Minor IA? What to do?

[Chroma2504]

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I recently got contacted by the Dean about doing attendance for another student that was late to the class. I submitted their warm up sheet for them at the beginning of class since they were coming in late. I understand this is wrong but I feel like the professor took it way out of proportion by contacting the Dean. I am currently appealing it trying to not get this on my record but if the appeal fails then I will have to take a integrity seminar and this won't be on my public record, but it will be on my schools internal record just incase if I do something wrong again? How do I talk about this in my AMCAS application next year? Is this major? I am becoming a mentor next semester for new pre-med students, can this help me?

 

[purpledoc1]

I recently got contacted by the Dean about doing attendance for another student that was late to the class. I submitted their warm up sheet for them at the beginning of class since they were coming in late. I understand this is wrong but I feel like the professor took it way out of proportion by contacting the Dean. I am currently appealing it trying to not get this on my record but if the appeal fails then I will have to take a integrity seminar and this won't be on my public record, but it will be on my schools internal record just incase if I do something wrong again? How do I talk about this in my AMCAS application next year? Is this major? I am becoming a mentor next semester for new pre-med students, can this help me?

Report it; don't dodge the question. Take responsibility and say what you learned from it.
You will get out of mentoring what you put into it. I was a pre-med mentor and loved it. I still mentor students in my spare time occasionally. If you like teaching then this is for you.
Any questions feel free to PM me <3

 

[Hollow Knight]

Be completely transparent. Explain what you did, what you learned, and that it won’t happen again. Take full responsibility.

Look, i don’t think this is the same as if you cheated on a test or robbed a bank. But the bottom line is, you lied. And as a physician people are going to trust you with their lives. You will have ample opportunity as a doctor to do be ethically wrong thing for your own personal gain (be that money or time or prestige or etc).

This isn’t a deal breaker, but you need to own up to it and not be the type of person who is dishonest. How you do one thing is how you do everything.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The way AMCAS is worded you have to disclose it. Theoretically, if your school assures you that they won’t tell anyone, you might be able to get away without mentioning it, but if you failed to disclose and anyone found out your medical career would be 100% dead before it started.

Better to just own up to your mistake. It’s not that big of a deal.

 

[Goro]

I recently got contacted by the Dean about doing attendance for another student that was late to the class. I submitted their warm up sheet for them at the beginning of class since they were coming in late. I understand this is wrong but I feel like the professor took it way out of proportion by contacting the Dean. I am currently appealing it trying to not get this on my record but if the appeal fails then I will have to take a integrity seminar and this won't be on my public record, but it will be on my schools internal record just incase if I do something wrong again? How do I talk about this in my AMCAS application next year? Is this major? I am becoming a mentor next semester for new pre-med students, can this help me?

With the attitude that you have now, you're not going to get into Medical school.

You had better understand that you did something wrong that actually goes to a greater level than simply copying off your Lab Partner's notes when you were freshmen.

You knew you were doing something wrong. And now you're saying that the professor made a big deal out of it by complaining to the dean?

At my Medical School you'd get immediately hauled before the student promotions committee for this!

So for starters, you better own this transgression when you write about it on your applications.

We have no idea what your school's policies are. I suggest you read your student handbook. And do not f****** again.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I recently got contacted by the Dean about doing attendance for another student that was late to the class. I submitted their warm up sheet for them at the beginning of class since they were coming in late. I understand this is wrong but I feel like the professor took it way out of proportion by contacting the Dean. I am currently appealing it trying to not get this on my record but if the appeal fails then I will have to take a integrity seminar and this won't be on my public record, but it will be on my schools internal record just incase if I do something wrong again? How do I talk about this in my AMCAS application next year? Is this major? I am becoming a mentor next semester for new pre-med students, can this help me?

It is a violation of academic integrity. You may be well-intentioned, but spoofing someone else's identity is fraud. Have you ever had someone steal your password and hack your social media account, bank account, or grades?

You must report this, even if it's not on your disciplinary record, just as you have to report all courses you repeat.

This is something that upon discovery could remove you from becoming a "mentor" in the short term.

Student Leaders and Ambassadors: Bringing Out the Best | SDN

Applicants greatly rely on the perspective of peers who are a few years further along in their education when it comes to making decisions on a career

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[Chroma2504]

It is a violation of academic integrity. You may be well-intentioned, but spoofing someone else's identity is fraud. Have you ever had someone steal your password and hack your social media account, bank account, or grades?

You must report this, even if it's not on your disciplinary record, just as you have to report all courses you repeat.

This is something that upon discovery could remove you from becoming a "mentor" in the short term.

Student Leaders and Ambassadors: Bringing Out the Best | SDN

Applicants greatly rely on the perspective of peers who are a few years further along in their education when it comes to making decisions on a career

www.studentdoctor.net

I understand, should I bring this up in my personal statement or just in the explanation of my IA section?

 

[Chroma2504]

With the attitude that you have now, you're not going to get into Medical school.

You had better understand that you did something wrong that actually goes to a greater level than simply copying off your Lab Partner's notes when you were freshmen.

You knew you were doing something wrong. And now you're saying that the professor made a big deal out of it by complaining to the dean?

At my Medical School you'd get immediately hauled before the student promotions committee for this!

So for starters, you better own this transgression when you write about it on your applications.

We have no idea what your school's policies are. I suggest you read your student handbook. And do not f****** again.

You’re right, the only reason I said that the professor is taking this out of proportion is because she acknowledged to me that she knows other students are fooling the attendance and isn’t doing anything about it but caught me. I understand a policy is a policy and willing to learn from it. Should I talk about in my personal statement or jusy IA section?

 

[purpledoc1]

You’re right, the only reason I said that the professor is taking this out of proportion is because she acknowledged to me that she knows other students are fooling the attendance and isn’t doing anything about it but caught me. I understand a policy is a policy and willing to learn from it. Should I talk about in my personal statement or jusy IA section?

I wouldn't make your personal statement about this unless it is really meaningful to you. Try not to draw attention to a negative.

 

[Goro]

You’re right, the only reason I said that the professor is taking this out of proportion is because she acknowledged to me that she knows other students are fooling the attendance and isn’t doing anything about it but caught me. I understand a policy is a policy and willing to learn from it. Should I talk about in my personal statement or jusy IA section?

The IA section.

What year are you in your schooling?

 

[AJS59]

If there's a takeaway you should have from this it is don't ever do anything like this again. You can read many stories online (here or on reddit) of people doing similar activities in medical school and getting reamed for it. Professionalism and ethical behavior matters.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You’re right, the only reason I said that the professor is taking this out of proportion is because she acknowledged to me that she knows other students are fooling the attendance and isn’t doing anything about it but caught me. I understand a policy is a policy and willing to learn from it. Should I talk about in my personal statement or jusy IA section?

Have you ever gotten a speeding ticket? The rules are still the rules, except helping someone lie about their actual attendance has serious consequences later on.

It's no secret... we can't prosecute everyone for plagiarism either, even if we know every student is doing it. Which shouldn't make YOU feel any better. Live with honor and integrity, even if it makes you a square compared to others. You just hope it doesn't penalize you with your grades.

As stated, any prompt about your institutional actions on the primary and secondary applications.

 

[Chroma2504]

The IA section.

What year are you in your schooling?

Junior 1st semester

 

[Goro]

Junior 1st semester

Honestly, not good. You should know better by now.

There's a reason why my clinician colleagues take professionalism so seriously. They know from historic Norms that dishonest doctors start out by being dishonest students.

 

[Chroma2504]

Honestly, not good. You should know better by now.

There's a reason why my clinician colleagues take professionalism so seriously. They know from historic Norms that dishonest doctors start out by being dishonest students.

Yeah, I know i messed up. I thought since my classmate was still coming to class, even though they were late, it was a small favor. But in reality, it was not. The reason I am appealing this is because the professor still gives students points for attendance even if they don’t sign attendance but go up to her and tell her that I’m here, they still get points. My classmate and I didn’t know that and I wouldn’t have done it, if we knew.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yeah, I know i messed up. I thought since my classmate was still coming to class, even though they were late, it was a small favor. But in reality, it was not. The reason I am appealing this is because the professor still gives students points for attendance even if they don’t sign attendance but go up to her and tell her that I’m here, they still get points. My classmate and I didn’t know that and I wouldn’t have done it, if we knew.

You have the right to exercise appropriate due process, including appeals. However, you cannot compromise that you must report the IA when prompted during the application process. Of course, the professor probably needs to adhere more to their attendance policies on their syllabus, but that's even more the reason why you didn't need to take action.

 

[Chroma2504]

You have the right to exercise appropriate due process, including appeals. However, you cannot compromise that you must report the IA when prompted during the application process. Of course, the professor probably needs to adhere more to their attendance policies on their syllabus, but that's even more the reason why you didn't need to take action.

If this appeal gets approved and the case gets dismissed. Do I still need to talk about it in my app?

 

[purpledoc1]

If this appeal gets approved and the case gets dismissed. Do I still need to talk about it in my app?

If it's on your record then I would. You can choose to not report it but that may come back to bite you in the behind.
Find out from faculty/advisors exactly what is being recorded. That's how I would proceed.
You can also seek the advice of an attorney if you want to be extra sure. Some people do pro bono advice for stuff like this.
Best of luck to you.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

If this appeal gets approved and the case gets dismissed. Do I still need to talk about it in my app?

The safest thing to do is to report what happened and how it was resolved, including full expungement or the case being dismissed. It's safer to tell more than tell less. No one is going to chide you for reporting an expungement, especially if you have the documented confirmation and language from your student conduct office.

 

[Ellesandra319]

Honestly, not good. You should know better by now.

There's a reason why my clinician colleagues take professionalism so seriously. They know from historic Norms that dishonest doctors start out by being dishonest students.

for some perspective OP, here's an anecdote on why adcom's ride such a hardline on IA's:

in most DO programs, most students have to pass a standardized exam with a certain score before they're allowed to sit for COMLEX 1/Step 1. last summer, for a variety of unimportant reasons, it was found out that some folks in my class had access to the exact exam answers almost a full week before we sat for it. but the school had no way of proving which individuals cheated, so no one got held actionably accountable.

well, now almost 6 months later, some of those exact same people who supposedly score in the 99%-ile on that barrier exam have now failed COMLEX 2 times, and are on their final attempt before expulsion.

they may have gotten away with it at the time, but accountability comes for us all in one way or another. those students who cheated are now $200K in debt, with their careers in many ways irreparably and permanently harmed. all because they cheated on the barrier exam, consequently didn't realize how poorly prepared they were for COMLEX, and then sat for an exam that they weren't ready for.

i'm not saying what you did was close to this, and i'm not saying you would do this. but i am saying that taking academic integrity seriously in the admissions process is of course to protect patients first and foremost, but its also to protect students from getting in an even worse position in med school, where the stakes are 1000x higher.

run your due process, own your mistake, and never take integrity lightly ever again.

 

[wysdoc]

If this appeal gets approved and the case gets dismissed. Do I still need to talk about it in my app?

What happened to the dude/dudette you signed in for?

 

[GoSpursGo]

If this appeal gets approved and the case gets dismissed. Do I still need to talk about it in my app?

I tend to disagree with the advice to report regardless--if this is dismissed, then there is no "action" to report. Similarly, if your arch-enemy were to maliciously falsely report that you cheated on a test and that was eventually dismissed due to a lack of evidence, you wouldn't need to report something that wasn't true just because an investigation happened. Investigations can happen for any number of reasons that could be outside your control.

That said... if I were your dean I probably wouldn't dismiss this. You did what you are accused of doing, and the fact that other students do the same thing without getting caught is not a valid argument for why you should get let off the hook. If you do get off the hook, you should consider yourself very fortunate.

 

[Chroma2504]

What happened to the dude/dudette you signed in for?

Same sanction, 0 points on attendance.