mid-tier programs

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dynamite

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Hey guys,

Anyone know what the mid-tier programs in the NY, Boston, California, DC, regions are? Or is there such a thing in these regions? I'm an average applicant from a US non-"name" med school but I'm looking to go to a major metropolitan area. So, any ideas as to programs I'd have a good chance at in these regions? Thanx

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apply to all programs that sound good to you. you will get interviews at many of them, and that will help with the process. the places that you do not get invited to interview at will probably not be a good fit with you/your application. if there is a place that you really want to go see, and you don't get an interview, you can always call them and state your particular interest.

i would not apply based on tier of program, but apply broadly and see what you like, and where you fit and where you get invited...you might be surprised to learn that programs are actually interested in what you have to say for yourself in your application, and not just what school you come from.

DO NOT omit a program based on your perceived chances of getting in--there is NO WAY to tell who will interview you, and who won't.

i applied to all programs in the regions i wanted to be in, then narrowed down the list later. i ended up liking the two programs i thought i would least like the best. i feel that it is worth the extra $ up front, then you can eliminate later.

you will get a good feel for a place while visiting, and by the end of the interview trail, it is easy to know what you like and don't like....
 
dynamite said:
Hey guys,

Anyone know what the mid-tier programs in the NY, Boston, California, DC, regions are? Or is there such a thing in these regions? I'm an average applicant from a US non-"name" med school but I'm looking to go to a major metropolitan area. So, any ideas as to programs I'd have a good chance at in these regions? Thanx

Tell ya what, at the risk of offending some people, I'm going to list what I think are the premiere programs in said regions, and you can figure out which ones outside of this sphere are "mid tier". Rest assured that the following programs are not mid-tier, but truly remarkable institutions for psychiatry. Be aware that oftentimes programs that are excellent don't use criteria like board scores in their evaluation process. You would be surprised at some of the "mediocre" numbers and grades that some people at the best programs have gotten, but they had other intangibles that programs liked. So don't sell yourself short. And my excluding some programs from top tier is due more to my lack of knowledge about these institutions and my advisors sending me towards these programs rather than anything against the unmentioned programs.

Boston:

MGH/Mclean
Harvard Longwood

New York:

Columbia
NYU
Cornell
Mt. Sinai

Philly:

Penn

Batimore/DC:

Johns Hopkins
UMaryland/Shephard Pratt

Cali:
UCLA
Stanford
UCSF

By this estimation...I could make the argument that any other psychiatry residency in these areas tied to Academic medical centers would then be considered mid tier. Some that come to mind are Albert Einstein, UCSD, Georgetown, GW, Tufts. Others that are free standing that come to mind would be St. Vincents and Beth Israel (both in NYC). There are people who would choose some of these institutions over the top tier ones (ie, there are some folks who fell in love with Albert Einsteins philosophy and lifestyle), so its a somewhat silly response on my behalf, but maybe it will be helpful. I guess it just depends on where you draw the line as to what is top tier. Above is a reflection of where I draw my arbitrary line, but I think it is a reflection of what many academic psychiatrists feel (as my advisors generated this list for me).

Of all the specialties, psychiatry is probably one of the fields where the numbers game is less important than more subjective information, so apply broadly. The cost is negligible.

Best,
worriedwell
 
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Thanx so much guys. really, i just want to go to a place that's going to give me great training, and be in a fun city with lots to do. the whole "tier" thing is probably silly, but it's a nice general way of seeing what good training would be. i'm specifically looking for programs that at the least have a good balance between psychotherapy and psychopharm. i'm actually more interested in psychotherapy and i heard that the programs in the east (NYC, Boston) are traditionally more focused on therapy. anyone know which programs i should look at (or avoid) if i'm more interested in psychotherapy in these regions? or is it true that they're all pretty balanced? i have spent endless hours online looking at their sites but any experiences you have would certainly be more objective.
 
Dynamite,

I just wanted to revive the activity of this thread because like you, I too want to know very much where the psychoanalytically-leaning programs are in psychiatry...ANYONE?? Or have they ALL become extinct!?
 
roady said:
Dynamite,

I just wanted to revive the activity of this thread because like you, I too want to know very much where the psychoanalytically-leaning programs are in psychiatry...ANYONE?? Or have they ALL become extinct!?

The analytically oriented program are mostly represented in New York City. Specifically, Albert Einstein, Cornell, NYU, Mt. Sinai, and Columbia. I can't speak to the others in New York. In general, this approach is very heavily represented in NYC compared to any other city. Boston might be second but I still think a distant second. Harvard Longwood also seemed heavy on the psychotherapy, although I can't remember if it was solely psychodynamics. Hopkins seemed to deemphasize therapy compared to the other schools. Penn emphasized therapy but not really psychodynamics, rather a more pluralistic approach although they have affiliations with the philadelphia psychoanalytic society as well as the beck cognitive behavior center. MGH/McClean and Umaryland/Shepard Pratt have an interesting balance due to the free standing psychiatric facilities associated with them although I'm not sure how that plays out in your therapy training. It does lend itself to extra time commuting though. In general though, most institutions that have the resources will be able to acommodate your interests. In fact, many programs give you a lot of flexibility during your fourth year to pursue your own interests. It only takes a couple good mentors in therapy to get some decent training, so don't stress out too much.
 
Thanks worriedwell. What do you think about Cambridge as compared to the other Harvard programs?
 
dynamite said:
Thanks worriedwell. What do you think about Cambridge as compared to the other Harvard programs?

Did not apply personally but have heard only positive things from word of mouth. i don't have specifics but i recall people thinking that it was heavily therapy oriented. I think it was also a very small program, but i can't be sure.

worriedwell
 
In general, to be more direct with you about therapy oriented programs...in my experience on the interview trail (I haven't yet done any specialized training), the programs that struck me as having a culture where the residents seemed into doing talk therapy (regardless of modality) and the resources seemed abundant for those options were:

Harvard Longwood
Albert Einstein
NYU
Penn
Columbia

Especially Longwood, in terms of the culture of the people I met. NYU was also superp with the mix of public psychiatry, psychotherapy (including multiple people pursuing analysis), and private hospital models - I think it probably had the best overall mix of training options. The consequence, however, was that the residents worked hard and didactics/academics were less stressed. At Columbia, while it seemed the network was in place to get extensive supervision in therapy, the vibe was a much more academic and research driven group. Penn had a mix of NYU/Columbia but didn't have New York and its therapy willing clientele. Einstein is very psychoanalytic in flavor, and very laid back. At Longwood, you work very hard for the first two years and are rewarded in the later years with good therapy training it seems.
 
In New York City, Columbia and Cornell are perhaps best known for psychotherapy teaching and training, both heavily psychodynamic in focus. NYU has a strong program as well, the didactics there are quite good from what I've seen (one month sitting in on weekly sessions). I would presume that Mt Sinai does therapy well. On the interview trail, their PD was trumpeting some new academic affiliation with one of the psychoanalytic facilities in Manhattan.

In Boston, Longwood is known to be heavily dynamic in their training. Cambridge is a neat place -- residents there seem to learn a lot about different therapies, and the people there pay particular attention to conducting psychiatry evaluations and testing therapy in different cultural and ethnic contexts. I was impressed by their program. It looks different from other programs, and is really worth a look.

In one sense, this is all a moot point since the content of psychiatry residencies is dictated by a governing agency to ensure that all residents receive training in key modalities. I have gotten the sense, as has one of the above posters, that New York City is among the best places to pursue that kind of training intensively.
 
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