Military Med

[guzkre]

What is the advantage of going through the military for your med school? What benefits does this offer (other than $$). Similarly, is there a difference between taking scholarship vs going to the military med schoo (USUHS?) Just curious to see which route is ideal for me?

Opinions?

Thnx all

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[28129]

Can't get sued if you work at a Veteran's Hospital.

 

[NRAI2001]

Is it generally easier to get into a military med school. Most people I ve talked to consider this a last resort.

 

[TTSD]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
Is it generally easier to get into a military med school. Most people I ve talked to consider this a last resort.

Military or VA? A lot of VERY VERY smart people work with at VA hospitals so don't even try knocking it!

As for military, a lot of people consider it for the financial advantages it offers especially those suffering under heavy student loans. That poor Rebecca Park was going into military medicine to help pay off her loans :-\

 

[quideam]

Although I agree that USUHS is easier to get into than a lot of other schools, I don't think that many consider it a last resort. Some people I know would never apply there, and others have it as their top choice. I think it's kind of like the DO thing - it IS a "last resort" for some, but many actually want to go there!

To answer the original question, I can only use my own personal reasoning. I am really interested in USUHS for several reasons, aside from the $. In fact, the $ isn't even my main concern.

1. Awesome medical training - you get an additional 700 hours of emergency medicine training, which includes an entire month of field combat medicine.

2. Really cool rotations where you get a chance to work with NASA, the CDC, the doctors at the White House, etc. You also have the opprotunity to get certified/work as a flight surgeon, or diving medince, etc.

3. After you graduate, you will have the opportunity (or burden, I suppose) to be stationed overseas and work in the kind of environment that many will never experience. Germany, Iraq, N. Korea, various African countries... not "fun" places to be, certainly, but I think that the experience of practicing somewhat "bare-bones" medicine would be rewarding.

4. My personal goal is to eventually volunteer full-time for Doctors Without Borders. In order to be effective with them, I want training - both in military defense tactics and in medicine. USUHS' motto is "good medicine in bad places" - that's what I want to do.

5. Mandatory physical fitness rocks. But that's just me

Well, that's my reasoning... PM me if you want to talk. I have my interview there in a few weeks, so i'll be able to give some details about my experience. I have also arranged to shadow a surgeon at Walter Reed the day after my interview (Sept. 25th), so I can post about that as well.

(oh, and btw, I have excellent stats - 3.83/33, so it's certainly NOT a last resort school... don't feel badly about doing military! Academia just has a grudge against it.)

- Quid

 

[NRAI2001]

Sorry I didn't mean to knock on military schools. I m just starting my Jr. Year at Berkeley, so I don't really know much about the process. I just know that my friends that were and are appyling right now really didn't want to go, a few applied but it wasn't any of their top choices.

 

[guzkre]

thnx for the great post quideam. that really answered all my questions. i don't think of usuhs as a last resort by any means. its i think some people may have moral questions about serving with army. but again, thnx.

 

[Homunculus]

moved to military medicine/residencies. i think you'll get more responses there

 

[brats800]

Originally posted by roar
In fact, if it's not a person's top choice and it's the only place they got in, then i'd suggest waiting another year and reapplying to other civilian schools.

i agree with this statement 100%. the key point you'll see on every thread about military medicine (be it USUHS, HPSP or whatever) is that you don't do it for the $ or any reason other than it is your first choice for what you want to do. i am pretty sure that i'll be going to USUHS or doing HPSP because military medicine IS my first choice. its not second rate but yes, it is different. there's pro's and con's to it, but its what i want to do. hope to see a bunch of you at USUHS in a year or two...

 

[Caffeinated]

Originally posted by ShantanuThakur
Can't get sued if you work at a Veteran's Hospital.

The original question was about military medical school (i.e., USUHS). Military physicians do not work in "Veteran's Hospitals." True, military hospitals and VA hospitals are both government owned, but there is a BIG distinction. VA Hospitals are run by the VA (Dept of Veterans Affairs). The military medical school and the entire military healthcare system are run by Dept of Defense. These are separate departments with different Cabinet-level Secretaries running the departments. The hsspitals under these two departments take care of different populations.

Now that I have that distinction out of the way, let me address the other part of the statement. You CAN get sued as a DoD or VA provider. The difference is that the gov't serves as the defendent in the provider's place. That being said, you are more insulated from frivolous lawsuits, but it is by no means a license to hurt, maim, or give substandard care. DoD and VA providers are held to a standard of care just as any civilian. All providers must have active, current licensure to be credentialed in a government healthcare facility, and the facilties undergo survey and accreditation by the Joint Commission (JCAHO).

I hope that clears it up.

 

[Caffeinated]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
Is it generally easier to get into a military med school. Most people I ve talked to consider this a last resort.

USUHS isn't really into accepting people to fulfill "last resorts." In my application and at my interview I was asked about my motivation for pursuing military medicine. Given that most medical school applicants do not want to join the military, it's no surprise that the applicant pool would be smaller. If smaller applicant pool means "easier" then I guess you are right in saying it's easier.

I speak only for myself (but I can assure you that many of my classmates feel the same as me): I CHOSE this route. It wasn't my last resort--it was my first choice. I had competetive scores, and I turned down an a spot at a good civilian school to go to USUHS.

 

[NRAI2001]

When I said easier, I meant less competitive.

 

[rotatores]

NRAI2001,

I'm curious as to why you think USUHS is less competitive?

ENS Rotatores

 

[NRAI2001]

Like Caffienated said, there is a smaller application pool. From all of the premeds I know, not a single one of them is applying to any military schools.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

NRAI2001,
I don't really want to start a battle, but I can't help but point out that UC Berkeley is one of the least friendly places for anyone interested in the military, and would undoubtedly produce few people genuinely interested in serving in the military as a physician. It would be a tough 4 years "in the closet" as a pro military student at Berkeley. I would imagine that's why it seems like a last resort to you, out there it must be.
That being said, I've been a DOD physician for 4 years, 4 year HPSP scholarship student at a state university med school (so I'm not biased toward USUHS) before that. In my internship class, there were people from George Washington, Georgetown, Penn, Hopkins, Indiana, UCLA, as well as many from USUHS. What you will find when you get away from applicant fever is that people stratify out at all medical schools, and there's a wide range of intellectual ability at all of them. There were HPSP interns (from "good" schools) that I wouldn't let treat my pets, a couple failed, but as a whole everyone was very competent. No one from USUHS was a poor or marginal intern, and some of the best doctors I know trained there. No one went there because it was the only place he got in. Board scores for all the schools were all over the spectrum.
Just to second another post, the DOD and the VA are totally separate, I've never set foot in a VA.
Plus, the USUHS folks get some amazing experiences that the civilian world can't touch. Wilderness medicine, combat casualty care, tropical medicine, etc. Plus, they get paid a salary with no tuition. I wish I had gone there.
Anyway, sorry for the rant but I've got to stick up for some very smart friends. HOOYAH!
DD

 

[tonem]

Can anyone tell me what this thread has to do with military residency? I thought it was better suited for the forum (pre-allo) in which it was originally posted? Oh well what do I know.

 

[NRAI2001]

I am actually very pro military, what I stated before was just what I had heard from friends, at no time did i ever say that military schools produce below par physicians. I think u guys got the wrong implications from what I had said earlier. If you go back to my first statement I was asking a question not making a statement. I am actually considering going to a military med school, I am just trying to learn more about them.

I had another questoin, If you attend a military med school do u have to go into military medicine? Can u go into other specialities?

 

[rotatores]

I had another questoin, If you attend a military med school do u have to go into military medicine? Can u go into other specialities?

At USUHS we're trained to be military physicians...if that is what you mean but there is no military medicine speciality.

ENS Rotatores

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by tonem
Can anyone tell me what this thread has to do with military residency? I thought it was better suited for the forum (pre-allo) in which it was originally posted? Oh well what do I know.

people who know more about military medicine are more likely to frequent this forum than pre-allo. just trying to give the post more useful exposure

 

[NRAI2001]

What I meant was that after graduating from a military school, can u do a residency in maybe cardiology or surgery or any thing else that doesnt have to do with the military. Also is there a surgical military medicine speciality?

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
What I meant was that after graduating from a military school, can u do a residency in maybe cardiology or surgery or any thing else that doesnt have to do with the military. Also is there a surgical military medicine speciality?

there is only one military medical school-- USUHS.

cardiology is a fellowship done after residency. you can do a residency in surgery, family practice, peds, whatever you decide you want to do. there isn't a "military medicine" residency. You can do surgery, but there isn't a "military medicine" surgical specialty.

 

[Alli Cat]

Originally posted by Caffeinated
All providers must have active, current licensure to be credentialed in a government healthcare facility, and the facilties undergo survey and accreditation by the Joint Commission (JCAHO).

I hope that clears it up.

Oh no, and the reason I wanted to go to USUHS was to avoid godd*mned JCAHO!!!

 

[Teufelhunden]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
What I meant was that after graduating from a military school, can u do a residency in maybe cardiology or surgery or any thing else that doesnt have to do with the military.

How does cardiology or surgery NOT have anything to do with the military

First of all, military doctors provide healthcare to active duty military, their dependents (spouses, children), and to retirees. As you can see, the patient population is not all that different from the civilian sector.

And of course, these people will acquire the same illnesses and need all the same treatments as civilians do. That's why the military has physicians in virtually every specialty imaginable.

Yes, there are some doctors in the military who focus on purely military medicine issues (Flight Surgeons, Dive Officers, etc.) but the majority are just taking care of patients, just like you'd do anywhere else...without all the hassles of insurance paperwork, though

FYI...here's a list of navy residency programs:

Navy GME programs

 

[edinOH]

Originally posted by guzkre
thnx for the great post quideam. that really answered all my questions. i don't think of usuhs as a last resort by any means. its i think some people may have moral questions about serving with army. but again, thnx.

If you are a U.S citizen I can't imagine what kind of "moral questions" you would be referring to.

Care to elaborate?

 

[patriot_missile]

Hey tell me what happens if you do the usuhs, then work as a gmo for several years(but dont complete your contract-still owe them), and then just decide to quit? For example quit medicine all together(and say something like you hate the military). Then if you continue to live in the u.s. (for example 3 months out of the year) and even have some property there, can they take away your property or even arrest you? And the years that you worked as a gmo, you liked your job and nobody complained against you, but once you decide to quit, you turn around 180degrees and tell them you'll flee the country if anything?

Anothing, even more daring option, what if after usuhs you do the military residensy and the flee the country to canada, can you practice medicine then(assuming you have both american and u.s. citizenships)? What will they do to that?

Oh, and if you ask why, well even though you dont get paid much as a luitenant in usuhs, you also dont have to worry about getting all A's or doing any research or other civilian bull****. And i assume you might save a decent amount too.

 

[NRAI2001]

Oh, and if you ask why, well even though you dont get paid much as a luitenant in usuhs, you also dont have to worry about getting all A's or doing any research or other civilian bull****. And i assume you might save a decent amount to

What the hell was that last post about? Fleeing the Country? Canada? Straight A's and research? I didn't understand a single pt u made?

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

I'm going to attempt to respond to the idiotic post by patriot-missile on the anniversary of the attack on America, because a couple of points might be worth a look though as a whole the post is pure garbage.
If for some reason you cannot complete your HPSP or USUHS obligation, you are not relieved of your military commitment. The HPSP contract specifically says that it cannot be "bought out" if you change your mind, you owe the 3-4 years. If you can't do it as a physician, you are assigned duties as a medical service corps officer doing administrative work...stuff where you can't kill anyone. I know of 2 physicians who failed their internships, failed remediation and were made to go this pathway. They were both appalling Doctors and all were thankful that they were kept from practicing medicine, they should never have graduated medical school anyway. But they'll serve their 4 years.
If you do something illegal (drugs, felony, DESERTION is what leaving the country is called, P-M) you will be prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), then separated from the military and then billed for all of your education expenses TIMES THREE. This in addition to jail time. And yes, you wonderful example of dual citizenship Mr. Patriot-missile, your assets can be seized and you can be arrested even if you only spend "3 months a year" in the US.
As for "no research or all A's or other BS", just because you went to USUHS doesn't mean you'll ever get the residency you want. You're guaranteed an internship in a military hospital if you graduate medical school, but not in your specialty or location of choice. There will likely be a psych internship in El Paso Texas for you, but forget a follow-on residency with that attitude. The competitive specialties are competetive in the military, too.
P-M, do us all a favor and cancel your med-school applications, or HPSP applications if it's too late to keep you out of medicine. As I look out the window while I write this, the flag is at half-mast in honor of those who died on this day 2 years ago, and in honor of my friends and shipmates who serve now in the war that began that day. Feel free to leave the military to those of us who want to serve, feel free to leave the country right now, feel free to come to my command so I can introduce you to some folks who might have strong opinions about your med-school funding plans. Remember that you ARE free because of sacrifices made by the military, we're not some slush fund for dual-citizen scavengers like yourself.
DD

 

[Teufelhunden]

Originally posted by patriot_missile
For example quit medicine all together(and say something like you hate the military). Then if you continue to live in the u.s. (for example 3 months out of the year) and even have some property there, can they take away your property or even arrest you? And the years that you worked as a gmo, you liked your job and nobody complained against you, but once you decide to quit, you turn around 180degrees and tell them you'll flee the country if anything?

Anothing, even more daring option, what if after usuhs you do the military residensy and the flee the country to canada, can you practice medicine then(assuming you have both american and u.s. citizenships)? What will they do to that?

Oh, and if you ask why, well even though you dont get paid much as a luitenant in usuhs, you also dont have to worry about getting all A's or doing any research or other civilian bull****. And i assume you might save a decent amount too.

"Flee the country?"

You make me want to vomit. As a former Marine Sergeant and current Navy HPSP student, I of course have strong opinions about people like you.

What people of your ilk will never understand is that it is an honor to serve your country; it is an absolute privilege to be able to wear the uniform of a U.S. soldier, sailor, airman or Marine.

I was (and still am) proud to be a United States Marine. I am proud to be a Naval Officer. I consider service to one?s country to be the highest ?calling? one can receive. Its about being part of something greater than yourself. An HPSP scholarship or USUHS appointment is not a ?means to and end,? its not just some way to finance your medical education. It?s a commitment to serve your country; a commitment to serve your fellow soldiers/sailors/airmen/Marines and their families. It?s a willingness to make sacrifices?sacrifices that need to be made to ensure our way of life.

Please, do the entire U.S. military a favor and don?t even consider USUHS or HPSP.

 

[edinOH]

If you apply to USUHS or HPSP I think you should by all means ask this question during your interview. I'm sure you will get the proper answer.

 

[patriot_missile]

Originally posted by Navy Dive Doc
I'm going to attempt to respond to the idiotic post by patriot-missile on the anniversary of the attack on America, because a couple of points might be worth a look though as a whole the post is pure garbage.
WHATEVER-read my thread on "i dont know what career to choose"

If for some reason you cannot complete your HPSP or USUHS obligation, you are not relieved of your military commitment. The HPSP contract specifically says that it cannot be "bought out" if you change your mind, you owe the 3-4 years. If you can't do it as a physician, you are assigned duties as a medical service corps officer doing administrative work...stuff where you can't kill anyone. I know of 2 physicians who failed their internships, failed remediation and were made to go this pathway. They were both appalling Doctors and all were thankful that they were kept from practicing medicine, they should never have graduated medical school anyway. But they'll serve their 4 years.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION. BUT DO YOU KNOW ANYBODY WHO DIDNT FAIL THE MED SCHOOL AND SAY SERVED PART OF THE COMMITMENT BUT THEN JUST SAID "I DONT WANT TO BE A DOCTOR OR TO SERVE YOUR COUNTRY OR I LEAVE JUST BECAUSE" AND JUST WOULDNT COME TO WORK ANY MORE? SO THE COURT MARTIAL WILL TREAT HIM SAME WAY AS A REGULAR MARINE?? THAT IS MAKE HIM GO TO JAIL.etc?? OR JUST RELEASE HIM WITH DISHONORARY DISCHARGE? AS FOR MONEY, WHAT IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY, THEN THEY CANT SEIZE ANYTHING CAN THEY?

If you do something illegal (drugs, felony, DESERTION is what leaving the country is called, P-M) you will be prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), then separated from the military and then billed for all of your education expenses TIMES THREE. This in addition to jail time. And yes, you wonderful example of dual citizenship Mr. Patriot-missile, your assets can be seized and you can be arrested even if you only spend "3 months a year" in the US.
As for "no research or all A's or other BS", just because you went to USUHS doesn't mean you'll ever get the residency you want. You're guaranteed an internship in a military hospital if you graduate medical school, but not in your specialty or location of choice. There will likely be a psych internship in El Paso Texas for you, but forget a follow-on residency with that attitude. The competitive specialties are competetive in the military, too.
PLEASE I KNOW IT IS EASIER TO GET INTO THE MILITARY PROGRAMS. IVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH. DOESNT IT SAY THAT 3.5 and 30MCAT GETS YOU AN AUTOMATIC ADMISSION TO HPSP AND SOMETHING SIMILAR TO USUHS? SOME OF THE REASONS I CAN NAME:
1)NOT MANY PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MILITARY.
2)MILITARY DOESNT REQUIRE ANY COMMUNITY SERVICE OR OTHER "PERSONALITY" bull****, WHICH I THINK MAKES IT EASIER
3)IF YOU DO IT FOR THE MONEY AND PLAN TO BE A DOCTOR FOR SOME TIME, OBVIOUSLY THE CIVILIAN ROUTE IS BETTER SINCE YOU DONT LOSE 4 YEARS ON 75k or similar low pay.
4)RESEARCH NOT REQUIRED BECAUSE IT"S THE MILITARY!
5)FEW MINORITIES!

P-M, do us all a favor and cancel your med-school applications, or HPSP applications if it's too late to keep you out of medicine. As I look out the window while I write this, the flag is at half-mast in honor of those who died on this day 2 years ago, and in honor of my friends and shipmates who serve now in the war that began that day. Feel free to leave the military to those of us who want to serve, feel free to leave the country right now, feel free to come to my command so I can introduce you to some folks who might have strong opinions about your med-school funding plans.
IS THAT A CHALLENGE? I ACTUALLY HAVE A FIGHT SET UP FOR TOMORROW HERE IN QUBEC WITH SOMEONE THAT HAD AN ARGUMENT WITH ME OVER THE INTERNET. HOPE HE SHOWS UP, HE DIDNT PISS ME OFF TOO MUCH BUT I HOPE IF HE INSULTS ME HE HAS THE GUTS TO SHOW UP. AS FOR YOU, I KNOW IT IS NOT PRACTICAL, SO IM NOT CHALLENGING YOU OR ANYTHING.
Remember that you ARE free because of sacrifices made by the military, we're not some slush fund for dual-citizen scavengers like yourself.
I AM IN CANADA AND YOUR MILITARY DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO ME. AND IF I JUST WANTED TO SACRIFICE MYSELF IN IRAQ I WOULD ENLIST AS A MARINE!
DD

Now please tell in case i seriously considered USUHS(which would be 2 years away from applying anyway):
Do you have 4 years of obligation for it, so 1yr internship+4 as a gmo? You get paid as a luitenant during med school-does it mean you can actually save some money? Most important-do you get more free time in USUHS than in the civilian med school?? What would be your daily routine at usuhs? Also in civilian med school you have a 3months holiday(which isnt really a holiday as you have to do research or other bull****), what do you do in the USUHS during that time (year 1,2)? What is the most advanced training that you can get with regards to diving, flying and other recreational activities while at usuhs? I dont mean like becoming a professional pilot, but something more than just aerospace medicinie course perhaps?

 

[patriot_missile]

Teufel and Edin, i believe i answered in previous posts that i dont give a damn for your moral questions and I also am not applying anywhere yet. But I may still answer some things: even if i loved usa and blalblabla, no way that would stay if i had kids-they'd be raised much better if their dad were a civilian. And i used the search function and did find posts about people who were tricked into joining the military and hpsp and then had to suffer through 4 years(and thats just a number to the people in pentagon, not if you have kids growing up). So don't equate me to some terrorist if i trick your military. But yes, it does seem like a stupid option to me, i now believe if i am to apply to usuhs in several years, it is very unlikely that i'd mess with court martials. But never hurts to ask.

 

[Primate]

As edinOH suggests, I don't think you'd really have to worry about courts martial should you apply to USUHS. An application is not an acceptance (and I get the feeling that even a 45 on the MCAT wouldn't help you there).

To the respondents, I just want to say "thanks." Not for answering P-M's post, but for answering the call.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

Thanks Primate, Teufelhunden and all the other good folks with an appreciation for the military.

Patriot-missile, I read the rest of your posts and simply realized that you're just a kid, and don't have a clue.

Please don't lecture us about your morals - "of, pertaining to or concerned with right conduct or principles" per Random House Dictionary. Looking into "all your options" to include fraudulent use of government funds with the intent to desert and flee the country pretty much prevents you from lecturing others about ethical principles. The $5000 you made in one night likely didn't happen legally, either, unless you're one hell of a male stripper.

Everyday I'm proud to put on my uniform and serve my country, honorably and voluntarily. P-M, you would not be happy or welcome in a situation where people truly believe in the Navy core values of Honor, Courage, Commitment.

I'm not as angry as I was yesterday, more saddened than anything else. My hope for you is that eventually you'll figure out what really matters in life, and gain a little perspective.

HOOYAH DEEP SEA, GO NAVY.

DD

 

[randomdude]

"IS THAT A CHALLENGE? I ACTUALLY HAVE A FIGHT SET UP FOR TOMORROW HERE IN QUBEC WITH SOMEONE THAT HAD AN ARGUMENT WITH ME OVER THE INTERNET. HOPE HE SHOWS UP, HE DIDNT PISS ME OFF TOO MUCH BUT I HOPE IF HE INSULTS ME HE HAS THE GUTS TO SHOW UP. AS FOR YOU, I KNOW IT IS NOT PRACTICAL, SO IM NOT CHALLENGING YOU OR ANYTHING."

Please excuse me but....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who the hell actually sets up a fight over an argument over the internet? Who the hell would get that fired up over an argument on the internet? Who actually believes that a fight is set up? That is pathetic. Pathetic! If I insult you right now, will you challenge me? P-M, you are a PANSY and a COWARD. Now, please challenge me. I need a great big laugh. You give Canadians a bad name.

I know people wanted to put this to rest, but I had to put my 2 cents in. I feel better now.

Go Army medicine. Better yet, go Army. Better still, go USA.
Hooah.

 

[Apollyon]

patriot_missile

You have "idiot" written all over you in crayon and marker...which is about your speed.

As for the rest of you grungy, barnacled life-takers and heartbreakers...

Count me as another among those that thank you for being hard-charging, and putting "our guys" back together.

 

[NRAI2001]

Are military med schools for men and women, or just for men?

 

[Homunculus]

completely co-ed

 

[rgporter]

Originally posted by Navy Dive Doc
I'm going to attempt to respond to the idiotic post by patriot-missile on the anniversary of the attack on America, because a couple of points might be worth a look though as a whole the post is pure garbage.
If for some reason you cannot complete your HPSP or USUHS obligation, you are not relieved of your military commitment. The HPSP contract specifically says that it cannot be "bought out" if you change your mind, you owe the 3-4 years. If you can't do it as a physician, you are assigned duties as a medical service corps officer doing administrative work...stuff where you can't kill anyone. I know of 2 physicians who failed their internships, failed remediation and were made to go this pathway. They were both appalling Doctors and all were thankful that they were kept from practicing medicine, they should never have graduated medical school anyway. But they'll serve their 4 years.
If you do something illegal (drugs, felony, DESERTION is what leaving the country is called, P-M) you will be prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), then separated from the military and then billed for all of your education expenses TIMES THREE. This in addition to jail time. And yes, you wonderful example of dual citizenship Mr. Patriot-missile, your assets can be seized and you can be arrested even if you only spend "3 months a year" in the US.
As for "no research or all A's or other BS", just because you went to USUHS doesn't mean you'll ever get the residency you want. You're guaranteed an internship in a military hospital if you graduate medical school, but not in your specialty or location of choice. There will likely be a psych internship in El Paso Texas for you, but forget a follow-on residency with that attitude. The competitive specialties are competetive in the military, too.
P-M, do us all a favor and cancel your med-school applications, or HPSP applications if it's too late to keep you out of medicine. As I look out the window while I write this, the flag is at half-mast in honor of those who died on this day 2 years ago, and in honor of my friends and shipmates who serve now in the war that began that day. Feel free to leave the military to those of us who want to serve, feel free to leave the country right now, feel free to come to my command so I can introduce you to some folks who might have strong opinions about your med-school funding plans. Remember that you ARE free because of sacrifices made by the military, we're not some slush fund for dual-citizen scavengers like yourself.
DD

You guys rule.
It's great to see that other people feel the way I do about military medicine. I was getting a little depressed, thinking everyone who joins thought of it as just another scholorship oportunity.
I have a very competitive application, I could probably be accepted at any given top 10 school. But I would feel lucky to go to USUHS. I want to serve the country, and I want my education to prepare me for it from day one.
Thanks for showing me that there are people who still believe in serving the country. I hope to be joining those of you who attend USUHS, in 2004.

 

[Caffeinated]

rgporter,

At USUHS, you will have a hard time finding people who are in the military for "just another scholarship." That attitude may exist among some HPSP folks. It sounds like you have the right attitude to knock the socks off of the USU admissions committee. Best of luck to you!

Caff

 

[DermpathDO]

I agree with the replies that were made to patriot missile. But i wish to put my 2 cents in here. Not everyone enjoys the military experience once they get into the internship or the GMO years. If you end up taking your internship or first year PGY in a program other than the military, you probably will be required to do your GMO years to fulfill your obligation before you can take the rest of your residency. This is even if you have a commitment for 4 years at the residency program of your choice. When the military needs docs, they will take them from wherever, sort of like the draft.
I have friends who had to do 3 years of GMO beofre they could finsih thier residencies. They were not happy.
Another problem is where you end up doing your GMO, it will likely NOT be done in the US. it will probably be a little backwater military camp in europe, Korea or Asia. You may even end up in afghanistan or Iraq. Most of the time, the patients are appreciative of the DOCs, however there is this little camp of a "I deserve this" mentality where if a doc doesnt do what the paitent thinks he/she deserves, well...terrible things can happen, especially in a culture where guns and grenades are freely floating around.
The other issue I wanted to address is if you wanted to leave the program after completing school/residency but before completing your obligation. This don't work. Believe me. I know of several instances where people tried to get out thier military obligations. Yes you do have to pay them back times three, you also end up in jail, which makes it tough to pay them back.
I know of only one instance where you might get out of the obligation. That is where you have some medical problem, where the military decides it is in THEIR best interests to terminate the contract. Then you have no obligation to pay them back. However, you have to be pretty out of it, or they need to feel your medical problem will be a danger to thier soldiers. Usually you wouldn't pass the physical required to even get into the program.
My advice....is if you want to get out after all the training?? Go run your car into a train or cliff.....that would give you the medical injuries to get dumped by the military.Oh....but then you might also DIE.

 

[edmadison]

Originally posted by DermpathDO
Not everyone enjoys the military experience once they get into the internship or the GMO years. If you end up taking your internship or first year PGY in a program other than the military, you probably will be required to do your GMO years to fulfill your obligation before you can take the rest of your residency.

This is no longer the policy of the Army (although it was until a few years ago). The current policy of the Army is that if you are not selected to do a residency in the Army in your specialty of choice, you are deferred to the civilian match for a civilian residency. You are deferred until the conclusion of that residency. You will then go on active duty following your civillian residency, unless the give you another deferral for fellowship, which is unlikely unless in a field the need a lot, like Neonatology. There is one caveat, the Army will not allow you a deferral to go into a joint residency program that increases the duration of your residency training. Thus, no med-peds, et al.

Ed

 

[NRAI2001]

Originally posted by edmadison
There is one caveat, the Army will not allow you a deferral to go into a joint residency program that increases the duration of your residency training. Thus, no med-peds, et al.

Ed

I didn't quite understand what you meant by this?

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
I didn't quite understand what you meant by this?

basically it means that if you want to get double boarded, you'll have to do it on your own time. the only way they will allow you to get dual boarded is by doing it through the military. the army has med/psych and fp/psych programs, but no other double board programs, so if you want med-peds or peds-er or whatever you'll have to wait.

 

[NRAI2001]

Originally posted by Homonculus
basically it means that if you want to get double boarded, you'll have to do it on your own time. the only way they will allow you to get dual boarded is by doing it through the military. the army has med/psych and fp/psych programs, but no other double board programs, so if you want med-peds or peds-er or whatever you'll have to wait.

O I see.