Mid-Life Career Change to Clinical Psych

[CrimsonWife]

I've been a stay-at-home mom for the past almost 8 years and my youngest child will be entering kindergarten in fall of 2014. Back in college, my original career goal was genetic counseling and I actually got wait-listed at a M.S. program & encouraged by the director to re-apply after I'd matured a bit. I never did because I got married and then a couple years later had my oldest child.

Fast forward to now and I'm no longer interested in genetic counseling but I am interested in neuropsychology, particularly working with "twice exceptional" kids (gifted + learning disabled). My younger 2 kids are 2E and I've been frustrated with the shortage of neuropsychologists who have a good understanding of 2E issues.

I read through the massive PhD. vs. PsyD. thread but as a midlife career changer, I've got the suspicion that even if I might've had a shot at getting into a PhD. program had I applied in my 20's (GPA was 3.8 from Stanford and my GRE's were 720/720/780 general and >700 psych, though they are more than 5 years old so I'd need to retake them) I'd be unlikely to get in now. Also, my husband has a good job in San Francisco & we own a house here so I can't just uproot my family for 5 years for me to go back to school. I'll still apply to UC Berkeley's PhD. program because you never know, but I am not holding my breath.

I'm in the process of seeing if I can get an application into Palo Alto U's online M.S.-to-PhD. prep program in time for this fall. If I were to do well in that, it would presumably bolster my chances of getting into a doctorate program. Also, I like the idea of getting some of the foundational courses out of the way at home on my own schedule rather than having to schlep myself to a campus.

I'm a bit nervous at the thought of starting the prep for my "encore" career now rather than in a year, but also am excited. I've been putting my family first for so long that it's nice to be doing something for myself 🙂

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[WisNeuro]

Fast forward to now and I'm no longer interested in genetic counseling but I am interested in neuropsychology, particularly working with "twice exceptional" kids (gifted + learning disabled). My younger 2 kids are 2E and I've been frustrated with the shortage of neuropsychologists who have a good understanding of 2E issues.

Sorry to hear about the shortage of professionals in that area in your area. Specializing in Npsych is one of the longer roads to go in clinical psych. Most jobs these days want you board certified or board eligible. That means going the road of the 2-year postdoc after finishing accredited doctoral and internship programs. I'm an adult person myself, but from what I hear, the children oriented internships and fellowships in npsych are somewhat more competitive, based on scarcity.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Given your interests in LDs and school children, I'd also suggest looking at the school psych PhD program at Berkley. Keep in mind that it's important to have good fit between your research interests in those of your POI- (the professor you'd like to work with). Another possibility would be to pursue a specialist degree in school psych. Don't go to any unfunded PhD or PsyD program (Argosy, Alliant, PAU, etc)--the debt is unmanagable and the typical outcomes aren't spectacular at best.

I'm in the process of seeing if I can get an application into Palo Alto U's online M.S.-to-PhD. prep program in time for this fall. If I were to do well in that, it would presumably bolster my chances of getting into a doctorate program. Also, I like the idea of getting some of the foundational courses out of the way at home on my own schedule rather than having to schlep myself to a campus.

IMO, this is likely to be a waste of money, won't help your applications to PhD programs, and might very well hurt them.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Given your interests in LDs and school children, I'd also suggest looking at the school psych PhD program at Berkley. Keep in mind that it's important to have good fit between your research interests in those of your POI- (the professor you'd like to work with). Another possibility would be to pursue a specialist degree in school psych. Don't go to any unfunded PhD or PsyD program (Argosy, Alliant, PAU, etc)--the debt is unmanagable and the typical outcomes aren't spectacular at best.



IMO, this is likely to be a waste of money, won't help your applications to PhD programs, and might very well hurt them.

I definitely would not do the M.S. program as it is a waste of money.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I'm in the process of seeing if I can get an application into Palo Alto U's online M.S.-to-PhD. prep program in time for this fall. If I were to do well in that, it would presumably bolster my chances of getting into a doctorate program. Also, I like the idea of getting some of the foundational courses out of the way at home on my own schedule rather than having to schlep myself to a campus.

I'm a bit nervous at the thought of starting the prep for my "encore" career now rather than in a year, but also am excited. I've been putting my family first for so long that it's nice to be doing something for myself 🙂

Good for you - Sacrificing much to build your family, but now thinking about your own professional interests! 👍

I also would not recommend the online master's degree if you want to go further in clinical psychology. Why not look into full-time or part-time employment in the field, as a research coordinator or clinical research assistant? Also, I would start thinking about volunteering in schools or centers that treat developmental disabilities. You have a keen perspective having children who are both gifted with learning disabilities. However, you'll find working with children and families will be different than your own experience of raising kids. It is much, much more restrained because you must be professional, respectful and courteous while trying to assess and treat a variety of disorders in individuals who may or may not want to be there. When it's your own family, the negotiation is much looser - there's always compromise, but it's in vivo, and less pragmatic than working with patients. (I know firsthand because I'm a mom & nearing the end of my training, and I also work with children and their families.)

Try to gain professional experience of working with children and families and branch out from there. Completing a PhD or PsyD is like a very full-time job that you never leave at the office. Your work follows you wherever are you are...for 5+ years, and you have to try very hard to put it out of your mind (pineapple drinks on the beach help). However, you know that mothering is also more than a full-time time...it is a never-ending job that we want to be ever-lasting. With that said, take baby steps: Volunteer, get paid-experience as a working mom, and then apply. You will need to get letters of recommendation from those who know you NOW (I'd get at least two from clinical psychologists who can vouch for your potential in the field). By branching out, you will build these relationships and it'll prepare you for the road ahead. Competent child clinical neuropsychologists are essential and the goal is quite doable (if you're exceptionally bright), but you need to get into a program first. I would work to strengthen your prospects and then narrow in on your goal once you're in a good program. If you really want to do it, you will find a way

It sucks, but you will have to repeat those GREs and take Psych GREs (for some programs). I suggest you find some volunteer or paid work (maybe part-time) while you're also brushing up on test prep materials. Being a working mom before I started my program really helped me prioritize and draw boundaries between my PhD work, housework, and dedicating quality time to my kids, who are "getting bigger every day." 😍 (They make note of this all the time!)

Good luck!

 

[CrimsonWife]

I definitely would not do the M.S. program as it is a waste of money.

Even if it were to shorten the time required to get the PhD. by a year? Wouldn't that be a wash in the long run?

I'm not interested in school psychology because I want to work in a hospital or private clinic setting. Definitely not interested in being a school-based guidance counselor or doing IEP assessments for a district (aka how can the district screw over kids with LD to save a few bucks 😡).

 

[futureapppsy2]

Even if it were to shorten the time required to get the PhD. by a year? Wouldn't that be a wash in the long run?

I'm not interested in school psychology because I want to work in a hospital or private clinic setting. Definitely not interested in being a school-based guidance counselor or doing IEP assessments for a district (aka how can the district screw over kids with LD to save a few bucks 😡).

With a PhD in school psych, you'll be able to be licensed as a psychologist and work in hospitals. I know several school psych PhDs who are pediatric psychologists. Of course, they had to get the right prac and internship experience, but it's not uncommon. Many PhD school psychs don't work in schools and have no desire to, but choose the route for intensive child psych training. .

The masters program is unlikely to actually shorten your time--especially an online masters program from PAU. It's a waste of money, to be frank.

 

[CrimsonWife]

UCSF has a lot of good research going on. I'd check them out in addition to Berkeley.

I don't see any psychology grad programs at UCSF. I see a PhD. in Neuroscience, but presumably that's more focused on basic research and while I minored in biology, I don't think I am at all qualified for graduate work in that field (fascinating from an intellectual perspective though). I also see a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner M.S. but I'd have to re-take the science pre-reqs since it's been so long since I graduated college before I could even apply, and legally N.P.'s have to work under a M.D.'s supervision in CA (this may change in the future because of Obamacare but there are no guarantees). They also have a M.D. program but that path would be way more time and money than I'm willing to spend at this point in my life.

From the consumer side, school/educational psychology is seen as a joke among parents with LD kids. I've seen numerous variations of "don't see [insert name of someone with a degree in school psych], you need a REAL neuropsych" on e-lists that I'm on. So even if the state might license those with a school/ed. psych degree, there is a definite bias against them from the perspective of those seeking out a neuropsych eval.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I don't see any psychology grad programs at UCSF. I see a PhD. in Neuroscience, but presumably that's more focused on basic research and while I minored in biology, I don't think I am at all qualified for graduate work in that field (fascinating from an intellectual perspective though).

I believe what Jon Snow (and certainly what I'm) saying is don't look to those programs for matriculation in graduate studies. Look to those programs for the research being done and see if there are any job postings or volunteer positions in those "labs." You can quite reasonably find a research job in a slightly unrelated specialty, like basic science or nursing, and it will serve your purposes just fine. You'll have to figure out how to spin the experience around to your best interest. I worked in general surgery research for many years before doing many years in psycho-oncology research prior to entering a clinical program. The experience built skills that inform the scientist-practitioner model.

Make sure you check out the degrees of the investigators/researchers and hopefully one of them will be a clinical psychologist (potential recommender).

 

[PsychPhDone]

The online masters is a total waste and might actually hurt you. Go with the suggestions -- get research/clinical experience at local places first. Better use of your time. Best of luck!

 

[PHD12]

Especially because you are geographically limited, I would try to get into the best program possible. This field is tough if you are geographically limited. Graduates from UC berkeley though can frequently stay in the area because the program is very reputable and have many connections to good sites. However, CA is the mecca of for-profit "diploma mills" so you will be much better off avoiding those. Anything that doesn't sound like a recognized university, is probably not a good idea and will not get you to your goal of neuropsychology. Avoid argosy, alliant, wright, calfiornia institute type of schools, and palo alto university, as you will have a tough time landing an APA internship and the postdoc you need for neuropsychology. PGSP-stanford has a decent match rate, but I think many graduates have to leave SF area for internship and it's very expensive. To be honest though, you will have a tough time if you are restricted to one part of CA. Most people in this field have to move for grad school, internship, postdoc or at least one of these, even if they are superstars.

 

[CrimsonWife]

Especially because you are geographically limited, I would try to get into the best program possible. This field is tough if you are geographically limited. Graduates from UC berkeley though can frequently stay in the area because the program is very reputable and have many connections to good sites. However, CA is the mecca of for-profit "diploma mills" so you will be much better off avoiding those. Anything that doesn't sound like a recognized university, is probably not a good idea and will not get you to your goal of neuropsychology. Avoid argosy, alliant, wright, calfiornia institute type of schools, and palo alto university, as you will have a tough time landing an APA internship and the postdoc you need for neuropsychology. PGSP-stanford has a decent match rate, but I think many graduates have to leave SF area for internship and it's very expensive. To be honest though, you will have a tough time if you are restricted to one part of CA. Most people in this field have to move for grad school, internship, postdoc or at least one of these, even if they are superstars.

For an internship or a 1 year post-doc I could stay with family in the Boston, Philadelphia, or D.C. metro areas. I just can't leave the Bay Area for 5 years, KWIM?

 

[PHD12]

For an internship or a 1 year post-doc I could stay with family in the Boston, Philadelphia, or D.C. metro areas. I just can't leave the Bay Area for 5 years, KWIM?

that would help you alot if you may also apply outside of CA for internship. Postdoc is 2 years in neuropsychology and internship is 1 year. If you can re-locate temporarily that would just increase your chances.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

From the consumer side, school/educational psychology is seen as a joke among parents with LD kids. I've seen numerous variations of "don't see [insert name of someone with a degree in school psych], you need a REAL neuropsych" on e-lists that I'm on. So even if the state might license those with a school/ed. psych degree, there is a definite bias against them from the perspective of those seeking out a neuropsych eval.

Unfortunately there are many clinicians who "do neuropsych evals on the side", but they are far from competent. It is the worst for peds neuropsych bc there is always a shortage of providers and plenty of "who needs a doctorate or fellowship" types willing to fill that void.

 

[futureapppsy2]

From the consumer side, school/educational psychology is seen as a joke among parents with LD kids. I've seen numerous variations of "don't see [insert name of someone with a degree in school psych], you need a REAL neuropsych" on e-lists that I'm on. So even if the state might license those with a school/ed. psych degree, there is a definite bias against them from the perspective of those seeking out a neuropsych eval.

For the average school (or clinical) psych, no, they probably aren't competent to do a neuropsych eval and shouldn't really be doing them. But there are some school psych PhDs who have fulfilled the Houston guidelines in regards to training and are boarded or working towards it who you wouldn't know are school psychs by training unless you looked at their vita or guessed from the fact that they only work with children and adolescents. There same goes for some boarded pediatric psychologists with school psych PhDs.

For an internship or a 1 year post-doc I could stay with family in the Boston, Philadelphia, or D.C. metro areas. I just can't leave the Bay Area for 5 years, KWIM?

This will help somewhat, but keep in mind that those areas are very popular as well. Also, finding a job in the Bay area will likely be quite difficult. Just be forewarned.

Also, do you have any research experience (very important, especially for UCB)? Clinical experience?

 

[WisNeuro]

I wish you the best. But, to be honest, not having geographic flexibility is gonna make things extremely difficult. You may have to sacrifice quality quite a bit. Not too mention lowering your chances of the match. Remember that neuro internships and fellowships are both in a match process.

 

[CrimsonWife]

Also, do you have any research experience (very important, especially for UCB)? Clinical experience?

Back in the '90's when I was an undergrad but nothing recent. I made an inquiry today about volunteering to be a mentor parent through the local support program for families of Special Needs kids. Research experience is going to be tougher to get until my youngest child starts kindergarten in 13 months.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'd definitely second the advice to look for research volunteering opportunities at universities/colleges in the area, as lab managers/professors are generally much more willing to be flexible about your schedule when they aren't paying you. Even if it's only 5 or 10 hours per week, it could certainly help. Offering services as a mentoring parent I'm sure would be a great experience, but I don't know that it would help to strengthen your grad school application (other than to possibly allow you to further refine your research and clinical interests as listed in your personal statement).