Seriously, what is a mid-tier psych residency?

[popshoveit]

I'm not even sure if I can tell which ones are 'low tier' besides the ones I've never heard of in places I've never heard of. I have a sense of what some the top tier programs are, but what makes a school mid-tier? As a somewhat competetitive applicant I want to shoot high but have a solid wall of mid tier schools and I can't tell what even falls into that category. Is there a good list of these somewhere? Sorry for such a basic question...

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[Phanerothyme]

Doximity has the 'residency navigator', you can sort by reputation. I think it's more useful as a general guide rather than a precise measure, but could be good to help decide on which programs to pad your application with.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think these distinctions are pretty artificial and don't put much stock in them. In general, the programs that seem to be considered "high-tier" tend to be the programs associated with prestigious institutions, irrespective of the actual quality of the clinical training that's offered to trainees.

To the extent that this paradigm is actually useful, I'd consider "low-tier" programs to be programs that consistently fail to till their slots OR are filled primarily by IMGs/FMGs. That doesn't necessarily mean that the program is awful, but I do think it says something if they're unable to attract primarily US graduates to their program. Particularly given that psychiatry is becoming an increasingly popular specialty, I would say that something is going awry if very few residents are US graduates.

Beyond that, IMO the main benefit of "high-tier" programs is if you're interested in a strictly academic career, especially research. Many of these "high-tier" programs will have more opportunities available to you in that vein than a "lower tier" program, which would obviously be important in order to get quality research experiences.

 

[Merovinge]

I think of mid-tier as academic programs at less than top tier institutions, many of which are state flagship universities. These programs often offer great training as they have the full might of a large university (lots of PhD and research folk) but no one is going to be impressed by you name dropping University of xxx State. This is in contrast to low tier community programs and high tier Ivy league/Medical specialty schools (Hopkins/WashU/etc)/Places really known for psych expertise (UPMC etc).

 

[Stagg737]

I think of mid-tier as academic programs at less than top tier institutions, many of which are state flagship universities. These programs often offer great training as they have the full might of a large university (lots of PhD and research folk) but no one is going to be impressed by you name dropping University of xxx State. This is in contrast to low tier community programs and high tier Ivy league/Medical specialty schools (Hopkins/WashU/etc)/Places really known for psych expertise (UPMC etc).

This is how I've always viewed it with the caveat that there are some "hidden gem" community programs that actually have some great opportunities that are solidly "mid-tier". I interviewed at mostly academic programs with 2 community programs, one of which ended up being my #2 rank and may have ended up as my top choice if my social situation had been different. Felt like the breadth of exposure, number of specialty units/clinics, and compensation and benefits were actually the best of anywhere I interviewed.

 

[heartsink]

Beyond that, IMO the main benefit of "high-tier" programs is if you're interested in a strictly academic career, especially research. Many of these "high-tier" programs will have more opportunities available to you in that vein than a "lower tier" program, which would obviously be important in order to get quality research experiences.

I've previously read on these boards from other attendings that "name brand" residencies can help a lot in private practice (particularly cash-pay) because of their national recognition to laypeople, and especially when one comes from a relatively unknown medical school. Is this still true?

 

[comp1]

There's no ranking of residencies...sorry. Each one is literally the best at some specific random thing. It's all dependent on what you want. I would mostly focus on geography since the chance of you sticking around is pretty high statistically. If you're interested in competitiveness, generally programs that are newer, more rural and lacking an attached university are less competitive.

 

[NickNaylor]

I've previously read on these boards from other attendings that "name brand" residencies can help a lot in private practice (particularly cash-pay) because of their national recognition to laypeople, and especially when one comes from a relatively unknown medical school. Is this still true?

Are there going to be people that are "impressed" that you went to a "Harvard-affiliated" training program? Sure, those people are out there. But I think that it matters a whole lot less than people think. None of the local psychiatrists that seem to be genuinely good clinicians and whom patients speak positively of went to what I would consider to be a "high-tier" programs, and they seem to be doing just fine with their cash-only clinics.

 

[Merovinge]

Out of curiosity, what makes a name brand instituation? I'm at a big state university with a highly ranked undergrad, law, business program and a top-tier football team.....is this really going to help me in private practice?

I can't think of a single state University that is highly ranked in all those things outside of maybe Michigan if we give you the benefit of them having a top tier football team, don't doxx yourself just to satisfy my curiosity however. These types of universities do have some local value (honestly many are amazing instituions of learning that most countries would kill to have as their flagship, higher education in the US is stacked), but we aren't talking a standford, harvard, yale type of name here.

 

[reca]

Out of curiosity, what makes a name brand instituation? I'm at a big state university with a highly ranked undergrad, law, business program and a top-tier football team.....is this really going to help me in private practice?

One that a smarty pants in a movie you're watching might say they graduated from.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Out of curiosity, what makes a name brand instituation? I'm at a big state university with a highly ranked undergrad, law, business program and a top-tier football team.....is this really going to help me in private practice?

Not until there's a full 16-team National Championship Playoff.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I can't think of a single state University that is highly ranked in all those things outside of maybe Michigan if we give you the benefit of them having a top tier football team, don't doxx yourself just to satisfy my curiosity however. These types of universities do have some local value (honestly many are amazing instituions of learning that most countries would kill to have as their flagship, higher education in the US is stacked), but we aren't talking a standford, harvard, yale type of name here.

You haven't been watching Michigan football lately, then, have you?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Out of curiosity, what makes a name brand instituation? I'm at a big state university with a highly ranked undergrad, law, business program and a top-tier football team.....is this really going to help me in private practice?

No.
But good luck convincing the folks on here of that.

To answer the OP--a mid-tier program is a purely subjective label for programs that are "good-enough", where the faculty and residents want to be there, and where energies can be focused on clinical training and experience instead of academic politics and reputation rankings.
For the folks who work at and train at "mid-tier programs", they're Top Tier programs FOR THEM.
If you want to be around happy people, train at places that are perceived as "mid-tier".

 

[birchswing]

My initial thought was UVA, but then I realized I overlooked the mention of football, which I know nothing about. I just googled "Does UVA have a good football team" and the answers did not say yes or no. My money is still on UVA.

 

[Stagg737]

My initial thought was UVA, but then I realized I overlooked the mention of football, which I know nothing about. I just googled "Does UVA have a good football team" and the answers did not say yes or no. My money is still on UVA.

Lol, not to derail the thread, but anyone calling UVA's football team "good" has very low standards.

 

[birchswing]

Lol, not to derail the thread, but anyone calling UVA's football team "good" has very low standards.

I really didn't know. I don't follow sports.

They're probably more competitive in something like fox hunting.

 

[Stagg737]

I really didn't know. I don't follow sports.

They're probably more competitive in something like fox hunting.

Not trying to be insulting, just laughed a little at their football team being good. Recently they've a very strong basketball program though. They're also supposed to be a solid psych program (to come back on topic).

 

[deleted1022040]

This is how I've always viewed it with the caveat that there are some "hidden gem" community programs that actually have some great opportunities that are solidly "mid-tier". I interviewed at mostly academic programs with 2 community programs, one of which ended up being my #2 rank and may have ended up as my top choice if my social situation had been different. Felt like the breadth of exposure, number of specialty units/clinics, and compensation and benefits were actually the best of anywhere I interviewed.

Would you be willing to message me about the community program you described?

As long as it does not inadvertently disclose your offline identity.

 

[Stagg737]

Would you be willing to message me about the community program you described?

As long as it does not inadvertently disclose your offline identity.

It was Community Health Network in Indianapolis. Maybe it was because my expectations were somewhat low, but I was really surprised by their facilities, benefits, and the staff I talked to (assistant PD seemed wonderful). Idk what the program is actually like, but they did a great job on my interview day there.

 

[hebel]

I think of them as good programs without prestige.

 

[clozareal]

Out of curiosity, what makes a name brand instituation? I'm at a big state university with a highly ranked undergrad, law, business program and a top-tier football team.....is this really going to help me in private practice?

What's going to help you the most in private practice is having easier access to be mentored by those who have successfully created a private practice that you want to emulate. Has nothing to do with the name brand or tier of the program and more with the connections of the faculty to private practice psychiatrists and to the alumni who have this sort of practice as well. If 90% of the graduates go into academics, then that's not going to help much with getting exposure and mentorship in starting up and running a business.