SDN members see fewer ads and full resolution images. Join our non-profit community!

Minimum BSN for Professional Recognition

Discussion in 'Clinicians [ RN / NP / PA ]' started by Sherry, Jun 23, 2000.

  1. Sherry

    Sherry Member 10+ Year Member

    98
    0
    May 3, 2000
    I am wondering why the debate continues as to whether or not a BSN should be required for minimum Professional Recognition? No other profession in the US would allow their members such varying minimum standards to hold one title.

    Canada has recently enacted legislation that will only allow those with a BS to use the title RN. What is taking us so long? Spare me the nursing shortage issues...no other profession in the US would buy it.

    Could you imagine your CPA telling you that he "learned all he needed to know in community college" because he had more "hands on" experience; you would take your money and run, not walk to a true professional! Yet we still allow ADNs and even diploma RNs (who make life and death decisions about our loved ones) to spew out such nonsense.

    Perhaps these debates are still why the nursing "profession" is only seen as a profession from the INSIDE OUT!!!

    [This message has been edited by Sherry (edited 06-23-2000).]
     
  2. SDN Members don't see this ad. About the ads.
  3. RDJ

    RDJ

    This is a really touchy subject with some people. Especially since many nurses and the ANA are struggling for more recognition, respect, money, etc. I would argue two points with you. First, if you would check, I bet you would find that nursing is among the top 10 respected professions in the USA. Second, in my experience, whether or not a nurse has a BSN or an ADN is not a good predictor of the quality of patient care he/she provides. I can quote statistics where ADN programs have better NCLEX pass rates than prominent University programs. I will refrain from sharing them on this site, because I am not in the habit of slamming professional programs on boards such as this. The fact is, I know some great ADN nurses, some great BSN nurses, and some horrible nurses from both backgrounds. I would refrain from judging a nurse based on what program he/she graduated from. I have seen BSN nurses do this, just before the ADN nurse was promoted over them, OUCH!
    Aside from the ego/respect issue; there is the most important issue of all-- patient care. Most provider programs are increasing their education standard. In a few years, most/all the PA, PT, OT, etc programs are going to be Master?s level degrees. With the advances in health care, technology and science that are made everyday this is a necessary step. With that said, nursing programs need to get on the ball. The standards are changing, e.g. the US military (upon entry) and the Veterans department (by the year 2005?) have made it a requirement that all their nurses have a BSN. I expect the rest of the nation will follow suit.

    I would like to reiterate, in order to ensure that all patient care is conducted to the highest of standards, I am all for the requirement for more education, namely a BSN. However, do not make the mistake of assuming you know more or are better than the ADN nurse. The same argument is used with physicians, generally speaking, it is not the school name on the diploma that makes a person a better professional, it is the sum total of all their personal qualities and experiences.

    Signed, an unbiased observer


    [This message has been edited by RDJ (edited 07-06-2000).]
     
  4. Matt Norman

    Matt Norman Member 10+ Year Member

    37
    0
    Feb 28, 2000
    Auburndale
    Say what you will about ADN nurses versus BSN nurses. However, after four years working in an ER with both ADN and BSN nurses I can tell you that without asking you can not tell the level of education of one nurse from another. As for the nursing shortage being an excuse. Well you must not be in an area hit hard by this shortage or you wouldn't care how much education a nurse had just so long as they had a license. the hospital I work at is so short that we've had to close floors to combine the staff from two different floors in order to take care of the patients. Finally, in talking to both aDn and BSN nurses I feel that the onl;y thing my ADN program was missing was more clinical time and BSN students don't get that either so for now at least I don't think a BSN should be required to practice.

    ------------------
    Love God, Hate Sin
     
  5. ShannonB

    ShannonB Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    10
    0
    May 31, 2000
    Russellville, AR USA
    I chose to pursue my BSN even though an ADN program is also available in my area. I could have been finished and practicing by now as an RN but I chose to invest the extra time and effort in getting my BSN instead. I've noticed that many people cite finances as a reason for choosing an ADN over a BSN. By making my decision to pursue a BSN, I have accrued at this point almost $30,000 in student loans. I still firmly believe that this is money well spent. Quite frankly, I believe that in order for nurses to present a more unified and professional front, we should all have the same degrees. I don't think that a BSN is too much to ask. I'm not trying to anger any ADN or diploma nurses out there by making these statements. I have already had the privelege of learning from many wonderful RN's of varying degrees. However, I think our profession as a whole only be improved by upping the bar a bit to require all new graduate RN's to have their bachelor's degrees. A bachelor's degree ensures a well-rounded education and, in my opinion, SHOULD be the requirement for nursing in the near future. I've noticed that North Dakota only hires bachelor's prepared nurses and apparently Colorado may be following suit at least in some areas. (When I researched nurse employment opportunities in CO I noticed that for new grads a BSN is required there.) I'll keep my fingers crossed that this will come to pass for other states as well. Best of luck to all.
    Shannon
     
  6. bq235

    bq235 New Member

    3
    0
    Jul 12, 2000
    Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I am a new BSN graduate now working as an RN here in Hawaii. With the proposed changes by the ANA w.r.t. education level for RN's, I feel that I made the right choice of opting for a BSN rather than an ADN degree. However, Matt Norman was also right in suggesting that nurse's experience is what makes the difference in patient care. Why then do we continue to have this dichotomy of RNs? To me, it's about economics. ADN schools would not want to lose their business and therefore would continue to fight pushing for their ADN programs. At the same time, many students who cannot afford the time to spend 4 years of full-time school are attracted to a 2-year degree that will eventually ensure them of a title (RN) and earning power equal to those who have labored in a 4-year degree.

    Nevertheless, I am glad to have invested the time and money to pursue a BSN. With a BSN degree, career upward mobility or career flexibility is more achievable than with an ADN. A BSN allows you to easily foray into graduate school to become a nurse practitioner or nurse anesthetist. An ADN nurse must go back to school to earn the credits before becoming eligible to apply. In addition, BSN programs provide a semester in community nursing, which is not offered in our community colleges here. With the changes in our health care system, a background in community health nursing gives BSNs an advantage over the ADN counterpart. At the same time, our class had a semester long discussion on trends in insurance issues (e.g., capitation, HMO, fee-for-service, etc.). This allowed us to gain a deep understanding and appreciation of what goes on in the health care arena, and how these issues will affect nurses. I could go on. The bottom line is that BSN students come out of their programs with a well-rounded education.

    On the side I would just like to add that I have seen excellent LPNs who also provide quality care, but they are not always given due credit (and respect) by RNs. I consider them as valuable as the next RN in my team of mentors and preceptors.

    ALOHA!
     
  7. Matt Norman

    Matt Norman Member 10+ Year Member

    37
    0
    Feb 28, 2000
    Auburndale
    I am not aby any means down playing the importance of a BSN. I fully intend to get my BSN. However, With me it was completely a financial decision. As an ADN nurse it took me two years to start earning a decent living. other wise I would have been stuck working as an EMT in the ER for four two more years earning about 6.50 an hour and only barely paying my bills. I will get by BSN ad probably my masters. However, for me and many like me the ADN program was the best choice at the time. One more thing to concider. Most of my class probably would not have been in nursing school if it weren't for the ADN program. SO instead of arguing about what's better, let's just encourage our co-workers to pursue further education. for the furtherance of themselves and our profession.


    Matt

    ------------------
    Love God, Hate Sin
     
  8. auburn23

    auburn23 New Member

    2
    0
    Jul 23, 2000
    richmond, va, usa
    hello, i'm new here and it is very interesting that i see this topic right off as im browsing thru. i am a 38 year old woman headed back to school to finish my nursing education after finally getting my four kids in school full time. i have spent many hours debating which program i should apply to, after getting my feet wet at the local junior college this year ( i just registered for this fall today). i was tossing around three options. number one is to just stay at this j.c. and finish their program, go to a three year program in the area, or the university here in town and get my BSN straight out. i will eventually want my BSN but i was thinking of getting the two year degree and working while going back for my BSN. any advice or imput would be great. thanks.
     
  9. Matt Norman

    Matt Norman Member 10+ Year Member

    37
    0
    Feb 28, 2000
    Auburndale
    You know one more thing to concider is the fact that were it not for ADN programs a large majorityof the people in nursing probably wouldn't be here. Besides, alost all of the people in my class intend to go on for their BSN and maybe more. they tipically wanted to go on for the same reasons listed in this discussion. I am not saying it is the pbest possible thing for the profession but many times it is the best, or only, option for the people in the profession. And after all isn't nursing all about people.

    Matt

    ------------------
    Love God, Hate Sin
     
  10. trouserz

    trouserz Member 7+ Year Member

    53
    0
    Sep 10, 2001
    this is a very belated post but i feel i need to contribute. I feel that there should be 1 year ADN programs offered to those with high enough aptitude to pass. i feel 2 years is too long. That way one could pursue their bsn sooner and more cost effectively.
     
  11. Justin

    Justin Member 7+ Year Member

    46
    0
    Apr 22, 2001
    medford,N.Y.,U.S.A.
    How can you tell me, convincingly, that two years worth of humanities and other courses will make one a better nurse than another? Come on, give me a break! We all know that in the health field competence comes through experience. More importantly, in assesing the quality of an individual, are factors such as board scores, personal aptitude, the program from which they graduated(Yes,there are many well respected and tested associate degree programs, and some of these are at community colleges, imagine that!), and last but certainly not least, compassion. BSN programs are great and do give the individual a broader general education, but how that translates into better patient care is beyond me and a bunch of crap! My mother has been a nurse for over 20 years and will, without a doubt, smoke most 1st year residents and definately all newly graduated RN's. In fact, I credit my mother with saving my life through her superb clinical judgement while I was hospitalized a couple of months back. Oh, by the way, she happens to be an RN from a community college program.
     
  12. NurseyK

    NurseyK Bunny-Slave Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Auburn23 -

    It would not be unfeasable to obtain your ADN and, while working part-time, obtain your BSN. Many of my well-respected (former) co-workers have done/are doing just that. Mind you, it takes a little longer than going to school full-time, but you will get the degree nonetheless. A good friend of mine (in her 40's BTW) is just about done with her BSN. She believes that her 15+ years of working experience put her head-and-shoulders above her "straight through school only" classmates in certain aspects of her education. She feels she is able to relate to the subjects easier, and frequently tests her new knowledge and skills when she comes to work. She enjoys the feedback from her fellow RNs, and even the Physicians, in the ER.

    A comment on LPNs, speaking from the vantage point of a former LPN and RN: I firmly believe that my LPN training was superior (yes, you read it right) to my RN training. I was taught the why's and wherefore's, as well as the psychomotor skills and proper documentation techniques necessary to be an excellent practitioner. My RN program, sadly, did not address these issues. The instructors spent much of their time "eating their young" and trying to "break" us. I can truthfully say, RN school was much more emotionally taxing than medical school is turning out to be (the 3 other former RNs in my medschool class agree). One of my former RN instructors even included in her LOR: "Ms. _______ survived Nursing school and ___ years in the Nursing profession. Medical school will be like a vacation for her...." Needless to say, I was questioned about this by my medschool -- the humor was completely lost on them until I described a typical rotation designed to "break" us. "Ah...kind of like....pimping....." Yeah, kindof. :p

    Kat :D
     

Share This Page