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Arijos0222

"The Opportune Moment"
10+ Year Member
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If any physicians are out there who are in the military, share your stories, experiences, and reasons why you chose military medicine (or why you didn't)

I heard that doing the military HPSP is the worst reason to go into the military, but I don't buy that because I'm sure that there are docs that did it for that very reason.

Comments?
 
If any physicians are out there who are in the military, share your stories, experiences, and reasons why you chose military medicine (or why you didn't)

I heard that doing the military HPSP is the worst reason to go into the military, but I don't buy that because I'm sure that there are docs that did it for that very reason.

Comments?

I'm obviously not a military doctor (lol), but why would joining for the scholarship be a bad thing? Part of the whole reason in the HPSP program is to attract doctors. One thing that has prompted me to consider HPSP is the high tech equipment they have in the military. Also they don't have to worry about insurance barriers which would be nice. I thought about joining the Navy. They have cool ships. Haha :laugh:
 
If any physicians are out there who are in the military, share your stories, experiences, and reasons why you chose military medicine (or why you didn't)

I heard that doing the military HPSP is the worst reason to go into the military, but I don't buy that because I'm sure that there are docs that did it for that very reason.

Comments?
HPSP is certainly not the worst reason to go into the military. However, it is the worst reason to go if you're doing it for the money and here's why:

As an HPSP you will receive free tuition and most books, as well as ~25k/year for living expenses. As a resident, you will make ~70k/year as opposed to a non-HPSP resident who will make ~45k/year. However, once you are an HPSP attending you will be making ~100-150k/year max, whereas a regular attending would be seeing around ~200-250k/year.

So essentially you will have an immediate reward for choosing HPSP, however you will be losing out on a considerable amount of cash flow in the long run. In the end, choosing HPSP should mean you have a strong attraction to the military lifestyle, and that decision can only be made by yourself.
 
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HPSP is certainly not the worst reason to go into the military. However, it is the worst reason to go if you're doing it for the money and here's why:

As an HPSP you will receive free tuition and most books, as well as ~25k/year for living expenses. As a resident, you will make ~70k/year as opposed to a non-HPSP resident who will make ~45k/year. However, once you are an HPSP attending you will be making ~100-150k/year max, whereas a regular attending would be seeing around ~200-250k/year.

So essentially you will have an immediate reward for choosing HPSP, however you will be losing out on a considerable amount of cash flow in the long run. In the end, choosing HPSP should mean you have a strong attraction to the military lifestyle, and that decision can only be made by yourself.

👍
 
HPSP is certainly not the worst reason to go into the military. However, it is the worst reason to go if you're doing it for the money and here's why:

As an HPSP you will receive free tuition and most books, as well as ~25k/year for living expenses. As a resident, you will make ~70k/year as opposed to a non-HPSP resident who will make ~45k/year. However, once you are an HPSP attending you will be making ~100-150k/year max, whereas a regular attending would be seeing around ~200-250k/year.

So essentially you will have an immediate reward for choosing HPSP, however you will be losing out on a considerable amount of cash flow in the long run. In the end, choosing HPSP should mean you have a strong attraction to the military lifestyle, and that decision can only be made by yourself.

I don't necessarily agree with this 100%

You don't pay for living, you have no debt, and you can bank all your money If you want and invest more
 
I don't necessarily agree with this 100%

You don't pay for living, you have no debt, and you can bank all your money If you want and invest more
I agree those are positives and will certainly make your first 8 years relatively easier, but those don't provide an argument that HPSP is competitive with civilian physicians in the long run.
 
HPSP is certainly not the worst reason to go into the military. However, it is the worst reason to go if you're doing it for the money and here's why:

As an HPSP you will receive free tuition and most books, as well as ~25k/year for living expenses. As a resident, you will make ~70k/year as opposed to a non-HPSP resident who will make ~45k/year. However, once you are an HPSP attending you will be making ~100-150k/year max, whereas a regular attending would be seeing around ~200-250k/year.

So essentially you will have an immediate reward for choosing HPSP, however you will be losing out on a considerable amount of cash flow in the long run. In the end, choosing HPSP should mean you have a strong attraction to the military lifestyle, and that decision can only be made by yourself.

I don't necessarily agree with this 100%

You don't pay for living, you have no debt, and you can bank all your money If you want and invest more

I definitely get where you are coming from Eiot and I haven't mapped out numbers the way you have so please forgive me if I'm way off base, but the impression I've always been under is that it really depends on SO many factors whether it would be an advantage or not.

For example: If you are going to a top private school or any private school for that matter, HPSP may be more beneficial simply because your tuition will be ~250k at a private school/year as opposed to the ~150k you would pay at a state school which can make a difference in the long run. You also have to take into account the interest that accumulates on those loans assuming you don't do HPSP so in the end, a civilian doctor is paying more than what their tuition really costs.

In addition, you have to take into account what residency you're doing. I have heard that if you're in a shorter residency like FM, it's more worth it to do HPSP than if you chose something like neurosurgery that can be 7+ years. Because in FM you only have 2-3 years and 4 you owe the military with that low pay check but 7+ years of 45k a year plus 4 you owe the military with low pay afterwards... that would definitely catch up to you.

There's just so many factors to consider.

I've considered going into military medicine several times myself, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me. My reason was because I am interested in surgery-- particularly neurosurgery. Obviously, I may very well change my mind but if I do follow that path I don't want to feel like :bang: 10 years from now
 
I definitely get where you are coming from Eiot and I haven't mapped out numbers the way you have so please forgive me if I'm way off base, but the impression I've always been under is that it really depends on SO many factors whether it would be an advantage or not.

For example: If you are going to a top private school or any private school for that matter, HPSP may be more beneficial simply because your tuition will be ~250k at a private school/year as opposed to the ~150k you would pay at a state school which can make a difference in the long run. You also have to take into account the interest that accumulates on those loans assuming you don't do HPSP so in the end, a civilian doctor is paying more than what their tuition really costs.

In addition, you have to take into account what residency you're doing. I have heard that if you're in a shorter residency like FM, it's more worth it to do HPSP than if you chose something like neurosurgery that can be 7+ years. Because in FM you only have 2-3 years and 4 you owe the military with that low pay check but 7+ years of 45k a year plus 4 you owe the military with low pay afterwards... that would definitely catch up to you.

There's just so many factors to consider.

I've considered going into military medicine several times myself, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me. My reason was because I am interested in surgery-- particularly neurosurgery. Obviously, I may very well change my mind but if I do follow that path I don't want to feel like :bang: 10 years from now

I'm strongly considering Podiatry/Dentistry (Podiatry>Dentistry for now) because of the breadth that the world of podiatric medicine has to offer; a lot of depth and a lot of variety. With a 3 year surgical residency and a fellowship option, I can become a surgeon in less time, have a better lifestyle than most surgeons, still bring home a comfortable paycheck AND offer patients medicinal and surgical treatments towards their problems.

I can see a multitude of pathology. If you think about it, it's Endocrinology, Orthopedic Surgery, Dermatology, and Cardiology. You can follow up on one patient after a surgery, treat an individual who has a fracture, see a diabetic patient with wound care, and then do research that is cutting edge and important to society.

That being said, (again repeating the lifestyle comment) I like the lifestyle that a Podiatrist can live. Orthopedic F/A surgeons will take most of the trauma (yeah, they can have that, i'm fine with it 🙂) and the fact that i'm not burdened with people dying and saving lives would be a huge stress reliever, and will (probably) help me live longer. 👍

I also have huge interests other than medicine, which take up time...

I don't think I really want to give up those parts of me.
 
I'm strongly considering Podiatry/Dentistry (Podiatry>Dentistry for now) because of the breadth that the world of podiatric medicine has to offer; a lot of depth and a lot of variety. With a 3 year surgical residency and a fellowship option, I can become a surgeon in less time, have a better lifestyle than most surgeons, still bring home a comfortable paycheck AND offer patients medicinal and surgical treatments towards their problems.

I can see a multitude of pathology. If you think about it, it's Endocrinology, Orthopedic Surgery, Dermatology, and Cardiology. You can follow up on one patient after a surgery, treat an individual who has a fracture, see a diabetic patient with wound care, and then do research that is cutting edge and important to society.

That being said, (again repeating the lifestyle comment) I like the lifestyle that a Podiatrist can live. Orthopedic F/A surgeons will take most of the trauma (yeah, they can have that, i'm fine with it 🙂) and the fact that i'm not burdened with people dying and saving lives would be a huge stress reliever, and will (probably) help me live longer. 👍

I also have huge interests other than medicine, which take up time...

I don't think I really want to give up those parts of me.

👍
 
If any physicians are out there who are in the military, share your stories, experiences, and reasons why you chose military medicine (or why you didn't). I heard that doing the military HPSP is the worst reason to go into the military, but I don't buy that because I'm sure that there are docs that did it for that very reason.

Well, ok. I guess that's my cue.
Where to begin. I was born at a young age...

Let me try again.

After graduating college, I signed up for the HPSP program prior to starting medical school. For me, the money was a big part (but I'll get to that later). I was also interested in deployment medicine; getting to work in interesting environments, and have experiences that other people in my same field wouldn't have.

The military was fairly unintrusive during medical school. Between the first and second year I had a 30 day course at the School of Aerospace Medicine, but that was fun and interesting in it's own right (I now know how many G-forces I can handle and at what point I pass out). During the 4th year, two of my electives were done at military hospitals, but since I was applying to military residencies anyways it didn't make much of a difference.
During school they paid for all of my books and required supplies, and they gave me a living stipend (now, I went to school in south florida and the stipend didn't even cover all of my rent, so there were still loans involved but they were much much smaller than my co-students).

When it came time to apply to residency (emergency medicine for me) I went through the military match hoping for a civilian deferral (meaning, approval from the military to do my residency at a non-military facility). I didn't get it and I spent a year as a general surgery intern. It was interesting, but not the specialty for me in the long run. At the end of that year I had the option of re-applying to the match or working out the remainder of my 4 year commitment as a general medical officer (working at a flight medicine clinic treating the coughs/colds of otherwise generally healthy soldiers/airmen). I opted to reapply to the match and because of my time in the internship I was able to beat out the medical students for a civilian deferral spot. For 3 years I was back in civilian life at an emergency medicine residency program in Illinois.

But alas, all good things come to an end. When residency finished I got reaccessioned into the military. Because of my interest in research and academic medicine, I applied for, and got a position as a staff physician at the military's largest medical center (and only Level 1 trauma center in the continental United States). Working here is much the same as working at any civilian academic center so the impact on my life (relative to my civilian counterparts) hasn't been much to speak of. Their salaries are higher but only about 2-2.5x

In a month and a half I'm being deployed. It's actually an exciting proposition. I don't want to spend my life working in a war zone, but I do want to have the experience of doing it. Yes, much of it will be drudgery, but so is much of the day to day work in the civilian world. It will be much of the same but in a unique environment, and something that will hopefully make a good story for time to come.

As for the money... whether or not it makes sense from a fiscal standpoint depends on how you manage your money and what your priorities are (which is why it drives me crazy to see people arguing the financial benefit/detraction as an absolute). For me, I am more comfortable having time-debt than money-debt. I know, based on how I manage my money, that it would take me a lot more than 4 years to pay off a medical school loan even with a civilian salary. During residency, even though my student loans were nearly 10 times less than some of my compatriots, they all continued to defer their loans (and accrue interest), and I paid my monthly balance (which gave me a bit less discretionary spending). With my military service I can apply to have my entire student loan debt discharged after 10 years of on-time payments (which would be a $20,000 savings). The gamble is that at the time it comes up for discharge, the program is still available.

(what program you ask? http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service)

So, financially it makes sense for me. I don't need 200k, 300k, etc per year. I am plenty happy with my 90k. If I wanted I could moonlight a few times a month and significantly increase that amount, but I'd rather have my time off. So whether or not it makes sense for you depends on your lifestyle, your preferences for debt type, and a slew of other variables.

And I think that's enough freestyle explanations. Questions? Clarifications? Vitriolic diatribes?
 
Well, ok. I guess that's my cue.
Where to begin. I was born at a young age...

Let me try again.

After graduating college, I signed up for the HPSP program prior to starting medical school. For me, the money was a big part (but I'll get to that later). I was also interested in deployment medicine; getting to work in interesting environments, and have experiences that other people in my same field wouldn't have.

The military was fairly unintrusive during medical school. Between the first and second year I had a 30 day course at the School of Aerospace Medicine, but that was fun and interesting in it's own right (I now know how many G-forces I can handle and at what point I pass out). During the 4th year, two of my electives were done at military hospitals, but since I was applying to military residencies anyways it didn't make much of a difference.
During school they paid for all of my books and required supplies, and they gave me a living stipend (now, I went to school in south florida and the stipend didn't even cover all of my rent, so there were still loans involved but they were much much smaller than my co-students).

When it came time to apply to residency (emergency medicine for me) I went through the military match hoping for a civilian deferral (meaning, approval from the military to do my residency at a non-military facility). I didn't get it and I spent a year as a general surgery intern. It was interesting, but not the specialty for me in the long run. At the end of that year I had the option of re-applying to the match or working out the remainder of my 4 year commitment as a general medical officer (working at a flight medicine clinic treating the coughs/colds of otherwise generally healthy soldiers/airmen). I opted to reapply to the match and because of my time in the internship I was able to beat out the medical students for a civilian deferral spot. For 3 years I was back in civilian life at an emergency medicine residency program in Illinois.

But alas, all good things come to an end. When residency finished I got reaccessioned into the military. Because of my interest in research and academic medicine, I applied for, and got a position as a staff physician at the military's largest medical center (and only Level 1 trauma center in the continental United States). Working here is much the same as working at any civilian academic center so the impact on my life (relative to my civilian counterparts) hasn't been much to speak of. Their salaries are higher but only about 2-2.5x

In a month and a half I'm being deployed. It's actually an exciting proposition. I don't want to spend my life working in a war zone, but I do want to have the experience of doing it. Yes, much of it will be drudgery, but so is much of the day to day work in the civilian world. It will be much of the same but in a unique environment, and something that will hopefully make a good story for time to come.

As for the money... whether or not it makes sense from a fiscal standpoint depends on how you manage your money and what your priorities are (which is why it drives me crazy to see people arguing the financial benefit/detraction as an absolute). For me, I am more comfortable having time-debt than money-debt. I know, based on how I manage my money, that it would take me a lot more than 4 years to pay off a medical school loan even with a civilian salary. During residency, even though my student loans were nearly 10 times less than some of my compatriots, they all continued to defer their loans (and accrue interest), and I paid my monthly balance (which gave me a bit less discretionary spending). With my military service I can apply to have my entire student loan debt discharged after 10 years of on-time payments (which would be a $20,000 savings). The gamble is that at the time it comes up for discharge, the program is still available.

(what program you ask? http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service)

So, financially it makes sense for me. I don't need 200k, 300k, etc per year. I am plenty happy with my 90k. If I wanted I could moonlight a few times a month and significantly increase that amount, but I'd rather have my time off. So whether or not it makes sense for you depends on your lifestyle, your preferences for debt type, and a slew of other variables.

And I think that's enough freestyle explanations. Questions? Clarifications? Vitriolic diatribes?

This doesn't really pertain to you specifically, but have you personally known any military podiatrists? Can you inform me on that?
 
This doesn't really pertain to you specifically, but have you personally known any military podiatrists? Can you inform me on that?

Yep. Actually one of the best military doctors I worked with as a surgical resident was a podiatrist. He was chair of the orthopedic department and commander of the surgical flight. Really nice guy. Both him and his wife had been in the military for 20+ years (so he was a bird colonel).
 
Yep. Actually one of the best military doctors I worked with as a surgical resident was a podiatrist. He was chair of the orthopedic department and commander of the surgical flight. Really nice guy. Both him and his wife had been in the military for 20+ years (so he was a bird colonel).

that is amazing to hear doc. 👍

How much do you enjoy your tenure at the military?

Do you think that you would have changed anything pertaining to your career now when you think about it?
 
Question:
If you don't go through the health scholarship or do a military residency how long is your service obligation? (If you just go though the civilian route and apply for a job with the military)
 
Question:
If you don't go through the health scholarship or do a military residency how long is your service obligation? (If you just go though the civilian route and apply for a job with the military)
There are some variables, but generally 4 years. You'll start as a Captain and be looking at Major if you re-enlist.
 
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How much do you enjoy your tenure at the military?
I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

Do you think that you would have changed anything pertaining to your career now when you think about it?
Hmm.... no, not really. I'm getting to do all the research I want, I'm getting to work with residents. I might feel differently if I was at a different (smaller) hospital. But the same would be said in the civilian world.
 
Muchas preguntas....


1. If you apply to the Military Health Sciences University (MD Program) and get in are you required to attend? (Like if it's your second choice and you get into both).

2. Is the Military Health Science University as respectable as other MD programs in the US?

3. If you go to Military Health Science University can you apply for civilian residencies?


I'm talking about this school:
http://www.usuhs.edu
 
1. If you apply to the Military Health Sciences University (MD Program) and get in are you required to attend? (Like if it's your second choice and you get into both).
Like any other school you'd have to accept your acceptance.

2. Is the Military Health Science University as respectable as other MD programs in the US?
Certainly.

3. If you go to Military Health Science University can you apply for civilian residencies? I'm talking about this school: http://www.usuhs.edu
No. USUHS graduates have to do their residencies through the military. Civilian deferral is not an option. However they can sometimes have a small edge over people coming from civilian medical schools when it comes to the military match.

Can one be deployed during residency?
No. During residency you're in a protected status and considered non-deployable.
 
Like any other school you'd have to accept your acceptance.


Certainly.


No. USUHS graduates have to do their residencies through the military. Civilian deferral is not an option. However they can sometimes have a small edge over people coming from civilian medical schools when it comes to the military match.


No. During residency you're in a protected status and considered non-deployable.

How does the military match work? Do people still have a say in the specialty that they get?
 
How does the military match work? Do people still have a say in the specialty that they get?

During 4th year, medical students apply for the military match prior to the start of the civilian match. When you apply for the military match you tell them which residency type you want to apply for and at what location. You also tell them what internships you are interested in, in case you are not selected for your residency.

The military can not make you do a residency in a field you are not interested in. They can however decline to put you into your chosen field and instead have you do a one year internship and then use you as a GMO (general medical officer) for the duration of your 4 year commitment. After a year or two of working as a GMO you can opt to reapply to the match and try again to get the residency of your choice.

Every year before the match, the military puts out a list of how many slots there are for each residency field. They project how many doctors of each type they will need in 3-5 years. So for example; say the military projects they will need 20 emergency medicine doctors in 3 years. If 30 people apply for emergency medicine, then the top 20 will get an EM slot and the other 10 will get an internship year slot. You are free to select multiple residency types during the match but be prepared to do any of them.

The process has a few more variables than that, but that's the basics.