military doc - jump school ?

[prone2xl]

this question is in regards to Airborne (JUMP SCHOOL). are there options for Navy docs to attend this training ? I know there are other tours for GMO such as dive med and flight surgery, but if one wanted to complete this school during the summer or at some point in training would there be funding/opportunities for it? have you heard of any examples where a doc was permitted to go to jump school at Benning or the 5 day static line course in San Diego?

Thanks-

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[colbgw02]

I wouldn't count on it. There was a single Navy O-4 at jump school when I was there, but that was awhile ago - before OIF/OEF, 9/11, etc. They won't send HPSPers, and there really won't be enough time during residency. Even after that, you would be fighting an uphill battle. With two wars going on, there simply aren't enough slots anymore. Oddly enough, your best bet may be if you go to USUHS. I know that they have slots to send their students (or at least they did until recently), and seeing as it's a triservice school, the logistics to do inter-service training may already be in place. All of that is just speculation though.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Yes... so...

I'm just starting USUHS, and this is something I'd like to do.

Funny enough, my enlisted friend was like "get Airborne in your contract dude!!!""

And I was like "I have a negotiable contract??? WTF?"

 

[Galo]

this question is in regards to Airborne (JUMP SCHOOL). are there options for Navy docs to attend this training ? I know there are other tours for GMO such as dive med and flight surgery, but if one wanted to complete this school during the summer or at some point in training would there be funding/opportunities for it? have you heard of any examples where a doc was permitted to go to jump school at Benning or the 5 day static line course in San Diego?

Thanks-

I did it as a cadet while in ROTC though I doubt you'd have time to do it while in HPSP, and certainly not while doing a residency, (if you're lucky enought not to get tagged to waste 2 yrs of your life as a GMO). If you want to experience jumping, get civilian training, its alot more fun than 3 weeks of pain for 5 jumps at 1500 feet. Though I did have a blast doing it.

 

[utahjazz]

This Lt. did it relatively recently during the summer between 1st and 2nd year at USUHS:

"After a year off working in a research lab at the University of South Florida in Tampa, Johannah entered the Army as a Second Lieutenant to become a medical student at the Uniformed Services University of Health Science, located on the campus of the Bethesda Naval Medical Center outside Washington, D.C. Between her first and second years of med school, she went to jump school at Fort Benning, Ga., and earned her 'wings.'"

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=27&id=27720

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

You might be able to do it in the Navy if you get "stashed" between internship and your flight/dive med class. No idea who would pay for it, though. Maybe your gaining unit if they had slots/funds?

 

[prone2xl]

NICE !!!! thanks 🙂

 

[GeraldMonroe]

What is jump school for?

Historical times they used paratroopers :
Grenada - a big f-ck up. The airfield was supposed to be in friendly hands so they planes could land, but instead a ranger unit did a jump onto it, and took it by fire. 19 Americans were killed. Had they used amphibious tanks, the total casualty count would almost certainly have been lower.
During the Iraq was, a major airborne jump onto a friendly airfield was done because it saved time over landing planes. It probably did not gain a noticeable strategic or tactical advantage. Helicopters could have been used, or they could have simply taken another day or two to land the C-130s.

During Vietnam, they had helicopters, and chutes tangle up in trees. I don't know if any airborne jumps were done out of military necessity. Korean war and WW2, of course - paratroops were used for lots of key operations.

My conclusion? Airborne training is probably worthless from a military perspective. A helicopter is a much better method for insertion and extraction. In addition, soldiers behind enemy lines without substantial resupply and medical support tend to run out of ammunition and die (read Bravo Two Zero).

But it sure is fun as heck to jump out of planes. And I was so jealous of the kid with the red berret at AIT.

 

[MD Grizzly]

What is jump school for?

Historical times they used paratroopers :
Grenada - a big f-ck up. The airfield was supposed to be in friendly hands so they planes could land, but instead a ranger unit did a jump onto it, and took it by fire. 19 Americans were killed. Had they used amphibious tanks, the total casualty count would almost certainly have been lower.
During the Iraq was, a major airborne jump onto a friendly airfield was done because it saved time over landing planes. It probably did not gain a noticeable strategic or tactical advantage. Helicopters could have been used, or they could have simply taken another day or two to land the C-130s.

During Vietnam, they had helicopters, and chutes tangle up in trees. I don't know if any airborne jumps were done out of military necessity. Korean war and WW2, of course - paratroops were used for lots of key operations.

My conclusion? Airborne training is probably worthless from a military perspective. A helicopter is a much better method for insertion and extraction. In addition, soldiers behind enemy lines without substantial resupply and medical support tend to run out of ammunition and die (read Bravo Two Zero).

But it sure is fun as heck to jump out of planes. And I was so jealous of the kid with the red berret at AIT.

You left out Normandy. Yea, that little battle where Airborne soldiers from the 101st jumped in the middle of the night, and managed to capture many artillery batteries, and key locations to make the job easier for the boys scaling the cliffs.

Airborne can provide a big tactical advantage to the side making use of it.

 

[notdeadyet]

You left out Normandy. Yea, that little battle where Airborne soldiers from the 101st jumped in the middle of the night, and managed to capture many artillery batteries, and key locations to make the job easier for the boys scaling the cliffs.

Yeah, but you're pulling up an example from more than 60 years ago.

I don't have much of an opinion on the Airborne subject (and didn't we use them in Panama?), but if you have a military asset you haven't used in a big way successfully in 60 years, I think it's fair to question its usefulness.

 

[MD Grizzly]

Yeah, but you're pulling up an example from more than 60 years ago.

I don't have much of an opinion on the Airborne subject (and didn't we use them in Panama?), but if you have a military asset you haven't used in a big way successfully in 60 years, I think it's fair to question its usefulness.

Thats because paratroopers are far more effective in conventional warfare. The initial invasion of Iraq was short lived, which is why airborne soldiers were given so little jump operations, they played the role of basic infantry after their jump.

The whole deal in Grenada doesn't question the effectiveness of the jump, because Intelligence was to blame. Also, HALO jumping is superior to helicopter extraction in some situations, especially when you dont want the enemy to know you're there. We had SOF jumping into the mountains of Afghanistan before we even publicly invaded it.

Regardless, this is a MilMed forum, and I feel like i'm derailing the thread. 😀

To the OP, Docs that are assigned to airborne divisions and regiments go to jump school.

Also, SOF, and ranger docs are required to earn their jump wings, so it is possible, but apart from that, I dont see why money should be wasted for a doc to go to jump school when he/she isn't going to need it, especially when we're fighting in two different theaters.

 

[DoctaJMa]

Thats because paratroopers are far more effective in conventional warfare. The initial invasion of Iraq was short lived, which is why airborne soldiers were given so little jump operations, they played the role of basic infantry after their jump.

The whole deal in Grenada doesn't question the effectiveness of the jump, because Intelligence was to blame. Also, HALO jumping is superior to helicopter extraction in some situations, especially when you dont want the enemy to know you're there. We had SOF jumping into the mountains of Afghanistan before we even publicly invaded it.

Regardless, this is a MilMed forum, and I feel like i'm derailing the thread. 😀

To the OP, Docs that are assigned to airborne divisions and regiments go to jump school.

Also, SOF, and ranger docs are required to earn their jump wings, so it is possible, but apart from that, I dont see why money should be wasted for a doc to go to jump school when he/she isn't going to need it, especially when we're fighting in two different theaters.

Because it is cool! 😀

 

[core0]

What is jump school for?

Historical times they used paratroopers :
Grenada - a big f-ck up. The airfield was supposed to be in friendly hands so they planes could land, but instead a ranger unit did a jump onto it, and took it by fire. 19 Americans were killed. Had they used amphibious tanks, the total casualty count would almost certainly have been lower.
During the Iraq was, a major airborne jump onto a friendly airfield was done because it saved time over landing planes. It probably did not gain a noticeable strategic or tactical advantage. Helicopters could have been used, or they could have simply taken another day or two to land the C-130s.

During Vietnam, they had helicopters, and chutes tangle up in trees. I don't know if any airborne jumps were done out of military necessity. Korean war and WW2, of course - paratroops were used for lots of key operations.

My conclusion? Airborne training is probably worthless from a military perspective. A helicopter is a much better method for insertion and extraction. In addition, soldiers behind enemy lines without substantial resupply and medical support tend to run out of ammunition and die (read Bravo Two Zero).

But it sure is fun as heck to jump out of planes. And I was so jealous of the kid with the red berret at AIT.

The major airborne operations since WWII have been:
Korea - Two jumps - 187th Airborne Regimental combat team
Vietnam - Junction City - 173rd airborne combat brigade.
Grenada - Urgent Fury - 75th Infantry (rangers)
Panama - Just Cause - 75th infantry and 82nd Airborne
Afghanistan -1 jump - 75th infantry and 82nd - Airfield seizure
Iraq - 2 jumps - 75th infantry and 173rd - airfield seizure

Modern doctrine uses airborne forces for essentially two missions. To cut off retreating enemy forces (Korea and Vietnam) although never successfully. From Grenada on they have been used for airfield seizure. Generally this allows the Army to place a large amount of troops on the ground beyond the reach of other airframes such as helicopters. Airborne troops jump in with enough supplies for 48 hours. Generally they rely on seizing and hold an airbridge and getting resupply through the airfield.

To the OP. If you want to go to jump school its usually relatively easy. Each unit has slots for jump school. If they are available you can go. They will go first to enlisted or officers in airborne units (usually LRSD even in leg units) then to combat arms officers then everyone else. If you get assigned to an airborne unit (75th, 173rd or 82nd) then they automatically get slots. The 44th med brigade used to be airborne but I've heard that they don't currently have that status. The FST should still be airborne.

This leads to the second issue. Even if you go to jump school you don't get to jump out of airplanes unless you have a jump slot. Generally these are the units listed above. The other thing to consider is the Army has a way of making things that seem "fun" less fun. For example camping is fun. Bivouac not so fun. Running fun, formation running with a bunch of hungover drunks less than fun. Jump school is the same way. You spend a bunch of time doing stuff that's less than fun in order to do five static line jumps. If you want fun go to skydiving school. If you want to serve with the fittest bunch of alcoholics in the world then go airborne.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[GeraldMonroe]

The other thing to consider is the Army has a way of making things that seem "fun" less fun.

👍👍👍👍

Dovetails with my experiences exactly.

And that list of operations you gave, the question isn't whether paratroopers were used in combat, it was whether they could have accomplished the mission another way with less casualties.

I did read a book on the Grenada operation, and it seemed like the Pentagon didn't plan the operation with the goal of invading the island with the fewest Americans killed. It seemed more like they planned it by having representatives from the entire military in a room, everyone trying to find a place in the operation for "their" unit.

 

[core0]

👍👍👍👍

Dovetails with my experiences exactly.

And that list of operations you gave, the question isn't whether paratroopers were used in combat, it was whether they could have accomplished the mission another way with less casualties.

I did read a book on the Grenada operation, and it seemed like the Pentagon didn't plan the operation with the goal of invading the island with the fewest Americans killed. It seemed more like they planned it by having representatives from the entire military in a room, everyone trying to find a place in the operation for "their" unit.

Grenada was before my time but I would agree with you. The Rangers definitely did their job which was airfield seizure. Whether it could have been done another way is a question above my pay grade. Panama was another example. The mission that the Seals were on at Patilla airport could have been done by an Apache. On the other hand taking Torrejon would have involved fighting through the city. By taking the airport from the air the conflict was shortened (from what I saw). The big issue was not so much everyone trying to find a place for "their unit" as much as the fact that the units couldn't operate together or talk to each other. That was the real legacy from Grenada, when we went to the Desert we didn't have any of those problems.

Until 93 or so the airborne units were the premier light infantry units in the US. With their current configuration they represent a large group of light infantry that can be placed anywhere in the world in a short amount of time. Few other groups can claim that.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[acbyrd]

If you want to go to jump school, I would imagine that if you could convince your friendly O-6 boss to pull some strings, you could go. It would be a ton of paperwork (that he probably doesn't have time for), and unless your friendly O-6 boss is like a green beret or something, I doubt he's going to care enough to pull those strings. And you're in the Navy? Seriously, it's going to be tough. You're trying to get a slot at a fun school in another branch of the armed services, and you're in an MOS that has no need for jump wings.

There are a lot of nay-sayers on these forums and hate to join their ranks, but then again, you are asking too much. There's another guy who wants to know about being a "ranger doc." That strikes me as a little nieve. If you want to jump out of air planes and do all that stuff, then medicine (at the MD/DO level) is really not the field for you.

Now if anyone who is still in college reads this, that's different. You can join the Army, join a combat MOS, and get your fun stuff knocked out -- then go to med school. That's what I did. I think you'll find that going to medical school first is going to all but eliminate you from those cool schools.