Midwestern vs Temple

[jelly-b]

They're pretty much the opposites of each other! It didn't look like there was a proper comparison thread in the past, so I'd really appreciate input on this decision. Here's my pros/cons list so far:


MIDWESTERN
PROS:
-Strong academics (years 1 & 2)
-Nice campus and facilities
-The faculty and staff seemed really nice and available to the students

CONS:
-Don't care for Glendale/Phoenix
-Clinicals: their on-campus clinic was extremely slow on interview day, and also worried about the lack of variety in pathologies
-Lack of diversity in a very small class size... 82% of the class is white and 70% of the class is male. I am neither.


TEMPLE
PROS:
-Stronger clinicals: their on-campus clinic was bumpin' when I toured on interview day
-Living in Philadelphia appeals to me more
-Larger class size & more diverse

CONS:
-The surrounding area isn't as safe as Midwestern
-Facilities are a bit outdated



Another point I'd like to add is that Midwestern has lectures with the DO students, whereas Temple just has podiatry students. I didn't add this to the list because I wasn't sure which I preferred on that front...

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[SLCpod]

Time to flip the coin.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I never toured Temple and never applied there, but I did attend Midwestern, so take this for what it's worth. I chose AZPod (Midwestern) for a few reasons.

I liked the campus and the area around it. Glendale/Phoenix is a pretty interesting place and I found a lot of things to do. Year-round outdoor activities that are awesome, Bell Road has just about any place to eat/shop that you could want, and there are professional sport teams (baseball, basketball, football, hockey) in town all of the time.

The setup for clinical exposure is different at AZPod, I never spent any time in the on-campus clinic. Most students don't. The on-campus clinic is just one site that students rotate at. Some view it as a negative, but I was pretty neutral about it. It's not worse, it's just different.

I can't speak much to the diversity issue as a white male. While the specific program may be somewhat homogenous (some years more than others), the campus as a whole is pretty diverse.

For what it's worth, I view the integration with DO students as a huge plus, but not everyone agrees with me.

Just looking at the list you have, the cons list for Temple seem like pretty minor things. If you think you would feel more comfortable in Philly, I would seriously consider going there. Both schools will give you the same degree and I don't think either will limit your opportunities in the future

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

They're pretty much the opposites of each other! It didn't look like there was a proper comparison thread in the past, so I'd really appreciate input on this decision. Here's my pros/cons list so far:


MIDWESTERN
PROS:
-Strong academics (years 1 & 2)
-Nice campus and facilities
-The faculty and staff seemed really nice and available to the students

CONS:
-Don't care for Glendale/Phoenix
-Clinicals: their on-campus clinic was extremely slow on interview day, and also worried about the lack of variety in pathologies
-Lack of diversity in a very small class size... 82% of the class is white and 70% of the class is male. I am neither.


TEMPLE
PROS:
-Stronger clinicals: their on-campus clinic was bumpin' when I toured on interview day
-Living in Philadelphia appeals to me more
-Larger class size & more diverse

CONS:
-The surrounding area isn't as safe as Midwestern
-Facilities are a bit outdated



Another point I'd like to add is that Midwestern has lectures with the DO students, whereas Temple just has podiatry students. I didn't add this to the list because I wasn't sure which I preferred on that front...

Don't forget to factor in the amount of debt you will owe after 7 years. That could be a big determining factor as well. However, it may be even since Philly's cost of living is probably higher (I assume). @bobtheweazel goes to Temple, I think, so he knows exactly how it is!

 

[bobtheweazel]

I think what's been said so far is pretty fair so I won't add much.

I feel pretty safe at Temple's podiatry campus (main campus is another story). I mean, the police station is directly across the street and it's located right at the top of the touristy area of Philadelphia so I think theyake an effort to keep the area safe. Nobody in my class has had any problems so far. Of course, there are homeless people around, some with mental issues, but if you just ignore them they'll ignore you like they do for the 1,000 other people who walk by them every day.

As far as cost of living, I have an apartment that's a 5 minute walk from campus and good (not great) quality. I share it with two of my classmates, so it's a 2 level 3 bed 2 bath, little over 2,000 square feet for $2100/month including water. 150 Mbps internet is $80/month, electricity is $100-150/month. And of course all those numbers are split 3 ways. There are many more apartments in the area for more or less money. If you wanna live out of town and commute, you can get an even better deal, but then you have to worry about parking or take the train every day.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[bobtheweazel]

I should add that I was accepted to Midwestern and Temple. Personally, Midwestern was my #1 due to their board pass rates and their city/location (I'm from Texas and the layout of the city and the climate is what I'm used to). Temple was my #2 choice primarily because of the clinic.

I ultimately chose Temple because my fiancée is from the Northeast and has family out here. If I went to Arizona, my closest family would be about a 10 hour drive, and my hometown would be at least 15 hours.

Although Temple was my #2 choice, at least it wasn't like my #9 choice, lol. So far I'm happy, but even though I'm doing better than most of my classmates there is still a decent chance of me failing boards and that annoys me. The most recent class had a 78% first time pass rate for boards part 1 and an 87% pass rate after their second attempt, whereas nationally the first attempt is around 84% and following the second attempt it's somewhere in the upper 90s. And it's not just the people near the bottom of the class, people in the top 30% have failed the exam as well. The fact that you can basically have a 95 average and still potentially fail boards is due to: (1) the ****ty board exam that we take and (2) the specific curriculum of the school (especially, I would say, how well it overlaps with the curriculums of the other schools since the board questions are submitted by all 9 schools). A lot of people blame the ****ty exam, but there are still schools like Midwestern and DMU that have upper 90% first time pass rates every year, which means it's a ****ty but very doable exam. The incoming stats for students across all the schools is comparable, and I'm not sure how class size would play a part, if you know the material that your school teaches then you know it and if you don't you don't—so I don't think those are major factors. So if I do maintain my 95 average all the way through the first 2 years and still fail boards, I'm gonna be pretty pissed at Temple for having a ****ty curriculum. I'm not trying to scare anyone away from Temple. I still think that the school puts out great doctors. It's just that the school is focused more on trying to prepare you to be a podiatrist than trying to prepare you to take the board exams.

To sum it up, I am enjoying my time at Temple even though it was not my top pick. Check back with me again though after boards and I may be singing a different tune.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I should add that I was accepted to Midwestern and Temple. Personally, Midwestern was my #1 due to their board pass rates and their city/location (I'm from Texas and the layout of the city and the climate is what I'm used to). Temple was my #2 choice primarily because of the clinic.

I ultimately chose Temple because my fiancée is from the Northeast and has family out here. If I went to Arizona, my closest family would be about a 10 hour drive, and my hometown would be at least 15 hours.

Although Temple was my #2 choice, at least it wasn't like my #9 choice, lol. So far I'm happy, but even though I'm doing better than most of my classmates there is still a decent chance of me failing boards and that annoys me. The most recent class had a 78% first time pass rate for boards part 1 and an 87% pass rate after their second attempt, whereas nationally the first attempt is around 84% and following the second attempt it's somewhere in the upper 90s. And it's not just the people near the bottom of the class, people in the top 30% have failed the exam as well. The fact that you can basically have a 95 average and still potentially fail boards is due to: (1) the ****ty board exam that we take and (2) the specific curriculum of the school (especially, I would say, how well it overlaps with the curriculums of the other schools since the board questions are submitted by all 9 schools). A lot of people blame the ****ty exam, but there are still schools like Midwestern and DMU that have upper 90% first time pass rates every year, which means it's a ****ty but very doable exam. The incoming stats for students across all the schools is comparable, and I'm not sure how class size would play a part, if you know the material that your school teaches then you know it and if you don't you don't—so I don't think those are major factors. So if I do maintain my 95 average all the way through the first 2 years and still fail boards, I'm gonna be pretty pissed at Temple for having a ****ty curriculum. I'm not trying to scare anyone away from Temple. I still think that the school puts out great doctors. It's just that the school is focused more on trying to prepare you to be a podiatrist than trying to prepare you to take the board exams.

To sum it up, I am enjoying my time at Temple even though it was not my top pick. Check back with me again though after boards and I may be singing a different tune.

Dam, that sounds scary, Bob. I mean if you're averaging 95% and worried about the part 1 then, think about the people who are sitting at 70s or 80s...lol. The issue seems to the curriculum though, because most of other schools have their first-time pass rate in high 80s to 90s. But, you knowing about the issue and acting on it now by doing well in the courses, is probably the best you can do.

Isn't there a review prep for the Pod boards? Like how they have live prep, qbanks from uworld, kaplan, etc, for USMLE Step 1?

 

[bobtheweazel]

Dam, that sounds scary, Bob. I mean if you're averaging 95% and worried about the part 1 then, think about the people who are sitting at 70s or 80s...lol. The issue seems to the curriculum though, because most of other schools have their first-time pass rate in high 80s to 90s. But, you knowing about the issue and acting on it now by doing well in the courses, is probably the best you can do.

Isn't there a review prep for the Pod boards? Like how they have live prep, qbanks from uworld, kaplan, etc, for USMLE Step 1?

Most of our upperclassmen use BRS and First Aid, both tailored to USMLE, not APMLE (they don't like when I say that). There are sources out there that people have put together for our boards, but it's nowhere near the quality of like a Kaplan or Exam Krackers book. There are also attempts at APMLE prep websites and an app, but again I don't think any of these are the higher quality type prep materials like what's available for USMLE.

Unfortunately, it seems like our small test gets little love from major test prep companies. I don't blame them though, it wouldn't be anywhere near as profitable as putting out a book or course for USMLE or NCLEX.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Most of our upperclassmen use BRS and First Aid, both tailored to USMLE, not APMLE (they don't like when I say that). There are sources out there that people have put together for our boards, but it's nowhere near the quality of like a Kaplan or Exam Krackers book. There are also attempts at APMLE prep websites and an app, but again I don't think any of these are the higher quality type prep materials like what's available for USMLE.

Unfortunately, it seems like our small test gets little love from major test prep companies. I don't blame them though, it wouldn't be anywhere near as profitable as putting out a book or course for USMLE or NCLEX.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

I hope this changes in the near future as more plp come to Podiatry

 

[jelly-b]

The setup for clinical exposure is different at AZPod, I never spent any time in the on-campus clinic. Most students don't. The on-campus clinic is just one site that students rotate at. Some view it as a negative, but I was pretty neutral about it. It's not worse, it's just different.

Thanks for mentioning this. It wasn't clear during the tour, and I didn't realize this would be the case until I read your post. Are most of Midwestern's rotation sites located within driving distance from the school or do students move around every few weeks? I think I've read in the past that some DO schools have their students move to different cities between rotations.

Although Temple was my #2 choice, at least it wasn't like my #9 choice, lol. So far I'm happy, but even though I'm doing better than most of my classmates there is still a decent chance of me failing boards and that annoys me. The most recent class had a 78% first time pass rate for boards part 1 and an 87% pass rate after their second attempt, whereas nationally the first attempt is around 84% and following the second attempt it's somewhere in the upper 90s. And it's not just the people near the bottom of the class, people in the top 30% have failed the exam as well. The fact that you can basically have a 95 average and still potentially fail boards is due to: (1) the ****ty board exam that we take and (2) the specific curriculum of the school (especially, I would say, how well it overlaps with the curriculums of the other schools since the board questions are submitted by all 9 schools). A lot of people blame the ****ty exam, but there are still schools like Midwestern and DMU that have upper 90% first time pass rates every year, which means it's a ****ty but very doable exam. The incoming stats for students across all the schools is comparable, and I'm not sure how class size would play a part, if you know the material that your school teaches then you know it and if you don't you don't—so I don't think those are major factors. So if I do maintain my 95 average all the way through the first 2 years and still fail boards, I'm gonna be pretty pissed at Temple for having a ****ty curriculum. I'm not trying to scare anyone away from Temple. I still think that the school puts out great doctors. It's just that the school is focused more on trying to prepare you to be a podiatrist than trying to prepare you to take the board exams.

Thanks bob, I appreciate the transparency. All these posts have given me something to think about. I wonder if the fact that Midwestern and DMU have integrated lectures with the DO students has anything to do with their high pass rate. Do you plan on using the BRS and First Aid books to prepare? And do you happen to know off the top of your head around how much dedicated study time Temple gives their students for the boards?

 

[bobtheweazel]

Thanks for mentioning this. It wasn't clear during the tour, and I didn't realize this would be the case until I read your post. Are most of Midwestern's rotation sites located within driving distance from the school or do students move around every few weeks? I think I've read in the past that some DO schools have their students move to different cities between rotations.



Thanks bob, I appreciate the transparency. All these posts have given me something to think about. I wonder if the fact that Midwestern and DMU have integrated lectures with the DO students has anything to do with their high pass rate. Do you plan on using the BRS and First Aid books to prepare? And do you happen to know off the top of your head around how much dedicated study time Temple gives their students for the boards?

I wouldn't put too much weight in the DO thing, since Western is completely integrated with their DOs and they probably have the worst board pass rates of all.

I believe we'll get 2 or 3 months of free time to prepare for boards. Also, we have our first Summer off, which could be at least partially used to nail down concepts from first year. I won't be relying heavily on BRS or First Aid, but I'll give them a look through.

Also, Temple is implementing mandatory pretests before boards part 1. At least 2 of them. I assume it'll be similar for part 2...Not sure about part 3 since some people don't take that till they're well out of school. So starting with my class, they'll be screening who can take the exam, those who fail the pretests will be required to pass them before sitting for the board exam.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[hopefulfuturepod]

They're pretty much the opposites of each other! It didn't look like there was a proper comparison thread in the past, so I'd really appreciate input on this decision. Here's my pros/cons list so far:


MIDWESTERN
PROS:
-Strong academics (years 1 & 2)
-Nice campus and facilities
-The faculty and staff seemed really nice and available to the students

CONS:
-Don't care for Glendale/Phoenix
-Clinicals: their on-campus clinic was extremely slow on interview day, and also worried about the lack of variety in pathologies
-Lack of diversity in a very small class size... 82% of the class is white and 70% of the class is male. I am neither.


TEMPLE
PROS:
-Stronger clinicals: their on-campus clinic was bumpin' when I toured on interview day
-Living in Philadelphia appeals to me more
-Larger class size & more diverse

CONS:
-The surrounding area isn't as safe as Midwestern
-Facilities are a bit outdated



Another point I'd like to add is that Midwestern has lectures with the DO students, whereas Temple just has podiatry students. I didn't add this to the list because I wasn't sure which I preferred on that front...

To me it sounds like you would do better at/prefer Temple.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Thanks for mentioning this. It wasn't clear during the tour, and I didn't realize this would be the case until I read your post. Are most of Midwestern's rotation sites located within driving distance from the school or do students move around every few weeks? I think I've read in the past that some DO schools have their students move to different cities between rotations.

As of when I was a student there, 5 years ago, most of the rotations were in the Phoenix valley. I think you could choose to go to some surrounding cities for a few rotations, but most of the rotations were within driving distance of the school.

 

[jelly-b]

Thank you for the information and advice, everyone.