/environments....

Although you really can't listen to me because I'm not exactly disinterested in your decision. 😀

Regardless, good luck with your decision!

 

[flaahless]

I like UMich... but Mayo has a certain sex appeal that drives me crazy. If only it were in a warmer climate.

Daah well, I say Mayo. Great FinAid... great school, small class although it may get a bit annoying after awhile.

 

[TheRealMD]

For those that don't know Phoenix might ALMOST give her first-born to get into Mayo. 😉

 

[BluePhoenix]

I like UMich... but Mayo has a certain sex appeal that drives me crazy. If only it were in a warmer climate.

Daah well, I say Mayo. Great FinAid... great school, small class although it may get a bit annoying after awhile.

I'm pretty sure you can do selectives and your rotations at the FL or AZ campuses if you want...bit warmer at those locations.

 

[Phoenix.]

For those that don't know Phoenix might ALMOST give her first-born to get into Mayo. 😉

Sure, I'd give my first-born. Just not my dog.

 

[ladoo007]

As someone who just interviewed at both Mayo and Michigan during this interview season, I would have to say that they both are amazing schools and that you have done an excellent job outlining the differences between the two. If money is not an issue at all (typically, Mayo has the edge when it comes to this) then the real major differences are class size and location/setting.

When I was at Mayo, I was absolutely blown away by the facilities, students, and faculty. The students were down to earth, fun, and incredibly brilliant. I had a great time during my interview visit, and like many others, absolutely fell in love with every aspect of the school. However, if I were to choose between Mayo and Michigan, I would choose Michigan.

The major concerns for me about Mayo were location and the small class size. You need to decide whether you would rather enjoy a small, intimate environment where you will get more attention than you could handle (like everyone knowing if you missed class that day), or if you would rather have a large class in which there may not be as much attention but there would be more people to meet and more flexibility (at Michigan, many students don't go to all their classes because they are videotaped, flexitime quizzes, etc.). I definitely like the idea of having a larger class and would be willing to give up the attention and benefits of small class for it. And as for research opportunities, I am sure you will have no problem finding them at Michigan.

Additionally, Ann Arbor blows away Rochester if you are young and like to go out, etc. Ann Arbor is a fun college town, and based on what you said, it seems like you would be a lot happier at a place like Ann Arbor than Rochester (me too). Finally, I love the fact that the medical school is part of a gigantic university that is amazing at everything (law, business, undergrad, etc.). I like that there will be several other young adults in the same place.

So basically, since both schools are equally good when it comes to the quality of the medical school, I would choose Michigan because I prefer the location, larger and more diverse class, and other oppotunities (i.e. dual degrees) that come with being part of a large university. However, if I was older and more settled down (and cared less about the social aspects of medical school and was more focused on medicine only and not pursuing other dual degrees), then I could easily see myself choosing Mayo. It really depends on what is more important to you

 

[Doctor Doogie]

Mayo absolutely, positively, no doubt!!

 

[BluePhoenix]

Well, from what I've seen here at Mayo, here's what I can tell you. Reputation-wise, Mayo has a pretty strong reputation for both their hospital and their research. They're pretty good on the tech side as well, classes are recorded and put on the web as podcasts, quizzes are taken with the little remote thingies in class, pretty much everything is online...from the notes to lectures and slides and all that...even previous year's notes on what's important I think. Also, you will not fail at Mayo, they'll pretty much do whatever it takes to help you succeed, even if that means private daily tutoring in anatomy class. And the interaction between the medical school and the clinic is awesome. I think in a larger school you might not get the same level of attention and assistance as at a small school like Mayo...but maybe I'm just biased towards small class sizes.

If you want to do research, you'll have no problem here...they've already set aside time for it in the 3rd year. I don't really see what difference it makes for having a great law school, etc...I mean, that's nice and all but doesn't really effect your med school career unless you want a joint degree or something.

I guess the only thing on your list that really screams U of M is wanting to live in a college town with a football team and all that. You won't find that in Rochester, it's very much a Mayo town. They do sponsor trips to the cities to sporting and other events, and they do have a great minor league baseball and hockey team that they get a pretty good turnout for. It is a relatively small city (~100,000) but if you're studying and all that...does it really matter?

 

[xcgirl]

I will also give my first (and second) born children to go to Mayo, so go for U of M please!

 

[diosa428]

How old are you, and are you married? I'm currently in a class of 100, in a town that definitely has a lot more going on than Rochester, MN (although it's not exactly a metropolis) and #1 - even with 100 people, we ALWAYS know each other's business, and #2 - there are not a lot of opportunities to meet people our age outside of the med school, unless you REALLY try. So if you're in your early 20s and single, you might be really socially unhappy at Mayo. If you're older and married, probably less of a big deal.

 

[BluePhoenix]

How old are you, and are you married? I'm currently in a class of 100, in a town that definitely has a lot more going on than Rochester, MN (although it's not exactly a metropolis) and #1 - even with 100 people, we ALWAYS know each other's business, and #2 - there are not a lot of opportunities to meet people our age outside of the med school, unless you REALLY try. So if you're in your early 20s and single, you might be really socially unhappy at Mayo. If you're older and married, probably less of a big deal.

Unless of course you're interested in nurses....whole lotta nurses here, and med techs, and IBM nerds and that whole lot that goes along with supporting the clinic. Unlike most small towns, Rochester keeps a good lot of younger residents due to the amount of employment opportunities at the clinic. And the cities aren't that far away if you want to party every now and then (wouldn't really recommend it on a really frequent basis though...bit of a drive).

 

[McPoyle]

don't forget admit clerks and x-ray techs... these always seem to be the best looking women in the hospital.

 

[Korky]

Wow, thanks for the input.

From a social standpoint I'm in a committed relationship, so I'm not going to be trying to meet people. I like going out on occasion, but I'm not exactly a partier.

I'll try to keep you posted if other factors come into play, or when I make my decision.

 

[DrZhivago1240]

If you aren't looking for love, then I don't really think there is a downside to Mayo. Rochester has a lot to offer and the Twin Cities are just a short drive away. Mayo Clinic is more well known and has a better reputation than Michigan. They both have great reputations; I'm just saying that Mayo's is better. And with the fact that there are so few students in such a large medical practice, there are a ton of doctors that love to have them shadow or help with research.

 

[Kiara08]

ummmm UMich...so I can have ur spot at Mayo!

 

[Long Dong]

Unless of course you're interested in nurses....whole lotta nurses here, and med techs, and IBM nerds and that whole lot that goes along with supporting the clinic. Unlike most small towns, Rochester keeps a good lot of younger residents.

don't forget admit clerks and x-ray techs... these always seem to be the best looking women in the hospital.

I hope so, just broke up with my GF a few months now, was planning on settling down with her in rochester. But now hope there's some hope for a social life in around there. Well be starting there in a few months, hollar at ya boy if ya wanna go ice fishing.😀

 

[Korky]

A few folks have asserted that Mayo has a better reputation, why do you say that?

I'm coming from the coasts. I work full-time in a hospital and when I mention the two schools to people I work with (doctors/PAs/nurses) it seems like far more have heard of UMich than Mayo. When I talk to folks outside of the medical field, Michigan is definitely more well known. Don't get me wrong, I was amazed with Mayo, and hold it in very high regard. I just haven't seen it's reputation as well known where I'm at.

 

[BluePhoenix]

A few folks have asserted that Mayo has a better reputation, why do you say that?

I'm coming from the coasts. I work full-time in a hospital and when I mention the two schools to people I work with (doctors/PAs/nurses) it seems like far more have heard of UMich than Mayo. When I talk to folks outside of the medical field, Michigan is definitely more well known. Don't get me wrong, I was amazed with Mayo, and hold it in very high regard. I just haven't seen it's reputation as well known where I'm at.

I don't think there's many doctors, particularly those involved in research, that haven't heard of Mayo or don't know about it's reputation. I wouldn't go based on nurses or PAs, in general I'm not sure how aware they would be of the reputations of various hospitals and medical schools. Most of the general public is aware of the Mayo Clinic because we get a lot of famous or foreign leaders that come here...the Dalai Lama, various Presidents, royalty, etc. (really a nifty tour when they show you the "special" floors). They're also well known for the incredible amount of research they do here, as well as health policy work. The match list is pretty good as well, you definitely won't be held back by going here vs. UMich.

 

[Long Dong]

A few folks have asserted that Mayo has a better reputation, why do you say that?

I'm coming from the coasts. I work full-time in a hospital and when I mention the two schools to people I work with (doctors/PAs/nurses) it seems like far more have heard of UMich than Mayo. When I talk to folks outside of the medical field, Michigan is definitely more well known. Don't get me wrong, I was amazed with Mayo, and hold it in very high regard. I just haven't seen it's reputation as well known where I'm at.

Let's just say the likes of JFK, FDR, George Bush, Bono (from U2), George Harrison (the beatles), the king of Jordan the list goes on can get medical treatment anywhere in the world, but where do they go to get treated, you guessed it the Mayo clinic. Rosanne Barr went to UCLA for treatment of her skin condition, where did she end up seeing a dermatologist, you guessed it Mayo MN, this was a story told to me by an attending dermatologist at ucla, when she found out where I matched.

 

[owenmichael]

Tough decision to make!! Both are great programs. Here are my pro's as a current 2nd year at Mayo.

1) Stellar boards averages. And I truly get the feeling that this years 2nd years are going to maintain that same standard while having gone through a more flexible, laid back, new curriculum.

2) Selectives. Truly, I cannot describe how incredible having two weeks "off" every 6 weeks. There is truly no burn out. And I consider those two weeks to be "off" because you have the flexibility to vacation, or pursue something you really like (research, volunteering, international health, working in the clinic). Hours and scheduling are up to your discretion. Everyone comes back refreshed and energized to go hard for the 6 weeks. Oh and we get a $5000 budget to travel, go to research conferences etc... etc... with during selectives (or during the year).

3) 1 exam every 6 weeks. Yes its cumulative on organ system, and it's alot of info... but they switched to this because they had done studies that illustrated that testing less frequently and after a longer period of time increases long term retention (rather than binging and purging). Also takes a lot of pressure off and gives us time to integrate all facets of a subject (whether it be cardiology for a 6 week... neuro etc...)

4) Research is ridiculous here. A TON of 1st and 2nd years have already started research projects during selectives. Quite a few 2nd years are already getting ready to publish... and this is before our designated research quarter (3 months of third year). Faculty/physicians here love to work with medical students because there are so few of us!! Publishing is almost an expectation.

5) Yes Rochester blows, and I'd much rather be in Ann Arbor. But we're a close knit group and we have a damn good time together,

6) You start "quasi" clinical rotations your second year. Mornings your in clinic (internal med, peds, or surgery) and afternoons you have class. It's awesome.... you basically see patients by yourself (for H and P) and then report back to a physician who you present to... who may pimp you...and then takes the time to teach you. The faculty here LOVES to teach.

7) 4th years have consistently told us that when they interviewed at big name programs (Brigham, Mayo, JHU, Vandy)... being from Mayo really seemed to help them.

Good luck... don't know much about U Mich... but Mayo Med consistently blows me away (and I was deathly afraid of coming to Rochester(.

 

[doomknight]

i think it's evident that mayo is better choice

 

[orientedtoself]

i think it's evident that mayo is better choice

i disagree with this statement. it is not evident.

as a michigan grad, i say go blue!

but for the op- you need to decide where you will be the happiest. both are excellent schools and you will receive excellent training. for both you will be in the midwest freezing your @ss off.

i feel like i got a great education at michigan. i was well prepared for internship. research is not hard to come by. i did research during the summer after first year, and a couple months as a fourth year.

michigan had $273 million in nih funding through the medical center last year. that's alot of research.

mayo clinic had $170 million, which isn't shabby either.

if you have any ?'s about michigan or ann arbor, feel free to pm

 

[orientedtoself]

med student research at michigan

there's a list of faculty that have ready-made projects for med students. also, you can take initiative and contact other faculty members on your own to set up a project.

 

[searun]

If you aren't looking for love, then I don't really think there is a downside to Mayo. Rochester has a lot to offer and the Twin Cities are just a short drive away. Mayo Clinic is more well known and has a better reputation than Michigan. They both have great reputations; I'm just saying that Mayo's is better. And with the fact that there are so few students in such a large medical practice, there are a ton of doctors that love to have them shadow or help with research.

But Dr. Zhivago was always looking for love, romantic love. That is what Dr. Zhivago is all about, love and poetry. And Julie Christie.

 

[BluePhoenix]

michigan had $273 million in nih funding through the medical center last year. that's alot of research.

mayo clinic had $170 million, which isn't shabby either.

Umm...that's because Mayo gets so much funding from other sources, like donations. In 2006, Mayo received over $230 million from benefactors. The funding for Mayo research and education programs that year was $634 million, half from the government and foundations, the other half from Mayo funds and benefactor gifts. So, while it may look like Michigan has more money for research, you have to consider all sources, not just NIH.

 

[orientedtoself]

i am just pointing out that michigan is one of the big boys for research. some posters are trying to make it look like mayo >> michigan for research and that's not true. compare nih funding to the university of washington, at $286 million, wash u at $351 million, or johns hopkins, at $434 million. that is alot of research money. hundreds of millions of dollars of research every year. there are planty of labs and there is plenty of science going on. it's a research powerhouse!

 

[owenmichael]

i am just pointing out that michigan is one of the big boys for research. some posters are trying to make it look like mayo >> michigan for research and that's not true. compare nih funding to the university of washington, at $286 million, wash u at $351 million, or johns hopkins, at $434 million. that is alot of research money. hundreds of millions of dollars of research every year. there are planty of labs and there is plenty of science going on. it's a research powerhouse!

Michigan is definately a big player in research. However Mayo receives a ridiculous amount of $$$ in private donations and endowments. This past year Mayo received more in donations than it made from providing health care!

Actually, I think this is really what sets Mayo apart from most other top programs. They always emphasize that the patient comes first. Mayo takes alot of pressure off clinicians who want to conduct research by providing private, internal funding. Thus, most physicians don't have to sacrifice quality of care that they are providing because they are under pressure to get research results or apply for their next NIH grant. The Mayo research journal (Mayo Clinic Proceedings) has been around forever too!

 

[Bacchus]

A few folks have asserted that Mayo has a better reputation, why do you say that?

I'm coming from the coasts. I work full-time in a hospital and when I mention the two schools to people I work with (doctors/PAs/nurses) it seems like far more have heard of UMich than Mayo. When I talk to folks outside of the medical field, Michigan is definitely more well known. Don't get me wrong, I was amazed with Mayo, and hold it in very high regard. I just haven't seen it's reputation as well known where I'm at.

Don't get me wrong, both schools are great. However to assert that us "coasters" don't know Mayo is a fallacy. For just an example: Our public speaking class (gasp, speaking, whats that?! 😉) just wrapped up with persuasion speeches in the realm of science. Any speech that was related to a health issue/concern had information from the Mayo clinic. You see, Mayo pervades a lot of information sources because it is well known. Simply from hearsay you can't discount either school's reputation. In this comparison reputation should not be a deciding factor because both schools have an amazing reputation.

 

[LunderKind]

Personally, I could never live in a place like Rochester, MN, so I Mayo would definitely not be the school for me. If you like the college town feel of Ann Arbor, Rochester probably won't cut it....

Mayo's reputation as a clinic is different from it's reputation as a medical school. Seems to me most people on this thread are posting about the clinic's reputation, which is stronger than the reputation of the medical school itself. The medical school is much younger than the clinic...I was actually advised not to go there from the standpoint of their research programs being less developed than other institutions. I say go to UofM, then get your great clinical training by doing your residency at Mayo.

 

[Shadowboricua]

na

 

[Orthodoc40]

Mayo absolutely, positively, no doubt!!

+1 👍

Congrats on having such a fine choice to make!

 

[orientedtoself]

like i said before, the op needs to go where he feels most comfortable and where he thinks he would fit in the best. he will get an excellent education at either program.