Minimum GPA and MCAT Score to be an Attractive Applicant at any School

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
A

altitude

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
302
Reaction score
0
Members do not see this ad.
What is your opinion on the minimum GPA and minimum MCAT score to be an attractive applicant at some of the top US med. schools (assuming above average ECAs)?

Respond to the poll or comment below.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I would say that's pretty high for a MINIMUM MCAT score. I used AAMC's medical school guide to choose my schools, and most of the "respectable" (for the lack of a better term) ones accepted students with an average of 33 in MCAT (scoring 10 or 11 on each section), so I'd definitely say that would be the minimum. I guess if you want the absolute minimum, it would be 30.

3.6-3.7 GPA is probably as low as you want to be.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Upvote 0 Downvote
I consider "top" med schools as Ivies and others like WashU, Case Western, Stanford, Mayo, Mt. Sinai.

Yeah, I'd say anywhere from 3.7/34 to 3.8/36 is competitive at those schools.

Or a LizzyM score of about 71-74.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
muhali3 said:
I consider "top" med schools as Ivies and others like WashU, Case Western, Stanford, Mayo, Mt. Sinai.

Yeah, I'd say anywhere from 3.7/34 to 3.8/36 is competitive at those schools.

Or a LizzyM score of about 71-74.
Click to expand...

What's the LizzyM formula? It seems GPA is weighted slightly more than MCAT.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well, actually, now that I recall, the formula is: GPA*10 + MCAT + 1.

So yeah, low to mid 70s.

But yeah, the LizzyM score is just a gross approximation of competitiveness.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
34/3.6 is competitive everywhere. However, just because you are competitive doesn't mean you will be attractive. Many of the top schools are flooded with students who post big time numbers and GPA. Admissions to top schools comes down to ECs honestly. Do you think people with a 3.4 and a 31 MCAT are applying to Harvard/JH/Mayo? Of course not. The people who apply to those schools almost always have much higher MCAT scores (34+) and much higher GPA (3.6+). Look at the average MCAT/GPA at those schools. We are talking MCATs above 35 and GPAs above 3.80.

Anyways, unless you are aiming for the top 20, go for the school that gives you the best lifestyle (commute, classes, rotations, EC opportinities). Any medical school in the US will prepare you for the Step I exam. There's really no such thing as a bad medical school. Some schools are less competitive, but that's not that big a knock against them as you would think and has more to do with research grant money than anything else. The rankings are not based on residency placements or Step I scores or anything really quantifiable like that but based on NIH grant funding to that particular school.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
what a pointless post... what does it matter what we think the answer is? you can find the actual numbers easily and on top of that the schools will tell you. plus, there's no real absolute minimum as other factors can weigh in and you know all of this so tf? :idea:
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Keep in mind that the student who gets in with the defacto "minimum" is most likely to be the student who has an amazing "experience" section that might have included military service, long-term, full-time volunteer service (e.g. Peace Corps), a doctoral degree, or a particular hardship or unusual up-bringing (raised in a yurt by anthropologist parents studying biomarkers in Mongolian shepherds).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
Keep in mind that the student who gets in with the defacto "minimum" is most likely to be the student who has an amazing "experience" section that might have included military service, long-term, full-time volunteer service (e.g. Peace Corps), a doctoral degree, or a particular hardship or unusual up-bringing (raised in a yurt by anthropologist parents studying biomarkers in Mongolian shepherds).
Click to expand...

LizzyM, what would be the defacto minimum at schools with 33 to 36 median scores (top 30 schools). Does this defacto apply to only URMs or even ORMs with the exceptional experiences you described. Didn't you say earlier that anything below 33 is deemed low by your committee?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Knocked Up said:
LizzyM, what would be the defacto minimum at schools with 33 to 36 median scores (top 30 schools). Does this defacto apply to only URMs or even ORMs with the exceptional experiences you described. Didn't you say earlier that anything below 33 is deemed low by your committee?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that a median can also be a floor when the data are skewed. That is to say that more than half have MCATs of 33 and that is the lowest MCAT accepted, with 49% having MCATs above 33. 😱 In that case the mean will be above 33 but the median will be 33. Totally hyopthetical, though.

My adcom members are looking at 33s as "low" 😱 although we do try to disabuse them of the notion. But we have hundreds of people with >35 so by comparison the 33 looks low although it isn't.

Sometimes, something grabs us and the numbers don't matter. In those cases, the gpa or the MCAT is usually stellar... it is rare for someone who doesn't have both gpa and MCAT to get much traction without some of those extraordinary experiences.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
Keep in mind that a median can also be a floor when the data are skewed. That is to say that more than half have MCATs of 33 and that is the lowest MCAT accepted, with 49% having MCATs above 33. 😱 In that case the mean will be above 33 but the median will be 33. Totally hyopthetical, though.

My adcom members are looking at 33s as "low" 😱 although we do try to disabuse them of the notion. But we have hundreds of people with >35 so by comparison the 33 looks low although it isn't.

Sometimes, something grabs us and the numbers don't matter. In those cases, the gpa or the MCAT is usually stellar... it is rare for someone who doesn't have both gpa and MCAT to get much traction without some of those extraordinary experiences.
Click to expand...

33s are low??? What school are you affiliated with?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Mount Sinai said:
33s are low??? What school are you affiliated with?
Click to expand...

A top 20.... this isn't to say that it is the school's official policy... but that some members of the adcom look at that as "low" compared with the dozens of applicants they see with 38+.

On the other hand, numbers are not everything.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Mount Sinai said:
33s are low??? What school are you affiliated with?
Click to expand...

Lol. I even feel crappier about my score. Just answering 2 to 4 more questions correctly could've put me at a 35-36. 👎

@LizzyM, my GPA (Bio major, math minor) is a 3.87 with a higher science GPA (3.95); does this help an MCAT score of 33 (9V, 12 PS, 12 BS) at a top 10?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Chrome19 said:
Lol. I even feel crappier about my score. Just answering 2 to 4 more questions correctly could've put me at a 35-36. 👎

@LizzyM, my GPA (Bio major, math minor) is a 3.87 with a higher science GPA (3.95); does this help an MCAT score of 33 (9V, 12 PS, 12 BS) at a top 10?
Click to expand...

3.87(10) + 33 = 71.7. That would be on the low side for top 10. Even a 72.5 would be on the low side (below avg) for admissions to top 10 schools.

Numbers aren't the only thing. You can still be extraordinary in research, volunteerism, community leadership, etc.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
3.87(10) + 33 = 71.7. That would be on the low side for top 10. Even a 72.5 would be on the low side (below avg) for admissions to top 10 schools.

Numbers aren't the only thing. You can still be extraordinary in research, volunteerism, community leadership, etc.
Click to expand...

I have lots of research and I plan to make it a substantial part(>80%) of my career; and this segues to my next question. Why do adcoms play so much emphasis on research? A research career is HARD and challenging, and this difficulty explains why over 90% of physicians don't do research. Why is there even any emphasis on it when most med school grads won't even do it?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
You can still be extraordinary in research, volunteerism, community leadership, etc.
Click to expand...

Let's be honest here, an exceptionally strong application coupled with one low aspect (even one one low subsection of the MCAT) is a deal breaker. One could exhibit all the qualities you look for in an applicant through terrific ECs, but a low MCAT really makes you look at the applicant differently. It's only human nature. I know you can't speak for every individual adcom in the US, but what the very first thing you look at in an application. My guess would be the systemized number your committee uses (I would presume a system similar to LizzyM system). Yes, schools like Stanford create a very intricate numerical system looking at every aspect of the applicant (research, leadership, disabilities, etc.) but I am willing to bet my shirt that the very last thing you look at are ECs and letters. Even if the student has truly exceptional ECs you already have the perception (from the low MCAT) that this student is flawed. This has to diminish how you look at any other aspect of this candidate. I see no way around it unless certain adcoms are blinded to the numbers and just look at the ECs and life story. Interviews come from numbers, and unfortunately unless you are an URM all the national accolades, medals, and inherent dedication to medicine will do you no good. I think my elder sibling and (within the next several months) I are perfect examples of this. I'm not bitter or angry or anything like that, I just really feel that this is a fact of life. Humans, by their nature, look for flaws in people (heck I look for flaws in my own self). Once you see a flaw your WHOLE perception changes.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Not too long ago I recommended for interview a guy who had a < 3.0 gpa in undergrad. Did the same thing last year. Both interviewed really well, had amazing life stories (non-trad), excellent post-bacs, exceptional MCATs. Sure, there was a major flaw (the gpa) but we got past it.

On the other hand, there are >35,000 applicants for <19,000 spots (I'm estimating and hope I'm within a 10% margin of error on those numbers). Thousands go empty handed every year. Even if no URM in the country were admitted to any medical school, not even the historically black schools, and all those spots were given to the best non-URM applicants, there would be thousands of non-URM applicants on the sidelines at the end of the cycle.

Do you think there is room in major league baseball for someone who bats 0.122 and can't seem to throw with any accuracy but loves the game and has wanted to do nothing else since childhood? Even if he's played in HS and college and coached inner city kids and is well traveled and even played in Central America and donated used gloves to needy kids there....?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
A top 20.... this isn't to say that it is the school's official policy... but that some members of the adcom look at that as "low" compared with the dozens of applicants they see with 38+.

On the other hand, numbers are not everything.
Click to expand...

Proof positive that there is no objective standard when it comes to admissions.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
Do you think there is room in major league baseball for someone who bats 0.122 and can't seem to throw with any accuracy but loves the game and has wanted to do nothing else since childhood? Even if he's played in HS and college and coached inner city kids and is well traveled and even played in Central America and donated used gloves to needy kids there....?
Click to expand...

Crawl Crawford hit right around there this year and got paid handsomely (jk).

Yes, I do see your point.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LizzyM said:
Do you think there is room in major league baseball for someone who bats 0.122 and can't seem to throw with any accuracy but loves the game and has wanted to do nothing else since childhood? Even if he's played in HS and college and coached inner city kids and is well traveled and even played in Central America and donated used gloves to needy kids there....?
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I'm not sure that this is a fair comparison. The difference is that a major league baseball club is consumed with one and only one thing - building a ball club that can win a championship. I'm not sure that admissions committees are motivated by the same thing - admissions committees are motivated by several factors, only one of which is to train good physicians. There are plenty of other factors that go into those decisions and admissions officers are as biased as anyone else.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MD Odyssey said:
Respectfully, I'm not sure that this is a fair comparison. The difference is that a major league baseball club is consumed with one and only one thing - building a ball club that can win a championship. I'm not sure that admissions committees are motivated by the same thing - admissions committees are motivated by several factors, only one of which is to train good physicians. There are plenty of other factors that go into those decisions and admissions officers are as biased as anyone else.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion on the opinion of an adcom member. What school's admissions committee do you belong to? Oh wait...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
jdok said:
Thanks for your opinion on the opinion of an adcom member. What school's admissions committee do you belong to? Oh wait...
Click to expand...

Learn to draw conclusions from observations. Acknowledging that admissions committees have multiple motivations and biases isn't illegitimate.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
jdok said:
Thanks for your opinion on the opinion of an adcom member. What school's admissions committee do you belong to? Oh wait...
Click to expand...

Obviously, adcoms are flawless gods who work in mysterious yet perfect ways and whose judgement must not be questioned or commented on.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Remember, Lizzy's experiences are skewed because she is an adcom at a top 20, which is obviously going to attract the best scores out there. Going to a lesser ranked school will improve your chances because the pool is that much less intense.

Look at the numbers, about 60k people take the MCAT each year. Scoring in the top 1% puts you in with about 600 people.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MD Odyssey said:
Proof positive that there is no objective standard when it comes to admissions.
Click to expand...

Just as there is no objective standard when it comes to making some diagnoses. It requires judgment and there are times when biases based on past experiences come into play. There are quantifiable measures and there are qualitative measures. Teamwork, integrity, altruism are not measured by an exam and all go into decisions about admission.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hmmm..I see. So that means research is a backdoor to medicine. i know what I'm putting in my PS.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
MCAT Score and chances of admission
Replies
12
Views
3K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
P
Using Old MCAT Score?
Replies
7
Views
2K
LindaAccepted
LindaAccepted
P
  • Question Question
How to boost b/b and p/s MCAT score
Replies
5
Views
4K
ClashRoyaleKing
ClashRoyaleKing
I
MCAT Score Aim?
Replies
5
Views
2K
j_diggity
j_diggity
J
Planning to Void MCAT: Inconsistent Full-Length Scores Fix?
Replies
0
Views
2K
JAH_
J
Top